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Standard User techguy
(member) Sat 13-Aug-11 17:01:38
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slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[link to this post]
 
The ADSL Nation filter I fitted seems to have stopped the wild fluctuations in sync speed (seems to be bobbing between 3040 and 3072) but whenever it drops my throughput figure drops form 2.4 to 1.9,

Is there anything I can do or ask Zen to do to stop the DLM hammering it so much?

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.

Edited by techguy (Sat 13-Aug-11 17:02:40)

Standard User techguy
(member) Sun 14-Aug-11 17:44:50
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
sync speed has now jumped to 3104.

Can anyone explain how the DLM algorithm works?

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 14-Aug-11 18:07:57
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Or why they bother?

My BE connection runs as fast as it can..



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Standard User techguy
(member) Sun 14-Aug-11 18:24:56
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Hello Batboy

Adding nothing remotely useful as per usual I see.

And why would I want to pay extra for a short contract.

I used BE's LLU when I used O2 and my experience was not good but I am pleased to hear that you have a good experience.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.

Edited by techguy (Sun 14-Aug-11 18:27:14)

Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 14-Aug-11 18:28:29
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by techguy:
Hello Batboy

Adding nothing remotely useful as per usual I see.

And why would I want to pay extra for a short contract.

I used BE's LLU when I used O2 and my experience was not good but I am pleased to hear that you have a good experience.
I was asking why they use DLM. I'm not sure what you're raving about...



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Standard User techguy
(member) Sun 14-Aug-11 18:33:24
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
They use DLM because they do.

I am just trying tp figure out why it keeps randomly jumoing up and down. as you are unable to answer that question I'm not sure why you bothered posting as this was not a debate on the rights and wrongs of DLM.

I thank you for your contribution anyway.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.

Edited by techguy (Sun 14-Aug-11 18:34:45)

Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 14-Aug-11 18:41:10
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by techguy:
They use DLM because they do.
Oh, well that makes sense. Or does it?



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Standard User techguy
(member) Mon 15-Aug-11 08:59:52
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
They use DLM because BT do.

Look mate if you've nothing useful to add, please go to another thread or board as your input is really wasted here.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User jphilip
(member) Mon 15-Aug-11 09:54:08
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Kitz has a page all about profiles

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm

Your sync speed changes as quoted would not seem to be enough to trigger a drop in profile - I wonder if you are getting a lower synch speed briefly then it is recovering to around 3000.
Standard User techguy
(member) Wed 17-Aug-11 11:16:35
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: jphilip] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for providing a decent response, I was beginning to fear the trolls had taken over.

Its quite possible as the sync dropped to 2912 the other day.

Might mail support and request an engineer visit to check the wiring (yep am fully prepared to pay the charge)

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User jphilip
(member) Wed 17-Aug-11 12:47:05
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Could you post your downstream attenuation, snr and speed and say what make and model of router you are using.
Standard User techguy
(member) Wed 17-Aug-11 20:27:26
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: jphilip] [link to this post]
 
Router: Netgear DG834G v4

Current sync 2912 Kbps

Downstream att. 57db (this has remained steady throughout
Noise Margin 6.3 db but goes up to sbout 7.6 at times.

I may ring support over the weekend and see if I can get them to send BT round (which I am prepared to pay for if necessary)

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Wed 17-Aug-11 21:08:54
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
So (if I understand this correctly), because your sync speed is right on the border line of one of the DLM speed profiles, the DLM chops and changes your available speed by as much as half a megabit?

I'm not sure there's much you're going to be able to do about that, except move to an ISP that doesn't use BT back haul network (and hence no DLM).

If you can switch to 21CN, there might be a chance the DLM will put you on a 3db noise profile, with a higher sync speed, but that's likely to make things more unstable. You could try and counteract that by switching on interleaving, which will increase latency.

Food for thought.

EDIT: I think the 3db noise profile is only if you sync using ADSL2(+), so if you only have an ADSL1 router, forget that idea - or buy a newer router.

Now on <aaisp.net>
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?

Edited by mixt (Wed 17-Aug-11 21:12:04)

Standard User techguy
(member) Wed 17-Aug-11 22:32:13
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
Having quie a few resyncs over the past few days.

Did plug a phone in and did a quiet line test and all appeared to be OK.

Was on ADSL2+ but it dropped all the way down to 350 Kbps, did ask support about fixing the Noise Margin and they said they could if I put it back onto ADSL2+ but they also reckoned it would make line less stable.


Could this be something like an HR disconnect fault?

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User jphilip
(member) Wed 17-Aug-11 22:46:32
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
You might get lucky and get an engineer who is very thorough and gets a few more hundred kbps out of your line but I suspect it is more likely that Zen and/or BT will say relatively small fluctuation in synch speed is to be expected on a line with that attenuation.

