Some Windows 7 thoughts

I mentioned in this thread that I was looking to go W7. Having now done it I thought I'd post some thoughts. I moved from XP Pro.

I chose W7 Professional (64-bit despite my earlier comments about whether it was of benefit to me) as I reckoned I'd need IIS for various test web sites and for Windows XP Mode.

Before the move I browsed around to pick up any tips and found Windows Easy Transfer which I ran on my old system and saved it all to an external drive. As I don't keep most of my data on my C: drive and my whole system was anyway secured with Genie Timeline I intended to reformat the C: drive during the install.

The actual install was fairly straightforward though the path through the partition choice dialogues was slightly confusing, and the format option seemed only to do a quick format, I'd have preferred a full format. I got W7 up and running pretty quickly.

I had some issues with graphics and sound drivers but eventually seemed to have got it right. However I was getting various random BSODs (Driver Verifier and WhoCrashed pointed to a driver but not which one) so after 10 days I rebuilt it all last Friday. So far it seems much more stable.

Using Windows Easy Transfer to bring in my settings from the XP system was a real boon. All my cookies with, for example, forum logins, were there straight away. Full marks from me for a really useful utility.

Most software has gone on without problems. Some difficulty with Family Historian V2, Starry Night Pro V6 but got them both running. VB6 installed fine and my own VB6 programs installed and ran straight away. My DOS Basic programs run under XP Mode. Laplink Gold V12 works though always gives a warning message when started. My old Dreamweaver runs fine. MS Money V12 runs ok. My ancient Reminder program wouldn't run so I found this replacement. My HP Laserjet 1320 runs ok though there is no HP Toolbox for it so I can't monitor toner status. As I never use all my monthly broadband allowance I haven't installed Networx, my ISP provide a meter on their site that I can check once every day or so.

I didn't like the way Windows Explorer has removed features, e.g. status bar info, cut copy paste toolbar buttons but I found Classic Shell is an adequate substitute.

And the PC seems to be running faster, this may be 64-bit using things more effectively, it may just be the benefit of a fresh and clean Windows install. I haven't yet connected my XP Netbook but don't envisage any real problems.

After allowing a week or so to get used to the different look and feel I can honestly say that I like it.

Can't think of anything else at the moment that may, or may not, be of interest.

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

the format option seemed only to do a quick format, I'd have preferred a full format.

There's no point. If you want to securely delete the contents of a drive you need something more thorough. A full format of an HDD is just a waste of time.

Any info or help you need you can find here

http://www.sevenforums.com/

Steve

It wasn't a question of securely deleting, I've other means of doing that if I want to, but refreshing the sectors and layout and giving the surface a 'once over' which, AFAIK, format does.

Indeed, I've browsed odd bits there but not yet joined.

They banned me for no reason. Terrible site.

In reply to a post by 12eason:

They banned me for no reason. Terrible site.

I must join!

A quick update.

Getting my XP Home netbook to connect and talk was a doddle. Busy swapping files as I write.

I also should have mentioned how easy it was to implement a PHP/IIS regime on W7 and set up my test web sites. Much easier than on XP Pro.

In reply to a post by 12eason:

They banned me for no reason. Terrible site.

the site is ok, but some rules are not productive eg. they ban all instances of talk about ad blocking. That includes diagnosing problems caused by an ad blocker.

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

It wasn't a question of securely deleting, I've other means of doing that if I want to, but refreshing the sectors and layout and giving the surface a 'once over' which, AFAIK, format does.

Well it writes 0xF6 to every sector of the volume but that doesn't really prove anything. You might as well just fill the drive with data prior to quick formatting it.

The days when a full format used to do something special with a hard disk are long gone. The position of sectors is set during manufacturing. Low level formatting is still possible but it requires specialised software and would usually only be performed as part of a drive reconditioning process(**). Even the idea of writing to every sector just to check the drive doesn't really apply. If a modern drive finds a problem with a sector it will just silently(*) redirect the data to a spare. Of course if there are no spares available it will error but that's something of a corner case.

I think it's safe to say that a full format is a waste of time in 99% of cases

(*)They can signal the OS but not all OSes bother to do anything about it. From their point of view nothing changes because they continue to use the same sector address. The redirection is all behind the scenes inside the HDD.

(**)If the circuit board has been replaced.

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

Getting my XP Home netbook to connect and talk was a doddle. Busy swapping files as I write.

Well done with that. I had huge problems back when I had Vista. I think I could only establish a connection in one direction with XP. It meant initiating a copy with a 'pull' instead of a more logical 'push'.

Perhaps W7 addresses that.

Overall I'm happy with W7 now. I grabbed the bronze cursor set from XP and I still think the Control Panel is a bit disorganised but I'm 'fluent'. My only other gripe is the speed of the Event Viewer. I have to use that a lot at work and it drives me mad waiting for it to render.

