Whose Windows 8 is it Anyway?

I daresay this has been discussed here somewhere, but I cannot find the wood for the trees.

Just bought a new lappy, HP Pavilion Touchsmart 15-n022sa, after my previous 6-year old one just broke. It comes installed with Windows 8 64bit. I am still getting to grips with this and am unfamiliar with it in any detail. It starts up with the Start Screen, an unhierarchical screen of tiles leading to apps (Is that what they call Metro?). Like many others, I prefer to use the standard Windows Desktop with a hierarchical Start Menu.

I can find the Desktop but the only menus I see is a hierarchical Desktop menu from the R of Taskbar, which seems to contain all the items currently on Desktop + some standard folders like Control Panel & Network. Also an unhierarchical menu from R-clicking on Bottom L 'button' of screen. This just seems to contain some standard Windows utilities, but no real programs (applications not apps) like IE. Where is this obtained from and how to alter it?

Which Windows is it?

Instead of starting on the Start Screen, I would like to start directly on the Desktop. The thin 'Windows Basics' pamphlet that HP supplies says 'Open to Desktop instead of Start Screen (select models only)' which involves the Properties of the Taskbar and a Navigation tab that I don't have. This makes me wonder whether I have bought the right version of Win 8 as I know that the facility cannot be provided just by the hardware.

Does it mean I should have bought a PC with Win 8 Pro? Or is it hinting that I need Win 8.1?

Where is Windows 8.1?

Something said I can get Win 8.1 free from the Store, but when I go there I can't find it. M/S site says I can download it free but provides no Download button I can find.

Classic Start Menu

Someone here once said I can download the classic Start Menu. Anyone know from where?

Search Files

How can you search all files by filename or part? The Search Files on Start Screen only seems to find titles of apps. I suppose I can always do a CLI DIR wildcard.

I expect I'll come up with more Qs as I delve deeper

Windows 8.1 is available from the Windows Store - but you need to have an online user account (Settings -> Change PC Settings -> Accounts), and you may need to sign up for it...

Even with Windows 8.0, you should have a Desktop graphic (that says "Desktop") in Metro - clicking on that will let you use the standard desktop, after which you can right-click on the task bar, select properties and go into system to check your version.

If you move the mouse to the bottom right, a bar shoul slide in, on which the top item is "Search" - you can put in anything there, and it should find what you want, although usually only in Windows 8.1 - the Windows 8.0 version wasn't terribly good.

In reply to a post by MrTAToad2:

Windows 8.1 is available from the Windows Store - but you need to have an online user account

I originally set it up with my Online Microsoft (Hotmail) a/c but I didn't think that was a good idea and have since switched it to a local a/c.

Are you saying that you can only use the full Store if you are logged into Win 8 with your Online Microsoft a/c? Can't you just log into Win 8 with a local a/c but still possess an Online Microsoft a/c which you can log in to online?

My Taskbar Properties does not have a 'System' but I've already checked the CP System for my version and it is as I said.

Just to add, we bought an HP Pavilion recently which only had 8 on. Like you there was no sign of 8.1 in the store. Only after we had run windows update to patch 8 completely did 8.1 become available in the store.

Hope this helps

Mark

You can use the store by logging in each time if you don't want your computer connect permanently to MS servers. I updated my windows 8 to 8.1 via a ISO and did not use the store at all, but that is a bit complex.

I don't blame you for going back to local account, I am on a local one as well, but then I don't use the store or MS skydrive. I know a couple of people who have gone back to windows 8 because of the way skydrive works on windows 8.1

8.1 will allow you to boot to desktop, but you still will not have the start menu, if you want a start menu you need something like classic shell.

I think most of your queries have already been answered, I have 8.1 and it boots to the metro screen, from which I have removed most of the extraneous junk that comes with a new computer.

As I do not have a touch screen I have found that some good old shortcut keys are absolutely invaluable when using Win 8. Specifically:

ALT +F4 to close any programme
WIN + S start menu
WIN + D Desktop

I rather like the facility when on the start screen of just being able to type a program name particularly for control panel.

I use Classic shell
http://www.classicshell.net/

It's very customizable so does what I want from it.

In reply to a post by marko3:

Just to add, we bought an HP Pavilion recently which only had 8 on. Like you there was no sign of 8.1 in the store. Only after we had run windows update to patch 8 completely did 8.1 become available in the store.

