Windows Vista and Wireless Networks Question

Hi Guys,

Hoping someone can help me troubleshoot an issue. A friend of mine has 3 laptops for their family. They have broadband from Sky and all the laptops connect via wireless. A couple of weeks ago one laptop stopped talking to the internet, the others were fine. Windows OS is Vista (latest SP and hotfixes).

I've been asked to take a look and here's what I've found so far.

- The laptop can connect to the wireless network and will receive an IP address via DHCP.
- The laptop can NOT ping the router or access the router webpage (regardless if IP is static or DHCP).
- The laptop can successfully connect to other wireless network and browse the internet.

One thing I did notice is that when the laptop connects to the home network is says "Local Only" in terms of access and it lists it as "unidentified network" (I thought Vista gave you the option of public or private networks).

I've done some Googling and there are some suggestions about resetting the network stack which I've done and disabling IPv6 but this hasn't made a difference.

Is there anyway to make Vista completely forget the wireless network (I know you can delete it from the Networking Control Panel). I don't want to reinstall Vista if I can really help it.

Many thanks in advance.

Have you removed that particular wireless profile from "manage wireless networks", and then tried reconnecting from scratch re-entering the wifi key etc?

You can change the network location by clicking customize in the network and sharing center, see: http://www.vistax64.com/attachments/tutorials/2563d1...

Have you analyzed the result of an IPconfig /all to rule out any oddities?

Has a proxy server inadvertantly been configured in internet options in IE?

Also, perhaps try disabling the windows firewall to rule that out.

In reply to a post by Pipexer:

Have you removed that particular wireless profile from "manage wireless networks", and then tried reconnecting from scratch re-entering the wifi key etc?

Yep done that. It allows me to re-enter the security key but then marks it as "Unidentified network" with "Local Only" access which makes me think Vista isn't deleting the whole profile.

I'll check out your link tomorrow.

The IPConfig looks fine. No proxies configured that I can see. The laptop works fine when connected to my wireless network here. Windows firewall is also disabled.

Have you tried updating the Wireless Network Drivers.
Have seen at least one Laptop runiing Vista which could connect to older SKY Routers and BT Hubs, but not the newer SKY Routers. After i updated the Wireless network drivers, connected first time to the newer SKY Router.
So worth a try.

Search for any newer drivers and download those if available.
Turn off the wireless adapter and uninstall it completely.
Delete any associated software folders and run CCleaner or similar.
If you can install the new drivers without turning the adapter on, do so. If not, turn it on and at the "New Hardware" prompt, force it to use the newer drivers (If available).

I have had this problem with Vista and the solution was to disable DHCP on the laptop and give it a fixed IP address. Gary

Lots of people have asked me about this problem probably hundreds of times before with Vista. Wasn't anything to do with the drivers at all.

On Windows Vista, they set the security settings to check for a DHCP broadcast flag when it connects to any wireless router ( like a special club handshake ). Not all routers have this capability, so Vista wont give you internet access.

Microsoft released a patch for this which turns this feature off which can be downloaded from http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928233

Hi Pipexer,

I followed that link. Changed the location to Private however upon reboot it went back to "Unidentified".

TTEnt / Deadbeat,

Have uninstalled the drivers, rebooted the laptop and installed the latest drivers from the manufacturer. No difference. It can see the wireless network, get an IP address but won't browse the internet.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I have had this problem with Vista and the solution was to disable DHCP on the laptop and give it a fixed IP address. Gary

Tried it with a static IP address, no joy.

In reply to a post by wanapoo:

Lots of people have asked me about this problem probably hundreds of times before with Vista. Wasn't anything to do with the drivers at all.

On Windows Vista, they set the security settings to check for a DHCP broadcast flag when it connects to any wireless router ( like a special club handshake ). Not all routers have this capability, so Vista wont give you internet access.

Microsoft released a patch for this which turns this feature off which can be downloaded from http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928233

Applied that fix. The router never had a problem getting an IP address from the router. Tried it with the fix, but still same problem - router can connect to the wifi network, get an IP address but not browse the internet.

Could you post the output of an ipconfig /all here for us?

Any security programs they have installed which might be interfering?

Before going further it might be a good time to totally reset the router to defaults and reconfigure, including setting a new wireless key and changing the SSID.

Edited by Pipexer (Thu 13-Oct-11 12:26:29)

Are all laptops Vista? Is there an Ethernet connected desktop?

Try disabling UPnP in router if it is ON & not needed.