Edited by Andrue (Wed 28-Sep-11 11:09:48)

The Eventvwr.msc from Windows XP runs just fine on Windows 7 and is extremely fast and has a simple and clean view. Just rename it to something else like ClassicEventVwr.msc and put it in system32

Fair enough. My disc background goes back more years than I care to think when disc formatting was a long and thorough process of checking and reinitialising all the track and sector information.

Another update (hope this thread is at least a little helpful to some).

Got a BSOD this morning! Some unidentifiable driver according to WhoCrashed. . Ah well.

Found that my HP Laserjet 1320 (USB connected) couldn't print multiple copies. Found this thread, second post about Mopier Mode has fixed the problem.

I thought I'd install the printer software in XP Mode then at least the HP Toolbox can keep an eye on the printer status. But haven't been able to get XP Mode to see the printer. Any thoughts?

And whoever dreamt up the graphics for Free Cell (ok, I'm sad!) on W7 (was it the same as Vista?) needs shooting, they're quite appalling. I've dropped freecell.exe and cards.dll from XP onto W7 and that works fine.

[Edit for grammar]

Edited by cheshire_man (Wed 28-Sep-11 17:16:38)

Hmm, a BSOD is incredibly unusual nowadays on well looked after systems. I've not had a BSOD on my current installation of Windows 7 ever, about 18 months I think. Extremely stable, I'd certainly try and track down the offender. Did you install any drivers which did not pass WHQL? Failing that, I'd be blaming faulty hardware.

I installed the drivers for the graphics card NVidia GEForce GT 430, filename 280.26-desktop-win7-winvista-64bit-international-whql.exe

I also installed Realtek HD audio, I think that was from the Nvidia CD.

I also have a Logitech webcam and, IIRC, the drivers came from Windows update.

The only other thing that I'm though had installed a driver is Laplink Gold V12. However I've run DriverView and it doesn't list any such driver.

