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Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 15-Dec-15 20:07:12
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Using winfiws 10


[link to this post]
 
Have been getting the update to windows 10 message for a few weeks. Use win 7 pro on my main pc. Should i update now. Or wait a few months. What do you think?

IanD
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 15-Dec-15 21:12:01
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
Walt. I have just discovered a bug with the LPT driver in the latest update 1511, they are still debugging stuff. Rumour has it it will be forced on users in the new year anyway!

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 15-Dec-15 21:54:57
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
Avoid as long as possible. It's a ruddy beta product that isn't fit for general release, and doesn't seem to be very pleasant to use anyway.

Hide the icon and turn off the reminders, like I have done smile.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM


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Standard User cheshire_man
(knowledge is power) Tue 15-Dec-15 22:37:16
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
I updated my laptop 3 months ago and, after dealing with a boot problem (disable the Bluetooth device) it's running perfectly. I've installed (free) Classic Shell and it looks so very similar to Windows 10. A set of updates were installed today with no problems.

I don't do anything particularly exciting with it, run IIS for web site testing; it's all running, as far as I can see, perfectly.

I see no reason notto upgrade my desktop in the new year when I've sorted a current hardware problem.

Ultimately it's your decision. Make sure you take an image of the current system, and backup all your data as well.

Tony
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Tue 15-Dec-15 22:43:41
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
I've been using 10 for ages now. It's more stable than 7, 8, or 8.1 and a lot pleasanter to use. Seems to be easier on resources too.

But if you're worried just hold off a bit longer.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 16-Dec-15 08:39:09
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
I've upgrade a couple of devices - one is fine the other now needs to be reinstalled as it's decided it won't do any updates or store downloads (although some people might see that as a benefit). The other PC is more important and not willing to update that just yet - will probably wait at least another 3 months.

My families PCs I am holding off on. My Mum's laptop will probably be done around March. Brother's PC may not be done at all as he uses it for a lot of games and some are pretty old - likelihood is he will replace the PC before Win 7 goes out of support.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 16-Dec-15 08:47:09
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
Windows 10 is an OS that is not ready for general release, even if MS thinks it is. Still buggy and still some software and hardware problems. MS saying that Windows 10 is an evolving OS is rubbish, it is just MS speak for, we will put it out to the public and fix it afterwards.
The problem is that MS can change it to how they want and we would have little choice but to accept it.

Myself I would wait as long as possible.
But saying that, Windows 10 core is far better than Windows 7, it is faster, handles memory better, quicker to boot up, sometimes quicker to shut down,

I am using Windows 8.1 and now i got it looking and working the way I like it, I do not see a great advantage of updating to windows 10. I have tried and used windows 10, but there is no advantage over windows 8.1.

As for Banger saying it will be forced onto people in the new year, there is some truth in that in that MS will download the files to your computer and start the install process, but you can stop it at that point. Ms are already downloading the files to people's computers, which I think is out of order.

There are ways to stop this happening, theGWX control panel will get rid of the notification and will stop the files being downloaded. But it have been known for MS to reset this, but so far they have not on mine.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 16-Dec-15 17:20:55
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Talking about the nag, I have just seen this.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Wed 16-Dec-15 17:28:33
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
Don't forget that, before you are presented with this option (which you can still cancel - or you can decline the EULA) you have already clicked on an icon indicating that you wish to upgrade.
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 18:39:18
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
From my experience Windows 10 is at least if not more stable and reliable as Windows 7/8. I installed it on 7 pc's/laptops without any issues. However, I would recommend that as a minimum you backup all your important data and if possible, image your hard disk if you have a spare. I haven't used the rollback, so can't comment on how reliable it is. If you are able I would recommend a clean build its the best way. That's what I have done. Microsoft will not admit it in public, but it's the recommended way to install a new operating system. There are plenty of links on the web how to download the install files and create installation media, eg, http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/software/operating-sy...
As far as those whinging and whining about being a "beta" version. They are don't know what they are talking about. All operating systems and software are beta versions. Windows 95/98/XP etc. are still beta versions, as no software ever reaches the final version as bugs and security issues are constantly being found and discovered. It evolves all the time. So I would take the plunge and go for it.

Edited by rogerfp (Wed 16-Dec-15 19:19:17)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 18:52:11
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
"Beta" version has a specific meaning. It's for live environment testing prior to full release. A full general release is not supposed to be a beta.

The number of problems encountered with Win 10 strongly indicate it was not adequately beta-tested so should not have gone on full release to the public. The released version was still at beta level.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Wed 16-Dec-15 19:06:08
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Rubbish.
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 19:07:18
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
You really don't know what you are talking about. The release version is just the best beta version available at the time that a product has to be put out to market. Remind me again,how many years you worked for Microsoft?

Edited by rogerfp (Wed 16-Dec-15 19:12:16)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 19:39:36
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english...

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 19:42:54
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
If Microsoft consider, and teach their staff, that beta versions can be put on general release, no wonder they have got in such a mess over the last few years with Windows, and business users rejecting their OS as not fit for purpose.

I have never worked for Microsoft, and have never been brain-washed.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 19:46:04
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
You have no experience and know nothing about O/S software development. So when you are in a hole, just stop digging. Otherwise you are just going to embarrass yourself.

