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Standard User berek99
(learned) Sat 25-Jul-09 18:26:10
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Any experience of Kijoma?


[link to this post]
 
Anyone had any experience of using Kijoma for wireless broadband?

I'm in West Sussex and their speeds look a lot better than I'm getting at the moment through my landline.

I've tried emailng them twice now to ask for more information without getting a reply, and I'm wondering if it's worth persuing further - at the moment I'm thinking that if they can't be bothered to even reply to a prospective customer then maybe I should just steer clear.
Standard User kijoma
(regular) Mon 27-Jul-09 11:02:24
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: berek99] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

Sorry if you have been trying to contact us, Due to the high demand for our service there have been delays in responding to new enquiries in recent months.

If you email [email protected] and advise them of when you enquired so they can identify it on the enquiries job sheet, then we can advise when we can deal with your enquiry.

I personally apologise if you feel we are ignoring you or feel we do not wish to have your custom. We are merely very busy and working 6-7 day weeks at present to keep up with demand for our service.

We would be interested to hear from other customers on the TB forums too, the problem is people tend to come on forums to complain, not say how good their service with a provider is etc..

I am off out now to satisfy more demand so will not be able to respond to any posts on here until later today.

Cheers

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
High Speed Wireless broadband ISP
The UK's top rated Wireless ISP 2005 - 2008 - ISP Review
Top 5 finalist in best UK wireless ISP - ISPA's 2008
Members of the Internet Service Providers association (www.ISPA.org.uk)
http://www.kijoma.net
Standard User Arcticpollen
(newbie) Mon 27-Jul-09 14:15:34
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Hi Bill - thanks for responding to the previous post and for the advice to mail the support address so you can chase up the enquiries.

I have taken the liberty of doing so! I look forward to hearing from you either on this thread or via the mail I have sent to your support mailbox.


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Standard User berek99
(learned) Tue 28-Jul-09 22:02:00
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kijoma:
If you email [email protected] and advise them of when you enquired so they can identify it on the enquiries job sheet, then we can advise when we can deal with your enquiry.


Hi Bill,

Thanks for replying. I have to say that I'm still a little concerned about getting a response from you to my original enquiry. I've already sent two emails, and then posted here, and now you're asking me to send yet another email, just to be informed as to when you can deal with my enquiry.

I appreciate that you're very busy, but this doesn't fill me with confidence that if I went with Kijoma, especially since it's a 6 month contract, that I would get decent and rapid support if I needed it.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but my current ISP does give me very good response to any emails I send, and I would like to think that I can expect that level of service elsewhere.

Thanks.
Standard User kijoma
(regular) Wed 29-Jul-09 00:39:15
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: berek99] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

We prioritise our work such that existing customer support comes first, new enquiries come next.. This is why there is a waiting list for new enquiries and we ask that they be patient while we get through this list in order to get to them..

Our system requires very little support and support calls and enquiries are very infrequent and usually relate to problems with customer PC's or national grid power issues which crash computers or expire switching power units etc.. ( power cuts/brownouts in rural areas are particularly prevalent.). There have been a lot of particularly messy grid power failures recently which have raised a few support calls so new installs take a back seat until these are resolved.

In response to your first post again , We have no email that matches what was requested and we do not know who you are?

If you could help us identify who Berek99 is then this would reduce the time wasted trying to find your enquiry amongst the many we get each day..

I appreciate your concerns and am also aware that a few people are unwilling to be patient and expect instant or near instant results. These are a minority but ultimately it is their choice if they wish not to wait.

thanks

In reply to a post by berek99:
Hi Bill,

Thanks for replying. I have to say that I'm still a little concerned about getting a response from you to my original enquiry. I've already sent two emails, and then posted here, and now you're asking me to send yet another email, just to be informed as to when you can deal with my enquiry.

I appreciate that you're very busy, but this doesn't fill me with confidence that if I went with Kijoma, especially since it's a 6 month contract, that I would get decent and rapid support if I needed it.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but my current ISP does give me very good response to any emails I send, and I would like to think that I can expect that level of service elsewhere.

Thanks.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
High Speed Wireless broadband ISP
The UK's top rated Wireless ISP 2005 - 2008 - ISP Review
Top 5 finalist in best UK wireless ISP - ISPA's 2008
Members of the Internet Service Providers association (www.ISPA.org.uk)
http://www.kijoma.net
Standard User Arcticpollen
(newbie) Wed 29-Jul-09 09:52:07
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Hi Bill - did you have any luck tracking down my mail sent on Monday around 14.15?

I sympathise entirely that you have to prioritise existing customers over new business - my own company is in the IT game and it is a constant balancing act where limited resources are available to service demand for innovative solutions.

I am quite happy to be patient but some idea of timescales would be very helpful!

Edited by Arcticpollen (Wed 29-Jul-09 10:02:56)

Standard User berek99
(learned) Wed 29-Jul-09 13:29:07
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Hi Bill,

Thanks for the reply. Re your giving priority to existing customers, that's the way it should be, and it allays my worries about getting good support - thank you.

I'll send another email and hopefully that will get through ok.

I'm quite happy to wait for a reply now that I know I'm not just being ignored, but it would be useful if you can give me some idea of how long it's likely to be before you can respond.

Thanks.
Standard User Windfreak
(newbie) Sat 15-Aug-09 10:03:11
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: berek99] [link to this post]
 
Hi you guys - did you ever get anywhere with Kijoma? As an ex customer myself, I can understand the frustration of dealing with Bill.

He seems to have time to spare to post in other threads on this forum and others around the net but getting anything sorted with his wireless business in the south takes an age.
Standard User kijoma
(regular) Tue 18-Aug-09 00:32:27
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Windfreak] [link to this post]
 
hi,

"as an ex customer" ? , we do not have many of those, could you enlighten me as to who you are? . you are new to the forum here and this is your first post so i am extra curious..

I rarely post on forums as despite your inference, we are getting an awful lot sorted with our wireless business, that is oddly enough why we are busy and there are delays in some areas, especially those that need work to cover..

I can only assume you are an ex customer because you have moved, hence the reference to "the south" ??.

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
High Speed Wireless broadband ISP
The UK's top rated Wireless ISP 2005 - 2008 - ISP Review
Top 5 finalist in best UK wireless ISP - ISPA's 2008
Members of the Internet Service Providers association (www.ISPA.org.uk)
http://www.kijoma.net
Standard User jjrobb
(newbie) Sat 12-Sep-09 23:19:03
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Dear All,

I'd like to share my experience of Kijoma as I have just moved house from an area with average broadband coverage (around 4M download adsl synch speed and using a good ISP - NewNet) to an area where the BT line checker said I would get around 256K-512K possibly needing a BT engineer's visit.

Arranging Installation:
I emailed Kijoma 4 weeks before moving house and asked to have the survey (and installation) done the day after moving in. It took just over a week to get a reply, but they confirmed my date straight away as requested.

Survey & Installation:
This part of Kijoma's service was exceptional. I was expecting the usual "bung up an aerial and plug it in as quickly as possible" sort of service that you might expect from a satellite TV company. In contrast, the installer spent almost an hour testing various locations around the outside of the house with various different sized aerials. My house is Grade II listed and he wanted to achieve the best signal strength without sticking up an eyesore of an aerial. He even went to the length of spraying the aerial black to blend in with the stove chimney!
The installation took a further two to three hours including running the network cable from the aerial to a Cat 5 network socket in the house, plus configuring my router to use the aerial as the internet gateway. Installations are done on a fixed cost basis but apparently most are done in about two hours.

Results:
My download speeds are now around 8M and upload around 1.5M with a ping to the local server of around 25ms (http://www.speedtest.net/). I am on the Business Standard tariff (£23/month plus VAT), which is offset by the fact that I now do not have a BT line to the house (saving £11/month line rental) as I use VOIP for my phone calls. VOIP works incredibly well (I was very sceptical that the quality would be acceptable) and you can even get a local telephone number for free (www.sipgate.co.uk). Another useful feature is that it can forward my answerphone messages to my email as a 'wav' file, or divert the call to another number.

So would I recommend Kijoma? If you are in a broadband 'not spot' or are fed up with your flaky and slow connection, then absolutely 100% without hesitation. Just bear in mind that their coverage is fairly limited (West Sussex mainly) and you have to be in reasonable 'line of sight' to one of their aerials (trees are a problem for the signal). Rain and wind (I speak from experience with last week's stormy weather) seem to have little effect on the signal.

The only thing that could have been improved was the speed of reply to my new installation query. However, since the installation was completed I've had no need to contact them as it just works...brilliantly.

(I have no connection with Kijoma other than being an extremely satisfied customer)
Standard User jjrobb
(newbie) Tue 15-Sep-09 09:57:29
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: jjrobb] [link to this post]
 
An update on my Kijoma wireless speeds - My connection has been tweaked (I believe it is an udate to the aerial control box firmware) and my connection speeds are even better:

www.speedtest.net results to Maidenhead server (50 miles away)
Download - 11.73 Mb/s
Upload - 1.61 Mb/s
Ping - 25ms

Amazing when the alternative (where I live) would have been at best a flaky 512k connection down a BT line.
Standard User Arcticpollen
(newbie) Thu 17-Sep-09 19:22:30
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: jjrobb] [link to this post]
 
JJRobb - glad to hear you have had such good service from Kijoma. Others have not been quite so fortunate.

Despite myself and Berek99 doing exactly what Bill asked us to do by mailing him our details again, then following that up with a PM direct to Bill, neither of us have heard anything back at all.

The Kijoma coverage map clearly seems to imply that we are both within a suitable area around Horsham but perhaps the map is overly optimistic and theyare not able to offer coverage after all. In any case, even a polite reply to repeated enquiries would have been better than the deafening silence we have both had to date.

At this rate, it will be an interesting race to see if I get a reply from Kijoma before BT get round to running some fibre out to my cabinet from the Horsham exchange. At least that would drop my line length to about 1500 metres.

Ho hum.
Standard User jjrobb
(newbie) Fri 18-Sep-09 00:15:35
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Arcticpollen] [link to this post]
 
I'm sorry to hear that your experience of Kijoma (or should I say 'lack of experience' due to no communication from them) has been poor. It did take them a while (over a week) to reply to my initial enquiry and I do think this is an area they need to desperately improve.

However, if you are able to get a successful installation completed then the service is second to none - my options would have been satellite (expensive & high latency) or BT phone line (slow) - mobile broadband has no coverage where I live.

You do need to have reasonable line of sight contact to one of their aerials for the service to work. I'm not sure where your local Kijoma aerials are located but in my area there are two on Blackdown Hill and I have decent coverage from one of them. If trees or buildings block your view of local hills then you will have a problem unless a suitable site can be found for your aerial installation.
Standard User Arcticpollen
(newbie) Fri 18-Sep-09 01:31:45
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: jjrobb] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply - I'm sure the service is very good if you can get it!

In the absence of any response from Kijoma, it might be more useful if their website gave the location of the aerials rather than the more generic coverage area maps.

I have given Bill my postcode and a description of the location but still no response. If there is a technical reason why he can't cover my area then I would be quite happy to accept that Kijoma is not for me.

I live on a new development of some 50 3 storey houses so we all have reasonable potential mounting points for antennae. We all suffer from extremely long telephone lines as we are serviced by the Horsham exchange which is only 3000m as the crow flies but have effective line lengths in excess of 6-7000m.

Bill - all you have to do is say "sorry, it's not possible" and I'll forget all about it and wish you all the best. If it can be done, then you have my e-mail address!
Standard User kijoma
(regular) Sun 20-Sep-09 00:14:20
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Arcticpollen] [link to this post]
 
Hi,


Thanks for the review jjrobb, always glad to provide a service. You are on the western edge of our service area (Near Fernhurst) and its good to see you still get good speed as advertised. For reference the radio link distances in total to your house are 42 km .

With reference to Arcticpollen etc.. I can only apologise that we have not got to your area yet to survey. We receive anything up to 40 enquiries like yours a day and as such we have to prioritise these into a sensible order based on coverage and demand per region.

Much that we would like to try and please everybody the minute they enquire, it is just not practical for a small company to do.. We instead focus on getting the demand met at a rate we can work at where the quality of the installation and service provided are not in anyway compromised. this means surveys and detailed map analysis, not "lob it up and hope.."

We pride ourselves in having a very low support requirement, sometimes days or weeks go past without a single support call and then the ones we get are usually due to the less than satisfactory national grid electricity distribution in some areas.

Taking out your frustration on a public forum at having a poor ADSL broadband service and then trying to attribute it to Kijoma not rushing to your aid is not exactly fair.

Thank You

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
High Speed Wireless broadband ISP
The UK's top rated Wireless ISP 2005 - 2008 - ISP Review
Top 5 finalist in best UK wireless ISP - ISPA's 2008
Members of the Internet Service Providers association (www.ISPA.org.uk)
http://www.kijoma.net
Standard User JonRennie
(knowledge is power) Sun 20-Sep-09 19:42:19
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Perhaps if you replied to these 40 requests a day, even to explain the situation, you'd be in receipt of fewer negative comments..?

wink Comms is hard wink
Standard User kijoma
(regular) Sun 20-Sep-09 20:24:36
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Kijoma - installation schedule


[re: JonRennie] [link to this post]
 
hi,

I agree, an automated responder would no doubt help? or perhaps a "call center" who can be programmed to say the same thing..? . It wouldn't mean they got installed any faster though so that would be a pointless cost..

