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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 23-May-16 09:13:24
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Microsoft playing nasty


[link to this post]
 
On a Win7 machine we have been nagged about doing an update to Win10 and so far have refused it each time.

Yesterday morning (Sunday) the PC was brought out of hibernate and we were confronted with a scree which confirmed that an upgrade to Win10 had occurred.

On Friday evening, it was put into hibernate, then around 22:00 on Saturday, a hidden process must have activated and started teh upgrade - WITHOUT approval or acceptance.

Fortunately there is a capability to reverse the changes - which took a while yesterday.

It is totally unacceptable for MS to invoke an upgrade especially when a user has already said NO.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 23-May-16 10:05:44
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
I agree, I use GWX control panel and it keeps that under control, also I have not installed any of the telemetry updates. The only problem is MS keeps moving the goal posts and if you are not careful will install more updates and the GWX needs updating.

But I should not have to install third party software to stop the the producer of a OS I use updating it to another OS I do not want to use and also to stop them spying on me.

I have to go and sort out a machine at the weekend that have been up dated to Windows 10 and something have gone wrong and it will now not boot, so this person can not use their computer for nearly a week as I can not get there until the weekend. Thankfully they got stuff backed up they back up every day, but what about if they did not back up every day and they had stuff on that computer that is important?

I have nothing against Ms putting up a nag once a month saying that windows 10 is free and if you want it then click here, but to start to download the files and then install it without people knowing is just wrong.


As you said it is easy enough to go back to Windows 7, but when you do, install GWX control panel as going back do not stop it happening again.
I suppose there is one good thing that came out of this, you can now update to Windows 10 when ever you want on that computer even after the offer have ended, Which is getting closer and the sooner it ends the better, but be prepared for MS to go nuts in the last few weeks.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8.1 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro, laptop by Linux

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Standard User caffn8me
(knowledge is power) Mon 23-May-16 10:17:55
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
KB3035583 is the update which installs GWX. Hiding this update only seems to last for a short time. Soon after it rears its ugly head again as an important update. Imoortant my ****.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

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Standard User Deadbeat
(knowledge is power) Mon 23-May-16 10:39:03
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zyborg47:
... I have to go and sort out a machine at the weekend that have been up dated to Windows 10 and something have gone wrong and it will now not boot...

This seems to be a fairly common problem which imposes inconvenience and unnecessary cost on the affected user. It's basically a form of ransomware and M$ should be brought to book over it.

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 23-May-16 10:52:57
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by caffn8me:
KB3035583 is the update which installs GWX. Hiding this update only seems to last for a short time. Soon after it rears its ugly head again as an important update. Imoortant my ****.


GWX control panel takes care of that one, the ones I have hidden and do not seem to come back are

KB3068708, Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry

KB3080149 another Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry

KB3150513, which is May 2016 Compatibility Update for Windows, in MS words, This update provides updated configuration and definitions for compatibility diagnostics performed on the system. The updated definitions will improve accuracy and help enable Microsoft and its partners ensure compatibility for customers who want to install the latest Windows operating system. This update will be offered only if KB2977759, KB2952664, or KB2976978 is installed on Windows 8.1, Windows 8, Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1), or Windows 7 RTM.

I think that may be the one that allows Windows 10 to get onto the computer.


I have notice by looking this morning and this have happened twice now in the last couple of weeks that my update settings have been changed, to allow update automatically.

Not impressed, leave my windows 8.1 alone MS.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8.1 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro, laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 23-May-16 10:55:46
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: Deadbeat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Deadbeat:
This seems to be a fairly common problem which imposes inconvenience and unnecessary cost on the affected user. It's basically a form of ransomware and M$ should be brought to book over it.


It is annoying because, I have not really got the time this weekend to muck around with it as I have a couple of video shoots to do and some editing. I may have to get the computer here and sort it out here in between times. Thankfully this person who owns the computer have also done the good thing of backing up Windows itself onto a DVD's when they first got the machine, so it will be easy to reinstall, which is probably the best thing to do.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8.1 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro, laptop by Linux

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Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 23-May-16 11:12:35
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
On a relative's 8.1 PC who didn't want 10 I deleted all the GWX scheduled tasks as well as all the files in the GWX folder. MS make this pretty difficult as there are ownership restrictions to work around, but I got there in the end.

This has actually held for months, I was fully expecting another update to set it back to the usual tray icon but it never happened, and they haven't been Win10 nagged at all since.