Edited by rogerfp (Wed 16-Dec-15 19:49:31)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 16-Dec-15 19:52:20
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
If you think release versions are beta, I have to wonder whether your role at Microsoft was just a convenience position.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Wed 16-Dec-15 19:57:22
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I'm perfectly aware of what a beta test is. I'm also perfectly aware that you have made a sweeping statement with no corroboration whatsoever. Windows 10 has as many, and as few, bugs as any other major OS release - all versions of Windows included.
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 19:57:30
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
So how many operating system developments have you and RoberoS been involved in? Thought so. When you have worked for Microsoft for 10 years having been at stages involved in developing Operating Systems, I might value your opinions. Until then your opinions are just conjecture and worthless.

Edited by rogerfp (Wed 16-Dec-15 20:04:03)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:00:16
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
Seeing as my software development experience ran from 1967 to 2002 in a professional capacity, and in a desultory manner since I retired, I think I do know what a beta version is.

Have you quite finished with the personal insults? They frequently come from people who are losing the argument.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:05:00
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Remind me again how many years you worked for Microsoft?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:07:07
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
Observation. Win 10 has had far more problems publicised than any version since Win 3.1 - the first that worked properly.

Do you see mass business takeup, or just geek love-frenzies.
The release version is just the best beta version available at the time that a product has to be put out to market.
A very telling statement. A marketing imperative over-riding the technical fitness for release. Exactly the point my "sweeping statement" makes.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:08:58
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
More to the point, do you still work for them? Or should the word be "shill"?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:21:29
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
Don't forget that, before you are presented with this option (which you can still cancel - or you can decline the EULA) you have already clicked on an icon indicating that you wish to upgrade.



Are you sure about that? Remember MS have been downloading Windows 10 setup files to computers where that icon have not been ticked. I would not put it past MS to try and put more pressure on people to update.

i will turn GWX back on for a few days and see what happens.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:23:01
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
"Beta" version has a specific meaning. It's for live environment testing prior to full release. A full general release is not supposed to be a beta.

The number of problems encountered with Win 10 strongly indicate it was not adequately beta-tested so should not have gone on full release to the public. The released version was still at beta level.


I agree 100%, MS have taken the beta label off windows 10 and chucked it out to the public before it was ready as they did not want to fail the launch date.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:24:35
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
When have businesses ever taken up an a new release of an operating system, unless they have carried out months and months if not years of assessing the impact on their current infrastructure, hardware and software? Many Utility companies, the NHS, the US Army and Navy, the Crown Commercial Service, ATM's, the US Electrical Energy Industry are still predominately using Windows XP.
"Windows 10 has had far more problems publicised than any version since Windows 3.1- the first that worked properly." Windows 3.1 as far more buggy than any O/S since, but then you should know that with all your Microsoft experience wouldn't you. The only reason that there is more publicity is that back in 1992 the Internet was virtually non existent. Now every loser publishes their sob story about how Wndows 10 doesn't work them because they don't understand how to install and configure and troubleshoot it.
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:26:40
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Stop embarrassing yourself. Ignorance is temporary, stupidity is permanent

Edited by rogerfp (Wed 16-Dec-15 20:28:30)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:30:26
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
I am not embarrassed smile.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:31:41
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Windows 3.1 as far more buggy than any O/S since,
Were you alive?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:32:29
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
If you look at this you will understand how ridiculous your opinion on beta software is wink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_...
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:35:46
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
How many years did you work developing operating systems?
Thought so. Another amateur.
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:37:19
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The usual petty and childish comments that we have come to expect from you. Time to grow up.

Edited by rogerfp (Wed 16-Dec-15 20:40:12)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:39:14
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
How many years did you work developing operating systems?
When do you start exactly? You have a lot to learn.
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:46:25
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Wow, how ignorant can you get?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 20:57:03
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
Still resorting to personal insults? Is that all you can really offer?

Why you seem to think OS development experience is at all relevant to knowing what a beta release is a mystery. It's still a form of software. A very niche one in fact.

I have stated my (business) software development experience. Which oddly enough covered a lot of low-level interaction with many operating systems.

You go on about businesses still using XP. Quite! It's only since Microsoft came out with the increasingly non-reliable and/or non-user-friendly follow-ups that business stopped adopting new Windows versions within 12 months of release.

The management and the IT guys in these companies are very hard-headed. They aren't playing computer games. I varied between being one of them and supplying them.

Businesses depend on things working. I produced in various capacities business applications that worked from day one, with minor fixes when necessary, and ongoing major enhancements as the business needs changed. Which they can do very dramatically and suddenly. A world I don't think you are aware of, but the world that says "we want XP".

That isn't the state of Win 10 OS.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 16-Dec-15 21:02:30
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Wow, how ignorant can you get?
Well, you start off like you are now, then eventually you'll get better. It's called experience.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Wed 16-Dec-15 21:26:53
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Win 10 has had far more problems publicised than any version since Win 3.1 - the first that worked properly.
Unfortunately, you just repeat your sweeping statement again with not a shred of corroboration. It is, as far as I know, simply untrue.
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 21:27:02
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Shame you didn't
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Wed 16-Dec-15 21:30:32
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Have you ever rolled out Windows is a large enterprise? Do you really suppose that a new OS is ever rolled out in such a situation within months of its release?
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 16-Dec-15 21:33:41
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
Being better than you is not much of a challenge.

