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Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Fri 16-Sep-11 10:14:26
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Re: Windows 8


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
In reply to a post by camieabz:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14915748

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I

Not bad. Where's the productivity though?


microsoft is losing it, its all about cosmetics, But also they seem to be over concentrating on the mobile market.

The sad thing is all tech sites reviewing this are up it like its the next coming, any change anything new is alway sbetter the attitude they have, so microsoft will suck that up and take it as we all want this.
I disagree. I've had a decent smartphone for the last six months (HTC Desire) that has finally opened me up to the mobile world. I can finally see the attraction of a decent tablet and I think the old desktop+mouse+screen combo is going to die out. Or at least be restricted to technical software developers like me and we are a shrinking minority.

So I think Microsoft have the right idea here and the Youtube presentation encouraged me. I'm looking forward to the next version of Windows with more personal interest than I have of any OS since Windows XP.

The only thing that still concerns me a little is sub-pixel addressing (ie;Cleartype and its ilk). My eyes/brain simply cannot handle this technology. This new UI is obviously why MS have been pushing for it but if it can't be disabled then that make genuinely exclude me from 'the revolution' :-/

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile

Edited by Andrue (Fri 16-Sep-11 10:16:19)

Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Fri 16-Sep-11 10:23:28
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Re: Windows 8


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
No start menu so I have been told, how can they do away with the start menu? Stupid idea, so every time you want to launch a different bit of software you got to go to the silly touch style interface, which is going to be a pain on non-touch devices.
Why? Your mouse will still work. The only gestures that can't be done with a mouse are those that require two inputs (eg;zooming).
I am not going to get used to it as I will not be using it.
And scream and scream and stamp your foot until you make yourself sick, right?

Sheesh. Get over it. I've been using computers since the Sinclair Spectrum and yes, change, can be irritating but you adapt. I've often thought that Windows would benefit from a large 'app selection' screen. Navigating a start menu is not convenient. Putting your most used icons on the desktop is an improvement - except at present getting back to a clear desktop to select something is problematic. Sure there's a hot key but the whole 'minimise/maximise' process is klunky.

So stop being a Luddite. Give it a fair chance when it becomes available.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Fri 16-Sep-11 10:36:14
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Re: Windows 8


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I only accepted windows 7 when I discovered I could bring back quick launch and use an app to change behaviour of the taskbar.
Similar solutions may well be available for Win 8.
To me a phone is to make calls
Each to their own smile

Calling and texting are the least likely thing I do with my smartphone. Partly that's because I just don't do either very much anyway smile

I like my smartphone not for one single feature but because it's small enough and powerful to always have it with me.

*I take photos with it. It's only 5MP but it's good enough for most pictures I want to take. It'll even take passable videos.
*It has over 150 music albums on it.
*I can access the web. I don't do that often because the screen isn't really up to lengthy use but the convenience of having the WWW in my pocket is nice.
*I can read and reply to email no matter where I am without having to lug a laptop around. On holiday that's great. I can of course send pictures to people while on holiday. In fact I don't bother using USB to transfer pictures to my server I just email them to myself.
*It has GPS plus a navigator. I don't tend to rely on navigators but I was on holiday in Scotland a couple of weeks ago and it's great to be able to bring up a satellite view if you're a little unsure where you need to go when out walking.
*I have the complete Sherlock Holmes series on there. Got 'em in hardcopy at home as well but they are great for a ten minute read while waiting for someone. Got another four or five books on there as well.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile


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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Fri 16-Sep-11 12:21:48
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Re: Windows 8


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
*I take photos with it. It's only 5MP but it's good enough for most pictures I want to take. It'll even take passable videos.
*It has over 150 music albums on it.
*I can access the web. I don't do that often because the screen isn't really up to lengthy use but the convenience of having the WWW in my pocket is nice.
*I can read and reply to email no matter where I am without having to lug a laptop around. On holiday that's great. I can of course send pictures to people while on holiday. In fact I don't bother using USB to transfer pictures to my server I just email them to myself.
*It has GPS plus a navigator. I don't tend to rely on navigators but I was on holiday in Scotland a couple of weeks ago and it's great to be able to bring up a satellite view if you're a little unsure where you need to go when out walking.
*I have the complete Sherlock Holmes series on there. Got 'em in hardcopy at home as well but they are great for a ten minute read while waiting for someone. Got another four or five books on there as well.


That's where your uses of the product and a business user's uses of the product will differentiate (assuming the user is not abusing the company's expected use of the product).

I was referring to the productivity of the product, and not the bells and whistles that make it a 'gadget' for home users or business people with more interest in gadget than business. Few business folk need to take pictures, have music, use GPS or read Sherlock Holmes in the 9-5 time of the day.

