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Standard User shalom2005
(member) Thu 01-Mar-12 08:55:59
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Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[link to this post]
 
I tried Windows 8 yesterday on my old Shuttle. I had already made a partition so I did not disturb
Windows 7 (which I think is fine).

The install took around 15 minutes (my PC is now around 5 years old).

I must say that after spending around two hours playing with Windows 8 the partition was removed!!

It's really quite dreadful in my opinion and will only succeed for tablets & touchscreens. For traditional PC users it is really a complete mess. It took me a few minutes to work out how to do a search and how to shutdown. Explorer had a few improvements, like pausing copying and Task Manager looked nice, but I'm sure there are, or will be utilities that do the same.

One has to click several times to do the tasks you do in one click on Windows 7. It just looks like Microsoft has redesigned a perfectly good operating system to make a few more bucks, so users can 'upgrade'.

Do I stand alone? Am I being unfair??!

Best Regards

Steven, Chigwell, Essex

BE* Home

Download Speed: 18,049 kbps
)Upload Speed: 1,338 kbps

Edited by shalom2005 (Thu 01-Mar-12 08:57:13)

Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 01-Mar-12 09:00:56
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
Is your computer made for Windows8?

Thought not, nuff said
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 09:24:36
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
Am I being unfair?
Are you being unfair in judging an OS after using it for just a couple of hours? That's a no-brainer!


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Standard User john2007
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 09:39:03
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
Fail for me. I tried installing it on my laptop but it rejected my Windows Vista key.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 10:18:39
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
windows 8 will probably be a commercial failure on desktops imo for 2 prime reasons.

a major change in the GUI thats focused on touchscreen use.
the fact its released right after a good version of windows and very soon after, windows seven.
Standard User shalom2005
(member) Thu 01-Mar-12 11:02:02
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
Fail for me. I tried installing it on my laptop but it rejected my Windows Vista key.


If you downloaded the ISO you should have used the supplied Key:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/iso

Best Regards

Steven, Chigwell, Essex

BE* Home

Download Speed: 18,049 kbps
Upload Speed: 1,338 kbps
Standard User john2007
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 11:34:26
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
Correct. My mistake.

I have now installed from the iso and am posting this from IE in Windows 8.

The user interface isn't such a culture shock to me as I've being using Gnome 3 under Linux for some time. If you use Windows I think it's worth persevering. It took me a couple of days to get use to Gnome 3. At least Windows 8 has a Desktop icon (I suspect that's what most people miss from Gnome 3).
Standard User john2007
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 11:47:31
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
One complaint. Why does Windows still insist on overwriting the Master Boot Record. It takes 10 minutes or so to launch Linux in rescue mode to re-intsall grub so that you can choose boot options.
Moderator billford
(moderator) Thu 01-Mar-12 12:29:05
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
... so that you can choose boot options.
I think you've answered your own question!

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill

[email protected] __________________Planes and Boats and ... __________________BQM
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User john2007
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 12:57:52
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
It just seems so churlish of Microsoft.
Standard User TheHorseman
(knowledge is power) Thu 01-Mar-12 13:19:33
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by shalom2005:
It's really quite dreadful in my opinion and will only succeed for tablets & touchscreens. For traditional PC users it is really a complete mess. It took me a few minutes to work out how to do a search and how to shutdown. Explorer had a few improvements, like pausing copying and Task Manager looked nice, but I'm sure there are, or will be utilities that do the same.

One has to click several times to do the tasks you do in one click on Windows 7. It just looks like Microsoft has redesigned a perfectly good operating system to make a few more bucks, so users can 'upgrade'.

Do I stand alone? Am I being unfair??!


I tried it last night on my iMac using VirtualBox, it loaded and ran ok. Then after a while I wanted to shut it down and get on with some other stuff. It is not at all obvious and took a few mins and a quick google to see how to do it. It would certainly not tempt me away from OS X.

I do not think that you are being unfair at all, to me it looked like the usual Windows mess with an extra layer or two of interface complexity.

BT -> Zen -> F2S -> Bulldog -> Be* -> BT Infinity
Say it with flowers, give her a Triffid smile
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 13:32:18
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: TheHorseman] [link to this post]
 
I wonder if it is possibly unfair to judge an Operating System because you spent a few minutes playing with a Beta and found some things not immediately obvious? How obvious is it to shut down OS X if you have never used it before and have read no books about it (or even the minimal instructions that Apple supply). Answer - it is not intuitive.

Betas are really for users who don't need hand-holding and can work out a few basics for themselves. I'm sure that when the final version is delivered it will come with some introductory material to teach you the basics. If not, rest assured that there will be a host of "dummies" books to help.
Standard User john2007
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 14:36:56
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
I can't judge as I don't use Windows. However if the main change is to the user interface then it is rather a con.
Standard User Brunel
(experienced) Thu 01-Mar-12 15:03:05
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
Are Wordpad and Notepad included in this preview?

Or am I wasting my time looking for them?
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 15:58:42
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
The main change is not to the user interface. It introduces a whole new set of applications (Metro), for example, which display live data in their icons on the Start Page. This is something that other consumer OSs do not do. Also there is a new storage technology, and many other improvements.

As you say, you don't use Windows so I guess you wouldn't notice the changes.
Standard User TheHorseman
(knowledge is power) Thu 01-Mar-12 16:03:49
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
I recently upgraded my Ubuntu machine to 11.10 and the interface there, is substantially changed (Gnome 3) but I found my way around it much more easily than the Windows 8 preview. On OS X you would quickly notice the menu bar at the top of the screen and the Dock at the bottom. At least you would have somewhere to look. Windows 8 seems to hide things from the user.

BT -> Zen -> F2S -> Bulldog -> Be* -> BT Infinity
Say it with flowers, give her a Triffid smile
Standard User john2007
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 16:16:40
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
What do you mean by live data in their icons? Sounds pretty similar to the continuous updates Gnome 3 start page icons get.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 16:19:23
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Brunel] [link to this post]
 
Both are included. Right-click on the Start screen and select "All apps" from the menu bar at the bottom.

No more difficult that Windows 7, is it? Just different.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 16:24:05
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: TheHorseman] [link to this post]
 
On OS X you would quickly notice the menu bar at the top of the screen and the Dock at the bottom.
You would; and you know how to use these things. But to a beginer it is not obvious that you have to click on the apple at the top left of the screen and select "Shut down...". It's easy when you know how. So is Windows 8 once you learn how. But a cursory play with it is not enough to discover everything.

Truth is, the easiest way to shut down any modern computer is just to give the power button a push - and it's the most intuitive method too.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 16:54:59
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
I was thinking of, for example, the Finance icon which provided live updates of stock market trends. This is rather more advanced than the trivial changes you get to icons in some other OSs (for example to indicate new mail).