The contact form advises people who use it that there will be a delay due to the workload of actually installing a service to people.. This is our prime objective , not answering a mass of enquiries everyday..

It is always nice to be popular and in demand as a supplier but resources have to be used to their best effect, sometimes people will have to wait longer for a response... sometimes they cannot tolerate the wait and retract their request or take to airing their views in public.

This we accept is their choice but I will not allow Kijoma to become reactive and start installing those who shout loudest or are the most abusive to the detriment of others on the efficient planned area response/install rotation system we use now.

cheers

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
High Speed Wireless broadband ISP
The UK's top rated Wireless ISP 2005 - 2008 - ISP Review
Top 5 finalist in best UK wireless ISP - ISPA's 2008
Members of the Internet Service Providers association (www.ISPA.org.uk)
http://www.kijoma.net
Standard User BatBoy
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 20-Sep-09 22:16:18
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Re: Kijoma - installation schedule


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
I agree, an automated responder would no doubt help? or perhaps a "call center" who can be programmed to say the same thing..?
The problem obviously is that you risk alienating your potential customers who will give you negative reviews. I can only imagine you hadn't thought of this before starting. I strongly recommend you give it some thought now and deal with it. It's likely to become a big problem.
Standard User kijoma
(regular) Mon 21-Sep-09 20:05:52
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Re: Kijoma - installation schedule


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
I agree, an automated responder would no doubt help? or perhaps a "call center" who can be programmed to say the same thing..?
The problem obviously is that you risk alienating your potential customers who will give you negative reviews. I can only imagine you hadn't thought of this before starting. I strongly recommend you give it some thought now and deal with it. It's likely to become a big problem.


Hi,

This is true, we do risk alienating potential customers who are unable to be patient enough to wait.. We would rather have negative reviews from people about not getting a service when they demand than have negative reviews from the customers we already have..

I do not agree that it will become a big problem, yes we may lose potential customers until we grow enough to bolt on more customer facing staff but this is the situation for all small businesses. Larger businesses have teams of installer monkeys and call centres but none of them, at least where we cover, do what we do, i.e. Provide a "fast for all" broadband service and at ADSL like prices.

If we doubled our service fees then we could add more staff, would the potential lost customers then bother to enquire in the first place? , i doubt it.

So as i said, negative reviews for not having our service we can live with as long as those we connect every day are happy and get the service they ordered..

When you say before starting, we started this nearly 5 years ago, the broadband industry was a completely different beast back then and people's expectations or frustrations were nowhere near what they are today, mainly due to the broadening gap between advertised headline speeds and actual throughput on xDSL services.. Our service offerings were a meagre 6 Mbps back then, but at the time most people had 512k. via ADSL...

cheers

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
High Speed Wireless broadband ISP
The UK's top rated Wireless ISP 2005 - 2008 - ISP Review
Top 5 finalist in best UK wireless ISP - ISPA's 2008
Members of the Internet Service Providers association (www.ISPA.org.uk)
http://www.kijoma.net
Standard User Arcticpollen
(newbie) Fri 09-Oct-09 12:04:07
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Re: Kijoma - installation schedule


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kijoma:
It is always nice to be popular and in demand as a supplier but resources have to be used to their best effect, sometimes people will have to wait longer for a response... sometimes they cannot tolerate the wait and retract their request or take to airing their views in public.

This we accept is their choice but I will not allow Kijoma to become reactive and start installing those who shout loudest or are the most abusive to the detriment of others on the efficient planned area response/install rotation system we use now.

cheers


Hi Bill,

I'm sorry that this thread has provoked some more negative comments but I don't accept the implication that myself or Berek99 have shouted loudest or been anyway abusive. It seems that most of the content posted on the thread is fair comment and I entirely accept that you are a busy small business and quite within your rights to run it as you see fit.

That said, you did specifically invite us to re-submit our enquiries which we both did. If I'm honest, my frustration isn't with my current broadband service but it's how tantalisingly close Kijoma are to being able to provide a service to me that I first enquired about with you nearly 15 months ago!

I understand what it's like running a small business but as I've said before, some idea of a likely timescale or a definitive "sorry, we can't cover your area" is all I'm really after.
Standard User mikehiow
(committed) Thu 12-Nov-09 13:19:16
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Re: Kijoma - installation schedule


[re: Arcticpollen] [link to this post]
 
Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I've had a similar problem - I submitted an enquiry several months ago, to which I never received a response.

I've just submitted another, I do wonder whether I'll get a response this time :/

There is patience and there is being ignored, several months without a response is being ignored.

ZeN > plusnet > entanet > <aaisp.net>
Standard User Arcticpollen
(newbie) Thu 12-Nov-09 15:08:18
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Re: Kijoma - installation schedule


[re: mikehiow] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mikehiow:
Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I've had a similar problem - I submitted an enquiry several months ago, to which I never received a response.

I've just submitted another, I do wonder whether I'll get a response this time :/


Probably best not to hold your breath...
Standard User kijoma
(member) Fri 13-Nov-09 18:50:05
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Re: Kijoma - installation schedule


[re: mikehiow] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

I am guessing your enquiry is the one i replied to last night.

If you checked our website back in June when you originally enquired you would of seen clearly we did not cover your area. This would of been why your enquiry was a low priority and unfortunately, like many in the same situation, did not get a reply.

Sometimes we have to make the decision not to reply to all the people who clearly are outside our area in favour of those who have checked the maps and find they are within it. Especially when we get flooded by them..

What we do though is to add the post codes to a list for each area and when there are sufficient we will look at addressing the demand there.. This is why we now have launched a new service that covers The north of the IoW , portsmouth, the manhood peninsula and across towards Beaulieu .

This is a next generation network offering "fibre like" speeds and has been commissioned in response to the high volume of enquiries for such a product there over the years.

The other poster who is regularly moaning here, we have a few enquiries from your area.. it is no use telling us "there are loads of people here who need it" , if they do not contact us then we do not know so the priority is not there for us.

Thank you

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
High Speed Wireless broadband ISP
The UK's top rated Wireless ISP 2005 - 2008 - ISP Review
Top 5 finalist in best UK wireless ISP - ISPA's 2008
Members of the Internet Service Providers association (www.ISPA.org.uk)
http://www.kijoma.net
Standard User mikehiow
(committed) Sat 14-Nov-09 01:01:59
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Re: Kijoma - installation schedule


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I'm grateful for the swift response, and look forward to the next response, with great anticipation. I'm keen to give the service a go, and if successful, I have a long list of customers in the local area who I'd be recommending.

For the record though, My area has been listed as covered on Sam Knows for a long time now, at least as long as I've lived here (A year and a half, perhaps?)

ZeN > plusnet > entanet > <aaisp.net>

Edited by mikehiow (Sat 14-Nov-09 01:04:59)

Standard User kijoma
(member) Mon 16-Nov-09 09:54:56
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Re: Kijoma - installation schedule


[re: mikehiow] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

Thanks for this, Samknows uses post codes and its not easy to get a system intended for "exchange" coverage to get it right for wireless all the time.. The North IoW was in an area of "available by demand" before so would of shown up by post code on samknows.

Its a stark contrast to this site though who now show fixed line/mobile providers but so far no long established FWA providers.

We are colating the responses for the trial and also talking to aerial installers on the island so it will be a while before we can connect you. not too long.. but a while smile

Cheers

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
High Speed Wireless broadband ISP
The UK's top rated Wireless ISP 2005 - 2008 - ISP Review
Top 5 finalist in best UK wireless ISP - ISPA's 2008
Members of the Internet Service Providers association (www.ISPA.org.uk)
http://www.kijoma.net
Standard User mikehiow
(committed) Mon 16-Nov-09 10:53:15
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Re: Kijoma - installation schedule


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Bill,

What technology does your service use?

Is it possible to arrange the aerial install myself, to speed things up a little?

ZeN > plusnet > entanet > <aaisp.net>
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Mon 14-Dec-09 11:13:53
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: berek99] [link to this post]
 
The speeds are good but as they are a very small company, there are outages from time to time and they can be slow in responding to requests for information / service. That said, the service is probably better than some of the big boys...
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Mon 14-Jun-10 13:27:06
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: berek99] [link to this post]
 
I know that this thread is old, but I think the comments about customer service are still apparent a year after the last post.

I am sure that Kijoma provide a technically very good service, but their response to enquiries from potential customers would indicate that they did their Customer Service course at Basil Fawlty's establishment, rather than a Charm school!.
Standard User kijoma
(member) Tue 15-Jun-10 12:18:50
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Hi Anonymous,

And here lies the eternal problem of all business..

If you have a great product at a great price, everybody wants it and complains because the overwhelming demand for it prevents everybody getting it when they request it.

If that company then employs more staff to deal with the demand the additional cost means the quality of the product falls as all the money is spent on getting as many customers as possible without any of it being spent on increasing the capacity of the network that feeds them. (the standard stack em high, sell em cheap oversubscribe model)

Performance drops, customers complain , the company then spends money it hasn't got on upgrading infrastructure far to late in the day , increases its prices to pay for it.. , demand drops off, customers complain about the higher cost and possibly leave..

So whichever way you look at it, people will complain..

I would rather Kijoma had a "technically very good service" that gets complaints from people who want to be customers than one that puts existing customers and the service they receive second in favour of new customer money.

We are spending a lot of time and money behind the scenes upgrading our infrastructure in order that capacity can keep up with demand so we can offer faster and better services.

If that is the Basil Fawlty way then i must of missed that season of the series smile


In reply to a post by Anonymous:
I know that this thread is old, but I think the comments about customer service are still apparent a year after the last post.

I am sure that Kijoma provide a technically very good service, but their response to enquiries from potential customers would indicate that they did their Customer Service course at Basil Fawlty's establishment, rather than a Charm school!.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
High Speed Wireless broadband ISP
The UK's top rated Wireless ISP 2005 - 2008 - ISP Review
Top 5 finalist in best UK wireless ISP - ISPA's 2008
Members of the Internet Service Providers association (www.ISPA.org.uk)
http://www.kijoma.net
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 01-Sep-10 19:53:18
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: berek99] [link to this post]
 
I have been a Kijoma Customer for over a year. They are brilliant. Without them our village wouldn't have broadband because BT have no intention of up grading the equipment in our area that would give us broadband.
Please don't give up on them. Is there not a phone number to call them??? If there is then call them. Cat Lomas
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Mon 27-Sep-10 17:14:59
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: jjrobb] [link to this post]
 
Hi Bill,

I have tried to contact you via your support enquiry form and various emails to [email protected] I have a client in Bucks Green which your service would be ideal for, I would love to have a quick chat to see how I can get the service setup for them. I appreciate you are swamped at the moment but Please contact Nick Day, my telephone and email are on various mails to [email protected]

Thanks
Nick
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 12-Jan-11 17:21:26
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I have been considering Kijoma, but having read this thread I am having second thoughts. Whilst wanting to provide the best service is highly commendable in this day and age, I am struggling to see the business logic in their proposition. What small business, with limited manpower and a seemingly very attractive proposition, prices their product at the same level as highly resourced ISP's and is then surprised when they cannot handle the enquiries. It is a brave man who can be so relaxed about turning customers away. A relatively cheap fix - Have you considered outsourcing your new customer enquiries so at least people are aware of their status in YOUR priority list?

JS.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Sat 16-Apr-11 15:37:20
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kijoma:
Hi Anonymous,

And here lies the eternal problem of all business..

If you have a great product at a great price, everybody wants it and complains because the overwhelming demand for it prevents everybody getting it when they request it.

If that company then employs more staff to deal with the demand the additional cost means the quality of the product falls as all the money is spent on getting as many customers as possible without any of it being spent on increasing the capacity of the network that feeds them. (the standard stack em high, sell em cheap oversubscribe model)

Performance drops, customers complain , the company then spends money it hasn't got on upgrading infrastructure far to late in the day , increases its prices to pay for it.. , demand drops off, customers complain about the higher cost and possibly leave..

So whichever way you look at it, people will complain..

I would rather Kijoma had a "technically very good service" that gets complaints from people who want to be customers than one that puts existing customers and the service they receive second in favour of new customer money.

We are spending a lot of time and money behind the scenes upgrading our infrastructure in order that capacity can keep up with demand so we can offer faster and better services.

If that is the Basil Fawlty way then i must of missed that season of the series smile


i think your missing the point.
you advertise the product on your website with no hint that your at capacity

ARE YOU TAKING MORE CUSTOMERS OR NOT?

there is only one way to contact you to find infomation about the product, we fill in the online form and wait months, then fill in the form again and wait months. a year passes, we go again to the website and fill in the form again and stil nothing!

at the very least you could email back 'thankyou for the enquiry we are currently not taking any more members yadyar.'

personally i think your aproach to new business enquiries suck balls.

you need to rethink it. or your end up with a worse reputation.
Standard User kijoma
(member) Mon 18-Apr-11 10:30:57
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
hi,

thank you for your message on the forums. as you post as anonymous, can i ask if this is Mr Chenery? , if so then you did indeed enquire last March and it seems the enquiry got mislaid, this we apologise for. You then filled in the "contact us form" on Saturday the 16th of April, Today is the following Monday , the first day we can respond. The email address you used on our contact form is invalid hence replying here as you did say you would be posting here.

