XP PROBLEMS

Rather unusual problem.

Helping neighbour with elderly computer. Has a reasonable spec. for XP. ASUS M.B.

Intel Core 2 2.1 GHz CPU 2 GB RAM.

Boots up normal, but looks and is best described as if only half the system is functioning. No icons on desktop, all the built in games are ok, Chrome browser will not load, Control panel appears. No network connections. Now the odd behaviour completely changes after approx 10-15 mins. After this time there is some H/D activity and the system is then fully operational.

I have noticed that booting into SAFEMODE everything is functioning immediately.

And to further add to my confusion, I fitted a spare H/D and installed XP. this clean copy also displays similar behaviour.

I tried a new power supply, this made no difference.

Any help with my confusion will be very much appreciated.

Graphics driver

Sounds like malware, something is getting in the way of the startup process, timing out, and then after the 10-15 minutes explorer is allowed to start. Go into task manager as soon as it boots, try killing explorer.exe process if you see it, then, do file > run > explorer.exe and see if it starts up.

Would try running malwarebytes
superantispyware
run a proper scan with whatever AV product is installed - if not, use Sophos rescue scanner or something.

If you can get into control panel, see if anything has been installed recently, try removing it.

Could also try system restore.

In reply to a post by Brunel:

And to further add to my confusion, I fitted a spare H/D and installed XP. this clean copy also displays similar behaviour.

In that case, no idea!

I will try this. It appears to be running ok I can change resolution etc.

If something like an old HP printer that is no longer attached and switched on is involved that can cause exactly this, though I would expect that specific example to have caused trouble long ago. I have used many expletives in the past about it.

I'm not quite sure how a printer that is not connected to a computer can cause problems.

The mind boggles.

If you've installed XP on another another HD and the problem is the same then it's not a software issue, but hardware. If it's OK in Safe Mode then I would be pretty sure its a graphics card fault, as in Safe Mode it just displays at basic VGA resolution. As soon as you start in normal mode and XP tries to ramp up the resolution the graphics card can't cope. Just try another graphics card.

Download CCleaner, boot into safemode and install it. It will give you the opportunity to clean out your system, but more importantly you can see a list of startup programs. I suggest you take a screendump or list them (by Private Message if that's more comfortable).

Generally if a system was working fine, some new program or browser add-on will be the culprit, especially anything new claiming that your system is infected etc. Get the startup list. Generally speaking, less than 50% of the startup programs and services on a (non-optimsed) system is actually needed.

If you're unfamiliar with CCleaner, search this forums for other examples, or ask others to recommend it.

Don't think so as he has rebuilt XP on a new hard disk and the problem is the same. The only vague possibility on the original build in your scenario is residue junk software or drivers that HP install are affecting XP on startup. However the guy has eliminated that possibility. Unless the PC has developed AI and can sense an HP printer in the neighbourhood.!!!

If you read the post he's rebuilt XP on a another hard disk and the problem remains. So NOT software of any kind.

The HP-installed software (remember I said "old") would keep the Windows XP and 7 loading systems completely hamstrung for many minutes.

With the printer connected and on the system would be up and ready to roll within a few minutes. Off/disconnected and it was always 30-35 minutes. Connecting and switching on the printer once the wait had started had no effect.

On my current machine, Win 8 >> 8.1 this effect is absent. Booting is always fairly quick - with the identical printer drivers installed.

Amusingly, the printer involved, an HP PSC 1610 All-in-One died on me last week. Over the weekend I completely removed the 1610 from each of those three systems before setting up the new one. (Printers screen/Uninstall all drivers and related programs/thorough cleanup of directories).

The XP and Win 7 machines now magically boot in 2-3 minutes independent of the printer.

Installed the drivers for the replacement HP Envy 4500 and it made no difference to the boot times.

One happy bunny.

In reply to a post by rogerfp:

If you read the post he's rebuilt XP on a another hard disk and the problem remains. So NOT software of any kind.

I agree. Assuming it was done right, then this is not a software problem.

Two HDDs showing identical behaviour? Sounds like software to me, or very unlucky hardware.