Looks back over your posts, can you confirm you are referring to the Insider program?
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 21:40:20
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
"Still resorting to personal insults? Is that all you can really offer?"
Thought I'd drop to your level.
You should address your posts to someone who gives a [email protected]
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Wed 16-Dec-15 21:42:03
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
All this talk about beta or not is a red herring. An RTM version of software is clearly not a beta, whatever flaws it may contain. All software contains bugs, some more than others. Talk about how quickly enterprise customers are taking it up is equally irrelevant. Anyone with experience of rolling software out in an enterprise can tell you that it takes a lot of testing, and meticulous planning berfore taking such a step. So let's get away from the obviously specious arguments.

What bothers me is a rather sweeping statement about there having been more problems with Windows 10 than with any previous version of Windows. Without at least some evidence I just don't believe it.
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 21:42:31
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Wow, what a [censored]
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 16-Dec-15 21:53:53
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
I guess you can't explain yourself very well. Presumably you've been drinking?
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 21:59:32
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
Totally agree. The problem is that the only comments about a product that get publicity are the negative ones. You don't often get positive comments, they are just not interesting enough to get published, unless someone is specifically asked. Also gradually since previous O/S's have been released more and more people have got better access to the Internet and feel more comfortable at posting information and problems. However a majority of the issues are usually because users don't understand how to setup, configure and troubleshoot Windows. As many are aware, upgrades often show up inherent issues in the original O/S installation. Usually a clean install resolves 99% of any problems. Many are not technically competent to do this and consequently blame the O/S as being a faulty product.

Edited by rogerfp (Wed 16-Dec-15 22:01:05)

Standard User rogerfp
(member) Wed 16-Dec-15 22:00:13
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Grow up and stop being so pathetically childish.

Edited by rogerfp (Wed 16-Dec-15 22:02:05)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 22:01:44
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I don't think anyone should accuse others on these forums of drinking. It has been wrongly said about me several times, as you will have seen.

However, seeing as he has now sunk to filter evasion against me, and filter-censoring against you, perhaps your question about the Insider programme hits the nail on the head.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 22:10:51
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I meant to post earlier this snippet from a link to "perpetual beta" in your earlier wiki link. Perpetual beta seeming go be what rogerpf seems to believe is a valid state.
Perpetual beta has come to be associated with the development and release of a service in which constant updates are the foundation for the habitability or usability of a service. According to publisher and open source advocate Tim O'Reilly:

"Users must be treated as co-developers, in a reflection of open source development practices (even if the software in question is unlikely to be released under an open source license.) The open source dictum, 'release early and release often', in fact has morphed into an even more radical position, 'the perpetual beta', in which the product is developed in the open, with new features slipstreamed in on a monthly, weekly, or even daily basis. It's no accident that services such as Gmail, Google Maps, Flickr, del.icio.us, and the like may be expected to bear a 'Beta' logo for years at a time."
Sounds fine for kids games and social media. I wouldn't describe GMail or Google Maps to be such though. The fact they continue to add new facilities is not the same thing.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 22:12:21
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
Isn't swearing in every recent post a little childish? Plus personal attacks in several?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 16-Dec-15 22:28:15
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes, that's what I thought. He seems blissfully unaware that the software needs to install correctly on a variety of different hardware, which would require much more than a leap of faith in a beta. Obviously when you have an Insider build, it's up to you to install it.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 16-Dec-15 23:00:01
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
"Beta" version has a specific meaning. It's for live environment testing prior to full release. A full general release is not supposed to be a beta.

The number of problems encountered with Win 10 strongly indicate it was not adequately beta-tested so should not have gone on full release to the public. The released version was still at beta level.

It is not Beta at all that is a completely idiotic statement.

AAISP Home::1
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 23:04:56
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
It's also idiotic for anyone to claim it was fit for general release at the end of July. It was a shambles. Perhaps that needs to be the new term for something that is post-beta but has to be released due to marketing division say-so smile.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Wed 16-Dec-15 23:06:54
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It was a shambles.
You keep making this sort of statement without backing it up in any way. It ought to be pretty easy to provide documentary evidence that Windows 10 was a shambles on release. So why do you keep evading the question?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Dec-15 23:41:15
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
The easiest way for you to start would be by setting this forum to display posts for the last six months. Then read through them all.

Or would you like me to give you a long list of the Win 10 ones in a post?

Then just picking the first that google comes up with, try page 6 of this list:-
Another problem caused by the forced updates is that they can crash your computer. Rebooting your computer should fix that on a case by case basis.You can also uninstall the driver that's causing problems.
That's a job for geeks, not the general public. Quite apart from whatever uses that driver becoming disabled.

Page 7 is similar - as Microsoft drivers very often do not provide full device facilities.

Page 8 is simply unacceptable. Has this been altered by Microsoft?

The next one mentions Edge. Am I right in thinking this is a somewhat noddy browser at the moment, or is it full feature and reliable?

And so on and so on.

How about the November update. (My bold)
On November 12th, Microsoft finally pushed the button to release Windows 10 version 1511 on all supported regions.

The new version brings significant changes and a number of new features that are meant to fix and improve the operating system experience. Those who successfully upgraded will notice changes on the Start menu, and how Cortana now can handle missed call notifications and handwriting recognition to create reminders.

The Settings app also gets updated with a number of new features, such as the ability for users to install new apps on secondary or external drivers, new default printer manager, new personalization options, and the ability to configure a new feature to enable you to find your device if it ever gets lost.

