Firefox 4 available

From http://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-4.0&os=...

Maybe a link to the download page rather than a direct link to an exe?

https://www.mozilla.com/en-GB/products/download.html...

Just been looking at the features and the first thing I see is that they have moved the tabs above the address bar. Why do technology companies insist on changing things for change's sake? You get used to a system, and it works well, so why change it? As bad as Microsoft and Office 2007. Sigh.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

Just been looking at the features and the first thing I see is that they have moved the tabs above the address bar.

I've only just noticed that Opera is arranged like that by default (on the Mac version anyway). Makes sense to me- everything that belongs to the tab is inside the tab.

The defaults may have changed, that doesn't mean that any configuration settings you have will be changed.

Thanks for the link. Just started using selecting black and grey theme and when I opened it a third time it was pink. Had to switch themes default and back again. This is the final release?

Flippin eck its fast on XP. Had to move the home button back to its original place though on the left.

Edited by Banger (Tue 22-Mar-11 02:16:49)

Market research, and opinion panels. If it's wanted, they'll do it, but when it comes to doing the next batch of research it might end up moving back.

Edited by deleted (Tue 22-Mar-11 02:11:34)

In reply to a post by camieabz:

Just been looking at the features and the first thing I see is that they have moved the tabs above the address bar. Why do technology companies insist on changing things for change's sake? You get used to a system, and it works well, so why change it? As bad as Microsoft and Office 2007. Sigh.

you beat me to it.

Just had a look at this here.

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/RC/features/#fe...

So they done the same as IE9, ripped the gui apart, redesigned it and making things need more clicks because of so called clutter? Unless people are still using 640x480 res the interface is hardly clutter.

Seems I wont be upgrading firefox or IE now.

I switch between tabs and as such probably use the tab bar about 10-20 times more often than the address bar.

If I do need to visit a new site not in a tab I usually go to it via google so as such not using the address bar again.

Why would I want the address bar below the tabs?

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 22-Mar-11 04:49:05)

You can just turn off the 'Tabs On Top' option in the menu, and it puts them back to where they have always been, you can also put the old style text menu's back as well so it basically looks like it always did.

The point is, what benefit is there to having the tabs higher than the address bar? Many new pages are opened without using the address bar. Some new pages require the address bar. Few pages require manual input to the address bat in comparison.

The default option should be the most simple option for browsing.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

The default option should be the most simple option for browsing.

But isn't that subjective!?... personally I find this layout more intuative, it just seems to make more sense to me.

Considering both MS and Mozilla have done it with their new browsers, Google's Chrome is already that way, and so is Opera... to name but a few.

I'm pretty sure they'll have done some research into the ergonomics and usability of their browsers, and found that this layout is actually more productive for more people...

In reply to a post by swampster:

Considering both MS and Mozilla have done it with their new browsers, Google's Chrome is already that way, and so is Opera... to name but a few.

Generally, I don't consider the others as I am using FF. Ask Linux and MAC users to consider Windows or PC users when making their decisions . I was an IE user for many many years, and quite liked IE8. The Beta of IE9 had me moving quickly away.

I think of the ergonomics this way. The viewing and general clicking area is the most used part of the browser. The tabs are next-most used, then the address bar. Why put a less-used function between two more-used functions, if you get my meaning.

http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2010/06/24/why-tabs-...

If you can get your head past the 'way too much coffee' pace of speech in the video, it gives some insights as to why they did it...

That aside, it's all a fairly moot topic considering you can turn the tabs on top off.. thereby giving everybody a choice.

What's wrong with tabs on top as an option, rather than the default?

My web browser is better than your web browser. Does this sound a similar argument form the past?

It does not matter which web browser anyone else uses. My web browser is definitely set up the best, no argument.

In reply to a post by swampster:

You can just turn off the 'Tabs On Top' option in the menu, and it puts them back to where they have always been, you can also put the old style text menu's back as well so it basically looks like it always did.

which is more than you can do with other browsers. Just a shame that Firefox is getting slower not faster and it is getting less reliable.
i used to think Firefox was the best browser, but Mozilla have lost the plot.

In reply to a post by swampster:

I'm pretty sure they'll have done some research into the ergonomics and usability of their browsers, and found that this layout is actually more productive for more people...