It might be the BIOS settings are not set properly and are slowing the IDE / AHCI (safemode wouldn't put so much demand on the drive).

No, no, no. On what planet can it be software after a rebuild on a second hard disk.
BIOS settings - no way.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Feb-15 22:58:03)

Ok...two hard drives with the same problem?

What's causing it?

That effectively rules out the harddrives.

Don't you read all the earlier comments before posting yours? If you read my original post, it's a hardware fault, probably a faulty graphics card.

Your nippiness isn't required to solve the problem. Happy to be wrong if the OP gets a solution.

Hope you are right on the gfx. It would be a shame if it was the motherboard or some other piece of hardware. Yes I read the posts. I'm the type that likes to kick ideas around to come to the most likely solution, rather than the type that insists my idea can only be the correct one. I did miss the 2nd HDD setup on the OP, so that threw me.

It could be power to gfx...so the obvious step is to test the card elsewhere, or a new card in the system.

There is no graphics card, using the M/B built in graphics.

Thanks for all your replies so far. The confusion here is a little light relief to this stupid fault.

A problem shared .....etc.

I have used C Cleaner and stopped all the programs in startup.

Next I will attempt to re install the S3 graphic driver.

No HP printer involved, just a LEXMARK all in one.

It depends if the rebuild is only the OS and browser.

It would cost nothing to make sure the printer is connected wired and switched on before the computer. That's if the printer drivers have been installed on the new disc. My problem may not be restricted to HP printers.

If the printer drivers haven't been installed then of course it isn't those!

A similar but less noticeable iffiness arises with USB Linksys wireless dongles, the one with a metre or so of cable from the USP plug to the kit itself. Both on my machine at the time and a neighbour's I gave it to that added a few minutes to the startup time. But I think it was only the wireless availability that was the issue, not the whole Windows loading.

Edit - the fact that Safe Mode is quick points to drivers of something that aren't loaded for it. What happens with Safe Mode with Networking?

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 25-Feb-15 00:36:02)

Bit confused, are you saying that the new build on another hard disk still has the problem the first time Windows starts up once the installation is complete? If so I assume that the new build is a "clean, vanilla" installation (not an image of the 1st hard disk) with just XP and no other 3rd party software, drivers, AntiVirus or even an internet connection and nothing is plugged in other than monitor, mouse and keyboard. If it is the same does XP install its own driver for the graphics card?, if so have you tried setting it at the lowest possible resolution available and turned off Hardware Acceleration for the video card in the display settings?
Don't understand why you need to run CCleaner on this as there should be nothing running or installed other than Windows services.
Just because the graphics is on the motherboard still doesn't rule it out. It's still a graphics card. If you plug in another graphics card into PC, the new one will take precedence over the onboard. If that fixes it then you can go back to the original hard disk and save yourself a lot of time installing everything else back.

Edited by deleted (Wed 25-Feb-15 18:17:59)

The new build on another H/D is a clean install ...no drivers or other software installed.

I have re installed the graphic drivers on original H/D no improvement.

I will dig out another graphic card and try it.

Thanks for your input.

" If you plug in another graphics card into PC, the new one will take precedence over the onboard."

Not with my system. I have to go into the BIOS and disable the onboard.

Modern Motherboards have a option of detecting a Video card before activating the on-board VGA, if so you can just put in the video card into the right slot on the motherboard and it'll auto-detect it without activating on-board video. I'm guessing it's an older generation motherboard or another reason is that you are using the same brand of video card that came pre-installed. This is a common reason why the on-board video card may not be disabled automatically.

Edited by deleted (Wed 25-Feb-15 14:30:06)

Sorry Roberto, but what on earth is this post to do with the problem we are trying to fix? No mention has been made of an HP printer or a Linksys USB wireless dongle. Are you posting this in the correct forum? The 1st rule of IT troubleshooting is to look at the facts, not make up solutions based on guesswork.

The 2nd rule is not to think you are the only one with any knowledge or experience. The fact you haven't had personal experience of other things that can cause very long Windows XP startup times does not invalid what other people have come across.