Microsoft Edge received much-needed performance and security improvements, and the operating system includes a number of fixes and changes under-the-hood that makes version 1511 a great upgrade.
Much of that looks like stuff that should have been present at general release in July.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 07:29:02
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
These are exactly the sort of problems that you get with any new OS release, particularly the driver ones. I see more queries on the technical forums that I read about getting XP or 7 to install than I do about 10.

I agree with you about Edge; it's as bad as IE always was. That's why I use Chrome. A web browser, as far as I am concerned, is just a user program not a part of the OS.

From your description I am amazed that so many millions of people manage to run Windows 10. But I'm not trying to persuade anyone to change if they don't wish to - some people are still happy to run XP.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 09:16:04
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
One advantage of updating to Windows 10 now is it's free, as Microsoft said it would be free for 12 months.

And of course you get the advantage of early user experience as Windows 10 represents the future.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 09:33:16
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
It is not Beta at all that is a completely idiotic statement.



It felt and looked like a beta when it was launched, I used it before it was launched and a couple of months after and I was a little surprised when they said it would be launched on time.

MS did not want to miss the launch date, so they put it out to the public ready or not. While subsequent updates have improved things, windows 10 still have problems.

Many people I know are waiting for a few month months before updating, some have updated just to get their free copy and gone back to their old OS, that is what I did. I updated and then done a clean install of Windows 8.1

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 09:45:42
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
You keep making this sort of statement without backing it up in any way. It ought to be pretty easy to provide documentary evidence that Windows 10 was a shambles on release. So why do you keep evading the question?


I suppose it depends on how you use it, if you just use it for running a browser then it is fine, it is when you get to running software and hardware that the problem start.

Vegas played up on it, my Scanner would not work on the launch version correctly, My sound card would muck up on Windows 10 because MS wanted to update the drivers to ones that would not work and because MS think they know best, they only allow drivers updates to be disabled for a certain amount of time.
The one strange things is that the launch version recognised my printer and put some sort of drivers on, but the November update don't recognise the printer now, which is not a bad thing.

Don't forget about the unmatched context menus and the unresponsive start menu, something which I noticed other people have had problems with, also the problems with some Nvida video cards.

Windows 10 was not ready to be launched and was a rushed job, now we get the excuse that it is a evolving OS.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 09:47:09
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
One advantage of updating to Windows 10 now is it's free, as Microsoft said it would be free for 12 months.

And of course you get the advantage of early user experience as Windows 10 represents the future.


Free as in we don't want your money, but not free in the sense we want to know everything about you.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 17-Dec-15 10:22:43
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Surely that's an argument for updating to it as late as possible before the end of July 2016? Where is the advantage in the pain of being an early adopter?

The longer you leave it the more likely it is to work. Assuming one updates to it from 8.1 at all. Is there a need?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 11:13:27
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Assuming one updates to it from 8.1 at all. Is there a need?
No, there is no need. Stick with 8.1.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 11:18:13
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I wouldn't update to Windows 10 just because it is free. I did update because, as I discovered from the previews, it is the OS that 8 and 8.1 should have been. Like all OSs it is not perfect, just an improvement on previous iterations of the concept. It makes the integration of a number of devices very easy and, to me, that is more important than the fact that the new browser is not yet as good as it should be (although it is impressively fast). I have the technical ability to use a different browser.

If people want to stick with 8.1, 8, 7, XP, 2000, or 98 it matters nothing to me. They can continue to use 3.1 for all I care; but I don't like to see disinformation and FUD being spread by those who don't wish to upgrade.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 11:22:50
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
The issues that you mention are typical issues that occur with every release of a new OS. Programs that work on a previous version, but used unapproved ways of accessing the system, do tend to break on new versions. As for drivers, scanners in particular seem to cause problems - I lose count of the number of posts that I have seen on technical forums along the lines of "My XYZ scanner worked fine on XP but I can't get it to work on Vista", and so on. Don't blame the OS for poorly written software and lack of driver support from hardware manufacturers.

I can assure you that I use Windows 10 for rather more demanding applications than web browsing.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 17-Dec-15 11:41:19
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
I don't argue with the statement that a new OS always shows up some problems from peripherals and components.

I do maintain that Microsoft went ahead with general release this time when the relevant manufacturers for whatever reason hadn't been able to produce working updates in time, or possibly the "forced" MS replacement drivers were duff in many cases.

Regarding the manufacturers, it is very possible the relevant specifications were either published too late by MS, or even changed at a late date.

What was obvious at the beginning of August was that there were far more such problems than normal. Far more even than when MSDOS was dropped, which is when they could be expected to peak.

We are possibly now in a position where a general release would be sensible. In July, definitely not.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 12:18:33
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
What was obvious at the beginning of August was that there were far more such problems than normal. Far more even than when MSDOS was dropped, which is when they could be expected to peak.
If you are going to hark back to MS-DOS, I'm done!
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 17-Dec-15 13:14:55
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
Surely a newer OS is supposed to be MORE intuitive and easier to use. If one has to configure it then it's not fit for purpose!

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 17-Dec-15 13:22:54
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
If MS state that W10 can be used to UPDATE a previous OS then there should be few issues.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Thu 17-Dec-15 14:17:01
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
They would say that, wouldn't they!!
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 14:23:03
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
The issues that you mention are typical issues that occur with every release of a new OS. Programs that work on a previous version, but used unapproved ways of accessing the system, do tend to break on new versions. As for drivers, scanners in particular seem to cause problems - I lose count of the number of posts that I have seen on technical forums along the lines of "My XYZ scanner worked fine on XP but I can't get it to work on Vista", and so on. Don't blame the OS for poorly written software and lack of driver support from hardware manufacturers.