Kijoma is not in any way at capacity as far as level of customers our system can support, we could be said to be at capacity with respect to installation of our service hence there is a lead time and that regrettably some enquiries get missed in the flood.

As i mooted in the earlier post, reputation is dependent on having customers who get the service they sign up to and pay for. We are not going to "stack em high" and adopt a policy of putting quantity ahead of quality, new customers before existing etc..

If your frustration is the poor quality service provided by other broadband services in your area then although i can sympathise , ultimately it is no reason to become abusive to us after 2 enquiries spaced apart by a year.

If you are the enquirer from Saturday then we will get back to you direct as soon as we can fit in a survey visit.

Thank you


In reply to a post by Anonymous:
i think your missing the point.
you advertise the product on your website with no hint that your at capacity

ARE YOU TAKING MORE CUSTOMERS OR NOT?

there is only one way to contact you to find infomation about the product, we fill in the online form and wait months, then fill in the form again and wait months. a year passes, we go again to the website and fill in the form again and stil nothing!

at the very least you could email back 'thankyou for the enquiry we are currently not taking any more members yadyar.'

personally i think your aproach to new business enquiries suck balls.

you need to rethink it. or your end up with a worse reputation.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 18-Apr-11 11:56:36
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
personally i think your aproach to new business enquiries suck balls.

you need to rethink it. or your end up with a worse reputation.


I'd say you need to remember that a relationship between a supplier and consumer (or business) is two way.

You don't have to use them, just as they don't have any obligation to supply you and with an attitude like that, could you really see any company falling over themselves to help you?

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Standard User smurf46
(regular) Mon 18-Apr-11 14:22:53
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
I can see both sides of the fence on this one. I can still remember that my first e-mail provider supplied all their customers with a "guide to net-etiquette" and one of the first rules was always reply to an e-mail (unless it's spam or inflammatory) and treat it like old-fashioned correspondence. I'm pleased that all businesses I've dealt with on-line have done so. It's common courtesy: how can you expect others to treat you with courtesy if you don't do so? We all if we don't get a response tend to assume the worst, that we're being snubbed. Of course that's wrong, it's because the other person is busy; but it seems to me that "the customer is always right" (even when they're wrong) isn't a bad business principle. The forums are full of praise from people who think they've been treated well (even when they don't/can't get what they want) it makes friends, ignoring people makes enemies.

The other problem it seems to me is that broadband as a product is over-sold by all providers (perhaps an inevitable by-product of competition) - OK when everything is perfect but it usually isn't, and the result is that perhaps those customers without the "perfect" profile for any provider will tend to get left by the wayside.
Standard User ukhardy07
(member) Mon 18-Apr-11 15:27:08
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I have to say 'the customer is always right' and it's so true...

at the very least you could email back 'thankyou for the enquiry we are currently not taking any more members yadyar.'

personally i think your aproach to new business enquiries suck balls.

you need to rethink it. or your end up with a worse reputation.


I have to agree and although it's not been worded paticulary nicely, it tells the truth. The way the business is run causes frustration. I can only imagine how angry I would be if Sky took this long to change my package / install my TV / Broadband.

It's just not satisfactory to keep customers holding for months on end for a response. Not responding to potential customers is a massive issue and is a problem with their business model.

I would not touch a company that thinks this is fine.
Standard User jenniferdesuza
(newbie) Tue 26-Apr-11 13:07:18
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: berek99] [link to this post]
 
My connection has been tweaked and my connection speeds are even better: www.speedtest.net results to Maidenhead server. Amazing when the alternative would have been at best a flaky 512k connection down a BT line...
____________________

You can find amazing link at : usenet and astraweb
Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Tue 26-Apr-11 19:57:27
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: jenniferdesuza] [link to this post]
 
A link to speedtest.net doesn't show anyone else your results. You need to provide a direct link to your speedtest test result.

Click on "My Results" then click on "image" (below share) for the result you want to share, copy and paste the "Share Link" into this forum.

O2 Broadband Premium LLU
Now on twitter @timmay2
Standard User thosking
(newbie) Mon 09-Jul-12 16:47:51
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

I feel the frustration of many here. It does seem very odd that a company ignores those prospective customers that are genuinely interested in spending money with them. That's the kind of treatment I expect from a nonchalant minimum wage hormonal teenager working in my local branch of Currys. I now avoid those stores like the plague.

I understand the need to prioritise comms to/from existing customers, but surely a company's growth is about growing as well as retaining a customer base? A bizarre strategy appears to be in place

My situation is that good old BT decided that our cabinet isn't going to be fibre enabled, even though all the others in my village are. No doubt their criteria for it being economically enviable is because they are on a nod and a wink from West Sussex council to get their BDUK money so are reigning back on the boxes with fewer lines connected to them (our box has 62, and this is the reason Iain Livingstone gave me for why we're being left out)

So.. I would like an alternative to a 4Mps connection... And I'd love that to be Kijoma... but without any kind of response from my mail I'm wondering if this is any more likely than whatever BDUK brings my way.

My area of the Kijoma service area is yellow but without any kind of time frame or likelihood of me getting the service I may as well be looking at Virgin Media's website, EE's 4G plans or TEF/VF's JV 4G plans.

PLEASE Mr Kijoma... give us SOME feedback, even if it's "we'll be able to provide our roll out plans in Qx of 201x"
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 20-Jul-12 12:37:10
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: thosking] [link to this post]
 
I too have been trying (and failing) to get hold of Bill @ Kijoma for almost a year. Of late, no calls or emails are ever even acknowledged, let alone returned.

I run a small IT services company in Sussex and would LOVE to be able to help out some of my customers in rural areas and get them a decent broadband connection via Kijoma.

I have one customer who already uses the service (in Plaistow) and the quality of connection is perfect, with no outages that I can recall.

I was chatting to a customer near Buck Barn services on the A24 a couple of days ago and he has had a similar experience - apparently Bill even came out to do a full on site-survey of a nearby business park, with a view to providing all the properties there with reliable wireless broadband. But no installation ever came of it (maybe this was because it wasn't a suitable area, but I saw open fields around so pretty easy for a line-of-site antenna setup I would think).

Appreciate it is totally down to the business owner at the end of the day if he wants to take on new customers or not, but it is massively frustrating as a potential customer when your attempts to make contact are just ignored!

Bill, I have engineers who would be very happy to help out on a sub-contractual basis so you can control your spend on man-power without having to commit to full-time staff. You are onto a good thing here - maybe we can help you push this out to a wider market?

Just give me a shout.

Julian - Woodstock IT
www.woodstockit.co.uk
Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Thu 02-Aug-12 20:47:11
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
You may have better luck contacting Bill through the Ubiquiti forums as he's been actively replying to threads on there as recently as yesterday. Don't hold you breath though.

Username: kijoma - http://forum.ubnt.com/member.php?u=4395

O2 Broadband Premium LLU
Now on twitter @timmay2
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Thu 23-Aug-12 13:15:03
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
hi,

This is the same I.T. company and person who i spoke to on the phone some hours before his post and have responded to via email many times?

A wholly unprofessional and incorrect rant. I hope your clients are aware of what you discuss publicly?

I am not going to detail the circumstances behind why your clients have had delays , suffice as to say they were instigated by the client, not us.

Also if we survey and find a location cannot have our service, this means just that. Regardless of how much mark up you may stand to make out of "recommending" us, ultimately if it will not work, it will not work.

This is why we avoid working through middle men, they lie to potential customers for their own ends.

As for the ranter in an area we do not cover with his 4 Mbps, you are the only person in that area of (60 odd?) affected properties who has bothered to enquire. Hardly a business model for any ISP to pursue adding infrastructure for.

Meanwhile we have recently installed a new super fast network in Staffordshire , All customers connected so far meet or exceed the 40 Mbps download they pay from £13.99 a month for and there are new connections being installed daily.

This is what we do when there is sufficient demand and when the County Council in the area acknowledges we exist and are open to our solution, i.e. not actively trying to suppress it. (Even if the Parish council are not so open minded).

West Sussex County Council have their strategy and refuse to budge from it.. go hassle them for the BDUK money for your area perhaps?

P.S. do not hound me personally on other forums and if you want any chance of a service from Kijoma then it is ill advised to pursue unfounded attacks on our business just beause you do not have the service.

That is the foot stamping/door slamming behaviour I would expect to see from a spoilt teenager who doesn't get their own way.


In reply to a post by Anonymous:
I too have been trying (and failing) to get hold of Bill @ Kijoma for almost a year. Of late, no calls or emails are ever even acknowledged, let alone returned.

I run a small IT services company in Sussex and would LOVE to be able to help out some of my customers in rural areas and get them a decent broadband connection via Kijoma.

I have one customer who already uses the service (in Plaistow) and the quality of connection is perfect, with no outages that I can recall.

I was chatting to a customer near Buck Barn services on the A24 a couple of days ago and he has had a similar experience - apparently Bill even came out to do a full on site-survey of a nearby business park, with a view to providing all the properties there with reliable wireless broadband. But no installation ever came of it (maybe this was because it wasn't a suitable area, but I saw open fields around so pretty easy for a line-of-site antenna setup I would think).

Appreciate it is totally down to the business owner at the end of the day if he wants to take on new customers or not, but it is massively frustrating as a potential customer when your attempts to make contact are just ignored!

Bill, I have engineers who would be very happy to help out on a sub-contractual basis so you can control your spend on man-power without having to commit to full-time staff. You are onto a good thing here - maybe we can help you push this out to a wider market?

Just give me a shout.

Julian - Woodstock IT
www.woodstockit.co.uk


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User partial
(regular) Thu 23-Aug-12 21:56:14
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Trouble is, Bill. This thread goes back years and your potential punters are all telling the same story year after year.

Indeed I have heard similar and worse first hand from punters in your area.

It's always the fault of the punter, the fault of the council. the fault of BT.

You need to up your game cos your service is viewed as second best by the punters and when the BDUK cash is out there and you are not at the party, you may find the game changes quickly.

Second best, poor customer service, ignored emails, berating potential punters and partners on t'internet and no longer a captive market who are forced to put up with lacklustreness.

You are some way off being first choice and second choice is going to come under extreme pressure as we move forward and you face real BDUK competition from BT, Sky and TalkTalk.

Best of luck out there.



.

Edited by partial (Thu 23-Aug-12 22:10:40)

Standard User kijoma
(committed) Fri 24-Aug-12 12:53:43
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
hi

If this thread is pretty much the sum total of complaints about Kijoma and all of them are from people who want to be customers but for various reasons cannot be, then I do not consider there to be a serious issue.

There will always be people unhappy about not receiving something they have found is better than what they have. That is surely how the TB forums started after all?

Go and count the amount of posts in other forums of people complaining about their wholesale fed service , there is a good chance it will exceed this multi-year thread in post count many times over..

We need to "up our game" ? , what does this involve? , how about Nextgenus style marketing, spend all the money on razzle and dazzle. After all this gains customers does it not? , service quality can come last.. Or do you mean provide incentives to local authorities?, monetary, wine and dine or otherwise?

If our service is viewed as second best then why do people bother coming on here whining about not having it? Where are all the customers complaining about the service they receive? , I mean ,it has been there for 8 years...

The BDUK cash?, or to put it more accurately, the revenue from taxpayers, aka all those who pay taxes including the "TV licence" tax ? Yes this will be spent and as the framework effectively excludes commercial providers like Kijoma it will be spent on the obvious national incumbent.

"BT , Sky and Talk talk" .. so you are referring to market 2 / 3 exchanges that have unbundled services from the two LLU operators? Or are you referring to the single infrastructure provided FTTC network the former will be paid to roll out so the latter two and many others can "resell" over it.. ?

2/3rds of the exchanges in the country are market 1 exchanges (BT sole provider) , the customers are fed from EO lines on the many of these so no FTTC for them. The cost of FTTC in market 1 areas with sparse widely spread population will remain prohibitive regardless of the BDUK spend.

Ah but.. They can put in some mini ADSL dslams.. meet the 2 Mbps objective and tick the box, job done? Right?

I find the customer service point interesting, we have always put existing customers first, again perhaps you could enlighten me as to your source of knowledge on our "poor customer service" ?. One of your colleagues? made a similar claim some time back on this forum but never backed it up.

I like the way you refer to BDUK and competition in the same sentence, an oxymoron if ever.. How can a framework with effectively 1 provider left on it, funded by 100's of Millions of public money be called competition to a self funded commercial company such as Kijoma ?

The term "Steam Roller" comes to mind, including the antiquity the term brings with it..

Can you not fathom why Kijoma are not looking to add infrastructure where there is a large ROI with that "competition" looming over us? Quite laughable.. Especially if the Local Authorities specifically exclude the service provided by a company that has operated in their county for 12 years+ ,in order to circumvent state aid rules.