Hello,

Did you download the MSI file from the microsoft website, or did you edit the registry to change the value? The description of the local network only but has the ability to connect to other types of wifi routers without any problems sounds very much like the broadcast flag issue.

Cant be the router at fault as the other 2 laptops work fine.

Edited by deleted (Thu 13-Oct-11 17:20:14)

Surlely as it is picking up an IP address and correct settings (accoridng to OP) this rules it out?

Silly question probably, but it's not a case of MAC filtering on the router is it?

Vista will connect to MOST retail/after market routers as they support the broadcast flag secret club handshake feature. The freebie routers dont have all the bells and whistles. Thats why the Vista laptop can connect without any problems to most other routers which support that feature.

If the driver was faulty, it wouldn't work fine on the other router.
If it had the wrong dns / proxy settings, wouldn't work on the other router.

The only other thing which i was thinking about was that the SKY routers use upper case charactors in the password for the wifi. But the tell tale signs of that would be windows is continually saying aquiring authentication which the OP hasn't mentioned.

You haven't answered my question though, which I am curious about for my own knowledge - If the client has successfully got it's IP settings from the router, does this rule the cause out or not?

AEP suggestion of MAC filtering on the router is the most likely router-related reason I would put it down to, that's usually how MAC filtering works, doles out an IP but won't pass traffic - hence my suggestion to blow away the settings on the router to rule that out, it takes 5 minutes at most to reconfigure a home users ADSL router, may as well just reset the entire thing then you can start clean.

In addition, why should it suddenly stop working due to this issue? Surely it should have never connected in the first place if this was the cause. Then again, as usual the customer/user never tells us the proper story as to why stuff stopped working, the fact they were pushing buttons on the router a couple of days ago never occurs to them as relevant when you ask "did you do anything which may have caused this?"

In reply to a post by Pipexer:

Could you post the output of an ipconfig /all here for us?

Any security programs they have installed which might be interfering?

Before going further it might be a good time to totally reset the router to defaults and reconfigure, including setting a new wireless key and changing the SSID.

Hi,

I'm not at the property where the problem is at the moment so can't post an ipconfig /all. Only security program I am aware of is AVG but will double check.

I would rather not reset the router as there are other workstations which are working.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Are all laptops Vista? Is there an Ethernet connected desktop?

Try disabling UPnP in router if it is ON & not needed.

The laptops are all Vista and working (with the exception of this one) wirelessly. There is also a desktop which I think is running XP but can't be sure and that is wireless as well.

In reply to a post by wanapoo:

Hello,

Did you download the MSI file from the microsoft website, or did you edit the registry to change the value? The description of the local network only but has the ability to connect to other types of wifi routers without any problems sounds very much like the broadcast flag issue.

Cant be the router at fault as the other 2 laptops work fine.

I downloaded the MSI.

In reply to a post by AEP:

Silly question probably, but it's not a case of MAC filtering on the router is it?

Nope. Checked that. MAC filtering is turned off.

As you stated earlier ACCORDING TO THE OP he is getting an IP and correct settings.

It's the same as dsl, you may have sync/connection with the exchange. The internet doesn't work until you satisfy the authentication like login name and password.

Yes, AEP has a point about the MAC filtering, but I've never known a cheap freebie router to have those features. I could be wrong on the latest SKY router, but the last version I saw didnt have those advanced features.

As you say, there maybe some other information missing which would of suddenly caused this dilema. Have they recently had a new router from sky, who knows. In the old days you had the issues between wep,wpa-psk etc. But i would of thought Vista is new enough and should know these standards by now.

I am following my gut instinct on this, I've seen and dealt with this common issue many times before. Thinking about it, the last time i had to deal with this problem personally was about Jan 2010 when a friend bought a new netbook. Had the same bizar behaviour. Actually, thinking about it, there was a guy on this forum who i answered with exactly the same problem. He instaled the fix and cured his problem strate away. I'll try and find it to show you how common this problem is.

That's exactly the setup I had when this happened; see: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/windows/t/3949336-i...

Did you try UPnP OFF?

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/multiuser/f/3982942...

This guy had exactly the same problem caused by the broadcast flag issue. Works on some routers what support it, but doesn't on others.

I thought that all routers allowed MAC filtering - it's not what I would call advanced. But the OP has said that MAC filtering is off (which implies it is an option on his router), so it can't be that. Shame, as that would be an easy fix and has caught me out on a few occasions.

Last time, on another forum, when someone asked a very similar problem it turned out to be MAC filtering (although the OP in that case swore that MAC filtering was turned off - and then found it wasn't!).