I've not used Gnome 3, so I'll take your word for it that it does this sort of thing. I'm not aware of anything like that in any other (perhaps I should have added commercial) consumer OS.
Standard User e102gamma
(committed) Thu 01-Mar-12 17:52:39
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
Android widgets? Windows gadgets? Doesn't seem anything new.

I think the main problem for Windows 8 is Windows 7. 7 is considered "good enough", like XP before it, so why would people upgrade? I certainly have no plans.

Edited by e102gamma (Thu 01-Mar-12 17:53:15)

Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 18:03:35
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
The biggest problem you are probably struggling to adapt to is the removal of the taskbar, instead of doing that, you go to the side or corners. Once you get used to that you probably find it's a more efficient way of working (for the most part)

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 18:40:28
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: e102gamma] [link to this post]
 
Not the same thing at all. These are full blown applications that display a "live" icon when not running.

I don't think that Microsoft will have any problems selling Windows 8, particularly on a host of ARM-based tablets. I suspect that it will prove, in time, to be Microsoft's most successful OS.
Standard User pcologist
(newbie) Thu 01-Mar-12 19:06:50
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
Totally agree with you AEP as a scientist I think it is going to be an incredible operating system it will tie the versatility of many contrivance’s into a very clever and powerful tool. On final release it will be a very exciting major operating system to start to learn and master its intricacies. It is an extraordinary development and very advanced to anything else on the market for many years to come. Very impressed
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 20:13:22
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Brunel] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Brunel:
Are Wordpad and Notepad included in this preview?

Or am I wasting my time looking for them?


Press left windows key and R to get the run dialogue up , then type in notepad or wordpad and enter. i thought we gone pas this text entry for commands, may as well go back tot he Amiga.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 20:15:54
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: e102gamma] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by e102gamma:
Android widgets? Windows gadgets? Doesn't seem anything new.

I think the main problem for Windows 8 is Windows 7. 7 is considered "good enough", like XP before it, so why would people upgrade? I certainly have no plans.


Nor me, windows 7 does what I want with ease. Windows 8 is very cloud based, wants you to have a microsoft account, which is the old live account and most of the apps on the metro screen will not work unless you have one.

i am not a cloud person, prefer to keep my files on my computer, not on someone elses.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 20:22:30
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Agree with you there, luckily you can opt out. I suppose this is Microsoft bending to pressure, moron users who can't manage anything unless it's all in one place, can't remember more than one password, etc.

It's going to be a LONG time before power users can put all their data on the cloud and manage and work with it at acceptable speeds, but, people who use a computer for the sole purpose of talking rubbish on twitter and facebook may find these features very useful.

______________
Zen 8000 Active

Edited by Pipexer (Thu 01-Mar-12 20:26:24)

Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 20:46:26
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Well, you can run them that way, but it's easier just to use the icons. Pin them to the Start Page if you are going to use them a lot. Just like the Start Menu really. smile
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 20:50:07
Print Post

Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
In reply to a post by Brunel:
Are Wordpad and Notepad included in this preview?

Or am I wasting my time looking for them?


Press left windows key and R to get the run dialogue up , then type in notepad or wordpad and enter. i thought we gone pas this text entry for commands, may as well go back tot he Amiga.

Err it's easier than that ... on the metro start screen, just type "notepad" and hit enter!

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 20:51:13
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
Windows 8 doesn't require you to store all your data in the Cloud. But you can if you want. It's more versatile than earlier versions of Windows. I could wish it had inherited the new file system from Server "8"; perhaps we'll get that in 9.
Standard User john2007
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 20:57:02
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
People need to spend more than a few minutes using Gnome 3. Perhaps then they'll see how many of the ideas have been incorporated into Windows 8.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 20:59:48
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
Does ReFS really have much benefit for home users? I know where you are coming from. Also remember it can't be used to boot from, nor can you convert from NTFS, which might have something to do with why it's not appeared in the home version.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 21:04:38
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
The history of Operating Systems has always consisted of borrowing the best from other implementations. Nothing new there.

But I doubt that as many people will be spending as much time with Gnome 3 as with Windows 8.
Standard User john2007
(legend) Thu 01-Mar-12 21:06:45
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
Agree. Nothing new here.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 01-Mar-12 21:06:45
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
NTFS is hopelessly dated. I'd really like to see something like ZFS, but ReFS would certainly be an improvement.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 01-Mar-12 22:11:27
Print Post

Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
Yes after a few reviews, i think it will fail for conventional PC users as it purely pointed at tablets and touch devices
Standard User Brunel
(experienced) Thu 01-Mar-12 23:52:31
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
Thanks......another senior moment strikes again.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 00:17:02
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Yes after a few reviews, i think it will fail for conventional PC users as it purely pointed at tablets and touch devices

Thing is... it's actually not and they've put thought into this. I took my laptop to the pub with Windows 8 on tonight and in about 30 minutes I had figured "it all out" and was powering through things when showing people how it works. Command prompt? No problem > Windows Key > "cmd" > Enter, bingo!

It would actually take more steps to do this on Windows XP, I'd have to press Windows Key+R instead of just Windows Key.

The same ignorant users will have issues with it, because they would rather fuss and complain for years about how it never works, rather than spend 1 hour learning and reading about how to use it. However, people who adapt will do just that... adapt, and find that the interface is powerful and is actually very good.

Don't get me wrong, certain tasks can be carried out better in the old style, though that same concept actually applies now when you can do things easier in command prompt or powershell instead of poking around in the GUI, it's no different, there's just a balance to be had.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User Alex1M6
(newbie) Fri 02-Mar-12 01:35:02
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
It seems to me that windows has always been a pattern of success and fail.

Win95 - success
Win98 - was unpopular, very unstable
Win98se - success
WinME - complete [censored]
WinXP - huge success, in fact it is still used by many users and company's today.
WinVista - lol over-hyped full of bugs.
Win7 - Best windows version ever.
Win8 - probably a flop.
Standard User chris6273
(member) Fri 02-Mar-12 03:17:00
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
I think this version of windows is going to be a life changer for Windows Phones and Tablets. It looks absolutely excellent on the phones I've seen and it also looks very modern.

On the PC's I think it is going to be okay, but I can't comment completely because I haven't figured it all out and I haven't spent enough time on it. The best part of the OS I've seen so far is the fantastic, modern looking home screen.

I'm actually glad Microsoft have released a copy for all the public to try out. Apart from free Linux distributions, I don't know of any other company to release an future pay ware OS to the public on this scale.

In response to the OP:

In reply to a post by shalom2005:
Do I stand alone?


If it was only me commenting, I'd say yes! How can you judge an OS when it has only been released less than 48 hours ago (At the time of your post)?

In reply to a post by shalom2005:
Am I being unfair??!


Yes. Again, how can you judge Windows 8 when it was released under 48 hours ago?


