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Anonymous
(Unregistered)Tue 13-Mar-12 14:25:48
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: smurf46] [link to this post]
 
Nice and confrontational there!

I don't understand what is wrong with expecting things to be priced at a reasonable level?

Why should those thrifty people or people with too much money than sense pay for a WISP? They shouldn't. It just doesn't make any sense for them to do so, this is what i'm saying - all WISPs are more expensive for what you get than a similarly priced ADSL/cable service. The only reason they can get away with it is because of a lack of competition and people who are for some reason loyal to them.

DIY FTTH works for those lot because they're all wealthy, what about the people who work day in day out for a pittance and don't have a few thousand laying around to invest in such a project? Commercial ISPs exist to provide a service for consumers like myself to buy, I don't see that any other solution than cabling will give the reliability, speed and low running costs that the future requires for a growing ISP - contention is a really big problem with these products.

You say "or there's BT". Come on now don't be silly, BT is a large semi-public company which isn't agile enough to think of things like approaching farmers to avoid roadworks, their overheads are monstrous and it's simply not commercially viable for them to cable anywhere outside of a reasonably sized town. This problem is compounded by the fact that because it's so tightly regulated it is forced to sell its network usage at unfavourable rates to people who undercut BT on their end user service.

It sounds like you live in one of those infamous "50mbps headline speed but only a 100mbps backhaul" cabled areas. You probably live in a rural area where big companies who are cabling things in predict a small demand and cut costs.

When our area was out for tender there was literally no one other than VFast interested - i'm very glad they are there and if you'd read my post you'll see on the whole i'm happy with the service I receive, but I know that if I were in a proper cabled area I would not be paying £25 a month for VFast on top of my BT line rental and Sky TV. No one in my family is interested in gaming, so we don't need high upload, we just browse websites, stream things and use Skype/MSN messenger to contact friends and family abroad. I care only that the service is always there, always reliable and priced reasonably.
Standard User wirelesspacman
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 13-Mar-12 22:37:55
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
"all WISPs are more expensive for what you get"

Really?

Our entry level price is £9.50 per month and does not need a land line. Try matching that with adsl - the land line itself costs more.

Peter

Loop Scorpio Ltd
Ledbury; Highnam; Newent; Painswick; Arlingham, Cranham
===============================================

Symmetric Pro
Now also offering 20 Mbps symmetric broadband!
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 14-Mar-12 00:10:15
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: wirelesspacman] [link to this post]
 
Plusnet offer 6,49 a month, with larger usage limits and potentially higher speeds than your service whilst also offering weekend and evening calls. Yes you have to pay line rental but who doesn't...?


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Standard User kijoma
(committed) Wed 14-Mar-12 08:54:48
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Anonymous:
Plusnet offer 6,49 a month, with larger usage limits and potentially higher speeds than your service whilst also offering weekend and evening calls. Yes you have to pay line rental but who doesn't...?


I have read the messages here from Darren , Smurf and "anonymous" with interest.

I am at a loss as to why some people pour such distain on innovative solutions to Broadband in areas the big guys have little or no interest in.

Plusnet (BT) offering £6.49 broadband with the caveat you refer to of "Yes you have to pay line rental but who doesn't...?" is invariably not cheaper than a WiSP. regardless of the "free" weekend calls.

When you say "who doesn't" , as if everybody MUST have a BT line you are revealing , to me at least, a very narrow mindset with a strong "BT must provide" undertone. BT are a commercial company like any other and if they decide it isn't viable to pipe in "£6.49" broadband to you then who is to blame?

If you paid say £30 a month to Plusnet then they may have a business model again. But as mooted by others, people like you want some form of socialist Broadband system. BT (openreach) will no doubt gain the majority of the public money BDUK are throwing about as they are viewed pretty much as a government organisation, as it was back in the days of the GPO.

Once this money is spent, and you still don't have FTTC or FTTP , then you will of experienced what happens when genuine competition is stifled in favour of a disguised monopoly.

I know Darren mentioned VoIP, many of our customers use VoIP exclusively, we do for our "lines" and i personally have not had a BT line at my property for over 7 years. Nobody "MUST" have a BT line at all, the only people that would imply this would be BT themselves and the many misguided public officials who have been told similar.

