Has windows become spyware?

What ever you think, thisvideo from YouTubeis pretty interesting

What I think is that if people believe that Windows is spyware then they must be pretty stupid if they use Windows.

To save us wasting our time can you tell us which reputable computer security organisation published this Youtube video?

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

What I think is that if people believe that Windows is spyware then they must be pretty stupid if they use Windows.

Most stuff these days is spyware in that they want to get more and more info from you, even my TV is.
Depends on how you use the word spyware.

In reply to a post by gomezz:

To save us wasting our time can you tell us which reputable computer security organisation published this Youtube video?

They have a website called the POC security channel and it says We have years of experience testing every cybersecurity product on the market while producing some of the most watched and engaging cybersecurity content worldwide.
Some of the so-called reputable computer security organisations are not so reputable.

If you watch the video you will see what it is, he uses Wireshark on a new set-up of Windows 10 compared to Windows XP and looks to see what URL the computer is calling for, and Windows 10 is calling for some strange sites.

I just thought it was an interesting video, but it is up to you if you can't be bothered to watch it.

My view is that yes windows 10 and more so Windows 11 do send more data out and to be honest I thought it was only to MS, but it seems like that is wrong.
Sadly, the only way out of this is Linux, but since Linux don't have the software available or have problems with some hardware, we are stuck with Windows or Mac OS.

One of the reason I am looking at a Mac for my new computer is because of the way Windows is going and that if I have to use a OS that is becoming a closed garden, chuck adverts at me, push their browsers and search at me, try to force an account onto me and grab data in the name of telemetry then I may as well go for an OS that while have some of the problems, runs better and on a machine that use less energy and yet will run stuff better than some a lot of high-powered PC's running windows.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Most stuff these days is spyware in that they want to get more and more info from you, even my TV is. Depends on how you use the word spyware.

I think the term ‘Spyware’ should be reserved for malicious use. Windows Home edition is quite different to Pro and Enterprise, where there are controls. (Home seems to have little to no controls).

Anyone done a wireshark trace of macOS or iOS, as these OSes talk to the manufacturer all the time, people don’t seem to complain.

The TV is easy, pull out Ethernet cable and disable WiFi, and use an external device from Amazon or Google or Apple to watch stuff such as iPlayer or YouTube, or even HDMI cable from a PC or Mac.

The world of computer security has become murky as the vendors (MS / Apple) take over the level of trust, and we stop buying the likes of Norton, McAfee and similar. Also YouTube is interesting, but nobody independently validates any content.

Take it all with a pinch of salt.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

If you watch the video you will see what it is, he uses Wireshark on a new set-up of Windows 10 compared to Windows XP and looks to see what URL the computer is calling for, and Windows 10 is calling for some strange sites.

Much of the planet was on dialup when Windows 2001 was released. Not really a sensible comparison.

‘Strange sites’ could all be owned by MS. Was it really a clean install, or did they use a vendor disc/recovery tool? Too many questions.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I think the term ‘Spyware’ should be reserved for malicious use. Windows Home edition is quite different to Pro and Enterprise, where there are controls. (Home seems to have little to no controls).

Anyone done a wireshark trace of macOS or iOS, as these OSes talk to the manufacturer all the time, people don’t seem to complain.

The TV is easy, pull out Ethernet cable and disable WiFi, and use an external device from Amazon or Google or Apple to watch stuff such as iPlayer or YouTube, or even HDMI cable from a PC or Mac.

The world of computer security has become murky as the vendors (MS / Apple) take over the level of trust, and we stop buying the likes of Norton, McAfee and similar. Also YouTube is interesting, but nobody independently validates any content.

Take it all with a pinch of salt.

I know where you are getting at with using the term Spyware for malicious use, but many people will disagree with you.

I expect someone have done some sort of trace on Apple devices, I may have a search later when I get back home, just to be nosy.
Apple users are a different bread I think, not being nasty but a lot of them seems to take things as they are, I suppose a lot of Apple users are younger people, certainly for Iphones and have grown up with this, wanting to know what you are doing, where you are days.

It seems the norm for them, maybe why they are prepared to give so much data over to supermarkets and even to their local coffee bar just to get a few measly points. they seem to use apps for everything.

To be honest, I am getting to the point of why do I bother to resist, after all my house is full of Echo units, but then it is only me at home most of the time and the only thing they are going to hear is me talking to the cat.

If I pull out the Ethernet on my TV, it becomes a useless thing stuck in the corner, apart from being able to Play DVDs/Blueray.

You say the world of security is murky, I don't disagree, but it is not just security if you look at the video there seems to be some very strange websites Windows 10 chat to.