I can assure you that I use Windows 10 for rather more demanding applications than web browsing.



What you are forgetting is that Windows 10 was in public testing for a long time, so a lot of these problems should have been sorted before launch. I thought that that was the idea of the insider program.

I can understand Hardware not working between some versions of windows, ie, Windows XP and Vista as these versions used different drivers.
Windows 10 supposed to be able to use Windows 8.1 drivers and it does in some way. My scanner problem was that the software would not recognise a button being pressed on my scanner to scan. In fact the only software that worked in a fashion was the built in scanning software on Windows 10, but only as a flatbed, the single sheet feeder was ignored.
I did get it working after a lot of mucking around.

The sound card is another issue, I got it working with drivers supplied by Asus, but Windows 10 would try and replace the drivers with its own, which did not work. Why do that?

The unresponsive start menu, should have been fixed before launched, the context menus should have been sorted, little things like that.

I have rescued a few people who have tried to update to 10 because their machines have failed to update and they are dumped back to the updating screen all the time. What would those people have done if I was not here?

I think MS spent so much time in finding ways to spy on us that they have forgotten what a OS is for.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Thu 17-Dec-15 14:25:25
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: broadband66] [link to this post]
 
If you say so. I'll put my hands up and defer to your vast experience and knowledge of installing OS's. I must have been really unlucky with the 6000+ I have installed over the last 25 years, in that almost all needed configuring and setting up after the initial installation.

Edited by rogerfp (Thu 17-Dec-15 14:43:59)

Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 16:00:48
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
Are you sure about that? Remember MS have been downloading Windows 10 setup files to computers where that icon have not been ticked. I would not put it past MS to try and put more pressure on people to update.

i will turn GWX back on for a few days and see what happens.



the new nag have just come up and I have not clicked on anything to say I want Windows 10, so it seems this new nag will be on all Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 machines.

Oh no, that mean more computers i will have to sort out.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User neo_wales
(newbie) Thu 17-Dec-15 16:34:15
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
Are you sure about that? Remember MS have been downloading Windows 10 setup files to computers where that icon have not been ticked. I would not put it past MS to try and put more pressure on people to update.

i will turn GWX back on for a few days and see what happens.



the new nag have just come up and I have not clicked on anything to say I want Windows 10, so it seems this new nag will be on all Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 machines.

Oh no, that mean more computers i will have to sort out.


Your mates don't seem to have much luck with computers you sort out, perhaps leave them alone lol

I only know a couple of folk who've had running issues with W10, perhaps they are running newer kit than your chums?

Robert
South Wales UK
Talk Talk FTTC
i7 PC
i7 Surface Pro 4
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 17-Dec-15 16:53:30
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
If you say so. I'll put my hands up and defer to your vast experience and knowledge of installing OS's. I must have been really unlucky with the 6000+ I have installed over the last 25 years, in that almost all needed configuring and setting up after the initial installation.
You write OS's and install them? Wow! Microsoft must regard you as an invaluable resource.

6000+ installations over 25 years. That's 240 per year. Over one per working day. Plus all the configuring and setting up, plus sorting out any problems.

Truly a prodigy that we should all respect and listen to.

[cough]
(I think we now have the truth about the man).

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Thu 17-Dec-15 17:47:52
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
No one asked for your opinion. BTW. As you obviously can't read, I never, ever said I write operating systems! Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, so they say. There are many on here who are not surprised at your stupid comments.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 17:56:05
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
No one asked for your opinion. BTW. As you obviously can't read, I never, ever said I write operating systems! Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, so they say. There are many on here who are not surprised at your stupid comments.
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
How many years did you work developing operating systems?
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:03:19
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
To be fair, if I asked you how many years you had worked as a salesman that wouldn't mean that I was a salesman.

All this business about developing OSs is yet another red herring. I doubt that anyone here has done that.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:05:00
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
The question is, why would you ask that?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:15:20
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
However, taking an earlier post:-
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
You really don't know what you are talking about. The release version is just the best beta version available at the time that a product has to be put out to market. Remind me again,how many years you worked for Microsoft?
and the full version of BatBoy's quote:-
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
How many years did you work developing operating systems?
Thought so. Another amateur.
We seem to have someone who implies superior technical and OS-writing experience.

What we appear to have (at best) is a customer support staff member at a Microsoft Partner, who spent 25 years mainly occupied with OS upgrade installations. For some reason not progressing beyond that.

Not exactly wide experience of OS and software in general design, development/writing, pre-release testing procedures.

Cocky and bad-mouthed to boot.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:19:12
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Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
For approximately 2 years I was involved in helping to develop an OS. I have never said that I was involved in writing them. I don't have that sort of background or ability. But it was a good insight in how the process pans out of bringing the OS to market. BTW, I am not referring to the Insider Program as some have implied. I was working in house. Hope this clarifies my involvement.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:24:01
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
It's also idiotic for anyone to claim it was fit for general release at the end of July. It was a shambles. Perhaps that needs to be the new term for something that is post-beta but has to be released due to marketing division say-so smile.

Really? Funny I installed it on many machines and didn't have any real problems. Oh and by the way Windows Server 2016 Beta 3 and 4 work quite well too.
Maybe you are doing something stupid with it...