The only non-MS drivers are
C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\dump_atapi.sys
C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\dump_dumpata.sys
C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\dump_dumpfve.sys
Then
Description : Storage Filter Driver
Version : 1.1.2.5 (NT.091202-1659)
Company : Advanced Micro Devices
Product Name : Storage Filter Driver
Modified Date : 11/03/2011 07:41:12
Created Date : 23/09/2011 14:04:51
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\drivers\amdxata.sys
and
File Type : System Driver
Description : Brotehr Serial I/F Driver (WDM)
Version : 1.0.1.6 (vbl_wcp_d2_drivers.060801-2007)
Company : Brother Industries Ltd.
Product Name : Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
Modified Date : 14/07/2009 01:00:40
Created Date : 14/07/2009 01:00:40
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\serial.sys
File Attributes : A
Service Name : Serial
Service Display Name: Serial port driver
and
File Type : Dynamic Link Library
Description : Logitech LVPr2M64 Driver
Version : 12.10.1110.0
Company : Logitech Inc.
Product Name : Logitech Webcam Software
Modified Date : 07/10/2009 01:45:50
Created Date : 07/10/2009 01:45:50
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\LVPr2M64.sys
File Attributes : A
Service Name : LVPr2Mon
Service Display Name: LVPr2M64 Driver
and
File Type : Dynamic Link Library
Description : Logitech Kernel Audio Improvement Filter Driver
Version : 12.10.1110.0
Company : Logitech Inc.
Product Name : Logitech Webcam Software
Modified Date : 07/10/2009 09:47:44
Created Date : 23/09/2011 20:44:23
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\lvrs64.sys
File Attributes : A
Service Name : LVRS64
Service Display Name: Logitech RightSound Filter Driver
and
File Type : Dynamic Link Library
Description : Logitech USB Video Class Driver
Version : 12.10.1110.0
Company : Logitech Inc.
Product Name : Logitech Webcam Software
Modified Date : 07/10/2009 09:49:26
Created Date : 23/09/2011 20:44:23
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\lvuvc64.sys
File Attributes : A
Service Name : LVUVC64
Service Display Name: Logitech QuickCam S7500(UVC)
and
File Type : System Driver
Description : Macrovision SECURITY Driver
Version : 4.03.086
Company : Macrovision Corporation, Macrovision Europe Limited, and Macrovision Japan and Asia K.K.
Product Name : Macrovision SECURITY Driver
Modified Date : 10/06/2009 21:37:19
Created Date : 14/07/2009 03:36:07
Filename : C:\Windows\System32\Drivers\secdrv.SYS
and
File Type : Dynamic Link Library
Description : USB 3.0 Hub Driver
Version : 1.0.17.0 (nusb3drv.102609-2316)
Company : NEC Electronics Corporation
Product Name : USB 3.0 Device Driver
Modified Date : 26/10/2009 16:19:46
Created Date : 26/10/2009 16:19:46
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\nusb3hub.sys
File Attributes : A
Service Name : nusb3hub
Service Display Name: NEC Electronics USB 3.0 Hub Driver
and
File Type : Dynamic Link Library
Description : USB 3.0 Host Controller Driver
Version : 1.0.17.0 (nusb3drv.102609-2316)
Company : NEC Electronics Corporation
Product Name : USB 3.0 Device Driver
Modified Date : 26/10/2009 16:19:48
Created Date : 26/10/2009 16:19:48
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\nusb3xhc.sys
File Attributes : A
Service Name : nusb3xhc
Service Display Name: NEC Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller Driver
and
File Type : Sound Driver
Description : NVIDIA HDMI Audio Driver
Version : 1.2.23.3 built by: WinDDK
Company : NVIDIA Corporation
Product Name : NVIDIA HDMI Audio Driver
Modified Date : 10/05/2011 10:41:27
Created Date : 23/09/2011 13:26:19
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\drivers\nvhda64v.sys
File Attributes : A
Service Name : NVHDA
Service Display Name: Service for NVIDIA High Definition Audio Driver
and
File Type : Display Driver
Description : NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 280.26
Version : 8.17.12.8026
Company : NVIDIA Corporation
Product Name : NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, Version 280.26
Modified Date : 03/08/2011 12:50:00
Created Date : 23/09/2011 13:26:18
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\nvlddmkm.sys
File Attributes : A
Service Name : nvlddmkm
File Type : Network Driver
Description : Realtek 8136/8168/8169 NDIS 6.20 64-bit Driver
Version : 7.017.0304.2010 built by: WinDDK
Company : Realtek
Product Name : Realtek 8136/8168/8169 PCI/PCIe Adapters
Modified Date : 04/03/2010 14:43:00
Created Date : 23/09/2011 13:31:12
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\DRIVERS\Rt64win7.sys
File Attributes : A
Service Name : RTL8167
Service Display Name: Realtek 8167 NT Driver
and
File Type : Sound Driver
Description : Realtek(r) High Definition Audio Function Driver
Version : 6.0.1.6194 built by: WinDDK
Company : Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
Product Name : Realtek(r) High Definition Audio Function Driver
Modified Date : 03/09/2010 09:18:12
Created Date : 24/09/2011 19:52:52
Filename : C:\Windows\system32\drivers\RTKVHD64.sys
File Attributes : A
Service Name : IntcAzAudAddService
Service Display Name: Service for Realtek HD Audio (WDM)
and
File Type : System Driver
Description : SASDIFSV64.SYS
Version : 1, 0, 0, 1016
Company : SUPERAdBlocker.com and SUPERAntiSpyware.com
Product Name : SUPERAntiSpyware
Modified Date : 22/07/2011 17:26:56
Created Date : 22/07/2011 17:26:56
Filename : C:\Program Files\SUPERAntiSpyware\SASDIFSV64.SYS
File Attributes : A
Service Name : SASDIFSV
Service Display Name: SASDIFSV
and
File Type : System Driver
Description : SASKUTIL64.SYS
Version : 1, 0, 0, 1016
Company : SUPERAdBlocker.com and SUPERAntiSpyware.com
Product Name : SUPERAntiSpyware
Modified Date : 12/07/2011 22:55:18
Created Date : 12/07/2011 22:55:18
Filename : C:\Program Files\SUPERAntiSpyware\SASKUTIL64.SYS
File Attributes : A
Service Name : SASKUTIL
Service Display Name: SASKUTIL

The majority of these will have come from the W7 install or the Nvidia CD.

The hardware is around 7 months old. I've run memory tests which all run ok.

I really don't know how to progress this.

Thinking back, When I rebuilt W7 last Friday, just after getting the Windows desktop up for the first time, before I'd installed anything I got a BSOD. That, and today's BSOD are both reported by WhoCrashed as MEMORY MANAGEMENT. Looking that up I ran DriverScanner which reported 17 out of date drivers, mostly Intel'ish ones. Not sure whether I should update all of these or not.

Remove drivers for any peripherals; printers, webcam etc and physically remove them from the computer. Run the comp for a few days to see if it blue screens. Also, get the latest realtek drivers direct from realtek's website.

I've rechecked and the Realtek drivers came from the Realtek site, choosing 64bit and Windows 7, filename 64bit_Vista_Win7_R265.exe. So that looks ok.

In XPMode, use the "USB" menu and attach the device - unfortunately for USB devices, it's not seamless.

I looked at that and it said that Attach the device to XP mode would detach it from the W7 environment so I held back.

