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Standard User kijoma
(committed) Sun 27-May-12 08:46:17
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Re: FREE Community WiFi Broadband - Not a myth!!

[re: anon1] [link to this post]
In reply to a post by anon1:
I had to have a good laugh. You hide behind an Anonymous tag and demand transparency.

i think it is fairly transparent anyway .. In that most people, here at least, can see right through marketing hype.

I see "Sandgate" in Kent are to or have already given £50k of public money to this project. the website says they will be fitting 3 ADSL lines and the wifi kit. So that's ~£300 spent.

Easy money, just add "community" to your commercial ventures name, a scattering of freely available resources and the promise of ad revenue..

Transparent? I am sure i have seen (through) this business model many times before..


Bill Lewis - MD
Kijoma Broadband - (Division of Kijoma Solutions Ltd)
Fixed wireless ISP - ISPA/CISAS/RIPE members
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User 5km
(knowledge is power) Sun 27-May-12 11:07:12
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Re: FREE Community WiFi Broadband - Not a myth!!

[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
That's close enough for me to go test and see what it is actually like to use. If I get that bored.

O2 Broadband Premium LLU
Now on twitter @timmay2
Standard User anon1
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 27-May-12 19:27:19
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Re: FREE Community WiFi Broadband - Not a myth!!

[re: kijoma] [link to this post]
You are beginning to sound as if you have a damn great chip on your shoulder. Perhaps you should spend more time running your company instead of trawling the net to see if you can find any dirt on a competitor.

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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 28-May-12 23:40:44
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Re: FREE Community WiFi Broadband - Not a myth!!

[re: anon1] [link to this post]
Three ADSL (ADSL2+ I hope) to serve 3000 premises? Reallly is that what £50,000 buys?

Three low contention ADSL lines perhaps £500 per month, giving maybe 50 Meg backhaul, and 2 to 4 Meg upload. Need some pretty nifty kit or blocking to stop the freeloaders dragging performance down and latency up.

The spreading around of ariels makes it read like the older Mesh schemes, begs question of what remote management there is of the aerials, and power backup to cope with home owner switching it off for a short while.

How far from the ADSL lines are services expected to reach?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected] - formerly known as
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 28-May-12 23:56:33
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Hardly free when going 1GB above the 5GB limit costs £200

[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
Just read the T&C's which reveal its a 5GB limit on free service, and the unlimited on the 4 and 8 Mbps services does not appear to meet the new rules for advertising an unlimited services.

Also usage above the 5GB costs 20p per MegaByte, or for those "that are deemed as being grossly in contradiction of our stated fair usage policy".

Are free users informed of crossing from free to per MB charging? i.e. given a chance to not use any more data.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected] - formerly known as
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Wonko
(committed) Tue 29-May-12 09:19:46
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Re: FREE Community WiFi Broadband - Not a myth!!

[re: communityuk] [link to this post]
Could I have some of those magic beans too please.
Standard User Dick_B
(regular) Tue 29-May-12 14:01:40
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Re: FREE Community WiFi Broadband - Not a myth!!

[re: communityuk] [link to this post]
In reply to a post by communityuk:
Just to let you know we already have over a 1000 registered users with CommunityUK and are growing at a rate of knots week in and week out through little more than word of mouth.

In the opening post of this thread it was stated that 'we now have c18% market share (i.e. more than Sky, Orange etc.)'. This does not seem to be the case with only 1000 registered users. Please explain.
(Unregistered)Wed 30-May-12 16:23:50
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Re: FREE Community WiFi Broadband - Not a myth!!

[re: Dick_B] [link to this post]
He did say it has all sorts of secret magic sauce and I am sure the proper WiSPs are quaking in their boots right now as are orange and sky!

Its clearly not a case of building up a big database of customers , even if they only register and use it once, then sell the company to some non savvy company or investor before the smoke and mirrors are revealed.

Nope surely not as the directors track record shows no evidence of this behaviour at all.

The £50k of public money appears to have been well spent. Only the other day I visited sandgate and was impressed how well hidden the wifi aerials fitted in march are. Even the wifi signals are completely invisible too.