Nah, they just copy each other like fashion designers, this years 'look' is
"Tabs on Top"...., me I just wear jeans
Regards,
Martin

Just downloaded the setup today and it's 12mb it was 11.8mb on that link batboy suspect that was the RC.

In reply to a post by Banger:

Just downloaded the setup today and it's 12mb

From where?

Nevermind US version is 12 British is 11.8 my mistake.

I would I make the text and the page bigger? It's easy on IE.

Huh?

In reply to a post by swampster:

You can just turn off the 'Tabs On Top' option in the menu, and it puts them back to where they have always been, you can also put the old style text menu's back as well so it basically looks like it always did.

fair enough if can be reverted, cannot do that in IE, so maybe I jumped the gun a bit, thanks.

In reply to a post by swampster:

In reply to a post by camieabz:

The default option should be the most simple option for browsing.

But isn't that subjective!?... personally I find this layout more intuative, it just seems to make more sense to me.

Considering both MS and Mozilla have done it with their new browsers, Google's Chrome is already that way, and so is Opera... to name but a few.

I'm pretty sure they'll have done some research into the ergonomics and usability of their browsers, and found that this layout is actually more productive for more people...

my suggestion would be one of them did it, and then the other 2 copied for the sake of it.

Think of it like this. Do most people load up a new website by typing in manually in address bar? my guess is no but I may be wrong. Generally it will either be.

1 - preloaded in tab from last session.
2 - loaded from search engine eg. google.
3 - loaded from favourites list.

The mouse pointer is most likely to be at bottom or middle of screen somewhere, rather than the top so when wanting to change tabs you want that lower down on the screen not at the top, so less to move the mouse. Not to mention is what people are used to.

Regarding the menus, a similiar principle.

The new design shows an empty space to the right of the new button they made, so basically all they have achieved is making a new empty space on the window frame where menu's could have been kept. So instead of eg. having bookmarks have its own menu, one now has to select the main menu, move the mouse down to sub menu, and then navigate from there, obviously if move down too much or not enough its easy to lose the submenu by accident and is a more fiddly and longer process, less productive. For the sake of having so called less clutter. This is my main gripe with these new browsers, they have gone for visual over function.

But at least firefox left the option to be old school which is very important.

Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 23-Mar-11 20:30:08)

In reply to a post by greyposter:

I would I make the text and the page bigger? It's easy on IE.

How do you do it on IE ?

Click on bottom right percentage sign.

http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Text%20Zoom#w_ho...

Cheers mate,you are a star.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

Just been looking at the features and the first thing I see is that they have moved the tabs above the address bar. Why do technology companies insist on changing things for change's sake? You get used to a system, and it works well, so why change it? As bad as Microsoft and Office 2007. Sigh.

If you switch off the menu bar and put the tabs on top, you get more web page real estate.

There is another change - the padlock has gone and is replaced with a coloured Site Identity Button in the Location bar to the left of the web address. https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Site%20Identity...
I only noticed when placing an order so switched to IE which had it then had a dig around

I'm running it - I've always preferred FF to IE, but I'm still tweaking to get it just how I like it

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by camieabz:

Just been looking at the features and the first thing I see is that they have moved the tabs above the address bar. Why do technology companies insist on changing things for change's sake? You get used to a system, and it works well, so why change it? As bad as Microsoft and Office 2007. Sigh.

If you switch off the menu bar and put the tabs on top, you get more web page real estate.

moving the tabs would give no exra space its just a cosmetic change.

I have just measured my screen and the size of the menu bar on it. If removed I gain a whopping 2% space in height. Wow, so I gain 2% for loss of productivity. My screen res is 1680x1050.

To get use of the menu bar for the few times you need it is a simple press of the Alt key away.

In reply to a post by gomezz:

To get use of the menu bar for the few times you need it is a simple press of the Alt key away.

I dont often use shortcut keys and use the menu bar 20+ times a day in firefox easily.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

In reply to a post by gomezz:

To get use of the menu bar for the few times you need it is a simple press of the Alt key away.

I dont often use shortcut keys and use the menu bar 20+ times a day in firefox easily.

