Which ISP to move to?

Currently with John Lewis Broadband which has now doubled in price because I've come to the end of the minimum term so I need find a new ISP.

I can only get FTTC and FTTP is not planned from openreach.

I received a letter back in January from Community Fibre saying they were 'coming soon' but now its November and entering my address on their website still states the same thing I've tried to contact them to understand when but haven't got a response.

Requirements:
- 50 Mbps speed as line normally gets around 55 Mbps
- Evening and weekend calls bundle on the landline
- Support for own router
- Ideally 12 month (or 1 month) contract but would consider 18 months at a stretch (don't want to tie up for too long - hoping that CF becomes available soon)

Any suggestions who to go with? On the comparison websites it appears that NOW broadband is the only option that provides a 12 month contract now. I guess I could go with Plusnet/Shell on an 18 month contract but the likes of BT want a 24 month contact.

It would help if you tell us how much you were paying and the new JL price.

For instance you've just missed the Sky £23 offer, though I don't know what the minimum term was for that. Now £28 for 18 months.

It was £24 pm including the E&W calls, gone up to £52 pm now.

Do Sky support all own routers now?

John Lewis Broadband is closing down, it is actually supplied by Plusnet so you have the option of moving to them. Have you not been informed of this closure?

You should be able to get a similar price to your old JL service.

In reply to a post by ss_4:

Do Sky support all own routers now?

No idea sorry.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

John Lewis Broadband is closing down, it is actually supplied by Plusnet so you have the option of moving to them. Have you not been informed of this closure?

You should be able to get a similar price to your old JL service.

Yes I'm aware its run by plusnet, and was informed by them.

It's not really the price that's the issue - I know I can switch to get a much lower new customer price - its the contract length. Is there anyway to find out if when (if?) community fibre plan to go live? I don't want to commit to 18/24 months if its soon but the out of contract prices are so expensive.

There is always the well-regarded on these forums pulse8broadband. Monthly rolling contract so not held in at all really.

I nearly suggested it earlier, which is why I asked about the price area you were in.

If over 50Mbps isn't essential you could even go for the cheapest one.

It runs on TalkTalk Business Wholesale, which is a totally different kettle of fish from the TT Retail service.

Comparison sites like comparethemarket or MoneySuperMarket let you specify a contract length as one of the filters so you can search the market for 1-month rolling contracts or 12-month fixed term. MoneySuperMarket tells me that Now are offering a Cyber Monday deal of £20 per month plus £65 set up broadband only on a 1-month rolling contract.

Once you've sussed out likely suppliers, worthwhile ringing them to try and get a broadband and phone package.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

There is always the well-regarded on these forums pulse8broadband. Monthly rolling contract so not held in at all really.

A good suggestion - OP may have to get a replacement modem/router though, which he might only need for a few months?

From their FAQs:

Can I use my existing router / modem with your service?

You can use any router with our service as long as it is NOT locked down to a specific service provider. As a rule routers from Sky, BT & PlusNet are not compatible as they are locked down, so please contact us if you are un-sure and we'll check for you.

OP:

Requirements:
- 50 Mbps speed as line normally gets around 55 Mbps
- Evening and weekend calls bundle on the landline
- Support for own router
....

OP needs to check out the call charges though. They used to be very low within the UK. I used them for my landline for a few years until I ditched it completely, and a friend still does. (He doesn't have broadband except on his mobile).

Hopefully the OP's current router will be suitable, if not something inexpensive should be fine until he is able to get "full fibre" and reassess the voice/broadband situation.

In the interim call charges shouldn't be too bad unless up to one hour calls are frequently made.

In reply to a post by ss_4:

Do Sky support all own routers now?

If its FTTC (or later on FTTP when that becomes available) - get a box that supports DHCP option 61 on its WAN interface.

Thanks for the pulse 8 recommendation - not seen it on the comparison sites, my router should be fine, I have an old openreach VDSL modem to pair with it.

Is there any way of finding out when community fibre may be available? The letter through the door in January was 11 months back and it said 'coming soon', which is what the website still says.

I wouldn't mind a 12 month contract, its the 18/24 month contracts that look to be the norm now that seem too long.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by ss_4:

Do Sky support all own routers now?

If its FTTC (or later on FTTP when that becomes available) - get a box that supports DHCP option 61 on its WAN interface.