I think we should give it some more time for Microsoft to fix any bugs before we all start judging it smile

-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed: 24184 kbps 1211 kbps
Line Attenuation: 16.5 db 6.4 db
Noise Margin: 0.5 db 6.2 db

Edited by chris6273 (Fri 02-Mar-12 03:23:24)

Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 07:07:34
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Alex1M6] [link to this post]
 
You missed out NT (huge success) and Windows 2000 (massive success). Unfortuntaely, neither of them fit your pattern.
Standard User Alex1M6
(newbie) Fri 02-Mar-12 08:48:19
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
Consumer aimed OS's...

Edited by Alex1M6 (Fri 02-Mar-12 08:55:10)

Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 08:51:43
Print Post

Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Alex1M6] [link to this post]
 
Windows 2000 was certainly a consumer OS. NT less so.

If you could buy it in Dixons, or Dell supplied it with their home PCs, it was a consumer OS as far as I'm concerned.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 10:02:48
Print Post

Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
Agree with you there, luckily you can opt out. I suppose this is Microsoft bending to pressure, moron users who can't manage anything unless it's all in one place, can't remember more than one password, etc.

It's going to be a LONG time before power users can put all their data on the cloud and manage and work with it at acceptable speeds, but, people who use a computer for the sole purpose of talking rubbish on twitter and facebook may find these features very useful.


Well just to have a peak I did change my windows 8 login from a local account using my hotmail account, I don't use it for anything now anyway.

i found the Apps limited, certainly for email as it only shows the last few emails and I can't find anyway of going to older emails.

I don't really trust the cloud to be honest I know i use lastpast for my passwords, but that is only after a lot of research.
i can't find a app for twitter or facebook unless the people app is for that,
.

.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 10:04:18
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
Well, you can run them that way, but it's easier just to use the icons. Pin them to the Start Page if you are going to use them a lot. Just like the Start Menu really. smile


Not really, as you got to go again to the start page to run another bit of software, i know you can add them to the taskbar, but add too many and that starts to be a pain.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 10:04:58
Print Post

Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
In reply to a post by Brunel:
Are Wordpad and Notepad included in this preview?

Or am I wasting my time looking for them?


Press left windows key and R to get the run dialogue up , then type in notepad or wordpad and enter. i thought we gone pas this text entry for commands, may as well go back tot he Amiga.

Err it's easier than that ... on the metro start screen, just type "notepad" and hit enter!


so bang goes the ease of use that metro is suppose to bring.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 10:05:42
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
People need to spend more than a few minutes using Gnome 3. Perhaps then they'll see how many of the ideas have been incorporated into Windows 8.


Don't like Gnome 3 either.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 10:11:03
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
Windows 2000 was certainly a consumer OS. NT less so.

If you could buy it in Dixons, or Dell supplied it with their home PCs, it was a consumer OS as far as I'm concerned.


Windows 2000 was never for the home user, I never saw it in dixons, I know Dell had it on some computers, but not many.

windows 98/Me was consumer. Windows Xp was MS way of getting away from DOS and going the NT way for all

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 10:17:12
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
What? If you want a notepad icon on the Start screen just put it there.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 10:17:43
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
I must have imagined the copy I bought in Dixons.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 10:18:32
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Well, put an icon on the Desktop then.
Standard User john2007
(legend) Fri 02-Mar-12 10:21:48
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
The cloud? Any person who trusts personal data to the cloud deserves what they get. A bit like people who store their e-mail with Google. It's only a question of time before it is stolen.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 02-Mar-12 14:43:43
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: e102gamma] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by e102gamma:
Android widgets? Windows gadgets? Doesn't seem anything new.

I think the main problem for Windows 8 is Windows 7. 7 is considered "good enough", like XP before it, so why would people upgrade? I certainly have no plans.


Agree
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 17:11:54
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Alex1M6] [link to this post]
 
Like AEP said I don't think you can just go "good bad good bad" tongue

This comes from the same sort of thinking that BBC One is good, BBC2 bad, ITV good, etc...

What bugs did you run into in Vista then? Is it not just possible that people who had issues with Windows Vista had them because they installed 3rd party products not designed for Vista, for the most part, I think so!

______________
Zen 8000 Active

Edited by Pipexer (Fri 02-Mar-12 17:23:53)

Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Fri 02-Mar-12 20:07:59
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
One complaint. Why does Windows still insist on overwriting the Master Boot Record. It takes 10 minutes or so to launch Linux in rescue mode to re-intsall grub so that you can choose boot options.


You can turn the question around the other way "Why does Linux insist on Grub being the boot loader?" The answer is for the 1% of people who dual boot, they generally know enough to fix it.

Personally I prefer running one OS, and virtualising the others.

James - be* pro - on THFB - sync about 17.2mbps - BQM
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Fri 02-Mar-12 20:12:38
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
I must have imagined the copy I bought in Dixons.


smile Dixons certainly sold Win2000, but as it didn't support DirectX the recommendation from MS was for home users to run 98(SE) or latterly ME.

XP unified the eXPerience; giving full DirectX gaming support from the 9x/ME world to the NT kernel.

2000 was the majority of the improvements however, NT kernel 5.0, whereas XP was incremental 5.1

James - be* pro - on THFB - sync about 17.2mbps - BQM
Standard User acpsd775
(experienced) Fri 02-Mar-12 20:20:11
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
Agree with you there, luckily you can opt out. I suppose this is Microsoft bending to pressure, moron users who can't manage anything unless it's all in one place, can't remember more than one password, etc.

It's going to be a LONG time before power users can put all their data on the cloud and manage and work with it at acceptable speeds, but, people who use a computer for the sole purpose of talking rubbish on twitter and facebook may find these features very useful.


Well just to have a peak I did change my windows 8 login from a local account using my hotmail account, I don't use it for anything now anyway.

i found the Apps limited, certainly for email as it only shows the last few emails and I can't find anyway of going to older emails.

I don't really trust the cloud to be honest I know i use lastpast for my passwords, but that is only after a lot of research.
i can't find a app for twitter or facebook unless the people app is for that,
.

.