I agree it has now been possible to rule out printers. Until that question was dealt with, it wasn't.

That's two of us you've had a go at. I've just looked at this thread as well, where you display the same unnecessary confrontational attitude, and made a complete ass of yourself.

I'm glad to see you haven't recommended buying a Lenova from EBuyer instead . That was another case of being a little out-spoken.

Your OneDrive solution that I saw at the weekend was useful .

Have fun.

In reply to a post by rogerfp:

Don't you read all the earlier comments before posting yours? If you read my original post, it's a hardware fault, probably a faulty graphics card.

I agree, sounds like a video card problem.

Depending on age, it may be a AGP card, easy to get cheap second hand ones on Ebay. But knowing HP it is built in, could still be able to add one.

1. I have never said that I am the only one with knowledge or experience. No one in IT can ever say they are right all the time as its impossible to do so. I've come across PC issues, the cause of which just defy logic.
2. I have had plenty of experience of long Windows XP startup times having dealt with some 10's of thousands of IT support issues with everything from Dos 3x to Windows 8.1 over the years for major international IT companies. I can see you are far more knowledgable that me regarding Broadband issues and on that subject I would defer to your opinions.
Your points regarding Windows slow startup issues with printers is perfectly valid and I've even seen PC's that won't even POST with a USB printers plugged in, but on this occasion are irelevant to the facts provided by Brunel.
3. In the thread you refer to, I was pointing out that in the IT world ageing of hardware and software is at a rate possible as mich as 4/5 times almost everything else on this Planet, so a 5 year old printer is probably equivalent to a 20/25 year old car or TV. This is not confrontational, just a fact.
4. Lastly, I don't understand what on earth is buying a Lenovo from eBuyer to do with me?

Edited by deleted (Thu 26-Feb-15 14:17:20)

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/windows/t/4355059-r...

Thats not a recommendation, but showing that for the money being spent on updating an old Laptop there are new ones available at that time for little more.
Is that all you've got to worry about?

Edited by deleted (Thu 26-Feb-15 17:09:34)

Yes.

Aren't I lucky .

Not really, at least the rest of us have got a real life, not just online!!

Edited by deleted (Thu 26-Feb-15 18:14:14)

Today I went to a mid-day chamber-music concert in the centre of Manchester and had some pleasant discussions about it afterwards with some friends and a couple of strangers.

Then drove back home in my shirt-sleeves in the sunshine with the hood down on my car - first time this year. That too was very pleasant.

Took the dog for his morning walk at 16:30 LOL, mostly pleasant but a bit chilly by 17:45. A bit of chit-chat with acquaintances on the way.

Radio 3 this evening looks to be enjoyable, though a little lightweight. I'll probably look into sync'ing the text messages from my G3 to my rarely used LG equivalent, as the charging socket on it is on the verge of disappearing into the innards. Don't really want to use one of my google accounts but that looks the best bet. I haven't yet found where the messages are in order to use Dropbox.

Life's a breeze, thank you .

Sad that you even feel the need to make a post like this documenting your life. No one cares. I really don't have any interest in engaging in verbal fisticuffs with someone so childish. My only concern is trying to help Brunel resolve his XP problem.

Edited by deleted (Thu 26-Feb-15 20:04:40)

Jolly good of you, old boy!

Which is where this sub-thread is heading.

Sometimes best to just let go and not keep fighting otherwise things escalate and then a finger hovers over the suspend button.

Just letting the OP know that some systems require a change in the BIOS.

Both my XP PCs are old with one being about 15 years of age. Both are used for backing-up purposes.

If running XP then the system is likely to be old unless there is some legacy software required to run on a newer system.

Fair point. Its too easy to forget that we released XP on October 25th 2001. Only seems a few years ago.

In reply to a post by rogerfp:

Fair point. Its too easy to forget that we released XP on October 25th 2001. Only seems a few years ago.

"We"?

Sorry, slip of the tongue, used to work for MS when XP was launched.

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-Feb-15 20:44:39)

I thought you owned the company for a minute, Steve.

If only Steve, I'd be posting this from my private island somewhere or from my jet. Unfortunately, it's just from a house in Kent. C'est la vie.