I looked at Sky/Now a few years back and checked that my router doesn't support DHCP option 61, so still can't use them without a new box it seems.

Comparison sites (not just broadband ones) only compare providers that pay them for users clicking through to their website. Pulse8broadband is a quite small provider but has been around for many years. (Not to be confused with other companies starting with "Pulse8").

Fair point so always wise to check more than one of the comparison sites in case there are any providers who have fallen out with one particular portal. Still leaves the gap for those providers who feel that the comparison sites are parasites on the back of commercial processes and don't want to pay the surcharge for the chance to get a new customer.

From the other side of the table any potential customer has to balance the time spent on research against the potential cost saving which is why it is all so very difficult.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

There is always the well-regarded on these forums pulse8broadband. Monthly rolling contract so not held in at all really.

I nearly suggested it earlier, which is why I asked about the price area you were in.

If over 50Mbps isn't essential you could even go for the cheapest one.

It runs on TalkTalk Business Wholesale, which is a totally different kettle of fish from the TT Retail service.

Possibly not relevant, but perhaps for future PSTN reference, I have just noticed that some providers change a costly transfer from a TalkTalk line rental account to a another provider's WLR (BT based) line rental account, e.g. considered a new install costing £72 according to a well respected small provider

That's true. However the OP's target is Community Fibre. They claim "Free setup". My initial impression just now is that a phone service costs an extra £10 and is VOIP.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Possibly not relevant, but perhaps for future PSTN reference, I have just noticed that some providers change a costly transfer from a TalkTalk line rental account to a another provider's WLR (BT based) line rental account, e.g. considered a new install costing £72 according to a well respected small provider

Probably the cost the network provider (e.g. Openreach) charges them to pick up a TT service and bring it across to OR so that any ISP using BTwholesale can interface. (I would have thought similar bringing over a Sky line).

In reply to a post by pluralist:

My initial impression just now is that a phone service costs an extra £10 and is VOIP.

I suspect most alternate networks (like CF) assume not many people will order a VoIP phone. They have to offer it, and doubt they will provide stats, but my feeling is for people 55 and under, the "landline" or "fake landline" is dead.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Probably the cost the network provider (e.g. Openreach) charges them to pick up a TT service and bring it across to OR so that any ISP using BTwholesale can interface. (I would have thought similar bringing over a Sky line).

Yes, from the Aquiss web site: "Free telephone line transfers only apply to BT based phone lines. Transferring from TalkTalk, Sky, Virgin Media (using non BT Lines) will be considered a New Install, at the prices shown above." i.e. £72 (inc. VAT)

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Hopefully the OP's current router will be suitable, if not something inexpensive should be fine until he is able to get "full fibre" and reassess the voice/broadband situation.

In the interim call charges shouldn't be too bad unless up to one hour calls are frequently made.

It could be relevant on Community Fibre as the OP is currently on included E & W calls.

On Pulse8Broadband the UK landline calls are as they were when I had phone there. With my broadband Plusnet then AAISP. 1ppm daytime, 0.8ppm evenings and weekends. No 60 minute rule and calls are charged by the second, not whole minutes. That allows an awful lot of talking for the cost of E & W.

From their FAQs:

All 03 dialling codes are charged the same as 01 & 02 numbers on our fixed Local/National rate. Day = 1p/min (0.84p + V.A.T) Eve = 0.8p/min (0.67p + V.A.T.)
...
There is No charge for the 1471 service.
...
Calls made to 084, 087, 09 and 118 are subject to two charges - an access charge and a service charge.

Incidentally there does seem to be some connection with Pulse8.co.uk, but not actual ownership by them. At a guess the boss man of Pulse8broadband used to work for them. Delving deeper all their phone services look to be using Pulse8 as a wholesale provider with no profit markup. Again, in the FAQs, including links. I don't think it's really relevant as the user's contract is with Pulse8broadband.

Even 8p per minute for 24/7 calls to UK mobiles isn't too bad

In reply to a post by ss_4:

I looked at Sky/Now a few years back and checked that my router doesn't support DHCP option 61, so still can't use them without a new box it seems.

The majority of Sky's network doesn't require DHCP Option 61.

Enabling DHCPv6 PD (prefix delegation) is enough on around 80% of lines. The IPV4 address piggybacks over the IPV6 connection.

It's only the remaining 20% of lines that require DHCP Option 61. This is apparently due to a limitation on some of Openreach's equipment.