I too can provide an example, our Lowest tariff (16Mbps/2Mbps/5GB) costs £13.99 a month inc VAT , if a customer migrates to VoIP then the £14.60 a month line rental vanishes. All their calls to other people using VoIP will be free and call costs to regular numbers are low and without excessive minimum call charges.

So to use your "6.49" example

Cost of service :-

Kijoma - Home light £13.99
Telehpone via VoIP - no line rental

Total fixed monthly Outlay £13.99


Plusnet £6.49
Line Rental £14.60

Total fixed monthly outlay £21.09

Would the people you refer to grumble at having to pay less than their current line rental for Broadband AND phone?

Unlike BT/Plusnet etc.., companies like Vfast and Kijoma have made a business model that works in areas such as yours, all without the benefit of scale of the larger companies and often without a level playing field.

Instead of grumbling anonymously about the fact you don't have "choice" and have to use Vfast, how about being thankful that a commercial provider has made a business case that you benefit from? At the same time treat all the BT FTTC/FTTP hype with extreme caution. BT continue to behave like a spoilt baby that can only be pacified by public funding. It is not like they are a multi billion international organisation after all?!?

I think a lot of local authorities, and Kent may be an exception here, are very keen to pacify BT and give money over without question or consideration for more cost effective and viable solutions. BT do not seem to be culpable under State Aid rules it seems.

The result, you could end up in BDUK's 10% with the required 2 Mbps. The spoilt child would of laid waste to a viable business model for a WiSP in your area by targetting WiSP customers with loss leader rates and the bundled stuff you speak so fondly of. All paid for out of Tax payers revenues..

So in summary, be careful for what you wish for. Be grateful for what you have.

Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User kijoma
(committed) Wed 14-Mar-12 09:05:25
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: slimj] [link to this post]
 
on a point of interest here, Kijoma has replaced its network three times in the 7 years of commercial service. We are the first WiSP to use the new tech that came out in 2009. and the First in the UK to use the 5 GHz band exclusively.

It does involve re-installing end customer equipment in order to benefit from the performance and this cost is borne entirely by us in order to continue to be able to increase capacity, speeds offered and increased customer levels.

This is what commercial companies do if they wish to keep up to date and remain competitive. Even if they do have over 1000 customers on a network to migrate!.

As Darren mentions, the technology for wireless is fast developing and is a long way ahead of the old and defunkt wifi mesh junk that sadly dirtied the water for "wireless access" in the first half of this century. It is also a long way ahead of the much praised WiMAX of yesteryear too.



In reply to a post by slimj:
In reply to a post by darrenorbital:
We have trialed speeds upto 100mbit and it worked, with the new generation of wireless equipment that will be released soon, it will be a reality to deploy.


This is interesting Darren, would this be a case of re-rolling out new equipment to each household again like when everyone was moved from the old 'So Broadband' network to the new Airmax gear?

From a logisitical point of view I can imagine you'd prefer to just roll out firmware updates that will allow for the faster speeds. With more users than ever on VFast I can imagine a rollout of new equipment would take a fair amount of time! smile


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
http://www.kijoma.net
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User vfast_tim
(newbie) Wed 14-Mar-12 19:48:44
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Hi Anonymous

In funded areas you (and others in all funded areas) are able to select our low cost package, Vlite. This is £17.99 per month for a 2Mbps download and 0.5Mbps upload with 15GB usage per month. We find that this package is perfect for users that do web browsing, e-mail and more. Only thing that won't work is HD video streaming which not everyone wants to do anyway.

It is your choice to keep your BT line, it's not needed for our broadband to work, unlike ADSL.

We can supply a local number on a VoIP line for £5 per month (inc £5 call credit) with a one-off cost of £80 for a DECT cordless VoIP phone. Calls are cheaper than on a standard land line.

It is your choice to keep paying Murdoch (BSkyB) for your TV, you could have Freesat or Freeview for nothing or ~£20 one-off to get a set-top box if your TV doesn't support either.

So in reality a customer on Vfast would be paying less than a customer with a BT phone line, ADSL broadband and Sky TV service. Please do the sums before saying something that is not true.

Fixed Wireless Broadband has proved to be a very effective way to provide service to large areas at good prices with quick deployment. This is not possible with FTTH. In rural and even some urban areas FTTC just isn't cost effective or even the best option and will take many years to reach those that 'need' it the most.