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-Feb-15 20:59:57)

I was referring to Steve Ballmer who is still the largest shareholder in MS, I believe.

Very subtle, I missed that one.

In reply to a post by rogerfp:

Fair point. Its too easy to forget that we released XP on October 25th 2001. Only seems a few years ago.

Indeed, a great OS, but now quite dated. Yet a lot of users insist on using it for no sensible reason whatsoever.

Sorry, this was meant to be linked to Pipexer's last post re XP. Not concentrating - watching TV.
Indeed. It was a revolution at the time, combining the stability of NT/2000 and the usability of 98. A fairly difficult task. Up until then there had always been separate business and home OS's. NT platform pretty rock solid as no hardware could "talk" to the kernel so no good for gaming, 95/98 where hardware could "talk" to the kernel, which is why it crashed with BSOD's, protection errors etc. When you consider it was released in 2001 and not replaced until Vista in 2007 (pushed out too early before being ready in my opinion by the MS money men wanting to boost income). Not many OS stay around this long. Vista - 2+ years, 7 - 3 years, 8/8.1 - 3 years. As you say, now past its sell by date for most of us.

Edited by deleted (Sat 28-Feb-15 00:52:03)

Why pay for something newer that doesn't give anything extra for lots of users?

Do you buy a new car every 6 months because of newer innovations?

Edited by broadband66 (Mon 02-Mar-15 12:56:57)

I suppose Kent is close to France hence the French!

In reply to a post by broadband66:

Why pay for something newer that doesn't give anything extra for lots of users?

But that is wrong, actually, it does give a lot extra for the small price to pay, in many cases, but if users never upgrade, then they are never going to realize those benefits. If you apply that attitude people would still be running MS-DOS etc.

touche

Edited by deleted (Mon 02-Mar-15 18:28:53)

So I assume that you are still watching TV in 405 line black & white or SD. Don't you like enjoying the benefits of improvents in technology? Why pay for FTTC when you can still use dial up or ADSL? After all does the same thing just a bit slower and more flakey. Anyway car technology doesn't improve at the same rate, so not really a good example is it? I'm with Pipexer on this one.

I'm going to weigh in on the other side (sort of).

For many people they don't notice the difference between XP and Win 7/8. If they aren't upgrading their apps then they will continue working on XP. XP is faster on old hardware than Win 7/8 will be.

So, upgrading may involve replacing a perfectly working PC.

The benefits of upgrading are the support of newer hardware/software, arguably better stability (although XP was pretty solid) and continued patching support from Microsoft.

But, of course the user also has to get used to the new OS. For Win 7 that is pretty easy. For Win 8.1 it is not so easy and will take a little while to work things out (like how do I close a metro app, how do I reboot it, etc). These things are not intuitive in Win 8.1 and therefore take some learning.

The problem is XP was just too darn good. There is little justification for many people to upgrading and if it involves a hardware replacement then it is even more difficult to justify.

The Metro interface defeats the object of Windows anyway.

Plus few ordinary people will discover how to set Win 8x to boot straight to the Desktop, and even if they do that is not as simple to operate as Win 7 and earlier.

I can sort of understand people's reluctance to change the way they work and you and RobertoS are perfectly correct regarding usability and the horrible Metro interface. I loath it and use a free program called Start Menu 8, which provides the exact same interface as previous Windows including a fully functional Start button. There is no way that you can design an interface that works for all variations of Windows (PC, touch screen tablet etc). Microsoft's problem is that it is too arrogant. Their attitude is "this is what you are going to get, like it or lump it". Instead of listening to users opinions.

Yes I still watch in SD. HD is too unnatural in its colour depth. Vinyl is better than CD and far superior to MP3. Not everything that is newer is better.

And I'm still on ADSL as I only use 10 - 15GB / month and 14mbps is more that we need. The odd upload is a bit slow but I have a life and can set an upload going and go and do something more interesting instead ( as the old childrens tv programme used to say).

