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Standard User kijoma
(committed) Fri 27-Mar-15 11:31:54
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?

[re: partial] [link to this post]
These are not barriers to Kijoma "getting on", This is not a desperate plea from a company with an empty order book , looking for free cash etc.. Kijoma is a growing profitable business , running as a genuine commercial entity with significant existing and ongoing investment to protect.

The issues raised affect ALL fixed wireless providers nationwide , I am reflecting how it affects us locally.

No other Wireless ISP is probably going to interject with their view as they have probably long since realised that this forum and website provides zero benefit for their business.

It is clear from this thread that the biggest contributors are those who believe they are entitled to receive a service , usually when they have failed to get what they really want via BT.

Followed by those with a pro BT agenda who take it upon themselves to post defamatory rubbish about Kijoma.

The only comments from existing customers have been positive and duly ignored / blanked by those mentioned above.

Kijoma's West Sussex network received no grants or hand outs for its formation. We had looked at this but every time we announced a plan the LA's would then throw hundreds of £1000's at BT to enable the area in question.

Our first commercial network we put up quietly in 2005 then announced it was live with customers to the relevant District Council with the naive thought that they would pass this on to anybody within the area who enquired about Broadband service.

Their response was to do the opposite, they told enquirers that there was NO broadband service there and that they were looking to fund a mesh wireless solution with the now long defunkt Internet Village Broadband (EVIB). (all documented)

To exacerbate this they gave the address database to this company who then sent out a flyer to all the properties in the area (covered by the new Kijoma service) announcing the planned wifi network, "in conjunction with the council" , offering subsidised install etc.. The network infrastructure was going to be paid for by the authority.

This of course had the effect of making a lot of people sit on their hands and not take up the service we had put in. The company in question kept them like this for over 6 months with "coming soon". Eventually nothing happened and the rest is history.

So the answer to funding is None at that point and negative support.

Later in 2005 we stumbled rather accidentally onto a bid process for provision of Broadband to Up/North/East Marden, Hooksway and Chilgrove. Despite being a known provider we were not included in this process from the outset. We discovered it as we were discussing providing a service there with a resident business.

The main bidder at the time was the same company as above and via the same council.

We bid a massive £5000 to provide for this area and won the contract. The network is still running to this day and has been upgraded 3 times to reach its current superfast state and has expanded coverage.

Also in late 2005 we bid to provide a service to a property owned by the then chairman of West Sussex County Council. It involved remote dedicated infrastructure and an off grid setup. the cost was around £2000 . This service still exists after the Chairman resigned and the two properties and others in Stoughton benefit from it.

Later in 2006 we quoted ~£2000 to fit infrastructure and a service for a district councillor in a remote location in Sussex. Although this was to provide the one connection, we also offered to provide to other properties in this location and the service is still there to this day.

In 2009 we took over the EVIB wifi mesh network in Plaistow west sussex , this network did not work but had a lot of money thrown at it by the same council, about £10000 alone in the year prior to us taking over. the provider had left the village to look after the network shortly after.

We took over the network at no cost to the existing customers (all 24 of them) or the public purse and replaced it with our own network. This covers nearly all the properties in the area and has a 97% take up of service (around 170 properties).

Our Staffordshire , Derbyshire , Hampshire and Surrey networks received zero funding.

So the figure you seek is £7000 in total funding in 10 years.

Additional to this there was a scheme once early on that subsidised all business connections to broadband , technology independent, but this was between that provider and the end customer, it was not money given to Kijoma.

I would suspect the Fibre currently being run between East Marden village and two properties (the ones we already provide to in Stoughton area) over a mile away via poles and direct burial cost more than £7000 to install.

So perhaps you can understand why I am so interested in protecting our significant time and money investment against state funded overbuild? If everything we had put in had been at least 50% paid for by the state then we wouldn't have an issue as it would be hypocritical.

Somebody mentioned we may of upset the council early on. I suspect this was around 2002 when we attended meetings about Broadband and expressed concern over the proposal from "Invisible networks" for six villages in West Sussex.

My concern was over technical capability of the proposal and as over £50000 of public money was going into it then it seemed a sensible point to raise. Unfortunately this was probably not the wisest thing to say, even though the money was spent and some potential customers paid up front for 15 months. The service never got past 2 installed nodes before the company voluntarily folded.

The equally funded Plaistow wifi mesh didn't work either and we had been excluded from that bid process . When questioned the council replied "we contacted somebody at Kijoma". at the time that would of had to be me. They didn't.

We have also been asking the County Council over the years to change the wording on their website as it often blatantly lied about our wireless service in the county or spread FUD. The did but usually changed the wording to a different form of the same thing.

So yes, we probably are not in their good books either.

This is more information than this forum deserves to be honest, but then if honesty is seen as a weakness then that is more indicative of the level of corruption people seem happy with.

As hinted earlier this forum provides zero benefit to Kijoma customers or Kijoma as a business. The main people who post are people like you Partial with the sole purpose of trolling a service you have never used and have no intention of using and those who for legitimate reasons cannot receive the service but feel entitled to receive it.

Is there a reason to consume any more of my time here?

thank you

In reply to a post by partial:
Thanks for your thoughts. I think it is well known in this forum your thoughts on the barriers to Kijoma getting on. Me, various councils, BT, the government, comments on village forums etc.

Just so we are clear on State Funding, Has Kijoma ever received grants from councils? Has it ever been suggested that councils should subsidise installation costs?