As for captive market, we provide service to many who can and once did receive ADSL services, we add a layer of choice, genuine choice. not another parasite on an outdated wholesale system.

This is done commercially and profitably without any drain on public resource or funds. If you work for Openreach then well done on having the tax payer pay your salary, makes you proud huh?

Why do the likes of Openreach need these Millions? Are they not profitable?, is the technology offered unable to sustain itself commercially?. Either way this is a commercial problem for them, not a reason for state bail outs..

I can assure you we have no need to be the first choice, but we are a choice, one that some people have and many have not. Those that genuinely want service and are willing to wait for it without resorting to abusive behaviour eventually receive it if we cover them or we gain sufficient demand in their area to warrant expanding to cover them.

As for this Quote :-

Second best, poor customer service, ignored emails, berating potential punters and partners on t'internet and no longer a captive market who are forced to put up with lacklustreness.


I would like to think you were referring to the incumbent national monopoly as the description covers it perfectly.

The nation would benefit from removing the captive stranglehold , this is very true.

If genuine commercial providers like Kijoma and community driven projects such as B4RN were not ruthlessly discriminated against by an all powerful spoiled child then the nation could finally benefit from some genuine diversity and genuine competition with the many technologies and providers now available to provide it.

What happened to the BDUK framework? Oh yes BT priced out all the competitors with access to ducts/poles.. many of which were provided by the former state run GPO.. This child isn't going to let others play with their toys, oh no..

As long as Mr Hunt and all continue to pander to the child's every demand and tantrum then the situation will not change, especially for those most in need of a decent Broadband solution. aka what they may refer to as the non profitables.

Does it not concern people that somebody who seems very closely linked with Openreach (yes i have read your posting profile), seems to delight in the thought of removing an independent provider and the genuine choice provided from it?

Best of luck to you on that quest..





In reply to a post by partial:
Trouble is, Bill. This thread goes back years and your potential punters are all telling the same story year after year.

Indeed I have heard similar and worse first hand from punters in your area.

It's always the fault of the punter, the fault of the council. the fault of BT.

You need to up your game cos your service is viewed as second best by the punters and when the BDUK cash is out there and you are not at the party, you may find the game changes quickly.

Second best, poor customer service, ignored emails, berating potential punters and partners on t'internet and no longer a captive market who are forced to put up with lacklustreness.

You are some way off being first choice and second choice is going to come under extreme pressure as we move forward and you face real BDUK competition from BT, Sky and TalkTalk.

Best of luck out there.



.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 30-Aug-12 03:34:47
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Bill,

I completely agree with your sentiments regarding State Aid and the shambles that is broadband in this country.

And, the resentment that must be felt by all altnets, many of whom are heroes doing a fantastic job providing a great service.

But, please, do go and pick up a copy of "Guerilla Social Media Marketing" and thumb through it. Seriously.

Not patronising. Not aggressive. If anything "on your side". Just earnest advice.

Mark
Standard User partial
(regular) Thu 30-Aug-12 21:30:26
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the essay, Bill.

It's always someone else's fault why you don't answer emails from potential customers and partners and I am honoured that you have devoted so much wordage adding me to the list of those who are to blame.

BT, various councils, potential punters and potential partners and now me.

I'm sure this will be of some use as we move forward and BDUK offers BT, Sky and TalkTalk to the options available to your long suffering potential punters in Sussex notspots. crazy

Best of luck.

Edited by partial (Thu 30-Aug-12 21:31:10)

Standard User boriscrispin
(newbie) Mon 03-Sep-12 11:30:04
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
My experience of Kijoma is so far similar, but I do not want to throw my hat into the ring for any kind of flaming.

I have signed up to TB in order to attempt to contact Bill in order to get his service, after a month of attempting through the email (in variously desperate tones - probably very annoyingly) form on the Kijoma site. I hate to try and get attention and to use this forum in this way, but I want to try all avenues of communication before i have to begrudgingly sign up to a 'long term' 2mb BT/etc service.

The reason for my slight exasperation is that Kijoma seems to be a uniquely ideal service as our cottage is in a village very close to Petworth - the Kijoma HQ!

So if anyone can get in touch, I'd be over the moon, I appreciate there is a known demand for Kijoma but I was hoping something would come through within a month

boriscrispin at gmail dot com
Standard User partial
(regular) Mon 03-Sep-12 21:39:37
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: boriscrispin] [link to this post]
 
Sadly Kijoma are working a monopoly in West Sussex Not Spots and can pick and choose who they deem worthy of answering emails to.

This will change as BDUK money becomes available. I'm afraid this is a waiting game until the council decide who they are going to subsidise.

Kijoma's lackluste efforts have no chance of getting any BDUK money and sooner or later they will face real competition and choice.

Of course this will have nothing to do with poor customer service and unanswered emails, it will be down to BT, various councils and me. It's so unfair. And in my view a great shame wink

Take a look at what Call Flow are quietly getting on with in East Sussex. Winning not spot funding from the council and sub loop unbunding in niche slow spot areas. It could have all been so different for kijoma but I think it is too late for them medium to long term.

Edited by partial (Mon 03-Sep-12 21:52:57)

Standard User boriscrispin
(newbie) Fri 07-Sep-12 11:41:21
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
Well, that may be your opinion but it seems to be unnecessarily aggressive to me.

Naturally I dearly wish to use Kijoma's service, and I have no reason at all to believe they would pass my request over.

They simply must be (as they clearly state) overrun with requests, I imagine because of the unique and in-demand service they offer
Standard User smurf46
(member) Mon 10-Sep-12 18:10:44
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: boriscrispin] [link to this post]
 
I deal with lots of small businesses including another WISP as Kijoma aren't the only one (as often I prefer them to their larger counterparts) and in all cases when you get what you want it's lovely, but you just can't guarantee it. And their owners have their quirks (more than most, perhaps), which you have to accept. Variety is the spice of life. And sometimes they seem to have a funny idea about customer service, but they know their stuff and isn't that more important? So you have to be prepared to be disappointed. It's why we're used to dealing with larger businesses - things are so much more predictable and the bureaucracy might often be the best part of the business.

My only problem is the "BT are wicked and rubbish" argument is no more true than the same comment applied to all altnets. Why anybody demeans themselves by spouting such rubbish is a mystery to me.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Thu 13-Sep-12 23:44:15
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
Interesting comments , I think it worth noting that the ONLY people on here expressing any negativity about Kijoma are not customers, they are people who want to be customers but seem to fail to understand that the reason they have to wait is because of the massive demand for the service and "small" companies have a finite rate at which they can install service.

Within this month we have already installed 52 customers, during this time another 162 have registered demand via the website..

It is not that we do not want the custom, it is not that we want to be awkward or dismissive, it is simple economics, if you have far more demand than you can fulfill then you prioritize. BT do this by putting fibre in high population density areas first, all businesses do it that wish to get the best return on their investment.

In some ways having a couple of Openreach staff/contractors over the last year or so taking the time and effort to try and berate Kijoma on this obscure neck of the TB forums is complimentary and a validation of the service we provide too. Think about it.

My main critique is not so much the likes of BT but the way in which government continues to spout the mantra of choice. I.e. the choice given by multiple parasitic providers all using the same infrastructure .

All the while sharing its limitations and paying to use it. This to the exclusion of genuine independent providers with their own infrastructure and their own commercial product .

If the government had the same approach to pubs then they would ALL have to be Free houses. Supermarkets would have to sell each others own brand products and so on..

The term Altnet is demeaning too and i certainly do not refer Kijoma as one. Being independent does not mean we are a mere 2nd rate alternative to BT, as if they are somehow the defacto standard to measure all others against.

When looking at Quirks of a small business you need to balance this up with the extreme frustration of the vacuous support structure of large ones.



In reply to a post by smurf46:
I deal with lots of small businesses including another WISP as Kijoma aren't the only one (as often I prefer them to their larger counterparts) and in all cases when you get what you want it's lovely, but you just can't guarantee it. And their owners have their quirks (more than most, perhaps), which you have to accept. Variety is the spice of life. And sometimes they seem to have a funny idea about customer service, but they know their stuff and isn't that more important? So you have to be prepared to be disappointed. It's why we're used to dealing with larger businesses - things are so much more predictable and the bureaucracy might often be the best part of the business.

My only problem is the "BT are wicked and rubbish" argument is no more true than the same comment applied to all altnets. Why anybody demeans themselves by spouting such rubbish is a mystery to me.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Sat 13-Oct-12 17:59:11
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
It is not that we do not want the custom, it is not that we want to be awkward or dismissive, it is simple economics, if you have far more demand than you can fulfill then you prioritize.


It doesn't seem to be the problem of coverage or expansion leading to not being able to get the service.
From what I read in this thread it seems people just don't even get responded to. You could at a minimum put a notice on the "Register your interest" page saying that due to demand you might not be able to respond, or e-mail or call back those who enquire who you are "de-prioritizing" so they don't sit for months on end attempting to contact you or waiting for contact from you.
"Expectation management".

I've heard similar stories from multiple people about the delays and lack of contact when trying to get your service.. But I also do know someone who managed to get a successful install about 1.5 years ago and is happy with the Kijoma service and reliability and continues to be a customer to this day.

It may work for those who have it; sort out the pre-sales side and you may find your internet reviews and "rants" change. The "Small company" excuse isn't good enough; Let people know they won't be responded to or expand your sales side to cope.
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Fri 26-Oct-12 10:04:43
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I am guessing you have never used our contact form, it clearly states there will be a delay for enquiries. This has been there for many months.

It also clearly acknowledges the enquiry when it has been submitted.

We prefer to have happy customers like the one you describe and not fall into the standard ISP model of chasing new customers at the expense of the current ones.

I find it odd that nobody here seems able to comprehend the simple business logic in the following:-

if our order book is full - then people need to be patient or find another provider.

if you are outside a clearly shown coverage map - then responding to you is low priority . Saying "i am near" or "i have a clear view of" does not make it magically work. Especially if neither are remotely true.

If demand exceeds the ability to supply then prioritising the areas with highest demand and lowest cost to provide is sensible practice. BT do this all the time.

if we are working on a constant stream of demand then what benefit is there in employing people just to answer queries we cannot as yet serve or provide an ETA too?

Contacting us after you enquire with a spiteful rant or posting said rant on a forum does nothing to improve your chances of receiving a service. the relationship between potential customer and supplier is two way.

--

With reference to pre-sales and forum rants. If the forum rants are only from those who want the service and not those who have it then that shows the service is desirable , valued and worth waiting for.

Expanding the sales side would have no benefit at this time. Expanding the installation team would however and this has already happened in areas of highest demand.


In reply to a post by Anonymous:
It doesn't seem to be the problem of coverage or expansion leading to not being able to get the service.
From what I read in this thread it seems people just don't even get responded to. You could at a minimum put a notice on the "Register your interest" page saying that due to demand you might not be able to respond, or e-mail or call back those who enquire who you are "de-prioritizing" so they don't sit for months on end attempting to contact you or waiting for contact from you.
"Expectation management".

I've heard similar stories from multiple people about the delays and lack of contact when trying to get your service.. But I also do know someone who managed to get a successful install about 1.5 years ago and is happy with the Kijoma service and reliability and continues to be a customer to this day.

It may work for those who have it; sort out the pre-sales side and you may find your internet reviews and "rants" change. The "Small company" excuse isn't good enough; Let people know they won't be responded to or expand your sales side to cope.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User benbird7
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 03-Nov-12 15:58:53
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Just reading the post, it goes toward abolishing any form of responsibility on Kijoma.

Admittedly the customer isn't always right, but having the right attitude when dealing with them certainly helps get customers and retain them.

Edited by benbird7 (Sat 03-Nov-12 21:10:31)

Standard User drsox
(member) Sat 17-Nov-12 02:49:45
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kijoma:
We prefer to [..] not fall into the standard ISP model of chasing new customers at the expense of the current ones.

Looks like current ones also suffer frown
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/review/reviews/5670.html

Tom - www.mouselike.org
Standard User Hen4732
(newbie) Thu 02-May-13 16:10:08
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: drsox] [link to this post]
 
I have been trying to contact Kijoma to purchase their services for close to 6 months using the ridiculous Google Forms method on their .Net, .co.uk and .com addresses.

No response, nothing to even say my submission has arrived.

No simple, "No you can't have it" or "You can have it it will take xxx long."

I tried to connect with Bill Lewis via LinkedIn but that was blocked for spam reasons. The registered telephone number is various business directories is disconnected.

I've never had to try so hard to give someone my hard earned money!

It's completely bonkers, SamKnows lists Kijoma as an available service, their web site confirms it and because I am ridiculously far away from my cabinet even when they fibre that up it will make precious difference.

I am even considering paying the £1000's to lay Fibre to my home because Kijoma was my last hope of any decent broadband....

Bill if you are alive, respond so that I and other friends and colleagues can make you a successful business man!
Standard User partial
(committed) Fri 14-Mar-14 21:29:42
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
Be interesting to see how Kijoma moves forward now that BT, Sky and TalkTalk are moving in to their core areas via BDUK.