What do you use it for?

bookmarks, history, options, configuration. I dont care if there is alternate ways, thats what I use it for. All irrelevant really as I already said there is barely any gain in space by disabling the menu, so its a pointless exercise removing it anyway. Even on a 640x480 screen it wont even be much. Incidently there is a full screen button that serves the same purpose.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

bookmarks, history, options, configuration. I dont care if there is alternate ways, thats what I use it for. All irrelevant really as I already said there is barely any gain in space by disabling the menu, so its a pointless exercise removing it anyway. Even on a 640x480 screen it wont even be much. Incidently there is a full screen button that serves the same purpose.

Bookmarks appear on the bookmarks toolbar when the menu bar is removed. The full screen button doesn't remove the menu bar

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Text%20Zoom#w_ho...

That is the wrong way to do it. It'll ruin layout on most pages.

Use something like nosquint and change the page defaults from there.

If the stupid new addon bar annoys anyone, there is barlesque.

In reply to a post by 12eason:

If the stupid new addon bar annoys anyone, there is barlesque.

Do you know how to fix the PgUp/PgDn problem?

What problem?

There seems to be an issue/bug with FF4 when using the Verifiied by Visa process to add funds to my online National Lottery account, it worked OK with FF3 and still works OK with IE8.

PgUp/Dn act like Back/Forward buttons instead of paging up/down

http://support.mozilla.com/hy-AM/questions/795565

Use something like autohotkey to assign alt-left/right arrow to the page up/down buttons. It would probably only be a couple of lines of js as an addon, but I cba.

Hmm, restarting FF appears to fix it. Must be something breaking it, Acrobat is the usual suspect...

Post deleted by billford

Maybe you're right

Don't push it.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

bookmarks, history, options, configuration. I dont care if there is alternate ways, thats what I use it for. All irrelevant really as I already said there is barely any gain in space by disabling the menu, so its a pointless exercise removing it anyway. Even on a 640x480 screen it wont even be much. Incidently there is a full screen button that serves the same purpose.

Bookmarks appear on the bookmarks toolbar when the menu bar is removed. The full screen button doesn't remove the menu bar

yeah it instead removes the bigger bar's, there is next to no point in removing the menu bar as it is tiny.

--edit--

just tried it, the menu bar is gone actually, it just leaves a tiny edge of bar at top which moves down when mouse is moved up there and that has no menu bar on it just tabs. The taskbar is also hidden. The menu bar is the smallest bar in the interface, smaller than the status bar.

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 29-Mar-11 19:01:32)

whinge whinge whinge

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/firef...

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

PgUp/Dn act like Back/Forward buttons instead of paging up/down

http://support.mozilla.com/hy-AM/questions/795565

Works OK for me

Yes, it works for me too sometimes. But something breaks it, I don't know what.

Mozilla lost the plot ages ago, and Firefox 4 is still slow to start up and respond even on a powerful machine.

Until they sort that out I will stay with a chrome clone.

You probably have a bodged profile or something. I have a ff4 set up with multiple panorama thingies, 30 odd open pages, 12 addons etc and it is still as fast as chrome loading. Changing the about:config setting browser.sessionstore.max_concurrent_tabs to 0 helps a lot.

or maybe bugs like this, incidently this bug is now over 2 years old and still not fixed. It took nearly a year to even get the dev's to even accept it was a bug.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=490122

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 31-Mar-11 23:49:58)

Maybe you should pay someone to fix it?

In reply to a post by 12eason:

Maybe you should pay someone to fix it?

funny enough I offered.

I have 2 Problems with Firefox 4.

First off the Quicktime Plugin doesnt work and crashes out.

Secondly Some Youtube videos refuse to play. You are on the youtube site and click play and get a message that the video has embedding disabled and click to view on youtube and u click the link and opens exact same page you are on.

That's a youtube problem I thought, not specific to a browser.

In reply to a post by 12eason:

You probably have a bodged profile or something. I have a ff4 set up with multiple panorama thingies, 30 odd open pages, 12 addons etc and it is still as fast as chrome loading. Changing the about:config setting browser.sessionstore.max_concurrent_tabs to 0 helps a lot.

Nope, even installed it on a clean machine and still took ages to open. works okish on Linux. I should not have to muck around to use a browser.
They lost me as a user and I been using Firefox for years, even before it became firefox

Edited by zyborg47 (Fri 01-Apr-11 16:53:10)

Sort of relevant.

After seeing this I un-installed FlashGot.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/performance/