In the mail app you right click & show folders it shows all your Hotmail exactly like it dose on the web version with all your extra stuff

Ash

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sky 9732kbps/ 796kbps + TalkTalk 11105kbps/1020kbps + 3UK MBB Via Samsung GS2 4157Kbps/1536Kbps
Standard User john2007
(legend) Fri 02-Mar-12 20:24:36
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Linux knows nothing about Grub. The GNU tools offer Grub as an option. They don't insist on its use.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 02-Mar-12 20:36:45
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Windows 2000 supported DirectX from version 7 to 9. It didn't come as part of the default install, but many games installed it; or you could download it from Microsoft. (There are a number of games I wouldn't have been able to play if that weren't true.) There was even DirectX support in NT 4.0, although I believe it wasn't supported on 4.5.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 03-Mar-12 13:48:52
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
in my view win2k was primarily coded for office use.

microsoft will have been aware home users were adopting it with higher ratings than millenium so probably based on that decided to release windows XP based on NT code.

vista is what win7 is based on, vista's poor take up was probably a combination of poor marketing, a too buggy early release, win XP's success and at the time was still a viable OS not showing its age fully yet, the fact it ran poorly on low end machines which were probably the majority of the market.

win7 had a different marketing approach with the consumer beta program as well as the very cheap launch price, win XP was starting to show its age eg. no TRIM support and AHCI was becoming popular as well which XP had no built in drivers for, and 64bit was also becoming very popular of which the 64bit edition of XP isnt very good as well as not been included in 32bit packages. It had significant improvements on low end hardware and microsoft tuned UAC to reduce prompts which was to stop a repeat of the bad UAC press.

Win7 still has its critics . eg. I am not a fan of the new taskbar and that quick launch was off by default, to me it was way less productive but luckily its easy to get quick launch back and 3rd party software got my taskbar even better than it was in XP.

Win8 however to me has too much GUI changes that make it inefficient to use with a mouse. Its probable it runs even better on low end systems as its now focused on phones and tablets but if the GUI is horrible to use it overides it. The question is can a 3rd party developer do things like bring the taskbar and start menu back to what I like, then win8 may become viable for me. Win8 success probably depends on how win8 phones sell, I think it will bomb on the desktop.
Standard User jchamier
(knowledge is power) Sun 04-Mar-12 17:17:53
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
Apologes for terminology misuse; I'm aware that Linux is just the kernel and GNU Linux is the tools + the kernel. I was using the "street" name Linux to refer to what comes with a distro smile

James - be* pro - on THFB - sync about 17.2mbps - BQM
Standard User MrTAToad2
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 04-Mar-12 19:25:07
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
I dont see why both Metro and the current standard desktop are needed - surely having both just adds unwanted complexity to the operating system and increases the chance of bugs.

Removing the start button does seem to be a silly idea - the new area to bring up the shutdown/search etc facilities is quite small and could cause people problems.

It did run well in VirtualBox though.

-----------------------------------------------
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Standard User john2007
(legend) Sun 04-Mar-12 19:52:04
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: MrTAToad2] [link to this post]
 
Depends how you like working. I understand the metro apps are either full screen or half screen. Wouldn't suit me as if I'm actually working rather than playing I'd have multiple windows open on screen.

Metro is not a user interface I'd want to have at work. Okay for devices with limited screen space though.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-12 07:26:43
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
An excellent article here from someone who has actually used Windows 8 for a while.
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Mon 05-Mar-12 10:16:10
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
An excellent article here from someone who has actually used Windows 8 for a while.
So basically the good thing about Windows 8 is that it isn't Windowed?

The idea of 'one screen, one app' dates back to the 1980s. Oh well - it proves one of my key points about life. What goes around comes around. Command Line Interfaces rebounded a couple of years ago in the technical world so I suppose GUIs were next.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Mon 05-Mar-12 10:23:10
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Is your computer made for Windows8?

Thought not, nuff said

No such thing as 'made for windows8'.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Mon 05-Mar-12 10:23:48
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
Fail for me. I tried installing it on my laptop but it rejected my Windows Vista key.

It does not use a Vista key, it as its own.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-12 10:48:56
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
Not sure that you read the whole article, but yes. One of the good things about Windows 8 is that it is not totally tied to the windowing concept (though it can be if you want). It may be heresy to say that perhaps multiple overlapping windows aren't the best solution in all situations but it is a heresy that I am prepared to embrace (in the same way that OS X has, albeit not in such a sophisticated manner).

If you think that the only difference between Windows and a CLI is the windowing feature then I think you probably need to do a little more research. IMO the main advance that Windows brought wasn't WIMPs but it was the unified device model. No longer did each program have to provide its own printer drivers, for example.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-12 12:13:28
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
It may be heresy to say that perhaps multiple overlapping windows aren't the best solution in all situations
But surely is with the typical size of monitors these days and even if you had a monitor the size of your wall it would be hard work moving your neck to flick focus from one document to another rather than just your eyes.

O2 Standard (8Mbps LLU)
Standard User DavidFinbarr
(freechataholic) Mon 05-Mar-12 12:45:31
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
An excellent article here from someone who has actually used Windows 8 for a while.


The OP did state only good for touch screens.
I see the article is about use on a touch screen tablet.

A bottle of white, a bottle of red
Perhaps a bottle of rosé instead.
Standard User john2007
(legend) Mon 05-Mar-12 13:09:49
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
It'll be fine for the normal consumer who just surfs the internet, looks at pictures and videos, and uses e-mail.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-12 13:12:24
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
But all at the same time?

O2 Standard (8Mbps LLU)
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-12 13:28:53
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
So? Perhaps you'd like to nit-pick This article too? wink
Standard User john2007
(legend) Mon 05-Mar-12 14:24:22
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps two at a time if their screen is big enough. The Windows 8 vision seems to be that a PC is just a big phone screen.

Edited by john2007 (Mon 05-Mar-12 16:53:57)

Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Mon 05-Mar-12 15:35:23
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
So? Perhaps you'd like to nit-pick This article too? wink
"The other big thing setting Metro apps apart from traditional Windows applications is that they're subject to a severely curtailed multitasking model—again, not dissimilar to that of the iPad. Typically, Metro applications can only actually run when they're visible. If they become hidden (by starting another application or switching to the desktop) then after a few seconds they'll be suspended. Start enough applications, and the suspended apps will get terminated altogether."

It gets worse. First we lose windowing and now we're losing multitasking?

Just call me Marty McBride, huh?

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-12 18:11:30
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
Has it not occured to you though that Metro apps are for tablet users and people who want metro.... And the desktop is there for people who don't want to use a Metro app?

There is no point speculating what will happen in Windows 9 or Windows 10 and whether Metro will take over the world, because that's not here yet, but instead focus on Windows 8.

It may be easier to think of the start screen as seperate to the Metro apps, because in some ways that is what it is. The start screen is used to launch both metro apps and standard Windows apps depending on what they are, and your settings. It is possible people who don't like metro apps are then automatically not liking the start screen.