In reply to a post by partial:
Trouble is, Bill. This thread goes back years and your potential punters are all telling the same story year after year.

Indeed I have heard similar and worse first hand from punters in your area.

It's always the fault of the punter, the fault of the council. the fault of BT.

You need to up your game cos your service is viewed as second best by the punters and when the BDUK cash is out there and you are not at the party, you may find the game changes quickly.

Second best, poor customer service, ignored emails, berating potential punters and partners on t'internet and no longer a captive market who are forced to put up with lacklustreness.

You are some way off being first choice and second choice is going to come under extreme pressure as we move forward and you face real BDUK competition from BT, Sky and TalkTalk.

Best of luck out there.



.
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Sat 15-Mar-14 10:47:55
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
Yes it will be interesting to see who gains and who loses as a result of the targeting of Kijoma and other genuine commercial provider coverage areas by Openreach.

It is kind of complementary that they consider Kijoma worthwhile of this attention to be honest.

Your comment should leave a bad taste in many a mouth though to be fair, Especially those who run small businesses.

The summary of it appears to be "a highly profitable multinational company receives £Bn's of state benefits to compete with genuine commercial companies" .

I am sure this makes you feel really proud? The areas of the country who haven't benefited from your sponsors wonderous service for over 12 years may now be able to bask in the warm glow of constantly hiked line rentals and call centre hell just like everybody else.

Of course if they take up a Business service then they will gain a 24 hour fix time on line faults too.. well except if OpenReach happen to be busy or the right type of line engineer isn't available. Then it can be a week or more with no offer of compensation.

It has been more than noted that with state cash in hand, at least half of it from County tax payers such as myself/Kijoma that Openreach have used this money to target a competitor in West Sussex, not to target the people/businesses currently suffering the awful/diabolical OpenReach fed phone line based ADSL mess but those who already have a satisfactory option.

If this doesn't count as misuse of public funding then I would like to be informed of what it does classify as?

As for what it will do for Kijoma, not much really . The Openreach products of FTTC/FTTP have viability thresholds and distance/cost limitations that will only serve to create an even greater Have/Have not divide in exactly the same way as ADSL did all those years ago.

Are Openreach going to tap up the public purse to fit FTTC cabinets for every small hamlet in the country? I very much doubt this will work and DCMS are gradually realising this, as usual for gov departments though they always realise after they have blown the cash.

The potential effect of this benefit cheque driven "competition" though is real enough. Openreach may render it non viable for providers such as Kijoma to continue to provide a super fast service to the many areas that OR have no hope of ever providing to.

I can imagine Partial and all the other shills using social media/forums to push an agenda will have a party to celebrate if that happens.

Will the party be financed out of the public purse too? Hardly needs an answer does it.

Well done ..


In reply to a post by partial:
Be interesting to see how Kijoma moves forward now that BT, Sky and TalkTalk are moving in to their core areas via BDUK.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User smurf46
(member) Sat 15-Mar-14 11:13:00
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
My halfpenny worth: I just wish we could get beyond the soundbite argument. Headline speed isn't everything.

I have both 10 Mbps symmetrical Fixed Wireless and 30Mbps+ commercial VDSL2. The Fixed Wireless allows me to do everything I want to, and is nearly perfectly consistent and reliable. VDSL2 is congested, variable and less reliable. Everything is horses for courses. Others will have different experience and I may be an exception. Competition, even if perceived as unfair, and price are the name of the game in the modern world for all of us. None of us can change it, only live with it. And make it more or less difficult for ourselves. What impresses me about my Wireless provider is they never complain and where their service falls down, they quietly improve it. Takes time sometimes, but at least I can see they have been getting on with it.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin
Standard User partial
(committed) Sat 15-Mar-14 22:53:02
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

My own thoughts are that no taxpayer money should be spent on broadband rollout and it should be left to the market. However, if you are going to spend taxpayers money you should give it to Openreach as they are the ones that have the brands people want to buy, will deliver the project and won't go bust.

I think you will come under intense pressure now. I think you have wasted your advantage. I think you were always second best to the punters and punters won't need to plead with you to answer emails much longer.

I advise looking at becoming a FTTC reseller.

Edited by partial (Sat 15-Mar-14 22:54:06)

Standard User kijoma
(committed) Tue 18-Mar-14 17:02:23
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
Your initial thought is commendable and I would agree that public money should not of been handed out for Broadband Roll out at all.

All it does is distort the marketplace and create a mass of false hope via vacuous claims.

Openreach is an infrastructure provider, the same as Virgin Media and all the mobile providers.

Openreach do not have any brands at all as they are meant to be provider agnostic..

It has been made clear over the years since the inception of ADSL though that having a single monopoly infrastructure model with parasitic ISP's has not worked.

What it means is if a phone line supports 1 Mbps then regardless of what ISP an end customer uses, they will gain no more than 1 Mbps. This is a physical fact and one I raised with Bill Murphy at a meeting. He had the audacity to deny this of course.

This can be extended to "Fibre" , if an end customer can gain ~5 Mbps over a long line to a cabinet then that is all they can get form ALL wholesale ISP's.

If the line is too long or poor then Openreach declare a no go and that customer drops to zero choice. Not a single "Brand" .

To add a bit more.. Openreach have refused for over a decade to even fit ADSL equipment in some exchanges, despite plenty of lobbying and pressure. This means NOBODY can gain any Broadband from the Brands that you say punters all want..

We heard that it wasn't economically viable for Openreach to do these exchanges. Is Openreach suffering cashflow problems so severe that they cannot fit a DSLAM into an exchange and pipe in some bandwidth?

How much of the "Brand" providers revenue is spent on customer support? On top of what they pay for capacity and connections onto Openreach infrastructure?

Why do they need such large support structures? Could it be because they have to take the front line abuse from the end customers of their service, due to the plethora of problems they have absolutely no control over on the Openreach infrastructure?

You suggest Kijoma becomes an Openreach based wholesale "Reseller"? Are you serious? We do not have a massive call centre set up to take the stream of problem calls, we do not need one now after all.

Yes of course signing up customers would be easier as we would be one of those parasites and we wouldn't need to physically do anything , just send em a router and threaten them with high Openreach derived costs if an engineer has to come out to connect them up or fix anything.

I know that many of our customers feel the grass will be greener on the other side and the adverts on TV and the endless flyers in the post are all factual and honest.

Many more realise from experience that what they have works well, they have a personal non call centre based support service if they need assistance. Their service is installed by an engineer and they are working and online before the engineer leaves the property.

If you consider the way the Openreach / BT wholesale system functions is the peak of excellence then i fear you may be declared delusional by many and corrected by many more.

The dig about unanswered emails is kind of ironic when you consider the reason why Kijoma and other smaller providers are overwhelmed with demand is down to the failings of the Wholesale structure you praise.

I do not see the £1.4Bn+ of tax payers money they have been handed so far is going to wipe out providers like Kijoma. Far from it.

As for going "bust" , perhaps if BT spent more on its own huge pension deficit then the Government would be less scared of having BT go bust and consequently having to pick up this deficit!

Large corporations like BT, Banks etc.. don't go bust after all.. do they? They just become public subsidised as failure is not an option.

You are of course welcome to check Kijoma's stability/growth via sites like companycheck.



In reply to a post by partial:
Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

My own thoughts are that no taxpayer money should be spent on broadband rollout and it should be left to the market. However, if you are going to spend taxpayers money you should give it to Openreach as they are the ones that have the brands people want to buy, will deliver the project and won't go bust.

I think you will come under intense pressure now. I think you have wasted your advantage. I think you were always second best to the punters and punters won't need to plead with you to answer emails much longer.

I advise looking at becoming a FTTC reseller.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User Karl2014
(newbie) Tue 15-Apr-14 20:40:20
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
I like the fact a Kijoma representative sticks up for their 'customer service' ok the truth of the matter, its Bill (MD) Not many companies have the MD defending the business in a forum. (To busy playing golf with bankers and Mr Murphy)

Apart from that I want to be a 'NEW' customer. No I dont want to wait! I do want decent Broadband Connection and consistent speed, as a customer with any provider thats a priority for me.

With Virgin at present, no data caps, no bottlenecks, they inform me I have 152Mbps connection speed. Last three months, no more than 40Mbps! Yes I have spent hours in their call centre queues. I'm almost more 'an expert' than the staff they employ deem to be.

In the process of moving to a slow spot. Derbyshire / Staffordshire borders. So have again been in call centre queues. This time with BT & Sky (Oh Dear)

Bill does state. Contented customers do not praise them enough for their (Kijomas) Customer Service / Provision on forums.

I will update forum on progress with Kijoma install.
Standard User clyde123
(learned) Fri 18-Apr-14 18:19:38
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by partial:
, if you are going to spend taxpayers money you should give it to Openreach as they are the ones that have the brands people want to buy, will deliver the project and won't go bust.


I have no axe to grind in this thread/discussion, no dealings with Kijoma or any similar business.
But I saw this and just had to take exception to that statement!
To say that Openreach "have the brands people want to buy" is just baloney. OK, even assuming you mean BT, the vast, vast majority of customers don't even know there is anyone else other than BT. Maybe they can have Virgin. Or Sky. But that would be the extent of most people's perception of "brands".
No, that statement was either silly or intended to provoke.

As to "will deliver the project" -
I watched an Openreach engineer two weeks ago, him and his boss who got brought in, for two and three quarter hours. Looking in broom cupboards, climbing up into the loft, on the phone to goodness knows who all. This was to install a single PSTN line. You could see the cabinet just outside through the window. The job could not be done, seemingly, couldn't identify the right cables amongst the unused 50 or so pairs that already feed into that room. They left, job not done.

And then "won't go bust" - tell that to the taxpayers of UK, USA, and others who picked up the tab when other companies a few years ago were "too big to fail".
Standard User spinalman
(newbie) Tue 09-Sep-14 14:47:51
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
I have tried to get a response from Kijoma. I completed their form twice - initially in june 2014. Bill are you still in business?

I have 100 residents south of Godalming ready to take a service. Am i wasting my time expecting a reply?
Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Tue 09-Sep-14 15:41:21
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: spinalman] [link to this post]
 
Where exactly do you require service?

Kijoma run more as a hobby not an expanding business, they do what they like when they like and if they like, which is fine.

Feel free to PM me I can provide some free advice, having worked for a WISP before.

Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro:- Speed Test | TBB Ping
Now on twitter @timmay2
Standard User spinalman
(learned) Wed 10-Sep-14 10:07:30
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
I have PM's you.

We are in Surrey, South of Godalming and have around 100 residents outside the range of our fibre cabinet for super fast. We get 1- 3MBps down. We have no immediate prospect of improvement. We are mobilised and have a campaign, and ready to buy into an alternative solution. To me Kijoma appears dormant, but we are in line of sight of their Haslemere Black Down area, so there seems to be an opportunity. ... for want of a reply!
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Wed 10-Sep-14 11:41:33
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: spinalman] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

We have received your form submissions in August and September .

Your location as shown on our coverage maps is outside our currently served area.

Kijoma is very much in business and unlike many ISP's are presently upgrading our systems for the benefit of our existing customers in preference to expansion and chasing new customers.

Kijoma is a commercial company who's revenue comes from its customers, not grants or state funding, as such we endeavour to make investment decisions that benefit the people / businesses / schools that use and pay for our service.

As you are aware there is the BDUK programme, Surrey has all it's financial eggs in the BT basket, as does West Sussex. State funded competition is part of this process and unfortunately it has distorted the market whereby other non openreach dependent providers have a considerable level of uncertainty as to where to expand their services.

As you are not within a current coverage area then your enquiry would of not been responded to as a priority over the many enquiries we have within the areas we continue to invest heavily in that are covered.

Sorry we cannot be any more positive about your location at this time.

Thank you

In reply to a post by spinalman:
I have tried to get a response from Kijoma. I completed their form twice - initially in june 2014. Bill are you still in business?

I have 100 residents south of Godalming ready to take a service. Am i wasting my time expecting a reply?


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Wed 10-Sep-14 11:53:50
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
hi,

I see the one of the regulars on the forum are not slow in using defamatory language as soon as something "non BT" appears.

I find the hobby comment astonishing, Isn't it BT that do what they like and when they like and if they like or are given Billions to do so ?

I hardly think a profitable company such as Kijoma that provides services using the revenue from their customers is a "Hobby" . Hobby ISP's are the ones that go bust because they do not take the service they provide seriously and/or they make ill fated decisions on where to invest.


This "Hobby" operates in 5 counties and sustainably for over 9 years.. recession, government policy and a particularly bullying state funded competitor have as yet not squashed it.

Whatever your experience of the WISP you formerly worked for is, i'd ask you not to defame ours based on your experiences.

To save you from difficulties i would strongly advise that you retract your comments via this forum please by Friday and provide assurances that you are not going to provide baseless defamatory information to the poster you originally responded to.

Thank you

In reply to a post by 5km:
Where exactly do you require service?

Kijoma run more as a hobby not an expanding business, they do what they like when they like and if they like, which is fine.

