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Standard User New_Londoner
(member) Mon 24-Oct-11 19:29:52
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Re: October news from Vfast


[re: wirelesspacman] [link to this post]
 
@wirelesspacman
I stand corrected, however I think you missed the point of my earlier post. You had previously stated:

I read through the state aid rules a few months back and it is 100% clear that the provision of state aid for "normal" broadband in areas that already have it is ILLEGAL.

My comment was mainly to highlight that it is not as simple as your post suggested. Issues such as whether or not wholesale services are actually available certainly have a bearing on this, and I think price can come into consideration as well.

Not a big issue but not quite as black and white as stated.

---

All opinions expressed by me are my own

BT Infinity
Speedtest result (excluding 2Mbps for BT Vision)
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Mon 24-Oct-11 22:18:24
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Re: October news from Vfast


[re: darrenorbital] [link to this post]
 
Wow!

This thread has become a little busy!

And they said that this forum was dead.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~24336.33 kbit/s - ~2970.74 KB/s
Upstream ~10224.86 kbit/s - ~1248.15 KB/s
Standard User wirelesspacman
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 25-Oct-11 08:22:37
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Re: October news from Vfast


[re: New_Londoner] [link to this post]
 
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?ur...

2.3.2.2. "Black areas": no need for State intervention

43. When in a given geographical zone at least two broadband network providers are present and broadband services are provided under competitive conditions (facilities-based competition), there is no market failure. Accordingly, there is very little scope for State intervention to bring further benefits. On the contrary, State support for the funding of the construction of an additional broadband network will, in principle, lead to an unacceptable distortion of competition, and the crowding out of private investors. Accordingly, in the absence of a clearly demonstrated market failure, the Commission will view negatively measures funding the roll-out of an additional broadband infrastructure in a "black zone" [46].

Seems fairly simple to me smile

Peter

Loop Scorpio Ltd
Ledbury; Highnam; Newent; Painswick; Arlingham, Cranham
===============================================

Symmetric Pro
Now also offering 20 Mbps symmetric broadband!


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Standard User smurf46
(member) Tue 25-Oct-11 10:44:36
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Re: October news from Vfast


[re: wirelesspacman] [link to this post]
 
I think you also need to read:
45. Although a network operator may be present in the zone targeted by the State intervention, certain categories of users may still not be adequately served in the sense that either some broadband services requested by the users were not available to them or, in the absence of regulated wholesale access tariffs, retail prices were not affordable compared to the same services offered in other more competitive areas or regions of the country [47]. If, in addition, there are only limited prospects that third parties would build an alternative infrastructure, the funding of an alternative infrastructure could be an appropriate measure. This would remedy the absence of infrastructure competition and thus reduce the problems arising from the de facto monopoly position of the incumbent operator [48]. However, the granting of aid under these circumstances is subject to a number of conditions that would have to be met by the Member State concerned.

46. Accordingly, the Commission may declare compatible, under certain conditions, State aid measures that target areas where the provision of a broadband infrastructure is still a de facto monopoly provided that (i) no affordable or adequate services are offered to satisfy the needs of citizens or business users and that (ii) there are no less distortive measures available (including ex ante regulation) to reach the same goals. . . .

I would therefore argue that the correct approach is to look at the services in terms of both speed and limits on use that are sought by customers (not what you or I think a customer ought to be satisfied with) and the correct comparison is terms of affordability is in terms of the difference in the cheapest price for services meeting those requirements between the grey and black areas. This is why the guidance uses the term "de facto" monopoly throughout, in your interpretation those words are unnecessary and appear to add nothing. In addition it certainly seems common sense to me that the availability of broadband infrastructure in a domestic area means terrestrial infrastructure, looking at the guidance as a whole. The guidance in my view makes clear that the approach is to reduce market distortions that prejudice the consumer, and not to protect per se the niche markets of satellite or most local WISPs.

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin
Standard User wirelesspacman
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 25-Oct-11 13:53:09
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Re: October news from Vfast


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
Nope, those paragraphs are not relevant for Black areas, only for Grey ones.

My point thus still stands.

Also, State Aid requires technology neutrality:

"(d) Technological neutrality: Given that broadband services can be delivered on a host of network infrastructures based on wireline (xDSL, cable), wireless (Wi-Fi, WiMAX), satellite and mobile technologies, Member States should not favour any particular technology or network platform unless they can show that there is an objective justification for this [56]. Bidders should be entitled to propose the provision of the required broadband services using or combining whatever technology they deem most suitable."

Peter

Loop Scorpio Ltd
Ledbury; Highnam; Newent; Painswick; Arlingham, Cranham
===============================================

Symmetric Pro
Now also offering 20 Mbps symmetric broadband!
Standard User vfast_tim
(newbie) Wed 26-Oct-11 19:14:50
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Re: October news from Vfast


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to:-
In fact the only on-going problem i've got is that whenever my router (i've tried 4 different ones, plus using them after switches etc) is plugged in, I get a maximum speed of 4mbps, where as without the router/switches, with my pc directly connected I get 15mbps. I contacted support about this and they couldn't do anything except send an engineer, but as I can't afford to pay the callout charge i've just lived with it. As far as my research goes it might be a problem with my Ubiquiti Nanostation M being in bridge mode and being faulty - I had found a thread about it on the Ubiquiti forums.

This customer phoned this week and I have been able to resolve the issue without an engineer visit being needed and at no cost to the customer. This issue was nothing to do with being in bridge mode, there was an Ethernet negotiation mismatch between the nanostation and the router. Speed tests are now showing above 10Mbps and up-to the full 15Mbps when using their router.

Tim Higgs
Vfast internet | Technical Support
0845 121 1257 - support (at) vfast.co.uk
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