In reply to a post by wanapoo:

As you stated earlier ACCORDING TO THE OP he is getting an IP and correct settings.

Isn't it a case that. when you fail to connect to Net, you are assigned some default non-visible IP by the router?

It would be interesting to know what IP address is being configured. Windows will assign a special address (can't remember off the top of my head what it is) if it can't get one from a DHCP server, so an IP address doesn't mean all is well.

You may be thinking of an APIPA address, this is simply when a DHCP server is not found or refuses to dole out an IP address. 169.254.0.0/16. It is not related to your router not connecting to the internet (unless you are getting a public IP address that is or something..)

When you have a sync with the exchange though, you do not have an IP address, because it is a PPP session. What does that have to do with DHCP? I apologise if I am misunderstanding you here. Aquilla said it's getting an IP address no problem, therefore, I cannot see why a DHCP problem can be blamed. MS article says "Windows Vista cannot obtain an IP address from certain routers or from certain non-Microsoft DHCP servers" - It has got an IP address.....

...Which we are assuming is not an APIPA, one reason why it's always good to have a full ipconfig posted here so we can all check.

Edited by Pipexer (Thu 13-Oct-11 23:01:43)

Im sorry Pipexer, but I dont know how to explain this to you in a way that you understand. I tried to explain it using dsl as a reference only, but you've missed the point i was trying to make and taken it literally.

The laptop must have some kind of a connection to a router to communicate in some way or form, to be able to send the authentication details through to it. That is the stage the OP is at. Vista is requesting an extra security authentication which not all routers support, thus the OP can not complete VISTA's security authentication process and wont progress any further then local access. He doesn't really have local access, just access to the authentication stage.

Edited by deleted (Thu 13-Oct-11 23:47:19)

Hi Guys,

I'm not at the property, but I'm going to try and get over there this morning (probably around 11ish) for an hour or so to troubleshoot.

I briefly saw a question about what IP address was being assigned - it was getting a 192.168.1.x address which is the configured range on the router. I did switch the router off, reboot the laptop and then reconnect and it got a different address (in the same range) which implies it wasn't caching it.

Hi Guys,

Right I'm at the property now troubleshooting this. The wireless router from Sky is a small black box with a label declaring it a Sagemcom device.

Here is an IPConfig /all when I'm connected to the wireless network:

C:\Users\Ben>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : Ben-PC
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : Home

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Home
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Atheros AR5007EG Wireless Network Adapter

Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-19-7E-BE-DF-9F
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::650b:1892:327f:fcbe%17(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.13(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 14 October 2011 13:04:38
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 15 October 2011 13:04:37
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 369105278
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-0E-40-A0-1D-00-1B-38-28-8F-4D

DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

I have also disabled IPv6 in the network connections but that hasn't made a difference.

I can successfully connect over Ethernet.

I have disabled uPnP but the connection still doesn't work.

Trying to ping something over the wireless gives this:

C:\Users\Ben>ping 8.8.8.8

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Reply from 192.168.0.13: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.0.13: Destination host unreachable.
Reply from 192.168.0.13: Destination host unreachable.

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 3, Lost = 1 (25% loss),

I reckon it's that Atheros chip that's not playing nicely with the router - saw the same issue with my friends son's laptop - popped in a USB WFi dongle and it worked instantly.. Worth a try if you've got a dongle to hand..

In reply to a post by Spasch:

I reckon it's that Atheros chip that's not playing nicely with the router - saw the same issue with my friends son's laptop - popped in a USB WFi dongle and it worked instantly.. Worth a try if you've got a dongle to hand..

The laptop has successfully connected to the network before.

Edit: See the post below for an update. It emerges that this laptop worked on the old Sky router and the router was changed a few weeks back!

Edited by aquilla (Fri 14-Oct-11 17:50:25)

STOP PRESS. My friend has just decided to tell me that the laptop stopped working when the new router from Sky arrived! Having previously asked them "has anything changed?" and "when did it stop working?" and being told "nothing's changed, it just stopped working a couple of weeks ago", I've been on a wild goose chase!

I'll order up a new wireless card later as recommended by someone earlier in this thread.

Many thanks to all those who replied and sorry for the time wasting.

LOL!! Gotta love end users!!

Reminds me of a retired police officer friend. Rang me up one day to say he was having various problems with his PC. I asked what he'd changed,"Nothing" he replied. Conversation went on a bit. Then he suddenly said, "oh yes, I put a new version of Windows in"!.

The same person who rang me one to say his ink jet printer was making all the printing noises but the paper was blank. After much head scratching I found he'd changed the font colour to white.

Doh!