Such attention to aesthetics is commendable

Standard User smurf46
(member) Wed 30-May-12 16:59:45
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Re: FREE Community WiFi Broadband - Not a myth!!

[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
Oh my what a lot of cynics we are. We know everything but appreciate nothing.

The point of competition is that different people have different needs. Unbelievably to those of us on here, who think that life is a computer screen, there is a whole world (nay universe) beyond and most people aren't interested in thrashing their connection and their broadband requirements are modest. You can scoff at them all you like, but I bet they're happier than the miserable moaning lot on here. Patience isn't the greatest virtue for no reason; but you never have to wait to condemn do you?

We see things not as they are, but as we are .
- Anais Nin
Standard User Seraphsailor
(newbie) Sat 28-Sep-13 14:55:34
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Re: FREE Community WiFi Broadband - Not a myth!!

[re: communityuk] [link to this post]
In reply to a post by communityuk:

For someone who has nor fear of competition to be surfing around at quarter to one in the morning , trying to dig up dirt and posting what can only be described as a shoddy and cynical attempt at a personal attack to try and discredit my company and I is quite interesting not to mention sad.

In "retrospect", I think my original posting has done a great deal of good if all it has achieved is to expose you as a perpetrator of this kind of thing to the readers of this forum and indeed our industry.

Half of me wanted to simply ignore you but the other half dictates I defend myself for the sake of my company, my colleagues and our many, many customers.

I was a Wi-Surf customer for 2 years, and my location was also a Wi-Surf relay station - so I have some knowledge of the chain of events that led to PR-F literally shutting up shop, disappearing, and not answering phone calls

So let me put you right about events in Spain.

The post you found and linked to, as people will see relates to events in 2006. The comments are, unfortunately, extremely ill informed.

Wi-Surf, which was indeed started by myself and was built into one of Spain's earliest, successful WISP's, providing services to users across urbanisations from Murcia to Valencia.

At that time, thousands upon thousands of ex-pats and Spaniards lived in Urbanisations that we're literally years away from getting basic copper telephone lines, let alone any Broadband. We provided a robust and successful solution for them by bringing in Satellite Internet and distributing the service to individual users via WIFI networks.

I an in agreement with what Peter says. In 2004 Spain was in catch-up mode. Telefonica was the predominant landline /internet service provider, did whatever it wanted, and took no notice of customer needs. Many urbanisations' and locations such as the Jalon valley would not allow overhead lines and laying in undergound cabling was cost-prohibitive. Wi-Surf stood out as the optimum system provider and for the main, was a good service.

We used the right and best technology for the situation and had hundreds upon hundreds of very satisfied customers who otherwise would have been completely disconnected from the outside world, families overseas etc.

The bit I've bolded; not true. There were loads of cafes and wifi locations where one could "communicate"; In our location Denia had numerous locations, Moraira had about 6 locations and Javea hadseveral and a postal shop where you could cable up your own laptop if you so wished. A bit of pain but to use them but to say "completely disconnected" is not true

In fact, one of our customers was so happy, he has bought into CommunityUK and works with us now!

I don't doubt what you say but I was friends with a few of your employees (we both went to the wedding blessing and reception for Carrie and Wayne in the Paramour in Javea - remember?) I was aware that when you did the moonlight flit from your offices in Benitachell several employees did not get paid!

Unfortunately, in early 2006, the company's Satellite Internet Service Provider Aramiska suddenly and without warning collaped and their service was cut off. As I am sure readers will understand, this had nothing to do with little old Wi-Surf not paying it's bills, which NEVER was the case. Their collapse was a huge blow to us and many others.

I don't buy all of this. I know that you reduced the Aramiiska sevice levels About 4:40 on a Friday afternoon then the sevice would start to "panic"; 404 errors would start and then the system degraded and went offline. Your support desk was closed and no way to contact until Monday. Miraculously at about 8:50 Monday morning it all came back. As we were a relay station then I could plug into the kit and see the status - it was disconnected - so you were cutting the 7day a week service down to 5 days as a cost cutting exercise.

