Is Zen still any good?

People have been saying in recent months in the Zen forum that Zen's technical support, sale team and performance have been going downhill

And there's also some kind of issue with the Fritzbox they insist you use, which blocks some types of ping

So could people say here, whether Zen is still worth changing ISP to from EE, or whether it's better to look somewhere else like Plusnet, John Lewis or BT? (or maybe even KCOM?)

If I change from EE to Zen, am I definitely going to see a big improvement in reliability, download speed and ping times, as well as much better support?

And is Zen any good for gaming ping times to US servers? Or does the Fritzbox make gaming a bad experience, like random disconnects from game servers because their pings to you have been blocked?


Does Zen traffic manage or traffic shape anything? Including to game servers?


Is there an ISP that's good for gaming that offers a monthly contract?

Edited by deleted (Mon 12-Jul-21 12:35:45)

I use both http://f8lure.mouselike.org/ and TTB's BQM through my fritz box, but because of the way it drops pings I have it set to ping the IPv6 address of my NAS. If you have anything permanently on that has an IPv6 address that's the easy solution.

I also have an issue whereby the Android Freesat app can't find my Freesat box unless I connect a WAP and the box to the same hub/switch plugged in to a LAN port on the Fritz box.

Apart from those two issues I like the Fritz box more than any other router I've had and the service has been fine.

I don't do gaming so couldn't comment.

In reply to a post by zelly:

And there's also some kind of issue with the Fritzbox they insist you use, which blocks some types of ping

I have used Zen on FTTC for 5 years and their Fritzbox is still in the shipping box. Vigor 130 connected directly to my OPNSense firewall.

In reply to a post by zelly:

And is Zen any good for gaming ping times to US servers? Or does the Fritzbox make gaming a bad experience, like random disconnects from game servers because their pings to you have been blocked?

traceroute to speedtest.newark.linode.com (50.116.57.237), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 vt1.cor2.lond1.ptn.zen.net.uk (51.148.72.22) 8.984 ms 8.286 ms 15.019 ms
2 lag-9.p1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.160) 8.104 ms 8.122 ms
lag-9.p2.thn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.174) 8.187 ms
3 lag-2.br1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk (51.148.73.167) 8.104 ms 7.590 ms 7.883 ms
4 ldn-b3-link.ip.twelve99.net (213.248.84.100) 7.742 ms 8.453 ms 7.943 ms
5 ldn-bb1-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.120.74) 8.854 ms
ldn-bb4-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.122.180) 19.505 ms
ldn-bb1-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.120.74) 9.211 ms
6 nyk-bb2-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.113.20) 79.990 ms *
nyk-bb1-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.112.244) 92.319 ms
7 nyk-b2-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.137.99) 82.008 ms
ash-bb2-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.112.242) 93.963 ms
nyk-b2-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.115.145) 76.898 ms
8 linode-ic342729-nyk-b2.ip.twelve99-cust.net (62.115.172.131) 79.717 ms
nyk-bb2-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.136.200) 96.108 ms
linode-ic342729-nyk-b2.ip.twelve99-cust.net (62.115.172.131) 82.947 ms
9 if-3-6.router2-nac.linode.com (173.255.239.21) 78.029 ms * *
10 speedtest.newark.linode.com (50.116.57.237) 79.899 ms 78.345 ms 80.267 ms

In reply to a post by zelly:

Does Zen traffic manage or traffic shape anything? Including to game servers?

They say they don't and I've not experienced any packet management but my usage is different to what you want.

I've been with Zen for many years and I'd say that support (on the rare occasions I need it) varies from excellent to good. Even "good" is about a million times better than the script bunnies you get at BT.

As for "the Fritzbox they insist you use" I suggest you need to file that under Fairy Stories. I'm not a fan of the Fritzbox, I don't think it handles my 1500m line as well as the old HG612 so I'm currently using the Fritzbox behind the HG612. Over the years I have used Billion and ASUS kit with nary a Fritzbox in sight.

John

In reply to a post by jelv:

I use both http://f8lure.mouselike.org/ and TTB's BQM through my fritz box, but because of the way it drops pings I have it set to ping the IPv6 address of my NAS. If you have anything permanently on that has an IPv6 address that's the easy solution.

I also have an issue whereby the Android Freesat app can't find my Freesat box unless I connect a WAP and the box to the same hub/switch plugged in to a LAN port on the Fritz box.

Sorry for the newbie questions. If my computer is always on, will that have the static ip address they give us, or is that given to the Fritzbox itself?

Re tv boxes, are you saying the Fritz won't be able to stream internet tv wirelessly to a smart tv? I would have to connect a ethernet cable from the Fritz to the tv?

I edited my original post to add in a new question


Is there an ISP that's good for gaming that offers a monthly contract?

Your static IP address is the address your home network presents to the outside world. Your pc will have an address on YOUR network, probably 192.168.1.xxx. If you choose to allocate a fixed IP address to any devices on your network then they will always have that IP address. In practice, even if you don't do that, they'll almost certainly have the same IP address as there is a lease timeout value, generally 24 hours, but under your control to some degree. In other words, nothing to worry about.