Equally, business users do not need many of the features and gadgets that MS seem to think up to re-invent their OS. It seems to me they ran out of ideas a long time ago. Yes there are better intefaces and web-friendly tools, but this is just eye-candy for the masses.

The office admin worker doesn't need eye candy (in some cases the PC will be slower, so eye candy is not wanted anyway). They need applications which open quickly and reliably, without bugs or crashes.

MS did well with W2K Pro, considering W98SE, and XP was a step in the right direction in some ways. Vista has been nothing but trouble for many users, although it's a lot better than XP if it works, and if you optimise it properly (and if you have decent hardware). Not used Win 7, but have heard that it's better than Vista, but then every OS that comes out always seems to be better, until we get two years down the line, and people realise that the bugs they had are system inherent programming problems, which have no easy solution (winsxs anyone? / Office ribbon anyone?).

Frankly they should be mindful that businesses cannot afford re-training every 3-5 years just to use the same applications, and nor should they. They might keep the eye-candy folk happier, but they are a tiny percentage of the user-base. What they have done in the past is to have basic packages for home users, with business add-ons for businesses and then the really nice stuff at the top end. IMO they should market the basic stuff for businesses, with a higher level for enterprise-type networks / sharing etc. and just leave all the eye-candy in a home-user version.

I'm not against progress, but having a multi-coloured phone instead of the plain black one is not progress.

~~~~~~~~~~


© Camieabz 2002-2011

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 16-Sep-11 14:54:31
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Re: Windows 8


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I only accepted windows 7 when I discovered I could bring back quick launch and use an app to change behaviour of the taskbar.


but the taskbar in windows 7 acts like quick launch in some ways, you stick icons on it like you did with quick launch.
Now i like the task bar in windows 7, but then we are all different.
I am not using office 2010 as I dont like the gui changes.



I don't like it either, I tried a demo of it and could not cope with the ribbon systems, so I reinstalled Publisher from a older version of Office and put on Libre for the rest
To me a phone is to make calls, I think things like the iphone are nothing more than toys, I have a nokia 6300, I have a laptop which is useful but is only normally used when I am out of my home and somewhere else. I have tried a notebook and the screen was too small for me. You could say I am an anti portable device person. eg. I didnt buy a PSP because there is no easy way to output it to a monitor.



agree to a certain degree.
i donwloaded windows 8, stuck it on my laptop but found out that it most of the drivers are not there, so gave up on that idea, sure i could look around for windows 7 drivers, but can't be bothered.
Stuck Linux back on there now, at least they can be bothered with drivers.

Yeah I know windows 8 is only a developer preview.

If I can take everything of one of the drives on this desktop I will try it on there.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 16-Sep-11 15:39:08
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Re: Windows 8


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
I disagree. I've had a decent smartphone for the last six months (HTC Desire) that has finally opened me up to the mobile world. I can finally see the attraction of a decent tablet and I think the old desktop+mouse+screen combo is going to die out. Or at least be restricted to technical software developers like me and we are a shrinking minority.


I got myself a smartphone in the middle of this year, only a HTC wildfire. but i think for a lot of web browsing it is too small, even the Desire which have a larger screen is too small, I just find all mobile phone screens too small.

For accessing Facebook, sending email they are fine.

Not sure what use a tablet is to be honest, they are too large to take very far unless you got a bag, then you may as well take a netbook or small laptop. Business type people who uses netbooks/laptops on trains are not really going to use a tablet due to lack of a keyboard, virtual keyboards just don't cut it.


So I think Microsoft have the right idea here and the Youtube presentation encouraged me. I'm looking forward to the next version of Windows with more personal interest than I have of any OS since Windows XP.


I think it may annoy some people if MS don't put the start menu back, as been said maybe they taken it out to get developer to produce apps for the front end.

Windows is just a way to run software and for a lot of people it won't matter how they get access to that software, but for other people Windows is more.

But will this new Metro UI allow people to pin their own shortcuts on it?

No doubt developers like Google, mozilla and yahoo even will have their own products on the front end, but would i be able to add say a short cut for Vegas?

The other thing bothers me and I think is a big reason that Ms have gone down this Metro UI, is if you click on say Google calender, would it open in Internet Exploder or in the browser you have as default.

IE is losing ground so anything to bring it back on the front of the UI.

the
The only thing that still concerns me a little is sub-pixel addressing (ie;Cleartype and its ilk). My eyes/brain simply cannot handle this technology. This new UI is obviously why MS have been pushing for it but if it can't be disabled then that make genuinely exclude me from 'the revolution' :-/


I don't know,

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 16-Sep-11 15:59:43
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Re: Windows 8