Oliver.
Standard User bobble_bob
(knowledge is power) Mon 23-May-16 13:27:11
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
I always check before downloading any updates so hide all the Win 10 ones. Never been asked to update as a result

Weirdly my sisters laptop is set to install automatically (its only used now and again) and never been nagged or automatically upgraded. Not sure why not but not complaining
Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Mon 23-May-16 19:46:18
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
I have Windows updates set to notify me so it doesn't install anything automatically - I killed the GWX process and renamed the folder "C:\Windows\System32\GWX" (needs re-doing after updates) - it doesn't nag me

However trying to sort out what was wrong with Windows Update took me a few hours over the weekend - MS seem very adverse to putting anything helpful in logs

I suspect if they continue with the rubbish of forcing things down your throat, come 2020 I'll likely be switching to Linux and/or Apple

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 23-May-16 19:50:57
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: Kenneth] [link to this post]
 
This one was set to notify too and it did for months. then it just did it!

It is the principle of it that has annoyed me. I had said No, No, No, No, No, and it totally ignored that.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Mon 23-May-16 20:26:04
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
This one was set to notify too and it did for months. then it just did it!

It is the principle of it that has annoyed me. I had said No, No, No, No, No, and it totally ignored that.


Unfortunately getting annoyed at them will do no good - they don't listen, and ironically as a developer I am the sort of person they are trying to get to develop for their new store - except they are doing everything to chase me away from Windows.

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User Kenneth
(legend) Mon 23-May-16 20:41:15
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Just seen this on another forum - Change of behaviour - clicking cross to close starts upgrade not stops it

Ken

Nostalgia is memory with the pain removed
Standard User bobble_bob
(knowledge is power) Mon 23-May-16 21:38:39
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: Kenneth] [link to this post]
 
I agree its shocking that they can allow this, but as ive mentioned before its easy to get out of any upgrade message by simple not installing the KB update that causes it. OK it takes a few minutes of Googling what the KB file will do, but it doesnt take much effort.

In general i download and install all security updates, and hide any "improvement to Windows" updates as these could be Windows 10 upgrades in disguise. And as i result not 1 upgrade message has ever appeared on my system.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 24-May-16 01:53:19
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: Kenneth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Kenneth:
Just seen this on another forum - Change of behaviour - clicking cross to close starts upgrade not stops it
Thanks for that. It explains how I updated my standby machine unintentionally, having accidentally clicked the GWX icon in the hidden icons then swore and hit the x on it.

I couldn't for the life of me work out what I did wrong.

The good news is all went swimmingly, bar feeling I needed to stay up till about 2am to make sure I didn't let it default to all the snooping options. There seemed to be no problems with the things I use on that machine, a couple of which I'd been unable to transfer to my current one. So a couple of weeks later I went for the update on my main one and all seems well after a day getting used to it. There are three or four "disabled" notifications I coundn't be bothered investigating - I didn't even read them. I thought I'd do that later, or deal with it if anything failed.

Too lazy re the "later", so far nothing has failed either.

All usage on both has always been normal desktop, with them set to boot to it, bar Microsoft Solitaire which is better under Win 10. It appears as a proper window and has a few improvements such as an auto-complete once you've solved the puzzle but have to move umpteen cards mechanically to their destinations. That was and is still present, acting automatically without a button, on one game. In the Daily Challenges it now also keeps the Goal on permanent view.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
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Standard User bobble_bob
(knowledge is power) Tue 24-May-16 06:20:54
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
Just keep hiding it. Ive done it about a dozen times so far. Aslong as auto download/ install isn't enabled it wont get on your system
Standard User caffn8me
(knowledge is power) Tue 24-May-16 08:34:26
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: bobble_bob] [link to this post]
 
I've hacked the registry so that it won't upgrade the OS anyway.

The update reappears as an important update but isn't automatically selected.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User brush
(newbie) Tue 24-May-16 16:32:05
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
On a Win7 machine we have been nagged about doing an update to Win10 and so far have refused it each time.

Yesterday morning (Sunday) the PC was brought out of hibernate and we were confronted with a scree which confirmed that an upgrade to Win10 had occurred.

On Friday evening, it was put into hibernate, then around 22:00 on Saturday, a hidden process must have activated and started teh upgrade - WITHOUT approval or acceptance.

Fortunately there is a capability to reverse the changes - which took a while yesterday.

It is totally unacceptable for MS to invoke an upgrade especially when a user has already said NO.


I installed W10 on my fairly new Lenovo & it's been OK, but I'm not that impressed really, other than that they're not doing badly in the catch-up department with the rest of the industry.
However, My old trusty Toshiba running Vista (very reliable only one BSOD in 8 years) died recently. I'm retired from 40 years in IT. One of my sons works in IT. When he heard my Tosh had died he said don't buy a new notebook I can get you one for virtually nothing. I took delivery of a 3 Years + Latitude with an SSD & installed Linux Mint.
It flies! Boot time is about 15 seconds (that includes me signing in) & guess what I'm finding that I'm using this more than my Windows 10 machine (there are very few applications that I *must* have from my Win PC - there's always Wine).
I'm now looking to turn my Lenovo into dual boot (slight problems there as I need to investigate UEFI technology & what I need to do in the dual boot scenario) & I'm beginning to think that I'm getting close to dropping Windows altogether - big wrench having grown up in my IT career from the days of DOS, OS/2 & then the big DOS application that was 16 bit Windows.
Bit of a severe solution but if you just want to get on with using *your* PC consider a Linux distro.
Standard User ian72
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 25-May-16 08:10:59
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
BBC are covering news on this today.

