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Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 25-Oct-12 13:31:16
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Re: Win7 or Win8


[re: Desmond] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Desmond:
The fact that you are now reduced to criticising OS X Lion for having a shut down menu item in the same place since OS X was first released (and still is in Mountain Lion) or havng an easily hideable dock taking up screen space when the thread is about comparing Windows 7 to 8 goes to show that you have nothing poisitive to say about WIndows 8 at all.

As I have said; time will tell. Personally, I expect Mr Balmer to be speding more time with his family before Easter. laugh

No, you missed my sarcasm/point entirely. The shutdown button is different in Mac OS than it is to Windows, it is not in the usual place, therefore it is rubbish. You are applying the same mentality to the fact the shutdown button is in a different place in on Windows version compared to another.

You cannot rubbish something just because it has moved place or changed - that was my point.

Zen 8000 Pro
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 25-Oct-12 13:41:45
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Re: Win7 or Win8


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
Moving your mouse into one of the RHS corners, selecting power, and then shut down, is no bigger challenge than pressing Start > Shut Down!

If that is too much agro, then why not create a desktop shortcut for Shutdown, Restart and Logoff and pin it to the Task Bar?
Standard User pmb00cs
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 25-Oct-12 13:43:09
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Re: Win7 or Win8


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
Ever supported end users through a software migration?


Changes to the location of commands do cause disruption, and a major headache for those people that have to support the end users.

Windows is used on many corporate systems, and these changes, as trivial as they may be to you, or I, or Desmond, will cause major problems for the support departments of any company that chooses too (or is forced too) upgrade to windows 8. So yes the fact that the shutdown command has been moved arbitrarily is a perfectly valid criticism. People are creatures of habit and routine, and arbitrarily breaking someone's routine will upset them. You can mock that windows 8 is easy enough to use, so complainers must be simple, but it is a major, and jarring, change that requires re-learning the interface practically from scratch, for little, if any, benefit, and zero perceived benefit. Just because you can use it, does not change any of this, or make the criticism of these changes any less valid.

happily chugging along on plusnet and Virginmedia (yes I am greedy)
My web server


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Standard User Malwaremike
(member) Thu 25-Oct-12 15:42:51
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Re: Win7 or Win8


[re: pmb00cs] [link to this post]
 
As a non-techie I would support this view. I am impressed by the erudition shown on this forum, where I have been grateful for the help always gladly given. I can understand that certain changes may have considerable technical significance and interest to the experts but this is not relevant to simple folk like me -- or rather it should not be.

Too often I have the impression that changes are made for the sake of making changes, Firefox being my favourite example. Why can't they leave a perfectly good product alone? Many if not most users take time to become familiar with new programmes. If they must make tech upgrades, then at least retain the interface which most of us know.
Standard User AEP
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 25-Oct-12 16:04:33
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Re: Win7 or Win8


[re: Malwaremike] [link to this post]
 
If they must make tech upgrades, then at least retain the interface which most of us know.
A tempting option, but would it really be for the best?

When I started with computers the height of interface sophistication was Wordstar using <ctrl>-key combinations to achieve commands. That interface changed, and it caused my users a bit of trouble to start with when they had to use windows and mice, but they very soon got used to it. I've had a lot of experience training users to use new interfaces and it's really not that difficult - most people have more intelligence than they are sometimes credited with.

Stagnation is all very well but that way we get no progress. The designers don't always get it right, but it's worth trying new paradigms rather than just sticking to what we currently know.
Standard User benbird7
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 25-Oct-12 16:05:34
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Windows 8 software launch tonight Microsofts biggest gamble.


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
'The result is something that is part modern-day tablet, part old-fashioned corporate Windows, and I'm not sure it truly succeeds at either,' said Jason Jenkins of CNET UK.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-22229...

Ben

Edited by benbird7 (Thu 25-Oct-12 16:07:02)

Standard User Deadbeat
(knowledge is power) Thu 25-Oct-12 16:15:00
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Re: Win7 or Win8


[re: Malwaremike] [link to this post]
 
Erudition? Haven't a clue what that means. wink
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 25-Oct-12 16:50:06
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Re: Win7 or Win8


[re: pmb00cs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by pmb00cs:
Ever supported end users through a software migration?

Unfortunately yes, and the common theme is not that people are not very IT-savvy, it is just that they are generally stupid and don't read or apply logic to anything.
In reply to a post by pmb00cs:
Changes to the location of commands do cause disruption, and a major headache for those people that have to support the end users.

You'd only need an A4 sheet of paper showing them where the new shutdown and log off buttons are for Windows 8, if they can't cope with that minor change then they probably aren't very good at the other jobs they are doing on the computer either.

If people seriously can't cope with rolling the mouse into the corner, upwards to settings, then the power button, just tell them to press ctrl+alt+del and select power instead. <- I summed that up within a sentence, it needs no more explanation. If users cant follow this then god help them trying to do anything else on the computer, and god help the business they work for.

Not rocket science.

It proves a point, users will moan about anything, for the past 15 years we have had the sarcastic "why do you have to press start to shut down" comments, and then when they change that people moan its moved!

I should state again, I have been using Windows 8 on my main desktop for 2 months now and I do not have a single criticism against it that I didn't have with Windows 7. All this nonsense being printed in the media about how its a gamble and full of bugs really is nothing but rubbish - the OS is perfectly fine.

Zen 8000 Pro

Edited by Pipexer (Thu 25-Oct-12 16:53:15)

Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 25-Oct-12 16:57:09
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Re: Win7 or Win8


[re: pmb00cs] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by pmb00cs:
Windows is used on many corporate systems, and these changes, as trivial as they may be to you, or I, or Desmond, will cause major problems for the support departments of any company that chooses too (or is forced too) upgrade to windows 8. So yes the fact that the shutdown command has been moved arbitrarily is a perfectly valid criticism. People are creatures of habit and routine, and arbitrarily breaking someone's routine will upset them. You can mock that windows 8 is easy enough to use, so complainers must be simple, but it is a major, and jarring, change that requires re-learning the interface practically from scratch, for little, if any, benefit, and zero perceived benefit. Just because you can use it, does not change any of this, or make the criticism of these changes any less valid.

How do you need to re-learn the interface from scratch? That is total nonsense!

You need to re-learn the start menu, and you need to learn to use the charms, takes about 1 hour to fully master it or a week or so of learning it as you go along, this is not a big price to pay to try something new.

Zen 8000 Pro
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 25-Oct-12 20:32:08
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Re: Win7 or Win8


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
You obviously don't use a computer in your workplace 8 hours every day. The wimp environment has been extremely damaging to productivity, it's not something to be applauded.



I use the computer in my workplace as little as possible, A couple of hours a week if that in total.

the software is awful, but that is a different thing.
i can't see how the wimp system have been extremely damaging to productivity, If we did not have the wimp system then the software at work would be more of a pain to use.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

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