Think of the metro apps as an option, yet the start screen as a requirement, if you get your head round the start screen, you aren't forced to use metro apps.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-12 18:25:34
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
Of course, you can use Metro Apps on a PC and some of them are quite useful there. But I expect them to be the sort of thing that you don't want running in the background. A weather forecast, an RSS viewer, a stock price tracker, for example; what's the point of them consuming CPU cycles when they're not displaying?
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-12 18:29:21
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, yes, I should have put emphasis on the "and people who want metro" in my post. Andrue does have a valid point of course, Metro is not great for multitasking in the way that desktop windows are, but as I said, that's what the desktop is there for wink

I think it's a highly clever and smart effort to make an OS suitable for all manners of hardware to run on, and I'll be purchasing a Windows 8 tablet in no time when they come on the market.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 05-Mar-12 18:48:52
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
I'll be purchasing a Windows 8 tablet in no time when they come on the market.
If IE doesn't crash every five minutes, and doesn't take you back to an older cached page, as Safari does on the iPad then I'll be first in line to trade in for a Windows 8 tablet. The main thing I want to use a tablet for and iOS can't handle it.
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Mon 05-Mar-12 19:31:05
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
Has it not occured to you though that Metro apps are for tablet users and people who want metro.... And the desktop is there for people who don't want to use a Metro app?
Yes but based on various blogs it's also occurred to me that Metro is where Microsoft see Windows going. I think they expect most users to be using Metro over time. Server administration seems to be being pushed back toward the command line (MS has dictated that all server apps must have command line support and there's the whole PowerShell support). So it seems to me that the traditional desktop is going to have a limited audience.

I normally try to avoid bashing 'the new thing' but that's on the basis that the new thing does everything the old did so I can carry on and just use the new features. What I'm seeing with Metro so far is that it's simply not adequate for me. No doubt as a software developer I'll have to code for it at some point but I think I'm going to be developing applications that I will never want to use - a bit like cross-platform development.

That's disturbing.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile

Edited by Andrue (Mon 05-Mar-12 19:32:46)

Standard User john2007
(legend) Mon 05-Mar-12 19:50:10
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
The Metro environment suits consumers who don't know how to make big bland desktop icons for applications which open full screen. The only point in Microsoft pushing this crippled approach seems to be to force software sales through their own store.
Standard User DavidFinbarr
(freechataholic) Tue 06-Mar-12 11:07:05
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
Wouldn't update Win 7 so had to do a clean install.

Once use to it think it will be ok, but I doubt I will be buying a copy,
as happy with Win 7.

RE the shut-down issue, took about 10 seconds for me to find it,
so not an problem for me.

A bottle of white, a bottle of red
Perhaps a bottle of rosé instead.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 06-Mar-12 12:17:54
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: DavidFinbarr] [link to this post]
 
I really don't understand the shut-down fuss. It's something that you do once or twice a day (or far less often for some people), so what does it matter if it's not a single-click? (Even though you can easily make it so.) It might be argued that it's good to make you think about it.

Now if it was something that you do all the time, like running a program, I could understand. But they've made that easier; just type the program name at the Start screen and away you go (as demonstrated by the person wanting to find Notepad and Wordpad). Or pin the item to the Start screen if you want to use a mouse or touch screen.
Standard User DavidFinbarr
(freechataholic) Tue 06-Mar-12 12:53:07
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
I hardly ever shut my PC down.
I put it to sleep by pressing F5, via a very simple shortcut.

A bottle of white, a bottle of red
Perhaps a bottle of rosé instead.
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Tue 06-Mar-12 13:36:35
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
I really don't understand the shut-down fuss. It's something that you do once or twice a day (or far less often for some people), so what does it matter if it's not a single-click? (Even though you can easily make it so.) It might be argued that it's good to make you think about it.
Nor do, I really. I either close the lid if it's a laptop or press the power button. I can understand the fuss over hot corners though. That doesn't sound clever particularly on multi monitor setup.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile

Edited by Andrue (Tue 06-Mar-12 13:37:34)

Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Tue 06-Mar-12 15:19:26
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
I'm playing with this properly at the moment and so far I'm actually pleasantly surprised. The flip from metro to desktop is nowhere near as ugly as some have suggested. It does feel like two different modes but actually seems quite workable. It didn't take me long to find what I needed (right clicking on the Metro screen then selecting All apps is a good start).

Rather to my surprise I can see myself using this. It'd be better if it wasn't running in a VM and I can't really install my developer tools to give it a proper workout but I think MS have done a good job here.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 06-Mar-12 19:11:11
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
there is a few reasons why its bad to suspend background apps.

any apps that stay connected to the internet such as ssh clients would drop connectivity whilst suspended, I often have ssh windows in the background collecting stats etc. for me. One might also have a background browser window auto refreshing a page for their own purposes. Another might have a benchmark tool running in the background, another may have a game minimised in the background, outlook is an app that would be in the background and alerting when emails arrive, the list goes on.

metro has its place but its not on powerful desktop machines.

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 06-Mar-12 19:11:26)

Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Tue 06-Mar-12 19:37:55
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
So install background apps on the desktop.



______________________________________________________________________________. __________________
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 07-Mar-12 22:25:53
Print Post

Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: shalom2005] [link to this post]
 
Windows 8 is a worthless pile of crud. It's more like a smart phone than a OS for a desktop.
Windows 8 will also have privacy concerns, as you will need to use the cloud with win 8.

Win XP and 7 are the best. Winodws 8 is the next vista, of should I say, Millenium Edition. wink
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Mar-12 07:06:26
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Windows 8 will also have privacy concerns, as you will need to use the cloud with win 8.
Untrue.
Standard User Andrue
(knowledge is power) Thu 08-Mar-12 07:49:58
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
Windows 8 will also have privacy concerns, as you will need to use the cloud with win 8.
Untrue.
Very. It has some nice integration with the Windows Live stuff (I liked the user creation process) but it's no more tied into 'the cloud' then any previous Windows version.

Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK

Just because he can smile
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 08-Mar-12 09:12:03
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Andrue] [link to this post]
 
The one thing that will determine success or failure will be the corporate enviroment.

Can windows 8 tempt businesses to upgrade from win XP or even older?

Currently nobody has said wether or not their current software actually works on it and to the people who say "give it some time to get used to it" business will want to be able their staff to use in within 5 mins of turning it on.

If they can't do that they won't be interested and they will happily keep with their old OS for another 10+ years
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Mar-12 09:34:21
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
they will happily keep with their old OS for another 10+ years
Having worked in a corporate environment, managing thousands of PCs, I can assure you that big businesses will not keep using an OS that is no longer supported by Microsoft.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Mar-12 13:22:02
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
they will happily keep with their old OS for another 10+ years
Having worked in a corporate environment, managing thousands of PCs, I can assure you that big businesses will not keep using an OS that is no longer supported by Microsoft.


I have experience of the opposite.

Generally micrososft will extend business support past consumer expiration remembering they get large fees of these companies.

I still know of businesses's using NT4 and windows 2000. I dont know of any at all using windows seven or vista. Decent takeup of windows 8 in my view is extremely unlikely on corporate desktops. Microsoft are vulnerable within the next decade, because their core market is not looking future proof. The consumer desktop market has limited growth and corporations are more about stability and cost vs keeping with the cutting edge. The reason IE6 has been around so long is for corporates as well.
Standard User anon1
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 08-Mar-12 18:54:54
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Not quite right. I know of one very large multi-national that has swapped from XP to Win7. They did leave out Vista.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-Mar-12 19:22:27
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
You would have to be huge for Windows to entertain support for NT4, for starters hardly anyone at Microsoft who works in support will have been there in the NT4 days.