It was just something I saw while looking at YouTube and it seemed interesting.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Much of the planet was on dialup when Windows 2001 was released. Not really a sensible comparison.

‘Strange sites’ could all be owned by MS. Was it really a clean install, or did they use a vendor disc/recovery tool? Too many questions.

You're calling xp, Windows 2001, I suppose it is, but it is more for home users, I realise it was built on windows 2000 technology. I think a lot of people were on ADSL then, certainly in the UK, I had ADSL in 2000 a few months after it was available here. The U.S.A had cable. this is the problem with the always connected things, it gives manufactures of devices more excuses to get as much data as they can, in the name of a better service.
Yeah,

It would be nice if Ms would put an option to stop data being sent to them or other sites. Apple does at least allow people to opt out of telemetry on their computers, at least. i have no idea about the phones as i have never owned a Iphone.


By all accounts it was a clean install, it doesn't shock me, with apps running in the background on start up. I may have a look and see what data is being sent from my machine later, l just for the fun of it.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

It would be nice if Ms would put an option to stop data being sent to them or other sites.

What, like the options they put in Windows Professional to turn off all telemetry?

If you're worried use Windows Professional, not Windows Home.

But you really need to send some data to Microsoft (Apple, whoever) so that you can check for security updates and/or virus definition updates (an organization will manage this from a central server that they control and monitor - that's not a sensible option for home users). I'm more than happy to send that data and to send data about malicious software or spam that finds its way onto my computer. That makes life safer for the whole community.

Don't be too sure about Apple; they have a history of having collected data without telling the users they were doing so.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

To be honest, I am getting to the point of why do I bother to resist, after all my house is full of Echo units, but then it is only me at home most of the time and the only thing they are going to hear is me talking to the cat.

I think there are far greater concerns about online security from the use of smart speakers, Siri, Alexa, etc. than there are from operating systems. You give away a huge amount of information when you use these smart devices - and you can't control it like you can with Windows or Mac OS.

If you've got a mobile phone - however dumb - you are leaking all sorts of information all the time. Not just who you contact but also about your location in real time. A thief wants to know if you are out of the house - easy using data from your phone or your smart speaker. And don't get me started on (so-called) security cameras or smart doorbells.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

I think there are far greater concerns about online security from the use of smart speakers, Siri, Alexa, etc. than there are from operating systems. You give away a huge amount of information when you use these smart devices - and you can't control it like you can with Windows or Mac OS.

If you've got a mobile phone - however dumb - you are leaking all sorts of information all the time. Not just who you contact but also about your location in real time. A thief wants to know if you are out of the house - easy using data from your phone or your smart speaker. And don't get me started on (so-called) security cameras or smart doorbells.

Smart [Anything] : Nope
Siri : Nope
Alexa : Nope
Mobile : Nope
Win10 : Hacked and locked down to prevent auto updates / services doing what they want.
Win7 : Locked down

All it takes is time and not sacrificing your principles over privacy. What juicy things are they missing? Me shouting at Football Manager springs to mind of late. Nothing of importance to the rest of the world, but my privacy is important to me, so they can stick their unsolicited network connections up their fat pipe.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

It would be nice if Ms would put an option to stop data being sent to them or other sites.

What, like the options they put in Windows Professional to turn off all telemetry?

If you're worried use Windows Professional, not Windows Home.

But you really need to send some data to Microsoft (Apple, whoever) so that you can check for security updates and/or virus definition updates (an organization will manage this from a central server that they control and monitor - that's not a sensible option for home users). I'm more than happy to send that data and to send data about malicious software or spam that finds its way onto my computer. That makes life safer for the whole community.

Don't be too sure about Apple; they have a history of having collected data without telling the users they were doing so.

I do use Windows pro and there is no option to turn off all telemetry, there is an option to reduce it, but not turn it off. Even enterprise don't have that option, but there is a option to reduce it even more.

You may be happy to send the data, but we should still have an option

Mac OS asks if you want to turn on telemetry on set up, don't mean they don't send data mind you,

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

I think there are far greater concerns about online security from the use of smart speakers, Siri, Alexa, etc. than there are from operating systems. You give away a huge amount of information when you use these smart devices - and you can't control it like you can with Windows or Mac OS.

{/q]

What sort of info do you think you send with smart speakers? Lets see, Alexa turn on my lights, turn on heating, and maybe when I ask it question, and it knows what music I play. Sure it also knows where I am, well if fill that part in I suppose. It should only start working when you say the wake word, sometimes it mistakes thing and start up.

Yeah, i understand it collects data, as I have said before, most things do these days, the thing is it Windows never used to have this data collection and I need a OS to run the software I run.