Using farmers land for running FTTH ducting is not as simple as some suggest. Planning and Way Leaves are still required and this is a very lengthy process. It can work if one farmer owns all the land in one village but it soon gets complicated as this will not be the case.

A while back when VFast was bad for all of our area for a month or so, we chipped in and one of us tried to get a BT connection to see if there was an alternative, but the connection couldn't sync, so we had to stay with VFast.
So there's a reason we are providing a service, it seems no one else is able to, yet you still complain on a public forum without identifying who you are. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to report any issue with the service to the support team and we can investigate and resolve this for you.

Kind Regards,

Tim Higgs
Vfast internet | Technical Support
0845 121 1257 | support (at) vfast.co.uk | twitter: @vfast_net
Standard User vfast_tim
(newbie) Wed 14-Mar-12 20:23:53
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: slimj] [link to this post]
 
Hi slimj
...would this be a case of re-rolling out new equipment to each household again like when everyone was moved from the old 'So Broadband' network to the new Airmax gear?
Yes, although this should be a simple transition as I expect the new kit to be backward compatible with current gen. The repeater sites would be upgraded then each customers as/when they require a higher speed until eventually everyone has been upgraded.

logistically it's not difficult to do. Changing the antenna on a customers property takes about 30 minutes or less. We'd do this in batches, area by area or in-between new installs.

Kind Regards,

Tim Higgs
Vfast internet | Technical Support
0845 121 1257 | support (at) vfast.co.uk | twitter: @vfast_net
Standard User Yaz
(experienced) Thu 15-Mar-12 01:46:34
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: vfast_tim] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by vfast_tim:
Hi slimj
...would this be a case of re-rolling out new equipment to each household again like when everyone was moved from the old 'So Broadband' network to the new Airmax gear?
Yes, although this should be a simple transition as I expect the new kit to be backward compatible with current gen. The repeater sites would be upgraded then each customers as/when they require a higher speed until eventually everyone has been upgraded.

logistically it's not difficult to do. Changing the antenna on a customers property takes about 30 minutes or less. We'd do this in batches, area by area or in-between new installs.

Kind Regards,


Evening/morning Tim.

If there are any trials for any new kit being rolled out, put me down on the list laugh

I won't chip into the thread any further for now but will add my 2p later on.

vFast Ltd
Downstream ~24336.33 kbit/s - ~2970.74 KB/s
Upstream ~10224.86 kbit/s - ~1248.15 KB/s
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 15-Mar-12 03:07:14
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
I'm more than happy with Vfast the service has only been interrupted twice since I've switched to them (2 years) . I was kind of worried from reading other peoples experiences that there may be some down time here and there before I signed up.

If there was anything I'd think that needs improving it's speed and that's from a purely selfish (always wanting more) attitude I have as I'm getting 20 down and over 8 upload as it is. I wouldn't mind 50 down and 20 upload just so I can do things even faster tongue most services like Virgin have just doubled people's speeds and those on the 100mb services in cities are just getting upload speeds I already get with vfast (all be it their download speeds are almost 5x mine) it all depends what you use the service for.

I upload Videos/Work data that is upwards of 20-25GB a day at times. And the service is good enough to get these files uploading within a 6-7 hour time frame (as opposed to impossible on my old adsl line) I simply wouldn't be able to be self employed without Vfast which I've now used for almost 2 years.

I'd like the upload speed increased but I understand I may be a unique case compared to 99% of the people they provide for. If and when they can I hope they focus on upload speeds more than download as I'd imagine it's a less intensive upgrade on the service they provide, 20mb upload anyone ? or am I being too greedy.


I've rambled on but needless to say vfast have been excellent as far as I'm concerned.

So Vfast please upgrade the service asap for your more selfish clientele thanks
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 15-Mar-12 03:30:35
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Re: What next for WISPs


[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
 
Absolutely spot on, word for word.

3G is capable of 11Mbps+ down here, and 2Mbps+ up.

Still pretty slow for modern broadband, but it's usable. We've used it for 4 years after we upgraded from ADSL and got shot of the landline.

In those days it only performed at 2.7Mbps, nearly twice as fast as ADSL down a 3.6km (aliminimum?) line. It has been upgraded since then and now isn't far off basic cable performance. A provider has actually got off their backside and invested money. Their own money.

It's cheaper than ADSL and VOIP works fine.

Competition raises standards, which is why BT are so keen to get their hands on BDUK money to keep any semblance of same locked out.
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