Hope this helps

Mark

Yes, I was told by my store that I needed to update my Brand-New HP Envy to 8.1, but it wouldn't let me until after I had run quite a few 8 updates!

Then I had to do the 8.1 updates as well!!

In reply to a post by MrTAToad2:

Windows 8.1 is available from the Windows Store - but you need to have an online user account (Settings -> Change PC Settings -> Accounts), and you may need to sign up for it...

You don't have to have an online account at all . It will appear in the Store regardless of if you have an online account or not. Like others have said, once you have the neccessary Windows Updates.

On first boot after the OOBE Windows will start a background Windows Update which should then kick in at the next maintenance schedule, so even if you left things on automatic you would find the computer would reboot itsself automatically and get itsself updated, and then if you don't visit the store for some time, a banner will appear at bootup with an option to go to the Windows store. Again all can be performed from a local account.

Edited by Pipexer (Fri 17-Jan-14 20:55:52)

I can't remember what has changed between 8 and 8.1. With 8.1 if you right-click IE on the Metro start menu you get a menu bar at the bottom left that allows you to pin it to the taskbar. For me that pins the desktop version there, but I don't think it did on 8. I had to do something slightly different.

At the moment I can't find how I got Windows Explorer there, but I have it on the taskbar alongside a CLI button.

I am gradually learning a bit about Win 8.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I can't remember what has changed between 8 and 8.1. With 8.1 if you right-click IE on the Metro start menu you get a menu bar at the bottom left that allows you to pin it to the taskbar. For me that pins the desktop version there, but I don't think it did on 8. I had to do something slightly different.

It was/is the same with Win 8 and I see no other way to do it, but if I remember rightly it was already pinned to taskbar upon initialisation.

All applications currently pinned to taskbar will show 'Unpin from taskbar' when you do that R-click on their Start Screen tile (or title in 'All Apps' mode) and all applications capable of being pinned to taskbar will show 'Pin to taskbar' when you do that R-click on their Start Screen tile.

'CLI button'? You mean a Command Prompt? That's also done by 'Pin to taskbar' on it while in 'All Apps' mode, isn't it?

I find the task bar a bit confusing. There is no separation between the pinned programs that you may not be even using and the currently running ones that were initiated from the Desktop including any File Explorers that were left running from last time.

The task bar so far as I'm concerned is as it has been for the last several versions of Windows. On initial Windows setup,as far as I remember it was empty, both on this and my HP.

By "Desktop" you do mean the legacy type screen? Don't forget the behaviour of the taskbar has always been configurable - I've never left it at defaults.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

On initial Windows setup,as far as I remember it was empty, both on this and my HP.

I presume you are talking here about Win 8 setup? On my HP it has started with IE, Cyberlink YouCam 5, Cyberlink Media Suite & HP Utility Center w/out me doing anything and knowing how HP package their PCs at any point of time all HP PCs sold about the same time will be much the same.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

By "Desktop" you do mean the legacy type screen?

Dunno what legacy you have inherited, but I simply mean the normal Win Desktop that has been around since at least W95 and is the desktop that Win 8 calls the Desktop and is got by clicking the Desktop tile on the Start Screen or pointing bottom L.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Don't forget the behaviour of the taskbar has always been configurable

Configurable in what way? I only remember how much each section takes up and which toolbars to show . Proir to Win 8 it contained at least 3 sections:

• On L: Quick Start buttons - I haven't found this yet on Win 8 but could well believe that's what the pinned apps stand for.
• Most of Centre: Currently running foregrond programs - as they are for Win 8
• On R: System Tray/Notification Area - just as Win 8

Thought you needed an account to access the Windows Store - after all, if you dont have one, how can you re-download purchased items ?

Give them your credit card details at the time of the purchase just like any other online retailer. After all, an MS a/c contains no payment info.

Post deleted by MrTAToad2

In reply to a post by MrTAToad2:

Thought you needed an account to access the Windows Store - after all, if you dont have one, how can you re-download purchased items ?

Nope, you need an account to download and install new apps from the store, the existing apps installed that comes with Windows as well as the Windows 8.1 upgrade is accessible without an account.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

8.1 will allow you to boot to desktop

Just to clarify what the HP pamphlet was getting at, the 8.1 Taskbar Properties do contain a Navigation tab which allows you to configure this?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

With 8.1 if you right-click IE on the Metro start menu you get a menu bar at the bottom left that allows you to pin it to the taskbar. For me that pins the desktop version there, but I don't think it did on 8. I had to do something slightly different.