You are making yourself look silly, and with respect some of the questions you (and some others) are posting here are proof in point that you are tinkering around with an OS you do not fully understand and that if you left it alone you may not have problems.

AAISP Home::1

Edited by Pipexer (Thu 17-Dec-15 18:24:45)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:34:14
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
Link.

I really must stop taking any notice of the people who found problems. They must all be incompetent idiots.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:35:23
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
For approximately 2 years I was involved in helping to develop an OS. I have never said that I was involved in writing them.
Looks like you're implying there's a difference between these 2 things. What's the difference between developing and writing exactly?
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:35:27
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
You are talking out of your backside as usual.
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:38:07
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Link.

I really must stop taking any notice of the people who found problems. They must all be incompetent idiots.

Right, so a forum where a few hundred (tops?) users have posted complaining about problems, on an OS that has been installed on at least 100 million computers or something?

And Windows 7 (and Windows 8 depending on whether that is also in your "rubbish list") never had any problems with Windows Update every either, right?

You'll find a hell of a lot more problems with Windows 7 than you will with Windows 8 and 10, on the internet too, so I guess that is still in Beta?

AAISP Home::1
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:41:53
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
You really don't know?
Standard User cheshire_man
(knowledge is power) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:42:19
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
...All this business about developing OSs is yet another red herring. I doubt that anyone here has done that.
I spent perhaps 10+ years in the 1960s & early 1970s writing mainframe operating systems. And for the next 10 years or so was involved with OS development for specific customers. Even in those situations where we controlled the hardware environment we had all sorts of issues getting a new release made General Release. There were quite a few heated debates about whether a new release was in a fit enough state for GR, a topic that was discussed at a Christmas dinner reunion only last month. Commercial considerations are inevitably a factor and sometimes trump technical judgement..

Tony
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:43:59
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
Exactly, money men pull the strings and determine release dates, not software developers.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:45:22
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
Whilst you continue to be:-
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Cocky and bad-mouthed to boot.
TinyMongomery is an intelligent person who respects others even when he strongly disagrees with them. In this case he and I disagree - but civilly.

On the whole I post in the same way. You have lost the right to any respect, given the bully-boy, insulting, bad-mouthed and ill-mannered way you behave, so tough.

Opine away.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:49:12
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
Why would I?
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:51:01
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Have you never been involved in a large software project? There's a lot more to it than coders.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:52:10
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
Define coders.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:52:21
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Curiosity.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:53:09
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
You're getting silly again. No thank you.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:54:44
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
So you don't know what you're talking about
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:55:47
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
Correction accepted. I'm sure that you know the difference between a program that is in beta testing and one that has been RTMed (however many undiscovered bugs it may still have).
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 18:56:19
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
But there's no suggestion that I ever have. Surely it's sensible to find out if I had before asking for how long?
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 19:00:09
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
The sense of the question, or the reason why I might ask it, is irrelevant. Simple logic dictates that you cannot draw the conclusion you did from the question.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 19:06:29
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
I'm afraid the implication was clear. I'm still uncertain what the differences are between developing and writing.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Thu 17-Dec-15 19:09:27
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
It is clear that you don't understand the difference.

I'm afraid this thread has got too personally bad tempered (I don't mean you) for it to be worth bothering with further. It's a shame that so many discussions end up with petty name calling.
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Thu 17-Dec-15 19:17:11
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
You really are an embarrassment, RobertoS. Making personal insults is going to get you into a lot of trouble. Time to shut up.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 19:59:53
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
Won't your making personal insults get you into a lot of trouble also?
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 20:00:21
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: neo_wales] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by neo_wales:
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
Are you sure about that? Remember MS have been downloading Windows 10 setup files to computers where that icon have not been ticked. I would not put it past MS to try and put more pressure on people to update.

i will turn GWX back on for a few days and see what happens.




the new nag have just come up and I have not clicked on anything to say I want Windows 10, so it seems this new nag will be on all Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 machines.

Oh no, that mean more computers i will have to sort out.


Your mates don't seem to have much luck with computers you sort out, perhaps leave them alone lol

I only know a couple of folk who've had running issues with W10, perhaps they are running newer kit than your chums?


Oh look it is my stalker, the sad nit who have nothing better to do with his life, go back and play with your chums on digital spy.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 20:01:40
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Exactly, money men pull the strings and determine release dates, not software developers.


That is very true.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 20:04:22
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
It is clear that you don't understand the difference.

I'm afraid this thread has got too personally bad tempered (I don't mean you) for it to be worth bothering with further. It's a shame that so many discussions end up with petty name calling.