See Keith's blog where he confirms that Wi-Surf weren't paying Aramiska bills and so your service was disconnected

After many frantic weeks of searching for a new service which could replace Aramiska and the hundreds of dead satellite dishes we had out there, we were about to sign a deal with a Spanish supplier when a company called Ouranos announced their takeover of Aramiska's assets and service and switched us back on.

You didn't really communicate any information to the use base. Once the "system" was down; and whether this was because Aramiska had cut you off or due to their demise I don't know, then for maybe 5 weeks we got the text messages from you " Bear with us for a few days and sevice will be restored' hang on a bit longer" and then the texts stopped. I was with you in your office one afternoon and you demo'ed the 2 wi phones to me; by the following morning you had done a runner further south.

Hurrah we thought! Although this awful time had cost our customers a lost connection and Wi-Surf thousands in lost revenue, at least we were back up and running, our customers on-line again and money saved not having to replace all those satellite dishes.

Once the system was down it never came back - on the money front you owe me 600Euros; including 80 E's for changing the propert locks as you had a set of keys to access for relay management

Then around July/August 2006 for personal reasons surrounding the serious illness of my wife (she later died), I agreed to sell out my shareholding to the investor mentioned in the article and leave Wi-Surf to concentrate more on my family.

Peter, I was aware of your loss at the time and I know how much you loved, doted, and wrote poems to her; words don't really help but I was sorry for you

This was publicly announced in the English Newspapers there and can be absolutely verified by many individuals if required regardless of any unfounded and indeed strange statements to the contrary.

Unfortunately for the investor and Wi-Surf's customers, Ouranos were short lived and the company suddenly ceased to provide services (and even speak to its customers!) in September 2006

Again this event was NOTHING to do with Wi-Surf not paying bills!!.

Regardless of what you say you did a runner from Benitachell, made no communication with the user base and left "hundreds and hundreds" of peope who had paid you for a service that you walked, no you ran, away from. For this reason then you are a DESPICABLE person. You looked at setting up with McClure further south, and in your doing arunner you forgot to close the Wi-Surf forum which was a valuable tool for me and others that you stole money from to communicate and share information and our experiences

As I have stated, by the time this had happened I had already left Wi-Surf and had no control whatsoever over these events or how Wi-Surf dealt with them.

You ran away from your responsibilities to your Wi-Surf customer base ; closed the office; no communication; and several staff not paid.

They had already shut our original offices down, moved them to a location far away and had let most of the original staff go. Again this can be independently corroborated if required.

Go on then; corrobate. I saw you in your offices and the following morning the office was stripped and bare. Don't tell me that the the Irish Clear Comms guy is your reference cos if you do I can post emails from him dissassociating himself from Wi-Surf.

In fact, I ended up loosing a lot of money though the non-payment of agreed funds by the other shareholder, which ended up causing huge distress to my already very distressed family.

Your familly doesn't come into the equation. It's your risk in the business world re your P&L. What you did was to run away from your obligations to your customers with no contact. Nada - one second you were there and the next you had disappeared.

So, in summary, I had actually created a fully operational and very successful WISP (technically and commercially) in a very difficult (technically and commercially) environment in Spain. A real accomplishment in my own or anybody reasonable's book.

I agree; but you had dependencies to 3rd parties and didn't appear to have any contingency, or risk management plan in the event of problems.So maybe not such a "good" accomplishment

The fact that two extremely unfortunate and wholly unexpected events damaged the company cannot be attributed to me, my expertise or my integrity in any way whatsoever - especially as I was no longer with the company at the time the second event happened.

I say again "You ran away" - so the song "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" applies. You have the monies from hundreds of people (including me) who paid you for a sevice that you a) failed to deliver and b) you failed to return monies paid.

Hopefully, this allays any fears your again nefarious attempt at discrediting my company and I has caused others.

As to your other comments, I cannot be bothered and the proof of the pudding is already in the eating, a fact you so conveniently continue to ignore.

My apologies to other readers for having to witness this but I hope you now get a good feel for who are the "good guys" here as a result.

Not at all. I'm happy to put the record straight
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