Some people extole the virtues of W8 when many ( and I probably should say the majority) wouldn't give a flying "£$% what OS they used as long as they can watch catch-up tv, view some strange dog balancing a ball on his nose via UTube and read their emails.

Does a newer OS really make the world a better place?

"Not everything that is newer is better." No of course, not but 95% is.
There is no way I would watch TV in "fuzzy vision "SD.
Even my 87 year old Aunt has just got HD and she thinks it's brilliant.

Try using ADSL when you've got 25 devices that are Internet connected, including 3 TV's streaming media and 2 sons playing online games. And who on earth wants to watch catchup TV on a computer. Why not in comfort watching a large screen TV from the sofa. Anyway FFTC is hardly any dearer than ADSL, £5 a month in my case.

"Some people extole the virtues of W8 when many (and I probably should say the majority) wouldn't give a flying "£$%? what OS they use. That's just personal opinion, hardly a fact.

"Does a newer OS really make the world a better place?" No, but a combination of all modern technology does. If you developed a serious illness I'm sure you would rather be treated with the tech and drugs available now rather than those from as short a time as 15/20 years ago.

You are only on this earth once, it's not a rehearsal. I want the best I can get. The only reason not to is financial restraints.

Edited by deleted (Tue 03-Mar-15 19:03:17)

From what I remember from reading a few days (weeks?) ago Win 10 will give us back a proper desktop interface. I'm 98% happy anyway since I discovered the Boot to Desktop option in W8 rather than the annoying boot to Metro and having to click the Desktop button.

Just the sheer frustration of seeing the Metro screen at bootup and despair over the idiots that OK'ed it was the problem. Not the single click required.

Just discovered Chrome for getting catchup onto a non-smart TV. Great. My preferred control is from my iPad, rather than the laptop or phone.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 04-Mar-15 02:06:31)

I can confirm on the latest build of Win 10 it is indeed boot to desktop with a start menu, although there is a button to make the start menu full screen in a pseudo metro screen for those that have complained their digits are too big for a normal start menu,

XP can utilise FTTC. W7 and above not necessary.

Horses for courses. Yes 25 devices will require more bandwidth but who really needs 25 devices connected concurrently.

If SD viewing is fuzzy then an eye check-up is long overdue.

Word processing and spreadsheets can't have data input into them any quicker on W8 than DOS6.1 so not quite a personal opinion.

If keeping up with "the Jones' " is your thing and wanting the best then feel free.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

From what I remember from reading a few days (weeks?) ago Win 10 will give us back a proper desktop interface.

The "proper desktop interface" never went away.

Yes it did, and still isn't present in Win 8.1.

For instance, the normal menu that pops up in Win 7 and below on clicking the Start button only appears by right-clicking the Windows icon in that position. Left-clicking it gives the Metro. I haven't tried to pin frequently used programs to the right-click menu as I have most of what I need on the taskbar anyway, but I did used to have some on one and some on the other. Where's the box for the "Run command? (I never used that anyway as I pin a c:\ prompt to the taskbar).

It also can be tricky getting the desktop version of IE onto the taskbar shortcut area. You have to be savvy enough to avoid the Metro version and relatively few people are.

Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could find other extra difficulties. We shall see, when Win 10 comes along, how that compares.

Also one thing that I find annoying. I do not like all the metro apps that are constantly downloading and updating everything from news weather and social media junk. I took the trouble I thought to remove all these. Along came an update and many were back as well as a flock of ones I had never seen before which were trying to push information I do not want.

Having said that I ave to admit the laptop is a back up machine and only used when I am away from home, so I can not really claim to have spent a vast amount of time in front of it. For a fairly cheap machine it does seem nice and fast and capable. A pity that skydrive is tied to the microsoft user which seems to be able to see relatively little on my home network (including printers).

When the 7 and XP machines are finally retired (they die) then I am sure I will get to love it.

If you right click on the start button there is an option there to launch run. Exactly the same amount of clicks required as in Windows 7 (actually less, because in Windows 7 Run doesn't appear by default so you have to enable it).

Of course you could just press winkey+r.

IE desktop version can be fixed by, you guessed it, going into IE options.