Feel free to PM me I can provide some free advice, having worked for a WISP before.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User spinalman
(learned) Wed 10-Sep-14 12:10:00
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply Bill,

We enquired as we are just 2km from your catchment area, and within line of sight of Blackdown Hill within your network.

A simple reply that Kijoma is not planning on expanding the network takes 10seconds and avoids the feeling I (and clearly many others) get that you are a dormant company.
Standard User brandscill
(committed) Wed 10-Sep-14 12:59:16
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: spinalman] [link to this post]
 
Sadly Kijoma isn't a company with a good reputation on this forum, and for good reason. I am inside their catchment area and never got a reply!

BT ADSL 4.7Mbps (Actual)
Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Wed 10-Sep-14 17:29:25
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Hi Bill

Please re-read what I said as there is nothing wrong with what I have said. I have nothing against you and your business. You run for your existing customers, which you confirm in your reply and that is fine, it clearly works for you and your existing customers.

Kind Regards,
Tim

Sky Fibre Unlimited Pro:- Speed Test | TBB Ping
Now on twitter @timmay2
Standard User partial
(committed) Wed 10-Sep-14 21:26:46
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
I think it is possible that we have reached a new low here. frown

Edited by partial (Wed 10-Sep-14 21:27:15)

Standard User amelogen
(newbie) Wed 31-Dec-14 15:04:08
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: 5km] [link to this post]
 
I wish I had some experience of Kijoma but unfortunately I have requested on a monthly basis since April 2013 to have a site survey prior to installation. I was told that a survey was necessary despite my neighbour having Kijoma broadband. If Kijoma does not wish to have any new customers or provide a service to me then I wish they would make that clear. I would be prepared to pay their top business rate plus an installation fee to achieve a great Internet connection as my current speed is dial-up 512k and I see no signs of Surrey superfast anytime soon.
Is Kijoma real or imaginary? Do let me know.
Regards
Richard
Standard User brandscill
(committed) Tue 20-Jan-15 20:54:26
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: amelogen] [link to this post]
 
The best part about Kijoma is when West Sussex tell you they can't put FTTP in your area because Kijoma operate there and it breaks EU rules.

Post Office ADSL 4mbps
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Fri 23-Jan-15 13:01:44
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: amelogen] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

Kijoma is as real as BT or any other ISP . We cannot guarantee that we can provide our service to everybody .

Unlike the those dependent on Openreach our infrastructure is not being paid for out of tax payers Billions so we have to manage costs as it is our existing customers that are ultimately paying for it.

This means we prioritise work for existing customers including maintenance, system upgrades etc..

New installations come next within areas we cover. These are then sub divided based on demand per area . there is no rational in travelling across 5 counties to install a single property here, there etc..

This means we look at the cost to install a property and the amount of properties within the same area who have also asked for service. the more there are, the higher up the list they go.

I appreciate everybody would like to be number one on the list , but this is impossible, even for our funded competitors with much larger teams of people behind them.

If you contact Surrey "superfast" and ask them what their plans are for your area , then forward them to us as our current knowledge is they , like most authorities, have their eggs firmly in the BDUK basket to the exclusion of all others.

This will help us assess risk if we need to invest in your area to provide a more widespread service.

I cannot find your monthly requests on our system so perhaps submit another clearly identifying this please.

hope that information helps.


In reply to a post by amelogen:
I wish I had some experience of Kijoma but unfortunately I have requested on a monthly basis since April 2013 to have a site survey prior to installation. I was told that a survey was necessary despite my neighbour having Kijoma broadband. If Kijoma does not wish to have any new customers or provide a service to me then I wish they would make that clear. I would be prepared to pay their top business rate plus an installation fee to achieve a great Internet connection as my current speed is dial-up 512k and I see no signs of Surrey superfast anytime soon.
Is Kijoma real or imaginary? Do let me know.
Regards
Richard


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User amelogen
(newbie) Fri 23-Jan-15 23:31:57
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for replying and confirming that Kijoma exists. It does appear though that new business is not a priority as despite my conversations with your office who confirmed I am on a waiting list each time I have called, no record exists of that request or indeed those conversations.

I will do as you suggest and submit a further request.

Can you let me know how many new subscribers Kijoma has installed in the last month, quarter and year?

As I mentioned my neighbour has Kijoma and therefore I would proffer that in order to provide a service to my home further infrastructure costs are irrelevant when I can see Blackdown from my window or am I missing the point.

Kijoma will remain a figment for the time being.

In reply to a post by kijoma:
Hi,

Kijoma is as real as BT or any other ISP . We cannot guarantee that we can provide our service to everybody .

Unlike the those dependent on Openreach our infrastructure is not being paid for out of tax payers Billions so we have to manage costs as it is our existing customers that are ultimately paying for it.

This means we prioritise work for existing customers including maintenance, system upgrades etc..

New installations come next within areas we cover. These are then sub divided based on demand per area . there is no rational in travelling across 5 counties to install a single property here, there etc..

This means we look at the cost to install a property and the amount of properties within the same area who have also asked for service. the more there are, the higher up the list they go.

I appreciate everybody would like to be number one on the list , but this is impossible, even for our funded competitors with much larger teams of people behind them.

If you contact Surrey "superfast" and ask them what their plans are for your area , then forward them to us as our current knowledge is they , like most authorities, have their eggs firmly in the BDUK basket to the exclusion of all others.

This will help us assess risk if we need to invest in your area to provide a more widespread service.

I cannot find your monthly requests on our system so perhaps submit another clearly identifying this please.

hope that information helps.


In reply to a post by amelogen:
I wish I had some experience of Kijoma but unfortunately I have requested on a monthly basis since April 2013 to have a site survey prior to installation. I was told that a survey was necessary despite my neighbour having Kijoma broadband. If Kijoma does not wish to have any new customers or provide a service to me then I wish they would make that clear. I would be prepared to pay their top business rate plus an installation fee to achieve a great Internet connection as my current speed is dial-up 512k and I see no signs of Surrey superfast anytime soon.
Is Kijoma real or imaginary? Do let me know.
Regards
Richard
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Sun 25-Jan-15 20:08:05
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: amelogen] [link to this post]
 
hi,

You are correct, new business is not top priority, there are plenty of ISP's out there who put new customers ahead of existing as it is..

How many customers we have installed across 5 counties in the periods you mention is not something we wish to share, sorry.

As already mentioned a lot of our time is being spent on upgrading our systems for our existing customers using the revenue generated from those customers. This in our view gives them the clear right to be 1st priority.

We live in a time where Billions of tax payers funds are being spent on Openreach derived solutions. If you are unhappy that this quite rightly affects other providers and their investments and therefore you, then you should take this up with those who run the BDUK process.

Being able to see a hill where we have an aerial does not neccesarily mean you can "see" the aerial. Even if you can it does not necessarily mean we have capacity left on that aerial for you at present.

We do not have a policy of stack em high, sell em cheap. With all the negatives that causes.

Kijoma remains in reality here, We are no more a figment than "BT" is to the many without their service and with 15 years behind us we will continue to operate as dynamically as possible to adapt to the market and it's many distortions.

thank you


In reply to a post by amelogen:
Thank you for replying and confirming that Kijoma exists. It does appear though that new business is not a priority as despite my conversations with your office who confirmed I am on a waiting list each time I have called, no record exists of that request or indeed those conversations.

I will do as you suggest and submit a further request.

Can you let me know how many new subscribers Kijoma has installed in the last month, quarter and year?

As I mentioned my neighbour has Kijoma and therefore I would proffer that in order to provide a service to my home further infrastructure costs are irrelevant when I can see Blackdown from my window or am I missing the point.

Kijoma will remain a figment for the time being.

[
[/quote]


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 25-Jan-15 20:15:30
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kijoma:
How many customers we have installed across 5 counties in the periods you mention is not something we wish to share, sorry.
That'll be zero then.


____________________________________________________________________________All_Quiet_on_the_Western_Front__________________
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Mon 26-Jan-15 21:51:32
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
and that is one reason why these forums are pretty pointless for ISP's, it has long term trolls who make baseless and purile comments like that and the admins are fine with it.


In reply to a post by BatBoy:
In reply to a post by kijoma:
How many customers we have installed across 5 counties in the periods you mention is not something we wish to share, sorry.
That'll be zero then.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User partial
(committed) Tue 27-Jan-15 22:00:50
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
To be fair, Bill. People are at liberty to ask you questions about customer installation numbers on the forum. Especially given the apparent 'unique' customer service you give to potential and existing punters.

After all, you are not adverse to sticking in FOI requests to the long suffering Parish Clerks in your 'monopoly' areas. crazy
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 28-Jan-15 12:14:24
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
As we are mentioned I believe we have a right to respond

Posters are allowed their opinions, and that does mean that parties may not agree on things, but so long as people are arguing within the site rules then it can remain.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Wed 28-Jan-15 12:40:33
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I cannot disagree with your comment , i was referring to messrs "Batboy" and his blatant troll comment. It brought nothing to the discussion apart from emphasising why many will avoid the forums.

Combine this with "Partial" the OR shill and his non contributions , it is no wonder this particular basement forum category is all but dead.

The only people who post on here to complain about Kijoma are those who want it and don't have it for whatever reason. The few customers who have taken to posting praising for the service have been ignored or ridiculed.

The forum is therefore zero value to our business and customers as it appears for all the other FWA operators who no longer post in here.

If that is the plan for the site and therefore acceptable then fine, it is your site after all.


In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
As we are mentioned I believe we have a right to respond

Posters are allowed their opinions, and that does mean that parties may not agree on things, but so long as people are arguing within the site rules then it can remain.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 28-Jan-15 13:30:21
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
You are entitled to your opinion and you have voiced it.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User chilting
(newbie) Wed 28-Jan-15 18:22:19
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Hello Bill
You made it clear to me back in April 2011 that your service wasn't available to me in West Chiltington. Since then I have been upgraded to FTTC but as I am 2km from the cabinet my speed is only 3.5Mpbs. WSCC tell me that I have two providers to my postcode and they are unable to guarantee any future funding to improve my broadband because it would be considered by the EU to be overbuilding. They don't name you as the other supplier but I can only assume that they must be referring to you. Could you please confirm if you are still unable to supply broadband to West Chiltington. My postcode is RH20 2JX.
Thank you.
Peter
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Thu 29-Jan-15 20:51:02
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: chilting] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

The situation with West Chiltington , or at least the part we currently do not cover, is a complex one.

Kijoma had looked at extending service and had mentioned this to those who enquired in the area. From this we stated we would need more demand to make the additional infrastructure expense viable.

The village had put a strong 300 ? or so response into the race to infinity so we knew a lot more than 5 or 6 people needed service. We also noted how much the local politicians all pushed/backed this process.

We tried to engage with the community and were invited to join the community forum by its admin, this we did. However as soon as we joined and posted about the proposal the forum administrator took to making baseless derogatory remarks about Kijoma.

I responded by asking why we had been asked to join the forum only to receive abuse, the net result was all the posts were removed and our account closed by the admin.

A total of 2 posts..

From this as a viewing guest we saw the push for a wireless solution via another provider on the Isle of Wight. This was accompanied by a post by the site admin that stated wrongly that Kijoma had refused to cover the area because it was not viable. 5 enquiries was not viable true, but 20 or more and it would of been.

As there were no more than 5 enquiries for our service we did no pursue expansion into the related area.

As it turned out the IoW solution failed to materialise and most recently FTTC has rolled out out of the public purse , this has left we suspect a lot of properties out of range of this provision. Fortunatrly most of them are already Kijoma customers and have been for many years.

The difficulty here is that if the properties that remain without are only a few and some are also not within our current coverage then adding more coverage is not going to be a viable commercial option.

Kijoma receives no external funding. Investments we make come out of our customers pockets and as such it is our duty to ensure it is spent wisely and ultimately productively.

With reference to "overbuilding" , that seems to be an excuse we have heard many people given recently when it comes to not investing BDUK funds into FTTx in some areas of the county.

Kijoma are often named as active in the area and people are told they cannot overbuild our network.

Perhaps it maybe an idea to ask WSCC why are they spending a inordinate amount of money running FTTP to the exchange areas of Sutton and East Marden when these areas have over 95% take up and 99% coverage from Kijoma and have had since 2005 ?

Perhaps also ask them why they use the excuse above when they have told us in writing that as far as they are concerned Kijoma's service is only "basic" i.e. 2 Mbps and is not considered super fast.

This automatically gives them clearance to finance overbuild, as they have done so already in quite a few areas of the county. If you look at their BDUK spending maps and our coverage map you will see an unsurprising correlation.

No sane and seasoned ISP is going to place long term investment into new service areas in the current climate of BDUK fuelled uncertainty.

Your 3.5 Mbps meets the government objective of 2 Mbps minimum so that box has been ticked.


In reply to a post by chilting:
Hello Bill
You made it clear to me back in April 2011 that your service wasn't available to me in West Chiltington. Since then I have been upgraded to FTTC but as I am 2km from the cabinet my speed is only 3.5Mpbs. WSCC tell me that I have two providers to my postcode and they are unable to guarantee any future funding to improve my broadband because it would be considered by the EU to be overbuilding. They don't name you as the other supplier but I can only assume that they must be referring to you. Could you please confirm if you are still unable to supply broadband to West Chiltington. My postcode is RH20 2JX.
Thank you.
Peter


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Thu 29-Jan-15 21:09:57
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
Yes, people may ask what they like, but like BT refusing to tell the PAC (Public accounts committee) yesterday where the areas they were not going to cover were, despite admitting they knew, does not mean we have to answer it.