2000 has "only" just gone out of support so not so difficult, and it's similiar to 2003 anyway.

To be honest why the hell would any organization want to use NT4? Using XP is bad enough when you compare to the huge management benefits you get with Windows 7.

Whatever, if they want to waste money on resources supporting old software then they can do.

The trouble is perhaps human issues, people who run the networks cant cope with change, don't know about better ROI of newer products, etc. Too much legacy software. List goes on, often a lot of reasons you see for not being able to upgrade were due to incompetence or bad decisions in the first place

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Thu 08-Mar-12 21:56:14
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I still know of businesses's using NT4 and windows 2000.
Then those are not going to be bothered by Windows 8.



______________________________________________________________________________. __________________
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 09-Mar-12 09:15:14
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
I know of come very large companies that still run some DOS and win95 computers due to legacy issues, in fact they have store cupboards of old PC's to use when the ones running the OS breaks.

As for why business does this, new OS's and the hardware to run them comes from capital expendure, where as legacy support comes from operational expendure.

There are then tax reasons, financing reasons and a whole lot of other reasons why they would spend more money from the Operaiontal side than the Capital.

I worked for a very large corporation indeed and we wanted a new bit of hardware, we got a 75% discount off the manufacturer, it would pay itself off in 6 months and have associated cost savings of millions over the lifetime of the product.

Could we get £25k out of capital expendure? Like hell we could.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 09:57:34
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Companies that run DOS or Windows 95 are hardly relevant when discussing whether Windows 8 will be a success in business. We already know that Windows 2000 and Windows XP were successes. There is no reason to suppose that Windows 8 won't be similarly successful (particularly when married with Server "8").

I have to say that you know some very peculiar companies. In most the cost of assets are written off after 5 years, or so, and replacement of written-off assets is a matter of course.

The thought of running unsupported Operating Systems in mission-critical applications would give a responsible CEO a heart attack.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 10:57:34
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
What? If you want a notepad icon on the Start screen just put it there.


You got to find it first. Not sure where MS is going with this, do they want us to go back to Dos days where we have to type in commands?

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 10:58:50
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
I must have imagined the copy I bought in Dixons.


I never said it was not in Dixons,, I said I never saw it, then again we have not had a dixons for years.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 10:59:46
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
Well, put an icon on the Desktop then.



No, no,no. i detest icons on my desktop, I like them somewhere which is easy to get at and the desktop is not easy to get at if you got something running on it.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 11:03:23
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: acpsd775] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
In the mail app you right click & show folders it shows all your Hotmail exactly like it dose on the web version with all your extra stuff

Ash



I found that, but it still only shows the last few emails and not all of them for some reason.

i presume at some point Yahoo and Google will bring out a Metro version of their service. I also expect someone will bring out a Metro app that can link to normal email services.

Surly any business worth their salt will not use Hotmail or any of the other free webmails.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 11:04:12
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
Depends how you like working. I understand the metro apps are either full screen or half screen. Wouldn't suit me as if I'm actually working rather than playing I'd have multiple windows open on screen.

Metro is not a user interface I'd want to have at work. Okay for devices with limited screen space though.


Full screen or quarter screen, I can't get them to stay at half screen.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 11:06:01
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
You got to find it first.
Not exactly difficult. Just right-click on the Start screen and select "All Applications". Then you'll get icons for everything on the Start Screen. Pin the ones that you want to the Start Screen and then reverse the process.
do they want us to go back to Dos days where we have to type in commands?
It seems to me that they are offering a choice of more ways to do a task. Choice is good.
Standard User john2007
(legend) Fri 09-Mar-12 11:18:06
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
If it's like gnome 3 just start typing when you're on the start page and it will show candidate applications. e.g. for notepad typing n o will bring up applications starting with no.
Standard User acpsd775
(experienced) Fri 09-Mar-12 11:25:58
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
In reply to a post by acpsd775:
In the mail app you right click & show folders it shows all your Hotmail exactly like it dose on the web version with all your extra stuff

Ash



I found that, but it still only shows the last few emails and not all of them for some reason.

i presume at some point Yahoo and Google will bring out a Metro version of their service. I also expect someone will bring out a Metro app that can link to normal email services.

Surly any business worth their salt will not use Hotmail or any of the other free webmails.


I suppose so but then again a lot of business do use exchange accounts which are supported but also most businesses will use office outlook of some kind and not windows live mail or metro mail either lol, its just a simple home user mail client my mum loves it because there's no extra things for her to push by accident lol which she seams to manage no matter what shes doing lol i dont have a preference either way all my email gos to my S2 so i hardly look at it on the computer anyway but that is me obviously other people will have different habits and as you say it would be nice if other company's do there own mail apps too smile

Ash

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 11:33:42
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Well then, <Windows>+Q will bring up the list of all installed applications. Or just press <Windows> and get back to the Start screen, then select the icon.

Edited by AEP (Fri 09-Mar-12 11:35:23)

Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 17:22:15
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
I know of come very large companies that still run some DOS and win95 computers due to legacy issues, in fact they have store cupboards of old PC's to use when the ones running the OS breaks.

That is just laughable though. It makes no sense to carry on doing this. They would probably save enough in energy and storage costs alone to make excuse for them to get with the times. Storage is very rarely in abudance in organizations. What a management headache that must be. Then again, they probably don't realise what they are missing, hence problem.

It seems very short sighted to me that things are still running DOS and Windows 95 because nobody has the balls to upgrade the system. Honestly, it's just a joke.

Perhaps the problem was their bespoke software was designed and coded by idiots meaning as soon as any sort of OS upgrade came out, it was so difficult to get the software to work on the new system, and/or issues to migrate from the system - well as said previously, they should have thought of that when they got people to develop software, and it's not really an excuse, because eventually it will need to be done.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 22:15:01
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
Perhaps the problem was their bespoke software was designed and coded by idiots meaning as soon as any sort of OS upgrade came out, it was so difficult to get the software to work on the new system
You mean the idiots who did not foresee MS changing the driver model for example leaving much older but still essential equipment behind?

O2 Standard (8Mbps LLU)
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 22:35:08
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
Bespoke hardware equipment is not an excuse the majority of businesses can use.

But we're still talking a decade even if that applies, you can't expect MS to keep it all the same to support old hardware.... can they not update equipment in 10-15 years? You get the exceptions and it might be worth having the odd legacy machine around, but they shouldn't be part of a domain, if a business has something core to their activity and widely used which relies on NT4 or DOS then they need to get their act together. Pay someone to write a new driver for it!