No need for it really,

We should be able to have a discussion without name calling.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 17-Dec-15 20:12:24
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
You really are an embarrassment, RobertoS. Making personal insults is going to get you into a lot of trouble. Time to shut up.
Let's start with your first post in the thread smile, and then continue missing out none:-
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
As far as those whinging and whining about being a "beta" version. They are don't know what they are talking about. All operating systems and software are beta versions.
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
You really don't know what you are talking about. The release version is just the best beta version available at the time that a product has to be put out to market. Remind me again,how many years you worked for Microsoft?
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
You have no experience and know nothing about O/S software development. So when you are in a hole, just stop digging. Otherwise you are just going to embarrass yourself.
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
So how many operating system developments have you and RoberoS been involved in? Thought so. When you have worked for Microsoft for 10 years having been at stages involved in developing Operating Systems, I might value your opinions. Until then your opinions are just conjecture and worthless.
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Remind me again how many years you worked for Microsoft?
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Now every loser publishes their sob story about how Wndows 10 doesn't work them because they don't understand how to install and configure and troubleshoot it.
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Stop embarrassing yourself. Ignorance is temporary, stupidity is permanent
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
How many years did you work developing operating systems?
Thought so. Another amateur.
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
The usual petty and childish comments that we have come to expect from you. Time to grow up.
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Wow, how ignorant can you get?
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Wow, how ignorant can you get?
Well, you start off like you are now, then eventually you'll get better. It's called experience.
Shame you didn't
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
You should address your posts to someone who gives a [email protected]
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Wow, what a [censored]
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Usually a clean install resolves 99% of any problems. Many are not technically competent to do this and consequently blame the O/S as being a faulty product.
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Grow up and stop being so pathetically childish.
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
If you say so. I'll put my hands up and defer to your vast experience and knowledge of installing OS's. I must have been really unlucky with the 6000+ I have installed over the last 25 years, in that almost all needed configuring and setting up after the initial installation.
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
No one asked for your opinion. BTW. As you obviously can't read, I never, ever said I write operating systems! Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, so they say. There are many on here who are not surprised at your stupid comments.
Now one that breaks the pattern:-
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
For approximately 2 years I was involved in helping to develop an OS. I have never said that I was involved in writing them. I don't have that sort of background or ability. But it was a good insight in how the process pans out of bringing the OS to market. BTW, I am not referring to the Insider Program as some have implied. I was working in house. Hope this clarifies my involvement.
Back to normal:-
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
You are talking out of your backside as usual.
Another acceptable one:-
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
You really don't know?
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
For approximately 2 years I was involved in helping to develop an OS. I have never said that I was involved in writing them.
Looks like you're implying there's a difference between these 2 things. What's the difference between developing and writing exactly?
Ye gods, the light dawns:-
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Exactly, money men pull the strings and determine release dates, not software developers.
Then the post this is a reply to, quoted at the start.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the argument on both sides, I think your attitude is fairly obvious. I was also very amused by your final quote here - that the money men pull the strings. A very succinct summary of what I started with and have continued to argue. I believe the development managers would not have released it in July.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Thu 17-Dec-15 20:15:41
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Who cares what you think
Standard User cheshire_man
(knowledge is power) Thu 17-Dec-15 20:22:38
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
Moving this thread back to the original post.

Curiously wondering why it's entitled winfiws 10? Unless it's a case of the OP knowing how to type but the keyboard not listening to him - in this case, the adjacent key syndrome grin

Tony
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 20:29:29
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by cheshire_man:
Moving this thread back to the original post.

Curiously wondering why it's entitled winfiws 10? Unless it's a case of the OP knowing how to type but the keyboard not listening to him - in this case, the adjacent key syndrome grin


Good point.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 17-Dec-15 20:36:55
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rogerfp:
Who cares what you think
You apparently.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 17-Dec-15 20:41:50
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: cheshire_man] [link to this post]
 
It was only last night I figured out what it was! For a long time I thought it was some new gadget for Win 10 and the thread had got side-tracked.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 17-Dec-15 22:50:11
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
For a long time I thought it was some new gadget for Win 10 and the thread had got side-tracked.

The new gadget is "win-fi-ws". Windows turns wi-fi cards into wireless hotspots and streams the World Service. Version 10.

Oliver.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 17-Dec-15 23:10:33
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
That sounds plausible. But ...

w(hat)
i(f)
n(o-one)
f(inds)
i(t)
w(ill)
s(tream)

?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 18-Dec-15 08:24:25
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
6000+ installations over 25 years. That's 240 per year. Over one per working day. Plus all the configuring and setting up, plus sorting out any problems.


For a desktop engineer that isn't that bad to be honest. When I used to do that I could easily be installing 200 machines a month and supporting many more. You can quite happily install 30 in a day. I wouldn't have fancied doing it for 25 years but it isn't an unreasonable number to tout about - 20 odd a month is nothing.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 18-Dec-15 08:26:52
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
Really? Funny I installed it on many machines and didn't have any real problems. Oh and by the way Windows Server 2016 Beta 3 and 4 work quite well too.
Maybe you are doing something stupid with it...


There are definitely some issues with Win 10. I have currently installed on 2 PCs - one had problems with a couple of updates before the install but has worked flawlessly ever since. The other was a pretty new tablet with no "special" config and it worked fine for a while but then started refusing to download anything from either the store or windows update - just gets an error code for which there was no fix at the time, I haven't used it for a few months so don't know if it has been fixed - some day I will get around to rebuilding it.
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Fri 18-Dec-15 09:51:17
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Of course, many of these are concurrent builds. No one sits there watching the whole installation progress. Some were multiple test installs on different hardware with the latest build of the beta O/S which were downloaded from the US almost every day. Later, when working at a major news organisation, there were a lot of remote installs from RIS Servers. Windows installations are often the most boring thing to do and I'd totally agree I wouldn't want to do it constantly. Fortunately, these were peaks and troughs in those 25 years.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 18-Dec-15 10:13:04
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
25 years worth of installs makes you an installer not a developer/writer.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Fri 18-Dec-15 11:08:17
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
It used to take longer when Windows came on 30-odd floppies. But you could still do several at a time; it just got a bit boring swapping floppies.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 18-Dec-15 11:17:44
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
Before we had any official cloning/remote build software I wrote my own using assembler and various standard DOS utilities. That way we built one PC and then took the hard disk out and cloned it onto others - one weekend my team of 3 people cloned 100's of PCs using that method - and they were Win 95 at that point (we had to rebuild them all as the supplier screwed up the build on them and we needed them urgently).
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 18-Dec-15 11:57:52
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
So are you saying that W10 is ONLY for business users, that require some overpaid nerd that should be configuring using a server connection to save time and effort, and is not for home users that have less idea about an OS that should be configured to make it work?