If you've got a mobile phone - however dumb - you are leaking all sorts of information all the time. Not just who you contact but also about your location in real time. A thief wants to know if you are out of the house - easy using data from your phone or your smart speaker. And don't get me started on (so-called) security cameras or smart doorbells.


I don't disagree with you, well not for everything anyway. I would not have a camera indoors and my doorbell use a SD card and is pointing outside. Hopefully, the sight of cameras outside will make a theft think twice.

A dumb phone links to the cells, so in theory they can be traced that way, but the cells here are pretty large, so someone could be anywhere to be honest. I have an app on my phone that tells me what cell my phone is connected to, I can go halfway across the city before it changes.
The thing is, what can you do? You can protect yourself to a certain extent, but smartphones or some way of getting on the net is required to live these days. I know of someone who don't have a mobile phone of any sort, or the net, only have a bank account to get paid and then take most of the money out, and pay all their bills and shopping with cash.
While sometimes I think it would be nice to live that, it is a pain in the backside these days. Years ago, it used to be easy to pay bills that way, but companies make it more difficult.

i do try and use cash when i can.

The thing is what can you do?

You can be aware of the important data you leak and not worry about the trivial information that all companies collect.

Don’t switch your phone on unless you need to use it (does wonders for battery life); don’t let CCTV cameras or smart doorbells anywhere near your house; avoid smart speakers at all cost; relax about the fact that Microsoft might know which applications you use or that Tesco might know what you buy.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

You can be aware of the important data you leak and not worry about the trivial information that all companies collect.

Don’t switch your phone on unless you need to use it (does wonders for battery life); don’t let CCTV cameras or smart doorbells anywhere near your house; avoid smart speakers at all cost; relax about the fact that Microsoft might know which applications you use or that Tesco might know what you buy.

But the Echo dots are useful, and it took me long enough to get them I blame a mate, he introduced me to them, but I would not have anything to do with them, he even lent me one, but it stayed in the box in the hallway. He showed how they work at his house. But nope, never wanted one.
Then I changed energy company, and they offered me a smart thermostat, I thought that would be useful, able to control it while out of the house. Then my mate lent me the dot again connecting it up to the thermostat and the rest is history, sadly I got hooked into this smart home stuff.

As I said my cameras are outside so if anyone hacks into them, they will see outside,
I turn my phone off in at work, as I put it in my locker, while we are allowed phones now, I see no point in having it on me at work. But if i switch my phone off at home or out, I would get shot.

With Microsoft it is not just applications, it has been proved that personal data sometimes end up going to their servers, one reason I don't use online storage
As for Tescos, i don't use them. Aldi and Lidl normally, with a bit of Iceland and a tiny bit of Sainsburys. My main problem with Loyalty cards is that they are just another thing to muck around with and little gain

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

But the Echo dots are useful

A lot of people find Microsoft Windows even more useful than a smart speaker.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

Don’t switch your phone on unless you need to use it (does wonders for battery life);

Great until you want to be called <rolls eyes>. Landlines go to internet services starting this year, and many of us don't have a landline anymore.

I’m quite happy to switch my phone off and be free from interruptions. My service has a voicemail option.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

I’m quite happy to switch my phone off and be free from interruptions. My service has a voicemail option.

I guess you don't have vulnerable adults or children that you need to respond to calls about their care?? There are a LOT of different reasons, one size does not fit all.

My remarks were addressed to Adrian.

So why did you reply to jchamier? Surely you've been on here long enough to know how it works

Well you replied to me (in the thread) and you did on a public board, not in a PM... which means anyone can reply.

Sigh.

Everyone’s a critic. It would be nice to have just one thread in these forums that didn’t descend into this sort of silliness.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

I’m quite happy to switch my phone off and be free from interruptions. My service has a voicemail option.

i will do that some while out walking, not because of privacy, but sometimes it is just nice to be away from distractions. But I do get in the neck for doing so.

Yet another pointless thread started by you know who. Aka Adrian Mole

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

Yet another pointless thread started by you know who. Aka Adrian Mole

You are an idiot, you really are,
Just insults, because you have nothing else to say, just show the sort of person you are.

Some people may be interested to see how much data their computer sends and to whom, some of us got our own mind and don't follow like sheep and do what we are told like school kids, some of also see what is happening in this world with more and more data being collected and privacy in our lives vanishing.

I have said this before, you don't have to read it, Now I must go to work to pay tax so some lazy people can stay home and do nothing.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

You are an idiot, you really are,

Looking at the host of irrelevant, selfish and in some cases personally offensive posts that you have made over the last few weeks it would be easy to think that there is an element of pot and kettle here.

If you find this comment boring, you don't have to read it.