There may have been some confusion about this on Win 8. I found that initially with raw Win 8 as issued, IE was already pinned to taskbar. However, after the 1st large set of Windows Updates were performed, they unpinned IE from the taskbar and suggested that you could pin it yourself, because 1 of the updates was the EEC-mandated 'Browser Choice' .

LOL.

But you managed to pin the desktop version of IE, not the Metro version?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

But you managed to pin the desktop version of IE, not the Metro version?

As far as I know! (I'm new to this!) If you 'Pin to taskbar' the Metro tile you end up with a normal IE, which identifies itself a 'IE10', running on the Desktop when you click on it from the Taskbar. When you click on the IE Metro Tile you just get an untabbed full-screen IE.

Basically it boils down to where you click it from; click on the Metro Tile and you get the Metro version; click on the Taskbar icon and you get the proper version. Not just for IE but for all apps that are capable of being 'Pinned to Taskbar'.

How do you see the diff?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 19-Jan-14 01:31:30)

Go into Internet Options and change it to "always open IE on the desktop" - might make things easier!

Where in Internet Options? Think I see what you are getting at but just can't find it.

Tools > internet options > Programs > setting is at the top.

Once configured regardless of where clicking IE icon, it will open in the desktop.

Ah, thanks! Didn't associate 'Open IE Tiles on Desktop' with that .

Now I realise what Roberto meant by 'But you managed to pin the desktop version of IE, not the Metro version?' which puzzled me. He meant that I managed to run the desktop version of IE, not the Metro version when clicking the IE tile. At least I hope he did.

EDIT: Presumably IE is the only app capable of pinning to taskbar that can do this, as it needs a special option in the app's settings?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 19-Jan-14 14:54:28)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

EDIT: Presumably IE is the only app capable of pinning to taskbar that can do this, as it needs a special option in the app's settings?

Yes, but off top of my head there is no other app which shares the same tile which has metro and desktop equivalents IIRC anyway? Any others would have different names. Let's take calculator for example, the metro calculator is a totally different tile to the desktop calculator, so you would simply just pin the desktop version tile to the start menu. Same with control panel, etc.

Also just to rule out any confusion I do presume you mean pin to start and not pin to taskbar. If you open IE from the pinned taskbar shortcut, it will always open in the desktop regardless of the setting because you are in the desktop. This setting affects tiles on the start screen.

I don't think you are right there. Unless it has changed since 8. I'm pretty sure when I pinned IE to the taskbar from the Metro screen, clicking it in the taskbar opened the Metro IE.

Hmm, I've never observed that happening.

Post deleted by XRaySpeX

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

clicking it in the taskbar opened the Metro IE.

No, clicking IE from the taskbar always opens it in normal desktop mode. Did you mean to say 'clicking it on Start Screen opened the Metro IE'? It does until you set the 'Open IE Tiles on Desktop' option. Have you set that option?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 19-Jan-14 18:36:01)

Your post is confusing, but what I mean is that only conventional desktop programs have the ability to be pinned to the taskbar. You can't pin a metro app to the taskbar. IE is *somewhat* of an exception but actually, not really, because IE metro and IE desktop are effectively two different programs that just share some special interaction between each other. MSDN would cover it more in detail but that's the general idea. When you configure that option in internet options it is just altering what version of IE the start menu is launched.

Really! I took trouble to spell it all out and thought I was generalising from the IE instance, but

In reply to a post by Pipexer:

You can't pin a metro app to the taskbar

Indeed! I had noticed a few (2) other tiles (HP apps) that had 'Pin to taskbar' options and, w/out trying them out, assumed that they would run Metro when clicked, but in fact they run on Desktop.

So my query regarding other 'Pin to taskbar' capable apps is pointless as there just aren't any. IE is the sole survivor!

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I don't blame you for going back to local account, I am on a local one as well

I know it's a small thing, but when you are just a local a/c your picture is just a silhouette. Where are all the account pictures gone? They should be in \ProgramData\Microsoft\User Account Pictures but all the pix there are outlines. Can't find any in Store, only wallpapers. Any suggestions?

NM: I've transferred some from XP & Vista.

It seems underhand of MS to only supply them for MS a/c logins!