All these "niggles" could be fixed in about 5 minutes. As a power user you should be able to deal with it.

I wouldn't class myself as a power user, but far more knowledgeable than most.

Perhaps all the others who complain about the Metro interface and don't even know how to do what I can are all wrong. Whoever at Microsoft has decided to backtrack should perhaps be sacked?

In reply to a post by Pipexer:

All these "niggles" could be fixed in about 5 minutes. As a power user you should be able to deal with it.

I'm certain, given time, a lot of the frustrations of Win 8.1 can be circumvented. Unfortunately I tend to want to use my PCs as a Tool - not some sort of mental challenge!

As an example, may I compare my Desktop PC (Win 8.1, but with "Classic-Start" installed), against a brand new Laptop with just 8.1 - both with MS Office installed.

I want to start MS Word (not exactly an "obscure" program, which is NOT an App in the "Metro" sense, but a proper Windows Application that launches in a Windows type of Screen ), both from the Desktop Screen:-

PC:-
1 - Click Start
2 - Click Word

LapTop:-
1 - Click Start (goes into Metro Mode)
2 - Locate & click down-arrow to get into Apps Screen (which are sorted by name) & look for either "Word" or "Office"
3 - Scroll to the end of the Apps List - not there!
4 - Keep Scrolling to find "other Lists", which ultimately includes a MS Office List
5 - Eventually click on "Word"

Needless to say, I will be installing the non-MS Classic-Start onto my new Laptop as soon as possible!

I've yet to find anyone that has clarified the advantages of "Metro" on a "Work-horse" Computer!

On the Start Screen type the word "Word"
You should see MS Word in the search results on the RH.
Select MS Word.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

On the Start Screen type the word "Word"
You should see MS Word in the search results on the RH.
Select MS Word.

Many thanks for that! I hadn't realised that it bought up a hidden Search Screen!!

Tends to confirm the point that I already made:-

In reply to a post by johnjburness:

I'm certain, given time, a lot of the frustrations of Win 8.1 can be circumvented. Unfortunately I tend to want to use my PCs as a Tool - not some sort of mental challenge!

It is also very easy to remove programs from the start menu that you don't use, move them about and regroup them.

First of all you can drag any icon to a new poisition just by pointing holding down the left mouse button and dragging.

I have used this to drag all the programs I use to a new group.

Next hold down the CRTL key and scroll you mouse and the start screen will minaturise. You can now drag the groups around. If your useful group is not at the left move it there.

Now when using the desktop you are back to where you were before,

1 click on the start button
1 click on the program you require

The search facility is also great for things like control panel.

I'd rather tell the OS what I what readily available, not a huge array on six or seven scrolling screens of idiotic large icons even if I wanted to use that interface. It's a pain to re-organise.

In reply to a post by johnjburness:

Many thanks for that! I hadn't realised that it bought up a hidden Search Screen!!

Good grief.

In reply to a post by johnjburness:

Needless to say, I will be installing the non-MS Classic-Start onto my new Laptop as soon as possible!

I haven't heard of Classic Start, so it may not have the niggles I experience, but to load to the Desktop rather than the Metro see this page and scroll down to "Choosing where to go when you sign in". That's what I do.

Incidentally, the opening sentence in that section is hilarious! "By default, most people will open the desktop when they sign in to their PC, but no matter what kind of device you use, you can choose to see either the desktop, the Start screen or the Apps view when you sign in to your PC".

Then why, Mr Microsoft, do you default it to the Start screen? And default to pinning Metro versions of MS Apps to the Taskbar rather than the standard programs?

In reply to a post by Pipexer:

In reply to a post by johnjburness:

Many thanks for that! I hadn't realised that it bought up a hidden Search Screen!!

Good grief.

Why the strange comment??

Was I meant to be a mind-reader?

It as one of the mind-boggling things I discovered (fortunately) early on when I complained to someone about the difficulty of getting to the Control panel. The told me just to type C when the Start Screen was showing.

Utterly insane.