You don't know what I do so don't presume you know me!

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User Pipexer
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 18-Dec-15 11:58:24
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
In reply to a post by Pipexer:
Really? Funny I installed it on many machines and didn't have any real problems. Oh and by the way Windows Server 2016 Beta 3 and 4 work quite well too.
Maybe you are doing something stupid with it...


There are definitely some issues with Win 10. I have currently installed on 2 PCs - one had problems with a couple of updates before the install but has worked flawlessly ever since. The other was a pretty new tablet with no "special" config and it worked fine for a while but then started refusing to download anything from either the store or windows update - just gets an error code for which there was no fix at the time, I haven't used it for a few months so don't know if it has been fixed - some day I will get around to rebuilding it.

Oh of course there are issues.... it doesn't make it beta though smile

WIndows Update has always been one of the slightly "less reliable" features of Windows since quite a while ago but for what it does it isn't too bad. Windows 7 and Windows 8 have had similiar annoying bugs.

AAISP Home::1
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 18-Dec-15 12:08:42
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
Are you saying that MS are lying about the ability to update a previous product?

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 18-Dec-15 12:38:20
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
FYI

http://www.alphr.com/operating-systems/1002095/16-wi...

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 18-Dec-15 13:03:57
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: Pipexer] [link to this post]
 
Was only responding to the fact you were suggesting people were doing something stupid to result in the issues. I haven't said it is beta and recent MS software has been far more likely to work than the stuff from years ago. From a corporate perspective the advice was to never go for a .0 release of MS software (or indeed almost any software). BSODs were a fact of life for many years and yet Win 7 onwards are very unlikely to have such a catastrophic failure.

I don't believe MS are any worse that others but they do still have a larger install base than any other desktop OS. If you look at Android and iOS they almost always have issues with a major release as well. OSs these days are so complex, have to support many configurations and have so many billions of lines of code that there will always be issues with any release - anyone that thinks their favourite OS doesn't have issues is most likely misguided.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Fri 18-Dec-15 13:11:54
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
An Android update completely bricked my Nexus tablet so it is now a useless hunk of plastic. Seriously unimpressed.
Standard User lelboy
(committed) Fri 18-Dec-15 14:41:15
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: rogerfp] [link to this post]
 
You are aware that you come over as a singularly unpleasant person?
I've been on the outside of this thread, but all I get from you is arrogance and rudeness to long-standing members, that you take exception to. TBB really could do without your "contributions" - as all they appear to be are diatribes against normal members. You say that Roberto S will attract bad comments? What planet are you on? Bob's contributions over the years have provided humour and help - which is more than can be said for you. I suggest you rethink your attitude - or perhaps leave TBB completely.
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 18-Dec-15 17:57:09
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
It used to take longer when Windows came on 30-odd floppies. But you could still do several at a time; it just got a bit boring swapping floppies.


I am so glad I never had to do that, my windows 95 came on Cd. My Amiga OS was on floppies, but not 30 by a long way.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 18-Dec-15 18:00:37
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:
An Android update completely bricked my Nexus tablet so it is now a useless hunk of plastic. Seriously unimpressed.


No way to get it back at all? I must admit I get a but worried when there is an update for my phone or tablet and I normally leave it for a while until I heard it is ok. My Nexus 4 phone will not be updated anymore, my Nexus 7 tablet was updated to the latest version of Android a few weeks back.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro and Linux , laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User rogerfp
(member) Fri 18-Dec-15 21:36:27
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: iand] [link to this post]
 
If you want any assistance, advice or resolutions on almost every aspect of Windows 10 from installation thru current issues, then I would recommend you have a look at this site http://www.tenforums.com
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 22-Dec-15 09:19:16
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
indeed.

The issue will eventually come to a head regarding the free upgrade but I believe the following process will workaround it.

1 - upgrade to win10 and make sure is activated, then downgrade again.

The win10 will then be activated for the hardware. So if you upgrade say 3 years later you wont have to buy it.

Sky Fibre Pro BQM - IPv4
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Tue 22-Dec-15 09:30:15
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
I wouldn't rely upon the Windows 10 key remaining valid if you reactivate the Windows 7 key. I suspect that you would have to go through the upgrade process, including activation, again. Wait until after the free upgrade period and you will no longer be eligible for the free upgrade.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 22-Dec-15 11:23:25
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: TinyMongomery] [link to this post]
 
Once you've upgraded you can extract the Win 10 key and use directly on a clean install or MS have said that it will detect the PC as already had Win 10 and not ask for the key at all. Personally I have grabbed the key from mine just in case.
Standard User TinyMongomery
(experienced) Tue 22-Dec-15 11:30:07
Print Post

Re: Using winfiws 10


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
I appreciate that. But I would expect Microsoft's systems to detect if you try to reuse an upgraded Windows 7 key. As the only valid reuse would be to downgrade to Windows 7 I would expect the associated Windows 10 key to be invalidated. It should be trivial to do this.
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