It is good to see you take interest in local politics too, albeit relating to an FoI request made 3-4 years ago.

Perhaps you would like to fill the forum in with some detail on that FoI request and what information it revealed?

Anybody can search whatdotheyknow.com and find the full transcripts of the requests.

Part of what it revealed was blatant defamatory commentary against Kijoma between two council officials, information which went on to form the fraudulent basis of the funding claim for the extensive and expensive work undergoing today.

The FoI request was made due to the complete change in attitude by the county council to Kijoma once the BDUK process started. Demonstrated and evidenced many times on their website via FUD and lies about the Fixed wireless service present.

We even had the head of their Broadband programme put it in writing , counter signed by the leader of the council that although recognising the good speeds and pricing, as far as they were concerned our service did not exist.

It will all come out in the end, the PAC committee, albeit not very effectively yet, are at least now investigating and asking questions about the value for money for the ~£2Bn given to BTOR.


In reply to a post by partial:
To be fair, Bill. People are at liberty to ask you questions about customer installation numbers on the forum. Especially given the apparent 'unique' customer service you give to potential and existing punters.

After all, you are not adverse to sticking in FOI requests to the long suffering Parish Clerks in your 'monopoly' areas. crazy


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User partial
(committed) Thu 29-Jan-15 21:23:04
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: chilting] [link to this post]
 
With Kijoma, It's always somebody else's fault...
Standard User gr0mit
(learned) Sat 31-Jan-15 10:06:13
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by partial:
With Kijoma, It's always somebody else's fault...


This does seem a rather unfair comment...

I also run a wireless ISP in Hampshire, and we are facing the same issues as Kijoma. Namely, that BT are cloaking the taxpayer-funded deployment in secrecy, and we have no idea whether the investment we make in wireless infrastructure will be overbuilt by taxpayer money or not. Consequently from a commercial perspective, it makes sense for us to sit it out and see what materialises, and only deploy wireless service where

1) BT/BDUK have no sensible way of delivering. (small cabinet, long D-sides, no power, planning problems etc etc)

2) Areas where the cab is already FTTC but long D-sides make it useless.

3) where one or more customers are willing to fund the total deployment cost, with a rebate plan should other users take the service.

Until the BDUK scheme is open to detailed public scrutiny on a per cabinet, full postcode/address disclosure, I think it is fair to state that the current process is restricting commercially funded deployment of other solutions such as mine and Kijoma's. Don't forget, we get no public funding and we need to make a profit in order to eat.

Best Regards
Tim Robinson
TxRx Communications Ltd
Fast wireless broadband for Basingstoke www.hiwifi.co.uk
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Thu 05-Feb-15 10:43:30
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: gr0mit] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

Sadly it is the kind of arrogant remark I have become used to from Partial, if he speaks for the organisation he promotes/works for? Then he is no better than a professional dole scrounger who gloats about buying something working people work hard to afford.

What with all the cash the BT group are throwing about with acquisitions at the moment I would guess it is only a matter of time before somebody in Government with some teeth shows up and investigates the abuses.

At present plenty of rope has been let out, lets hope it gets reeled in soon so genuine businesses can operate without the uncertainty.

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User partial
(committed) Thu 05-Feb-15 22:58:19
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by kijoma:
Hi,

Sadly it is the kind of arrogant remark I have become used to from Partial, if he speaks for the organisation he promotes/works for? Then he is no better than a professional dole scrounger who gloats about buying something working people work hard to afford.

What with all the cash the BT group are throwing about with acquisitions at the moment I would guess it is only a matter of time before somebody in Government with some teeth shows up and investigates the abuses.

At present plenty of rope has been let out, lets hope it gets reeled in soon so genuine businesses can operate without the uncertainty.


Sadly, i am well used to Kijoma's vitriol. It's always somebody else's fault.

Me, BT, Parish Councils, County Councils and the government. As well as those who have the cheek to expect emails to be answered.

In the case of West Chiltington, we have an exchange that was shut and moved to Storrington way back in the 80s. Leaving customers on long lines ripe for Kijoma to exploit..

Kijoma had the chance to roll out to 'chilting' way before BDUK was even dreamed of. They could roll out to 'chilting' today. They choose not to possibly due to comments on an internet forum nigh on 10 years ago? crazy

It's always somebody else's fault.
Standard User mikejp
(regular) Thu 05-Feb-15 23:18:46
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
"They choose not to possibly due to comments on an internet forum nigh on 10 years ago?" - no, partial - it was actually because he could not be bothered/was too stretched/etc etc. You will also note that he lies about coverage in the area on his 'map', which claims he 'covers' our 'chilting' but then admits here on this thread that he cannot - is that not mis-representation? He has a 'few' customers right on the west end of the exchange area in Nutbourne as far as I know.

As to only getting '5 enquiries' - probably because people knew it was a complete waste of time? The proof was - and is - all over the internet if you search - yes -
"those who have the cheek to expect emails to be answered.." as you put it. I had to hunt him down thouugh several of his many house moves around the south to get a phone number and that didn't do much either. You cannot say we did not try, but it is horses and water. Ask WSCC.
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Fri 06-Feb-15 19:21:39
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
You may believe what you like.

Where are all the other companies rushing to put a service in there? , you completely forget the "race to infinity" and the "click4internet" proposal, not to mention the DIY wifi plan. the comments were not 10 years ago i can assure you.

The term "make your bed ,now lie in it" comes to mind, how is a commercial company meant to react to hostile negativity and a desire to do anything else but use their service?

We certainly were not going to invest with the demand of ~5 people and the back drop of the other points mentioned.

We ask you not to forget Kijoma already provide service to many areas around WC and have done for ~10 years. This is because the people there genuinely wanted the service and asked for it.

If you have a sore head because the decisions made and the direction took has not resulted in a super fast solution for you then that is not a fault of Kijoma.

We did try and engage on more than one occasion, the confirmed demand never met our thresholds.

If you have evidence to the contrary then please provide it. Find 20+ properties in need and we will look into it again. It is that simple.

We are not out to exploit anybody , there are or were plenty of sharks out there charging £50+ for 2 Mbps , our prices have not risen in 10 years but the allowances and speeds have all increased. That is not the action of an exploitive company.

This year new infrastructure will mean even faster speeds and new tariffs with even better value.. Our customers are effectively paying for this so they deserve the benefits first.

thank you

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1975254274.png
Standard User partial
(committed) Fri 06-Feb-15 22:48:30
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
We are now regularly seeing reports here of punters in West Sussex apparently being told by the council that they are not in scope for further BDUK investment because Kijoma operate in their area.

Yet Kijoma apparently do not want to sign up those customers. Perhaps this is because of comments made on an internet forum way back when and wishing that those punters have made their bed and should lie on it?

I can understand Kijoma wishing to protect their monopoly areas from competition and the great lengths they have gone to to try to protect their monopoly.

I find it difficult to understand why Kijoma spend so much time, effort and moaning trying to prevent BDUK investment in areas they have no intention of serving.
Standard User brandscill
(committed) Sat 07-Feb-15 17:52:54
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
I am one such West Sussex resident. Cabinet upgraded but to far away, not allowed FTTP because Kijoma operate in my area! Never heard back from an enquiry though.

Post Office ADSL 4mbps
Standard User mpellatt
(member) Mon 23-Mar-15 07:35:41
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: brandscill] [link to this post]
 
I'm reselling an Orbital connection to one of my customers in a small business park with little sign of FTTP, and the experience with them is superb. Pretty good communication (not perfect, but the install was planned for early Jan '14 - remember the weather then ?). It's a 10Mbps symmetric connection - it's not cheap, but it does support both their remote desktop connectivity and VoIP connections for around 6 users very well.
So - if Orbital/VFast can communicate effectively, and deliver too, in rural Kent, what exactly is different in West Sussex that means Kijoma can't, and why is this apparently all the fault of BT/Government/County Council/Parish Councils ??
This really is a serious question and not a troll - I'm deeply disappointed that public money is going into a satellite "broadband" trial - it's as if gamers don't exist !! Apart from the really isolated properties at the bottom of valleys, it seems that terrestrial wireless is a much superior technical - and in theory commercial - solution for the deeply rural areas where community fibre doesn't happen. So the success, or otherwise, of providers using this technology is crucial.
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Wed 25-Mar-15 10:38:42
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: mpellatt] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

I agree with your comments on satellite and it can easily be seen why HM gov is going down that route. "Satellite covers everywhere" so it is an easy tick box tick when trying to cover up the extensive funding of FTTC/P that has missed so many out,

The unsuitability of Satellite for anything real time is not something they understand or care for i suspect. Headline speed is.

Fixed Wireless is a fast growing technology and can fulfil the demand in the final 5% or whatever buzzword they like to use currently. We have been doing it for over 10 Years here.

Your Orbital example is a good one, as you say it may not be cheap but it is effective. Unfortunately a lot of business estates/units here want to pay "talk talk" prices and gain "leased line" service in our experience then moan because we do not rush to provide this.

I am unsure why you think Kijoma does not communicate effectively? If it is based on the handful of non customer gripes on this Forum over the last 10 years of Kijoma service then I think you are being less than fair/balanced.

Kijoma provides service to areas in 5 counties, West Sussex being the largest. We look after existing customers first and connect new ones accordingly. We as an early adopter of the technology have had to replace some of our networks and client aerials three times in order to keep up to date with technology and performance. This take time and precedence over new demand.

The cost to the end customer has not risen as a result and it also means we do not have a deluge of complaints from existing customers on here. Kijoma receive ZERO public funding so we have no contractual obligation to rush to any particular area or meet the demands of impatient people.

We are not blaming the councils/gov/Bduk as they are not directly affecting our business at present, what we are pointing out is the uncertainty / market distortion that has taken place as a result of the process.

It is one thing to have a state funded competitor, but the situation worsens when the Local Authority plan/strategy seeks to demonise the existence of our service in order to promote the further funding/support of the state aided competitor.

Where is the justification in funding the miles of overhead/ducted FIbre (FTTP) to two remote domestic properties for example when they already haver a 30Mbps+ service ?

Equally for another hamlet of 3 houses and a pub , also all with the same incumbent service and none of the residents demanding anything else?

There is a fast growing list of inordinate expenditure within areas of the county of West Sussex where a commercial service already exists and meets the objective.

Likewise there is an equally growing list of areas where there are no commercial high speed services available. Here the residents and businesses are being told by the LA that they are not eligible for a BDUK funded solution.

One reason they often give is "Because Kijoma cover the area" , which they stick to even if we declare we do not cover that particular location. This means they are using us as an invalid excuse when it is convenient but happy to FTTP overbuild areas with 100% take up.

If you or others do not think Kijoma should raise these issues then that is your view, I however feel there is some seriously fraudulent mis-use of public funds here.

State aid is to be used to resolve otherwise commercially unresolvable issues, not to fund competitive solutions from companies that can easily afford to do this off their own back but refused to historically as it "wasn't profitable/viable".

I, like you will watch with interest as the latest satellite fiasco unfolds.. The 100 Mbps target they recently set will be another "vote winner" bit of vapourware to watch too.

cheers

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE member
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Wed 25-Mar-15 11:14:45
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
HI Partial

Another non Impartial response from you i see.

We are not trying to protect "our monopoly" as you put it. Since when does a company become an evil monopoly just because other companies refuse to invest in an area?

If that is the case then there are a mass of village shops and pubs out there who are evil monopolies because they are the only one and charge higher than big supermarkets/pub chains!

Perhaps they should have state funded competitors (tesco/pub co) installed in the respective villages? What a ludicrous claim to make?!?

Now if you want a clearer definition of monopolistic behaviour then where better to look what is happening at present?

West Sussex is unique in that it has three exchanges that do not even have ADSL. Why not you ask? well because the infrastructure provider declared them commercially unviable.

This means all the parasitic providers that use said infrastructure were unable to provide there too.

Result = No Broadband.

There were many attempts over the years by councils and other quango's/bodies to force these exchanges to be ADSL enabled. Refusal met them every time.

These areas would still have NO broadband at all had Kijoma not made a workable sustainable business model and applied it there. Although to be fair some places in the last couple of months have gained a patchy 3g service option.

Which company do you think behaves in a monopolistic way? The one who waited over 10 years for a significant state handout before doing anything, or the one who put its hand in its own pocket and built out a solution 10 years ago?

As i have stated time and time before, Kijoma has no issue with other companies providing a service in the same areas we provide, if they invest their own money into doing so.

Kijoma will not be driven by self serving bullies who only turn to us when their preferred solution fails either. We are fulfilling demand in the most cost effective way for us and balancing this with the all important upgrade and preventative maintenance work.

Now i know you are in West Chiltington then you are more than aware of my previous messages over the years whereby we declared we would need to see adequate demand to warrant expenditure on a new access aerial.