It might also be the case that the Option 61 requirement only effects FTTC lines though I'm not certain on that.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 02-Dec-22 13:45:45)

The alt nets dont help themselves when their checkers say "soon" when in reality it could be a couple of years

Plusnet is an obvious budget choice and given you was with john lewis you will be on the same network I assume as they resold Plusnet I think.

Yes, JLB is basically plusnet already. I wouldn't mind staying with them but they seem to want a 18 month contract.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Probably the cost the network provider (e.g. Openreach) charges them to pick up a TT service and bring it across to OR so that any ISP using BTwholesale can interface. (I would have thought similar bringing over a Sky line).

Yes, from the Aquiss web site: "Free telephone line transfers only apply to BT based phone lines. Transferring from TalkTalk, Sky, Virgin Media (using non BT Lines) will be considered a New Install, at the prices shown above." i.e. £72 (inc. VAT)

I've transfered between Sky/BT/Virgin Media/Plusnet/John Lewis on the phone line in recent years and never had to pay a charge, can you elborate on what this means?

In reply to a post by ss_4:

I've transfered between Sky/BT/Virgin Media/Plusnet/John Lewis on the phone line in recent years and never had to pay a charge, can you elborate on what this means?

Generally seen, perhaps when an ISP does not absorb the Openreach charge, when transferring from LLU to BTw - another example is uno who charge £50 when coming from MPF (LLU) i.e. convert a TalkTalk or Sky line. However uno no longer do standalone BTw line rental, for line rental one must have broadband on the same account with them also.

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 02-Dec-22 23:09:47)

In reply to a post by ss_4:

Is there anyway to find out if when (if?) community fibre plan to go live?

The short answer is: no. For all fibre providers, the rule is: it's available to order when it's available to order.

Before that there are no guarantees at all, regardless of what the provider may or may not say. Plans change all the time; unexpected problems arise all the time. Sometimes, entire areas are abandoned mid-way through construction.

People understandably get upset when they're told that fibre will be arriving in a given time but it doesn't happen. As a result, most providers don't announce specifics any more; and those that do, are usually proved wrong.

Look at the cost of an 18-month contract with Plusnet, and compare that with what you would pay for a monthly rolling service over 6, 12 or 18 months. Then you roll the dice. Remember that even if CF were available to order tomorrow, it might still take a month or two to get an installation appointment; and you might want to run in parallel for a month or two to prove the new service.

Incidentally, if you want to keep your phone number, parallel running is the best way. Once the new fibre service is live and you're happy with it, you can transfer for your number to a VOIP provider. The transfer of the number will automatically cancel the copper broadband and phone line. (*Don't* give notice of termination directly to your old provider).

In reply to a post by candlerb:

...you might want to run in parallel for a month or two to prove the new service.

Incidentally, if you want to keep your phone number, parallel running is the best way. Once the new fibre service is live and you're happy with it, you can transfer for your number to a VOIP provider. The transfer of the number will automatically cancel the copper broadband and phone line. (*Don't* give notice of termination directly to your old provider).

Excellent advice, although it is possible to have a FTTP broadband only service installed/activated, then later cease xDSL but retain PSTN voice over copper for a while in some circumstances. Importantly, as you say, ceasing voice over a copper line would probably also cease broadband on that line also.

Thanks all, some really good advice on here. In the end, I've gone with Cuckoo FTTC on a 12 month contact, they seem to have good feedback and really low call rates. They also allow early release from the contract for £60 rather than paying off the remaining term and I'm happy to support a provider that doesn't have mandatory CPI/RPI linked price rises baked in.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Excellent advice, although it is possible to have a FTTP broadband only service installed/activated, then later cease xDSL but retain PSTN voice over copper for a while in some circumstances.

Good point, although I tend to discount that option since it costs almost as much as the original xDSL+WLR service.

OP has apparently migrated his broadband and voice services to a Cuckoo FTTC 12 month contract - if he was to cease just the broadband (i.e. switch to FTTP broadband only during that contract period) I wonder if that would automatically terminate the voice service together with a possible loss of phone number also?

If/when FTTP becomes available I'll probably parallel run the FTTP broadband only alongside the FTTC broadband/phone line for couple of months as candlerb states. Then move the phone number to a VOIP provider and finally cancelling the FTTC.

Yes that's a good plan especially if FTTP eventually becomes available near the end of your contract with Cuckoo