I'm unsure whether attaching it to XP would result in W7 not being able to use it when XP is running, or even after it's been hibernated.

Edit: Ok, I've got it now. It can be attached to either XP or W7 but only one at a time, but it can be attached and released by XP as and when I like. That's ok, it won't be often I want to print from XP mode but it's useful to be able to keep an eye on consumables via the HP Toolbox.

Edited by cheshire_man (Wed 28-Sep-11 22:09:27)

I suppose its a way to check for bad sectors?

As Andrue says, modern disks check and remap bad sectors automatically. If there were more bad sectors than this mechanism should handle then you probably ought to throw the disk away.

I ran driver verifier this morning setting to check all non-MS ones.

I had the PC freeze this morning. This happened under my original W7 build and both then and now the mouse's optical light goes out. I wondered whether it was a USB (3) driver issue so after uninstalling it (had to remove it from verifier's monitoring else it BSOD during uninstall) I dug around and found that I was running 1.0.17.0 whereas the latest is 2.1.25.0 so I've installed that one.

I also ran memtest86 for 2 hours or so last night, no faults found.

I'll see whether changing the USB driver makes any difference over the next week or so.

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

Another update (hope this thread is at least a little helpful to some).

Got a BSOD this morning! Some unidentifiable driver according to WhoCrashed. . Ah well.

Ouch. That has to be worth investigating. I can honestly say that I've seen any installation of Win 7 blue screen. In fact for any version from XP on to BSOD is very rare.

I'd appreciate some pointers on how to follow up (see my later post about this morning's events).

Should I attempt to go through each driver (MS or non-MS) and see if they're the latest? In turn or one at a time?

Rebuild with only the minimum/essential apps & drivers?

Thoughts please.

In reply to a post by AEP:

As Andrue says, modern disks check and remap bad sectors automatically. If there were more bad sectors than this mechanism should handle then you probably ought to throw the disk away.

only when the sector is hit, by that time you may have almost filled the drive.

At least a full format is a way to check every sector when you first get the drive.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

In reply to a post by AEP:

As Andrue says, modern disks check and remap bad sectors automatically. If there were more bad sectors than this mechanism should handle then you probably ought to throw the disk away.

only when the sector is hit, by that time you may have almost filled the drive.

At least a full format is a way to check every sector when you first get the drive.

That's true but it's a rather pessimistic view. That would be like buying a new car and immediately driving it to the nearest garage for a hundred-point inspection and a service

A full format on an old drive makes a bit more sense. If it's already declining then it might be enough to push it over the edge and better to find out then rather than three months down the line. I still think that statistically that's a bit of a long shot, mind.

I suppose I'm not really saying "don't do it". I'm just suggesting that MS are being quite reasonable in not bothering to offer that option in their installer. In the vast majority of cases it does nothing but waste 15 minutes of the user's time

In reply to a post by Andrue:

In the vast majority of cases it does nothing but waste 15 minutes of the user's time

Ever formatted a terabyte drive , abit more than 15 minutes.

I agree its not a big issue not havng it on the installer. As long as still in the OS itself which it is.

In terms of hdd failires, I have had many dozens fail in remote servers. I put this down to possibly poor air cirulation in DC's and more likely due to poor hardware quality control. In servers where I use my own hardware I have had 0 hdd failures and at home the only hdd's that have had issues are ones that are very old, at least 5 years old.

An update.

I decided to persevere with the existing build.

I've uninstalled the webcam software and unplugged the webcam.

I found that the USB3 driver was out of date so updated that. I also ran an Intel scanner from their web site and found the NIC driver was out of date so have updated that.

Yesterday I was thinking that as my last BSOD was Thursday 29.9 I'd cracked it. Then yesterday morning, 10-15 minutes after booting, it went to BSOD. As ever a random module. So I don't really know whether that was a 'fluke' given I'd gone almost 7 days without one.

The only other oddity I've had, and I had the occasional one ever since going W7, is that the whole PC freezes, the red mouse laser switches off. The only way out is to power down and reboot. I've not noticed whether the router looses the LAN light, remiss of me.

Anyway I'll keep at it. It's certainly more stable but I continue to be wary.

what a pain. my win7 was stable until IE9 was installed. In the end I disabled the graphics acceleraton and that cured it.

I've had another BSOD this afternoon and WhoCrashed said it was in the rt64win7.sys driver file - Realtek 8136/8168/8169 NDIS 6.20 64-bit Driver - so I had a look on the Realtek site and found a later driver which is now installed.

I must admit I'd thought I'd checked all drivers to ensure I was up to date. Clearly that one got missed. Is there any Freeware around that will check all drivers on a system and report on their uptodateness?

Anyway, we'll see.

Pcpitstop.com driver alert is what I use.