The Fritzbox can (and does, without effort on your part) stream IP tv to your smart tv. Nothing to worry about.

John

The PC will have an IPv4 address on your LAN and will use NAT when accessing anything on the internet. To make your PC accessible via IPv4 from outside you'd need to set up port forwarding via the fixed IP given to you by Zen you'd need to set up port forwarding on the router as without that the fixed IP is for the router only.

If you have IPv6 enabled by Zen (available free on request) your router, PC, phones and anything else you connect to your router will all have unique IPv6 addresses (providing they are IPv6 capable).

My issue with the Freesat box was just that the app can't be used as a more capable remote control for the box as I used to do with previous routers, nothing to do with streaming.

The OP hasn't said that he wants to access his pc when away from home so why frighten him (again) with an answer that is complicated and not relevant?

John

The original post raised the known issue of the Fritz box not responding to pings in a way that can be used by something like the BQM. I pointed out that using IPv6 something permanently on could be used. The OP then asked about about whether the static IP allocated by the ISP could be used for his always on PC. I made the reasonable assumption that was in relation to my previous reply about using IPv6 to ping something always on. He didn't appear to grasp the difference between IPv4 where from the outside you have a single IP address and IPv6 where every device (including the router) has a unique address and attempted to clarify.

So totally relevant!

I don't know what other ISPs do, but on AAISP the router IPv6 public address is static, and not related in any way to the user's /48 or pre-allocated /64 within that. "2001:8b0:1111:1111:0:ffff:[your IPv4 WAN in HEX]".

They then route IPv6 traffic for the /64, or any others you set up in the correct way, to that WAN address.

That WAN address is pingable as long as your router is set to respond.

Zen are a good ISP in my experience. I like their network and I know they have invested heavily in it. I can't say for sure but it seems like their new Huawei based network employs some great traffic queuing algos, helping keep stuff flowing without shaping or filtering.

My only complaints are that 1. They switched my backhaul from BT to TTwithout letting me know, and 2. Their service is not as personal as it used to be. E.g. emails on the same subject don't get allocated to the same service technician. This can also be a positive as some are much better than others.

My line has an intermittent problem which causes the speed to drop. They reset the DLM everytime without quibble but aren't super proactive about diagnosing and fixing the underlying issue. To be fair, I haven't really pushed them to yet as am still ruling out changes at my end.

If your line is reliable and you don't mind being with an upper end of mass market rather than a truly boutique provider, you can't do better.

That is probably going way beyond the OP's questions!

You may not be aware but the Fritz box Zen currently supply sees repeated pings as some sort of attack and after a while throws a hissy fit and stops responding to the pings which is why we have to resort to pinging devices inside the LAN.

I don't want to argue with you j, you're trying to help but I get the distinct impression from the OPs replies that you're confusing him. Some of the questions appear naiive whereas your replies are quite techinical and not always appropriate - the smart tv reply was somowhat niche. As you say "I made the reasonable assumption".There's nothing wrong with an assumption so long as you say what it is, if you don't then only you know what it is. If you were to say "assuming that you are trying to access your pc remotely then..." or "assuming you want to control your tv with an Android app then..." then we'd all know what you're assuming and there'd be nothing to quibble about. As it is I think you're confusing the OP, you think you're not. There's room for doubt.

John

Two points - Zen DON'T insist you use the Fritz!box and in any case there is nothing whatsoever wrong with it OR the ISP.

I was aware of that, but if you re-read the OP the main questions were somewhat wider than the Fritz box. It read to me as if that was the least important.

My post also raised the question of how the IPv6 addresses are allocated in the first place, covering this question and in effect asking others to say what other ISPs including Zen do.

In reply to a post by zelly:

Sorry for the newbie questions. If my computer is always on, will that have the static ip address they give us, or is that given to the Fritzbox itself?

AIUI the OP is wondering whether to use the Fritz box or some other if they move to Zen.

In reply to a post by chrisjam:

They switched my backhaul from BT to TTwithout letting me know ...

When they switched me between those backhauls (years ago) they actually sent me a "Sorry you've decided to leave" letter. I was pretty alarmed!

Well they didn't do that this time, but I happened to do a check on the BT availability checker and it said that my line had a termination order on it. This was right at the start of covid when we were working from home. I wasn't super confident but it was all fine. The TT backhaul has a tiny bit more latency but only by a millisecond or so. Still, it would have been nice for them to send me a note to say they were making changes.

In reply to a post by chrisjam:

The TT backhaul has a tiny bit more latency but only by a millisecond or so. Still, it would have been nice for them to send me a note to say they were making changes.

Funnily enough I was just writing here about my similar experience moving FTTP service over to TTB with their backhaul from a BTW backhaul. About a 1 to 2ms difference in latency. Not that it really matters in real world - unless your extreme gaming or running some massively sensitive algorithmic trading platform 🤣