Is it possible that is what happened?
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 25-May-16 08:28:50
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
It may well be the case, if that was triggered after the PC was placed in hibernate on Friday evening. There are background processes which will being it out of hibernate and that may be one. It was not looked at or seen again until Sunday Morning when the enforced action was completed.

My objection is not to Win10 but the way nasty underhand way that MS are doing it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 25-May-16 10:38:45
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
It may well be the case, if that was triggered after the PC was placed in hibernate on Friday evening. There are background processes which will being it out of hibernate and that may be one. It was not looked at or seen again until Sunday Morning when the enforced action was completed.

My objection is not to Win10 but the way nasty underhand way that MS are doing it.


My objection is to both to be honest,k the way Ms is forcing people to download and install windows 10 is way out of line.
Once Windows 10 is installed they carry on being idiots and forcing people to download updates, trying to get people to use their cloud service, certainly when you install ten from a clean install, hiding customisations text and the part that says I do not want a MS account.

The constant monitoring with their telemetrics, which they tried to put onto my Windows 8 machine. The we know what drivers are best for your hardware so we will replace the drivers you have, for ones that do not work, like on my sound card.
Oh no you can't use Canon own drivers for your printer, you must use ours.

The awful start menu, but that part is easy to sort.
Cortana, which is a waste of space, universal apps, which are dumb down, and difficult to get rid of as a lot of the built in stuff like the humble calculator is now a universal app.

The look of windows 10 itself is awful and it seems like it is unfinished, which it is as it is now a service, so Ms can do what they like when they like and say it is part of the service.
If I did not need windows for Video editing I would go to Linux full time.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8.1 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro, laptop by Linux

Plusnet FTTC
Standard User Ancient_Mariner
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 26-May-16 22:49:25
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
Have a look at https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

Cheers!

Clive


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Standard User cheshire_man
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-May-16 06:31:36
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: Ancient_Mariner] [link to this post]
 
I used that yesterday on our Church office Win 7 PC which was about to upgrade itself. So far so good.

Tony
Happily running Windows 10 Pro on both desktop and laptop
We have more and more laws, and less and less enforcement
Standard User derekdel
(member) Mon 30-May-16 20:04:27
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
That is a bit underhand of MS doing that! If they can bring a pc out of hibernation to instal an update, especially one of this size, what else can they do without prior approval?

I get a notification everyday when I boot up the win7 Pc and generally hit the X to get rid of it. Lately I have been putting the Pc into hibernation for speed and conviencence so I will be watching for that one!

I have noticed a few quirks with win10 in regards to finding networks [laptop] and printers a few times but nothing drastic.

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Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 30-May-16 21:32:02
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: derekdel] [link to this post]
 
Not sure how they can bring a computer out of hibernation unless they keep some software running in ram. I know Windows 8.1 do not really close as default and still have stuff in a hibernation file, which is how it starts up so quick, but as far as I know the memory is empty.

Windows 7 never really have that mode, you have to put the computer into hibernation.

sleep mode is a different thing, that is when the machine rams is still kept alive, i know when my computer is in sleep mode as the power light keeps flashing, not that I put it in that mode very often and even when I am done using the computer, I switch it off at the mains and i have turned off the fast start up on Windows 8.

i just don't like windows 10 simple as that really, I tried it and did not like, never mind about the spying and other rubbish, I just do not like the UI.
I also do not see any advantage over 8.1 for me.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8.1 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro, laptop by Linux

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Standard User camieabz
(sensei) Tue 31-May-16 12:10:01
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: derekdel] [link to this post]
 
I happily used sleep mode for years on my last PC (non-SSD drive). Just disabled all wake on LAN features in BIOS and Windows, and disabled hibernate completely.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/windows/f/4412420-s...

With current PC (SSD), I shut down, as the boot up is 10-20 seconds.

Anyway, there's a registry fix - http://superuser.com/questions/357033/windows-update...
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 01-Jun-16 21:11:52
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Re: Microsoft playing nasty


[re: camieabz] [link to this post]
 
More dirty tricks, seems like MS are orcing people to update or reschedule, but cut out the cancel part. Article from the register here.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 8.1 pro 64bit, no dreaded metro, laptop by Linux

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