I don't see many cases where this is justified.

______________
Zen 8000 Active
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 22:43:31
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
You got to find it first.
Not exactly difficult. Just right-click on the Start screen and select "All Applications". Then you'll get icons for everything on the Start Screen. Pin the ones that you want to the Start Screen and then reverse the process.
do they want us to go back to Dos days where we have to type in commands?
It seems to me that they are offering a choice of more ways to do a task. Choice is good.


Maybe, or maybe it will just confuse some people.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 09-Mar-12 22:49:02
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
If it's like gnome 3 just start typing when you're on the start page and it will show candidate applications. e.g. for notepad typing n o will bring up applications starting with no.


i hate gnome3, which is why I stayed with Ubuntu 10, I noticed that Mint also gone for Gnome 3 as well.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User Kiggs
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 10-Mar-12 14:47:36
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Agreed. Gnome 3's usability is awful - even some of the graphical elements don't seem finished off.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 10-Mar-12 14:51:25
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Kiggs] [link to this post]
 
It's somewhat amusing discussing the failure of Gnome in a Windows 8 thread smile



______________________________________________________________________________. __________________
Standard User broadband66
(experienced) Sat 10-Mar-12 16:12:54
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
Why change just because something is old? If it is not broken then no need to fix!

Was Eclipse Home Option 1 & VM 2Mb
Now O2 standard
Standard User john2007
(legend) Sat 10-Mar-12 16:17:28
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Google for Gnome 3 Windows 8 and you'll understand.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 10-Mar-12 16:31:46
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: john2007] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by john2007:
Google for Gnome 3 Windows 8 and you'll understand.
You mean like this
It looks like Windows 8 and Gnome 3 are meant to be used on touch screens.
That doesn't explain the discussion of Gnome 3 in a Windows 8 thread - it should be in a Gnome 3 thread. It's even more irrelevant here.



______________________________________________________________________________. __________________

Edited by BatBoy (Sat 10-Mar-12 16:34:03)

Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Mar-12 20:56:55
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
You would have to be huge for Windows to entertain support for NT4, for starters hardly anyone at Microsoft who works in support will have been there in the NT4 days.

2000 has "only" just gone out of support so not so difficult, and it's similiar to 2003 anyway.

To be honest why the hell would any organization want to use NT4? Using XP is bad enough when you compare to the huge management benefits you get with Windows 7.

Whatever, if they want to waste money on resources supporting old software then they can do.

The trouble is perhaps human issues, people who run the networks cant cope with change, don't know about better ROI of newer products, etc. Too much legacy software. List goes on, often a lot of reasons you see for not being able to upgrade were due to incompetence or bad decisions in the first place


corporations dont care for things like fancy themes, multimedia updates etc. they also dont want new software that makes their old hardware need replacing. I also expect they not keen on retraining staff because microsoft decided to change the GUI.

just a few reasons, there be more also.

Also microsoft are still patching NT4/2000 to those who pay enough.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Mar-12 21:20:12
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by broadband66:
Why change just because something is old? If it is not broken then no need to fix!
Unfortunately the law of entropy applies to computer code in a world of changing requirements just as it does everywhere else.

O2 Standard (8Mbps LLU)
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Mar-12 22:05:23
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
corporations dont care for things like fancy themes, multimedia updates etc.
No, but they do care about security. And most sensible corporations don't "pay enough" just to support a few legacy systems that should have been updated years ago. Not if they want to remain in business.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Mar-12 22:06:23
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Does that mean you are still running MS-DOS 3.0? Or perhaps you have upgraded to Windows 3.0.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 10-Mar-12 22:44:15
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
corporations dont care for things like fancy themes, multimedia updates etc.

This is very naive of other benefits of upgrading to a more modern OS. DirectAccess for example is a fantastic technology which can solve many challenges. (unfortunately if you talk to your average network admin they probably dont know what this is - which goes a long way in explaining how some of these situations arise)

What about security and data protection requirements etc? I do know of cases where businesses are resorting to all sorts of antics with encryption -- when it would be probably just more sensible to upgrade to a Windows 7 Enterprise SKU, and reap the additional benefits in the process.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I also expect they not keen on retraining staff because microsoft decided to change the GUI.

Surely if they are running NT4 it is the opposite? What do all their employees have at home? Probably XP, Vista, or 7. One would hope.

Dealing with users and managers with respect to IT is a science in it's own right. A typical management example, say more than half of the workforce don't want to upgrade the system, so you stay with the current, the problem is the training department is still in existance and all new employees are trained in the old software, you can actually then run into the problem of company culture. Staff who want the new system and are probably the more productive ones are constantly in the minority, and nothing ever gets upgraded.

Eventually, someone needs to just tell the staff to deal with the change and stop with the moaning.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
Also microsoft are still patching NT4/2000 to those who pay enough.

Hmm, where have you heard this?

______________
Zen 8000 Active

Edited by Pipexer (Sat 10-Mar-12 23:42:59)

Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 11-Mar-12 10:04:11
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Kiggs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Kiggs:
Agreed. Gnome 3's usability is awful - even some of the graphical elements don't seem finished off.


That is why i stayed with a older version of ubuntu, saying that I can't use it at the moment the hard drive on my laptop don't seem to be reconised for some reason.

I been using windows 8 as my main Os for a couple of days now, not going to keep it, just having a look for a few weeks.

Had a few problems and still got some. Screen keeps blanking out for some reason, put new drivers in for graphics card as well from Nvidea.

Incredimail plays up I have to launch it via a desktop icon and need to change compatibility to Xp every time, which is strange as it works fine with windows 7.

My Iron browser mucked up and will not keep it's profile, using Commodo Dragon browser at the moment.



If I stay in the desktop I don't really notice much difference, I have as yet don't feel the need to use the metro interface apart from the computer first starts up.

So i think the metro interface on desktops and laptops is just another way to get people to sign up to Microsoft cloud, as of yet I have not found any use for it.

I made a image backup of my windows 7 Os so it is easy enough to get back to windows 7.

I would not buy Windows 8 as it don't offer anything extra for me.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User broadband66
(experienced) Sun 11-Mar-12 10:14:35
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
Yes! It still works.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1 & VM 2Mb
Now O2 standard
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 11-Mar-12 11:05:40
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
Fair enough. I'd be interested to know which browser you are using in MS-DOS to access TBB.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 11-Mar-12 14:39:15
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
Well this is where we come to the problem I think software developers have.

Developers will change things for the sake of change as they need to sell new software. To convince customers the software is different enough to warrant purchase then changing how it works is a common tactic, they often sell these changes as innotive and efficent when it may not be the case.

If you are a large business and your workforce is finely tuned to the software you using and the software does what you need of it then why would you upgrade it. Also as is often the case with large companies desktop machines are not even connected to the internet (intranet only) and also locked down with independent security software which goes some way to mitigating security risks.