This was set at a modest 20 threshold , over 500 pushed for "race to infinity" there so where is the difficulty?

It isn't rocket science surely?

You could of course vent your anger at Openreach/BT instead, they may need more than 20 though. But if you stamp and scream at WSCC i am sure they will provide the pocket money for it.

Just tell them Kijoma are about to invest in the area, that seems to speed up FTTC/P roll out as it did in WC for when Kijoma did the same back when WC was unviable for ADSL.

I don't expect to hear anything balanced or im-partial from you in response to be honest, but you are welcome to surprise me?

thank you
In reply to a post by partial:
We are now regularly seeing reports here of punters in West Sussex apparently being told by the council that they are not in scope for further BDUK investment because Kijoma operate in their area.

Yet Kijoma apparently do not want to sign up those customers. Perhaps this is because of comments made on an internet forum way back when and wishing that those punters have made their bed and should lie on it?

I can understand Kijoma wishing to protect their monopoly areas from competition and the great lengths they have gone to to try to protect their monopoly.

I find it difficult to understand why Kijoma spend so much time, effort and moaning trying to prevent BDUK investment in areas they have no intention of serving.


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE member
Standard User mikejp
(regular) Wed 25-Mar-15 12:03:58
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Well, Mr K - "One reason they often give is "Because Kijoma cover the area", which they stick to even if we declare we do not cover that particular location." - having worked with WSCC on the issue I am sure they are just a bit confused by your coverage map telling porkies? EG you show generous coverage of West Chiltington on your map (and you have somehow persuaded Sam Knows too) which just does not exist, as you told Chilting and indeed posted yourself just now! I wonder if they just don't believe much of it so maybe they just take the easy option?
"Now i know you are in West Chiltington then you are more than aware of my previous messages over the years whereby we declared we would need to see adequate demand to warrant expenditure on a new access aerial."

Did you submit an EOI? If so, what did you say about West Chiltington?

Petards and hoist come to mind. I believe the saying is something about 'some of the people some of the time'? You sowed the seeds of your 'relationship' with WSCC many years back, I'm afraid, and well pre-dates my and most in the village's involvement.
Standard User partial
(committed) Wed 25-Mar-15 21:30:31
Print Post

Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your thoughts. I think it is well known in this forum your thoughts on the barriers to Kijoma getting on. Me, various councils, BT, the government, comments on village forums etc.


Just so we are clear on State Funding, Has Kijoma ever received grants from councils? Has it ever been suggested that councils should subsidise installation costs?

Edited by partial (Wed 25-Mar-15 21:32:32)

Standard User kijoma
(committed) Fri 27-Mar-15 11:31:54
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
These are not barriers to Kijoma "getting on", This is not a desperate plea from a company with an empty order book , looking for free cash etc.. Kijoma is a growing profitable business , running as a genuine commercial entity with significant existing and ongoing investment to protect.

The issues raised affect ALL fixed wireless providers nationwide , I am reflecting how it affects us locally.

No other Wireless ISP is probably going to interject with their view as they have probably long since realised that this forum and website provides zero benefit for their business.

It is clear from this thread that the biggest contributors are those who believe they are entitled to receive a service , usually when they have failed to get what they really want via BT.

Followed by those with a pro BT agenda who take it upon themselves to post defamatory rubbish about Kijoma.

The only comments from existing customers have been positive and duly ignored / blanked by those mentioned above.

Kijoma's West Sussex network received no grants or hand outs for its formation. We had looked at this but every time we announced a plan the LA's would then throw hundreds of £1000's at BT to enable the area in question.

Our first commercial network we put up quietly in 2005 then announced it was live with customers to the relevant District Council with the naive thought that they would pass this on to anybody within the area who enquired about Broadband service.

Their response was to do the opposite, they told enquirers that there was NO broadband service there and that they were looking to fund a mesh wireless solution with the now long defunkt Internet Village Broadband (EVIB). (all documented)

To exacerbate this they gave the address database to this company who then sent out a flyer to all the properties in the area (covered by the new Kijoma service) announcing the planned wifi network, "in conjunction with the council" , offering subsidised install etc.. The network infrastructure was going to be paid for by the authority.

This of course had the effect of making a lot of people sit on their hands and not take up the service we had put in. The company in question kept them like this for over 6 months with "coming soon". Eventually nothing happened and the rest is history.

So the answer to funding is None at that point and negative support.

Later in 2005 we stumbled rather accidentally onto a bid process for provision of Broadband to Up/North/East Marden, Hooksway and Chilgrove. Despite being a known provider we were not included in this process from the outset. We discovered it as we were discussing providing a service there with a resident business.

The main bidder at the time was the same company as above and via the same council.

We bid a massive £5000 to provide for this area and won the contract. The network is still running to this day and has been upgraded 3 times to reach its current superfast state and has expanded coverage.

Also in late 2005 we bid to provide a service to a property owned by the then chairman of West Sussex County Council. It involved remote dedicated infrastructure and an off grid setup. the cost was around £2000 . This service still exists after the Chairman resigned and the two properties and others in Stoughton benefit from it.

Later in 2006 we quoted ~£2000 to fit infrastructure and a service for a district councillor in a remote location in Sussex. Although this was to provide the one connection, we also offered to provide to other properties in this location and the service is still there to this day.

In 2009 we took over the EVIB wifi mesh network in Plaistow west sussex , this network did not work but had a lot of money thrown at it by the same council, about £10000 alone in the year prior to us taking over. the provider had left the village to look after the network shortly after.

We took over the network at no cost to the existing customers (all 24 of them) or the public purse and replaced it with our own network. This covers nearly all the properties in the area and has a 97% take up of service (around 170 properties).

Our Staffordshire , Derbyshire , Hampshire and Surrey networks received zero funding.

So the figure you seek is £7000 in total funding in 10 years.

Additional to this there was a scheme once early on that subsidised all business connections to broadband , technology independent, but this was between that provider and the end customer, it was not money given to Kijoma.

I would suspect the Fibre currently being run between East Marden village and two properties (the ones we already provide to in Stoughton area) over a mile away via poles and direct burial cost more than £7000 to install.

So perhaps you can understand why I am so interested in protecting our significant time and money investment against state funded overbuild? If everything we had put in had been at least 50% paid for by the state then we wouldn't have an issue as it would be hypocritical.

Somebody mentioned we may of upset the council early on. I suspect this was around 2002 when we attended meetings about Broadband and expressed concern over the proposal from "Invisible networks" for six villages in West Sussex.

My concern was over technical capability of the proposal and as over £50000 of public money was going into it then it seemed a sensible point to raise. Unfortunately this was probably not the wisest thing to say, even though the money was spent and some potential customers paid up front for 15 months. The service never got past 2 installed nodes before the company voluntarily folded.

The equally funded Plaistow wifi mesh didn't work either and we had been excluded from that bid process . When questioned the council replied "we contacted somebody at Kijoma". at the time that would of had to be me. They didn't.

We have also been asking the County Council over the years to change the wording on their website as it often blatantly lied about our wireless service in the county or spread FUD. The did but usually changed the wording to a different form of the same thing.

So yes, we probably are not in their good books either.

This is more information than this forum deserves to be honest, but then if honesty is seen as a weakness then that is more indicative of the level of corruption people seem happy with.

As hinted earlier this forum provides zero benefit to Kijoma customers or Kijoma as a business. The main people who post are people like you Partial with the sole purpose of trolling a service you have never used and have no intention of using and those who for legitimate reasons cannot receive the service but feel entitled to receive it.

Is there a reason to consume any more of my time here?

thank you

In reply to a post by partial:
Thanks for your thoughts. I think it is well known in this forum your thoughts on the barriers to Kijoma getting on. Me, various councils, BT, the government, comments on village forums etc.

Just so we are clear on State Funding, Has Kijoma ever received grants from councils? Has it ever been suggested that councils should subsidise installation costs?


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE member
Standard User smurf46
(committed) Fri 27-Mar-15 13:33:40
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
We're not all the same. As true of Councils as of everyone else. Personally I think the administration of the Country has gone backwards as a result of the legislative changes since 2000, and things are now more like they were in the 1950s with politicians rather than professionals running the show. Like all human beings, they have their likes and dislikes, not always rational. It has advantages and disadvantages. And is the same as in every other country.

But the customer shouldn't suffer. I was extremely lucky, I suppose with a Fixed Wireless provider who fixed me up with service and could not have been more helpful nor informative, when they had to make an effort to get service to me. In turn I paid my fair share. They made a friend for life, but I would have hoped for the same care if they had to let me down as I got when they were able to help me (and it was certainly looking like it). BT and even the local Councils came up trumps too, in their own peculiar way. We all speak as we find, and shouldn't be criticised for that.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin
Standard User chilting
(newbie) Fri 27-Mar-15 14:36:51
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Having studied how the market works I fully appreciate that you have basically been side lined by the BDUK process so far.
It has been suggested that BDUK3 may induce some element of fixed wireless. From as early as 2016.
With the speeds of fixed wireless improving all the time, are you optimistic that fixed wireless can take its place as a competitor to wired broadband if you receive BDUK funding..
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Fri 27-Mar-15 17:54:26
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: chilting] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by chilting:
Having studied how the market works I fully appreciate that you have basically been side lined by the BDUK process so far.
It has been suggested that BDUK3 may induce some element of fixed wireless. From as early as 2016.
With the speeds of fixed wireless improving all the time, are you optimistic that fixed wireless can take its place as a competitor to wired broadband if you receive BDUK funding..


Thank you for a couple of interesting responses there.

The viewpoint with respect to Fixed Wireless really depends on what factors are considered.

Yes Fixed wireless can compete in providing the technical comparison and can easily exceed if FTTC is the metric used.

Yes it is far more cost effective with low to medium property count and widely spread out properties. The very ones the Goverment keep harping on about.

The technology is evolving far faster than other solutions, excluding FTTP of course, but the cost of FTTP is extreme in the same location scenarios, however this has not stopped FTTP being ran miles for single digit property counts in West Sussex at least.

Even if a wholesale service is offered, i very much doubt any of the current Openreach parasitic providers would wish to use it. Perhaps some of the smaller ISP's might as 100's or small 1000's of customers are significant to them.

So that could be seen as a negative, even though it isn't something within the control of the WISP.

There may even be conflict of interest issues with their contract with BT too?



Putting that all to one side though, Kijoma are not specifically seeking to get embroiled in the complex time consuming firey hoops required to receive funding via the BDUK process at this time.

What we are asking is that our service is recognised and not blatantly overbuilt using BDUK funds in areas we cover, especially with near 100% take up such as Sutton and East Marden Exchange areas.

I would be very interested to know the budget plan for the work going on in these two areas alone as most of it is FTTP, as should everybody else in the county who's money has gone towards it.

It is 100% overbuild of a 30 Mbps to the property service (soon to be 40 Mbps).

see

http://maps.thinkbroadband.com/?utm_source=mainsite&...

for evidence.


The homes and businesses in the many areas denied funding under the BDUK program, currently without any option of 2Mbps+ still should also be raising questions about this abuse of the fund.

Just because the County Council , in order to gain the maximum hand out, declared a commercial providers service as non existent does not excuse them the need to demonstrate value for money where it is spent now. They also need to explain why they fraudulently made the claim in the first place despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.


Here is a quote to ponder :-

"In the case of the non-ADSL exchanges, I accept that Kijoma has coverage in those areas
and that the prices are appropriate. However, a closed access service does make these
locations, in my view, “not-spots” by the definition I am using."

Mike Hicks - Broadband program manager - WSCC - 24/11/2010 in response to a letter to the Leader.

This was followed by a lot of "we are partnering with BT to.." stuff on their website and statements like "Although some areas have wireless , these areas lack the benefit of a fixed line service."

At one point they did a comparison of technology and stated that the cost of Fixed Wireless was the same as a Leased Line!

After the first open market review, which we responded to, they completely omitted our coverage from the resultant maps and data.

I could go on with this as have a huge stack of evidence from the last decade or so.

Prior to the BDUK programme the same person emailed to ask how they could work with us so they could avoid spending money unnecessarily in areas already served and in areas planned to be.

How things changed when cash came into the equation.

I wouldn't hold my breath on BDUK3 unless the EU change their obsession with all things Fibre.

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE member
Standard User vernall
(newbie) Wed 08-Apr-15 12:15:32
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: amelogen] [link to this post]
 
I have been trying to get some sort of reply from Kijoma to see if they can help me with my broadband. I have been trying for 2 years now without any luck. I have signed up to this forum in the hope that Kijoma will reply to this thred on the basis that they seem to try to defend their position on line.

So Kijoma despite a number of requests you have not replied to my question, if as you claim you are real then how about a proper responce to my various emails?

I have enabled link link to enable you to contact me!

Regards

Vernall
Standard User sl1
(newbie) Mon 04-May-15 09:08:07
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Re: Any experience of Kijoma?


[re: vernall] [link to this post]
 
Hi Bill

I too would like to ask if you currently have availability in our area (postcode: RH140AL) as you are listed as a provider on SamKnows. Please could you advise?

Thanks
Sam
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