I'm not sure I understand why those who detest the Metro interface so much, (including me), just don't install a 3rd party utility for free, so that you can use Windows 8/8.1 exactly as per previous versions. I use Startmenu8 which is brilliant. Metro invisible, full Start Button with Start Menu as before. http://www.iobit.com/iobitstartmenu8.php

I manage OK with the simple Load to Desktop option I described. I'm just left with niggles.

I dislike external unknown provenance overlay GUIs such as that's a simple example of, as they are even more likely to have unforeseen problems, bugs and foibles than Windows itself.

I beef mainly about the daftness of the people who signed it off for the mainstream OS in the world LOL.

The most obvious one being, as I've said many times, that it is contrary to the excellent fundamental concept of Windows. It cannot be suitable for serious work until that is rectified.

Even the Live Tiles are pointless except on an idle machine.

Totally agree with what you say about the way the interface is implemented in Windows 8/8.1. Who on earth at Microsoft thought this was a good idea for a desktop PC. Arrogant company as I've said before. Got to say I've been using Startmenu 8 since 8 came out on 6 PC's and never had one single problem.

In reply to a post by rogerfp:

Got to say I've been using Startmenu 8 since 8 came out on 6 PC's and never had one single problem.

I've used Classic Shell without any problems, but I also believe there is Classic Start 8.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Incidentally, the opening sentence in that section is hilarious! "By default, most people will open the desktop when they sign in to their PC, but no matter what kind of device you use, you can choose to see either the desktop, the Start screen or the Apps view when you sign in to your PC".

Then why, Mr Microsoft, do you default it to the Start screen? And default to pinning Metro versions of MS Apps to the Taskbar rather than the standard programs?

Unfortunately, MS's logic (or lack of it) is beyond my comprehension!

The fact John that there are so many Start Menu utilities of this type rather shows what most people think of Microsoft's interface. No one would bother to write an app if there was no demand.

We aren't supposed to agree .

LOL !!!!

I believe this is the reason Steve Sikorsky and Steve Ballmer no longer work at Microsoft.

Shouldn't things be getting more intuitive?

There is also a magnifying glass button you can click on first if you don't realise you can just start tyiping, of course this wastes an extra click.

Obviously Microsoft should plaster a big warning sign on the start screen saying "oh by the way, just in case it isn't obvious, you can start typing here and we'll do a search for you, you know, just like in Windows 7".

You can accomplish almost any task quicker on Windows 8 compared to Windows 7, fact. This is by utilizing the keyboard and mouse. By all means choose to live in the stone age and not take advantage of improvements. Not my problem. Not saying its perfect, but I'll take Windows 8 over 7 any day of the week. In fact, I refuse to use Windows 7 for work purposes, it just slows me down too much.

Where's the Metro Start screen in Windows 7? Where in Windows 7 can you just start typing into nothing and get search results come up?

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 09-Mar-15 22:44:15)

In Windows Vista, press the start button, and start typing, you get search results.
In Windows 7, press the start button, and start typing, you get search results.
In Windows 8, press the start button, and start typing, you get search results.
In Windows 8.1, press the start button, and start typing, you get search results.

Those search results are improved in each version too.

From memory, as my Win 7 machine is off, doesn't clicking the Start button give you (amongst other things) an entry field near to it with the carat in it?

Yes.

Not quite what you see on the Metro Start screen then and no reason to click anything. Given the instruction received with it, you swipe in from the right and go to the Search box. (I have a touch screen).

I can sometimes get the right-hand charm list to appear using the cursor on the Desktop but its a bit hit and miss depending on its status at the time. Slightly easier on the Start Screen but not guaranteed.

Even on Vista and 7 what you describe isn't as intuitive to the vast majority of home users and in fact office staff as you think. And you don't just start typing into nothing. We both know rather more than them, and even I always just type into the URL bar to search for anything.

In any case, on Win 7 and earlier just hovering over (? or do you click) he Start button and the start menu comes up with Control Panel and several other useful options normally in the right-hand split menu. No search needed.

In a 10 hour day I'm sure you don't carry out any extra work with W8 than you would with W7.

You can't physically type any quicker in a spreadsheet or word processing app. If you save 2 seconds when starting an app then use that time to look at your coffee.