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE member
Standard User smurf46
(committed) Fri 27-Mar-15 13:33:40
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?

[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
We're not all the same. As true of Councils as of everyone else. Personally I think the administration of the Country has gone backwards as a result of the legislative changes since 2000, and things are now more like they were in the 1950s with politicians rather than professionals running the show. Like all human beings, they have their likes and dislikes, not always rational. It has advantages and disadvantages. And is the same as in every other country.

But the customer shouldn't suffer. I was extremely lucky, I suppose with a Fixed Wireless provider who fixed me up with service and could not have been more helpful nor informative, when they had to make an effort to get service to me. In turn I paid my fair share. They made a friend for life, but I would have hoped for the same care if they had to let me down as I got when they were able to help me (and it was certainly looking like it). BT and even the local Councils came up trumps too, in their own peculiar way. We all speak as we find, and shouldn't be criticised for that.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin
Standard User chilting
(newbie) Fri 27-Mar-15 14:36:51
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?

[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
Having studied how the market works I fully appreciate that you have basically been side lined by the BDUK process so far.
It has been suggested that BDUK3 may induce some element of fixed wireless. From as early as 2016.
With the speeds of fixed wireless improving all the time, are you optimistic that fixed wireless can take its place as a competitor to wired broadband if you receive BDUK funding..

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Standard User kijoma
(committed) Fri 27-Mar-15 17:54:26
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?

[re: chilting] [link to this post]
In reply to a post by chilting:
Having studied how the market works I fully appreciate that you have basically been side lined by the BDUK process so far.
It has been suggested that BDUK3 may induce some element of fixed wireless. From as early as 2016.
With the speeds of fixed wireless improving all the time, are you optimistic that fixed wireless can take its place as a competitor to wired broadband if you receive BDUK funding..

Thank you for a couple of interesting responses there.

The viewpoint with respect to Fixed Wireless really depends on what factors are considered.

Yes Fixed wireless can compete in providing the technical comparison and can easily exceed if FTTC is the metric used.

Yes it is far more cost effective with low to medium property count and widely spread out properties. The very ones the Goverment keep harping on about.

The technology is evolving far faster than other solutions, excluding FTTP of course, but the cost of FTTP is extreme in the same location scenarios, however this has not stopped FTTP being ran miles for single digit property counts in West Sussex at least.

Even if a wholesale service is offered, i very much doubt any of the current Openreach parasitic providers would wish to use it. Perhaps some of the smaller ISP's might as 100's or small 1000's of customers are significant to them.

So that could be seen as a negative, even though it isn't something within the control of the WISP.

There may even be conflict of interest issues with their contract with BT too?

Putting that all to one side though, Kijoma are not specifically seeking to get embroiled in the complex time consuming firey hoops required to receive funding via the BDUK process at this time.

What we are asking is that our service is recognised and not blatantly overbuilt using BDUK funds in areas we cover, especially with near 100% take up such as Sutton and East Marden Exchange areas.

I would be very interested to know the budget plan for the work going on in these two areas alone as most of it is FTTP, as should everybody else in the county who's money has gone towards it.

It is 100% overbuild of a 30 Mbps to the property service (soon to be 40 Mbps).


for evidence.

The homes and businesses in the many areas denied funding under the BDUK program, currently without any option of 2Mbps+ still should also be raising questions about this abuse of the fund.

Just because the County Council , in order to gain the maximum hand out, declared a commercial providers service as non existent does not excuse them the need to demonstrate value for money where it is spent now. They also need to explain why they fraudulently made the claim in the first place despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Here is a quote to ponder :-

"In the case of the non-ADSL exchanges, I accept that Kijoma has coverage in those areas
and that the prices are appropriate. However, a closed access service does make these
locations, in my view, “not-spots” by the definition I am using."

Mike Hicks - Broadband program manager - WSCC - 24/11/2010 in response to a letter to the Leader.

This was followed by a lot of "we are partnering with BT to.." stuff on their website and statements like "Although some areas have wireless , these areas lack the benefit of a fixed line service."

At one point they did a comparison of technology and stated that the cost of Fixed Wireless was the same as a Leased Line!

After the first open market review, which we responded to, they completely omitted our coverage from the resultant maps and data.

I could go on with this as have a huge stack of evidence from the last decade or so.

Prior to the BDUK programme the same person emailed to ask how they could work with us so they could avoid spending money unnecessarily in areas already served and in areas planned to be.

How things changed when cash came into the equation.

I wouldn't hold my breath on BDUK3 unless the EU change their obsession with all things Fibre.

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE member
Standard User vernall
(newbie) Wed 08-Apr-15 12:15:32
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?

[re: amelogen] [link to this post]
I have been trying to get some sort of reply from Kijoma to see if they can help me with my broadband. I have been trying for 2 years now without any luck. I have signed up to this forum in the hope that Kijoma will reply to this thred on the basis that they seem to try to defend their position on line.

So Kijoma despite a number of requests you have not replied to my question, if as you claim you are real then how about a proper responce to my various emails?

I have enabled link link to enable you to contact me!


Standard User sl1
(newbie) Mon 04-May-15 09:08:07
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?

[re: vernall] [link to this post]
Hi Bill

I too would like to ask if you currently have availability in our area (postcode: RH140AL) as you are listed as a provider on SamKnows. Please could you advise?

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