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
Why? Your mouse will still work. The only gestures that can't be done with a mouse are those that require two inputs (eg;zooming).



If no start menu then how are you going to launch other software? i still not sure if you can put your own short cuts on the Metro Ui and even if you can, going from the desktop to the Metro UI will just be a pain.

With the start menu, if I am working with say Vegas and i want to start up photoshop, then it is a easy to click system, one to get the start menu up, the second to click on photoshop.

Come to think of it is is one click for Photoshop as it is on the taskbar.


I am not going to get used to it as I will not be using it.
And scream and scream and stamp your foot until you make yourself sick, right?
Sheesh. Get over it. I've been using computers since the Sinclair Spectrum and yes, change, can be irritating


At least you started with colour and sound then, I started with the ZX80 and a CBM pet at college

but you adapt. I've often thought that Windows would benefit from a large 'app selection' screen. Navigating a start menu is not convenient. Putting your most used icons on the desktop is an improvement - except at present getting back to a clear desktop to select something is problematic. Sure there's a hot key but the whole 'minimise/maximise' process is klunky.

So stop being a Luddite. Give it a fair chance when it becomes available.




I have not put icons ont he desktop for years, with Windows 9x it was the thing to do and with the Amiga for that matter, not that I bothered much with the workbench on my Amiga, easier to use commands.

XP came out and got rid of the My computer on the desktop, and from then on I started to use the start menu a lot more, with windows 7, I put my most used software on the task bar and the ones I use less I click onto the startmenu.

I don't want to go back to some silly phone type UI just to run a bit of software, it is nothing to do with being a Luddite at all.


As been said this is a developer preview and MS may allow people to start up windows 8 in normal desktop mode and also bring back the start menu as it is still in the code.


I see no reason to change anyway, windows 7 does what I want it to do and I am not going to pay out more money for another Os that does the same as the one i am using

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 17-Sep-11 02:51:11
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Re: Windows 8


[re: G3UZF] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by G3UZF:
Oh yeah the ribbon idea is awful, I hate it on Office.

Couldn't agree more. It reduces productivity as you can't find anything, it's all buried away somewhere.

My expertise is with MS Access databases. Ribbon even worse there.


its free and is called 7 taskbar tweaker.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 17-Sep-11 02:56:43
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Re: Windows 8


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Andrue:
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
In reply to a post by camieabz:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14915748

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p92QfWOw88I

Not bad. Where's the productivity though?


microsoft is losing it, its all about cosmetics, But also they seem to be over concentrating on the mobile market.

The sad thing is all tech sites reviewing this are up it like its the next coming, any change anything new is alway sbetter the attitude they have, so microsoft will suck that up and take it as we all want this.
I disagree. I've had a decent smartphone for the last six months (HTC Desire) that has finally opened me up to the mobile world. I can finally see the attraction of a decent tablet and I think the old desktop+mouse+screen combo is going to die out. Or at least be restricted to technical software developers like me and we are a shrinking minority.

So I think Microsoft have the right idea here and the Youtube presentation encouraged me. I'm looking forward to the next version of Windows with more personal interest than I have of any OS since Windows XP.

The only thing that still concerns me a little is sub-pixel addressing (ie;Cleartype and its ilk). My eyes/brain simply cannot handle this technology. This new UI is obviously why MS have been pushing for it but if it can't be disabled then that make genuinely exclude me from 'the revolution' :-/


so you think millions of office workers are going to start using virtual keyboard touch screen, unlikely as companies #1 is productivity.

touch screen in the business has specific uses, although companies i have worked for were using touchscreen 10 years back on NT4, so its not exactly a new tech. But for generic office use, a keyboard will always be more efficient than tapping letters on a screen. For me personally I find a mouse efficient as well. Although its been clear for a while microsoft are trying to remove the mouse with the shortcut keys, search bar etc.

At home its a mixed bag, however I see portable devices having a limited market, they a gimmick which will eventually wear off and restrict the market. eg. I know people who have iphones simply because they can, they give no real reason other than that everyone they know has one. Whilst desktop pc's are a shrinking market they will always be around and their replacement is more laptops than little tiny put in your pocket devices.
Standard User Sark
(legend) Sat 17-Sep-11 09:44:09
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Re: Windows 8


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
however I see portable devices having a limited market, they a gimmick which will eventually wear off and restrict the market.
One thing I noticed about smart phones is that the apps are a lot better to use than the website equivalent. I mean look at this mess compared to the smart phone version.

John.
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