Now as a casual home user, upgrading to the latest fancy OS may not mean much of a risk to you, oh I might have a driver/hardware issue no big deal I will just replace the hardware and do without for a few days, oh the gui has changed no big deal I will eventually get used to it.

Also gui changes isnt necessarily just getting used to it, some changes microsoft have done are less efficient full stop.

So microsoft and other developers can develop how they want, but customers dont have to follow what those developers say they can choose how they operate their own equipment how they want.

As for windows 8, I really cant see large companies mass replacing kit and retraining staff to use a touchscreen focused OS.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 11-Mar-12 16:22:00
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
As for windows 8, I really cant see large companies mass replacing kit and retraining staff to use a touchscreen focused OS.
Ah, now I appreciate your misunderstanding of the situation.
Standard User Moto
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 12-Mar-12 22:25:44
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Microsoft are going to clean up.

A common interface across phone, tablet and Pc. They are obviously listening to their customers who spend millions on getting disparate systems talking to each other.

laugh A friend surfing in laugh
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 13-Mar-12 09:12:04
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Moto] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Moto:
Microsoft are going to clean up.

A common interface across phone, tablet and Pc. They are obviously listening to their customers who spend millions on getting disparate systems talking to each other.


They will have to improve it, not the nicest thing to use to be honest, tried it as a main Os for a couple of days, but got fed up of the problems and mismatch. gone back to windows 7.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

On ADSL24 using C&W network.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 15-Mar-12 02:53:14
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Moto] [link to this post]
 
not really.

first of all they need to sell phones, as far as I am concerned my phone interface is android.

iphone and android are the 2 big sellers.

secondly my phone can communicate with my pc already via usb cable.

I have not heard any valid reasons why the fanboys of windows 8 think business's will use it.

which customers have asked for the desktop OS to be dumbed down and made harder to use? none that I know off, and certianly no business licence holders know off.

also AEP, despite what you say its very evident windows 8 is primarily designed for touchscreen control. Its interface is suboptimal for mouse use.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 15-Mar-12 07:23:53
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
AEP, despite what you say its very evident windows 8 is primarily designed for touchscreen control. Its interface is suboptimal for mouse use.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I find it just as easy to use with a mouse as 7 (mind, I've never been afraid of the keybord).

Businesses like to be able to control their computers centrally. Windows 8, together with Server "8", offers considerable enhancements in this restpect. If I were still specifying server and desktop OSs for a large corporation I would be looking to migrate to both versions of 8 within the next two years. I am sure that many IT managers in similar positions will feel the same. Server "8", in particular, is the killer application and its natural partner is 8 on the desktop. This is exactly the situation we faced when Windows 2000 was released.

As for the Mom and Pop shops - thet will probably stick with 95 or XP, whatever they are currently using.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 15-Mar-12 09:15:52
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AEP:
AEP, despite what you say its very evident windows 8 is primarily designed for touchscreen control. Its interface is suboptimal for mouse use.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I find it just as easy to use with a mouse as 7 (mind, I've never been afraid of the keybord).

Businesses like to be able to control their computers centrally. Windows 8, together with Server "8", offers considerable enhancements in this restpect. If I were still specifying server and desktop OSs for a large corporation I would be looking to migrate to both versions of 8 within the next two years. I am sure that many IT managers in similar positions will feel the same. Server "8", in particular, is the killer application and its natural partner is 8 on the desktop. This is exactly the situation we faced when Windows 2000 was released.

As for the Mom and Pop shops - thet will probably stick with 95 or XP, whatever they are currently using.


It doesn't matter what the IT departments or managers want, the money to pay for any investment project would have to be approved by the finance director and to get any money out of them for a capital investment there would have to be a huge compelling case as why you NEED to move to these systems, currently there would have to be significant cost savings and possibly even a buyback in 3 years or less.

But given that most businesses are not technical based and their systems are seen as something to get the job done I would expect most finance directors would refuse the money (and if not the finance directors the banks would most certainly would), times are exceedingly hard, companies are using the ecconomic climate to shed staff and large amounts of IT purchasing just do not fit in with most business plans at the moment.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 15-Mar-12 11:11:02
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps I worked in an unusual company, but there IT equipment was written off after, I think it was, 4 years and was then automatically a candidate for replacement. Budgets took account of this.

But then, I did work for one of the most successful companies in the publishing world; they are still expanding and acquiring those companies who didn't appreciate the importance of IT. It helped that, as in many of the foremost corporations, the Finance VP was also in overall charge of IT.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 15-Mar-12 12:41:14
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
It all depends on whether corporate IT is seen as an empire in its own right (which leads to things like the rolling three or four year upgrade treadmill, which always comes with massive costs but rarely comes with visible justified benefits) or whether IT is seen like any other aspect of the business, where costs and investments need to be justified with real benefits before they are authorised.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 15-Mar-12 13:10:39
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
All I can tell you is that it worked well in my company. IT was recognized as being an important component (nowadays, particularly in publishing, arguably the most important component) of business. Rather than getting involved in politics the setup allowed for upgrade of equipment without argument.

It is no coincidence that the vast majority of companies who suffer a serious failure of their computer systems go out of business within a year. Successful companies recognize the vital importance of IT; it is those successful companies that will determine the success, or otherwise, of Windows 8; the cost of the upgrade will be a minor factor for them.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The company that I worked for is now one of the largest and most successful in the sector. Less computer-literate publishers are now just a part of the Xxxxx empire. To make money you have to invest in the infrastructure.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 15-Mar-12 13:51:19
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Re: Windows 8 Will Be A Failure Like Vista (Who Agrees?)


[re: AEP] [link to this post]
 
Not disagreeing at all with the specifics wrt publishing. I have some limited+distant experience as a supplier to the CTP side of print+publishing, where being best and fastest had obvious advantages, and I assume that technology is equally important in some other parts of publishing.

I also know many areas of business where there is no need for the latest greatest desktop company-wide, where the time+money spent on repeated company wide rollouts is largely money wasted. It helps the IT Director think he's important because his budget is ever growing, but actually his unsupervised spending can sometimes be a drag on the business at large. I've seen plenty of those.

The Vista disaster, and the number of companies consequently still running XP, has helped many companies understand that they do not necessarily have to keep up to date, and that there are actually risks as well as inevitable costs and potential benefits in the routine upgrade rollout philosophy.

To make money you have to invest in the infrastructure.


Indeed so. But whether the upgrade cycle is an investment or a waste of money is a company-specific decision that needs to be actively considered not just passively accepted "because everyone else does it and Dell offered us a good deal"

the vast majority of companies who suffer a serious failure of their computer systems go out of business within a year


True, but a different discussion to this. It indicates that planning is essential; it does not support the case for routine unnecessary upgrades.
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