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 20-Jan-14 03:19:51)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

8.1 will allow you to boot to desktop

Just to clarify what the HP pamphlet was getting at, the 8.1 Taskbar Properties do contain a Navigation tab which allows you to configure this?

i had to have a look as I don't really use windows a lot and when I do i use Start is back. Here is avideo from you tube to show you how to boot to desktop and yes it is in the taskbar properties.

sound is a bit quiet ont he video, so you may need to turn volume up.

sorry for a bit of a delay in answering.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I don't blame you for going back to local account, I am on a local one as well

I know it's a small thing, but when you are just a local a/c your picture is just a silhouette. Where are all the account pictures gone? They should be in \ProgramData\Microsoft\User Account Pictures but all the pix there are outlines. Can't find any in Store, only wallpapers. Any suggestions?

NM: I've transferred some from XP & Vista.

It seems underhand of MS to only supply them for MS a/c logins!

i never noticed, i don't bother with account pictures, .

Thanks very much! That puts my mind at rest that I had not bought a PC with the wrong vers of Win 8 and that all the HP pamphlet meant by '(select models only)' was those with Win 8.1 pre-installed.

As at the mo' HP sells its Windows laptops about half & half 8 or 8.1, the pamphlet must be written to cover them all.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Thanks very much! That puts my mind at rest that I had not bought a PC with the wrong vers of Win 8 and that all the HP pamphlet meant by '(select models only)' was those with Win 8.1 pre-installed.

As at the mo' HP sells its Windows laptops about half & half 8 or 8.1, the pamphlet must be written to cover them all.

Now I see what you mean. w8 can be updated to 8.1 anyway.

The boot to desktop in 8.1 is just Microsoft trying to please people, just like the start button. they still ignored people about a start menu, still there are some good start menus out there and most are free.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

The boot to desktop in 8.1 is just Microsoft trying to please people[snip]

It's pleased me for sure. I was using Task Scheduler to boot to my desktop prior to updating to 8.1 but this is much better.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

still there are some good start menus out there and most are free.

Any good recommendations? And does MS offer one? I suppose not as they removed it from their mainline OS. Looked on their d/load site, which does offer much more meaty apps than the MS Store, and on the Store itself, but only found a few by unknown publishers.

Well, I've finally upgraded to 8.1 after the backlog of updates for Win 8. It is just as you all here have said and advised, for which I thank you all .

Indeed, once I got familiar with it, I quite like 8.1 once it can login directly to the desktop; it is a very slick OS aided by my faster PC than I have had before. The only thing missing is a proper desktop start menu. In fact, the All Apps Metro screen is its Start Menu, being the only interface provided to access all the desktop applications on the PC. and there seems to be no provided official facility to construct a Start Menu on the desktop.

Having realised that, I have found a way to construct my own Start Menu on the desktop. I discovered where the All Apps menu is stored (\Program Data\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu ) and copied that to the standard location for storing Start Menus (\Users\user\Start Menu) for all my users. Then I added a Toolbar to my taskbar pointing at that place. Et voila, a Start Menu rising out the taskbar . Of course, it won't auto update as apps are installed/removed . But it's early days!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

still there are some good start menus out there and most are free.

Any good recommendations? And does MS offer one? I suppose not as they removed it from their mainline OS. Looked on their d/load site, which does offer much more meaty apps than the MS Store, and on the Store itself, but only found a few by unknown publishers.

One which many people use is classic start which is free or Classic shellis another one. i usestart is back, but it is not free. but it is only $3.

No chance of Ms putting a start menu out there, they want us to use the Metro UI and buy their apps. I know it is being said that the next version of windows will have a start menu, but I don't think MS have made that official.

Classic Start (as linked to by zyborg47) is the program that I use & have found it very effective!

Do you have more than 1 user on your PC? Do they all get the Classic Start 8 button on L of taskbar?

I've installed it but only I can see its button & menu. Yet it is invoked in Registry at [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run] the usual place for All Users start-ups.

I tried out Classic Start 8 but I couldn't get it to show up under any of my other users, altho' it was invoked from the Registry [Run]s for all users. Also I didn't like the way its start menu sacrificed some useful links like 'Run' for some seemingly advertising links like 'Backup' & 'Protection', and that it provided no support other than a few obvious FAQs.

So now I've gone over to Classic Shell. It provides a highly customizable Start Menu together with ability to tailor File Explorer & IE. It also supports full individual multi-user functionality, whereby diff users may have diff Start Menus based around an All Users Start Menu as did previous versions of Windows prior to Win8. I particularly like that it has its own forum where you can get help & support. I'm still learning all its bells & whistles but I like it so far.

+1 for Classic Shell.