I have a line with similar stats and I use the DGTeam firmware on a NetgearDG834GT

There is a version of that available for your router at

http://dgteam.ilbello.com/index.php?pid=11

I set my router to have a target SNR of 40% of the normal 6db and this gets me about 500-1000 kbps extra synch speed. I can get 3500 profile and sometimes 4000 when the standard settings would be 2500 or 3000.

Another point - recently my router was running 1000kbps slower than usual and SNR was varying between 1 and 5. I realised I had several extra routers, switches and access points under test and some or all of their power supplies were creating interference - worth having a look for any devices you can unplug at least temporarily.
Standard User mixt
(experienced) Thu 18-Aug-11 05:21:48
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Have you tried forcing the router to use only ADSL2 (no plus). For long lines, this is actually better. Worth a shot. There's no reason why you shouldn't be able to sync at 3dB on ADSL2, with interleaving, and still hold a reasonable connection. Fingers crossed this will give you enough extra sync speed to be well above the DLM speed profile border line that's causing you your speed issues.

Unfortunately, as another chap has said, I think for the length of line, the fluctuations you are seeing are expected.

Now on <aaisp.net>
Previous ISPs: Virgin Media (50Mb/Cable), Be* Un Limited, ZeN
Is Linux routing your internet connection?
Need to make BIND geo-aware?
Standard User techguy
(member) Thu 18-Aug-11 11:24:22
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: mixt] [link to this post]
 
Line modulation is fixed at ADSL so will have to talk to sales about getting it remodulated but its worth a shot I suppose.

Is there any mileage in getting the socket replaced with an NTE5 type and sticking an iPlate on?

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User techguy
(member) Thu 18-Aug-11 11:27:47
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
I was corresponding with a member of the support team via the PM system on this forum and did ask for a price for getting this done but not had a reply, must have got bored and moved on.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 18-Aug-11 11:38:04
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Replacing a socket and not reconnecting the extensions if any, is £25+VAT
IPlate would be a seperate issue.

Generally if using twisted pair wiring on extensions, and ring wire is disconnected that is as good as an iPlate

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User techguy
(member) Thu 18-Aug-11 11:39:44
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
What colour is the bellwire?

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User ggremlin
(committed) Thu 18-Aug-11 11:43:16
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Is there any mileage in getting the socket replaced with an NTE5 type and sticking an iPlate on?

yep, but I would go for nte5, and filtered faceplate
Standard User techguy
(member) Thu 18-Aug-11 11:46:57
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: ggremlin] [link to this post]
 
I'll have a chat to Zen support over the weekend as line rental is now through them too.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 18-Aug-11 11:55:41
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Whatever colour is connected to pin 3 of the IDC connectors, often orange/white or white/orange but many people wire using different setups

Phone and ADSL only needs wires on pins 2 and 5

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User techguy
(member) Thu 18-Aug-11 13:11:12
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Think I may pay up the 25 quid and get BTOR round to do it.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
ISP Representative Pontefract
(isp) Fri 19-Aug-11 00:34:17
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

If that was me - I didn't receive a message asking about price for wiring that I can find; was just waiting for a reply to my last message about the test socket. Not bored or moved on! smile Happy to pick up where we left off to get this sorted out for you.

--
Paul Simpson
Zen Technical Support
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User techguy
(member) Fri 19-Aug-11 17:56:03
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: Pontefract] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, that sounded a tad harsh.

I think the message got lost in TBB's server somewhere.

Anyway I don't have an NTE5 so there's no master socket for me to plug into.

I had a quick chat with support just now about getting an NTE5 fitted so that I can fit an iPlate to it to rule out the bell wire as I don't really want to start cutting wires not to mention it being borderline illegal.

They've logged it as a broadband fault with BT so that it should be replaced for free.

Once again Zen prove they are worth the hard earned traded for their services.

Apologies again for the misplaced message and harsh comment Paul.

Have a good weekend.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
ISP Representative Pontefract
(isp) Fri 19-Aug-11 23:05:26
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

No apologies required; as my Australian colleague Leo ('Azzaka') would say - no worries smile

If there's no nte5 present we'll get one fitted as part of the fault/engineer visit - we'll then be able to see what your line is capable of without your internal wiring attached and, as you say, you can fit an iplate if required.

Have a good weekend smile

--
Paul Simpson
Zen Technical Support
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User techguy
(member) Thu 25-Aug-11 20:11:39
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: Pontefract] [link to this post]
 
Just to keep this thread up to date.

Openreach came on Tuesday and fitted an NTE5, sync appears to be stable at 3456 Kbps and after an IP profile reset by Zen now up to 2.4 Mbps and on fastpath.

Terrific stuff, not the cheapest but definitely the best.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User Tacitus
(experienced) Fri 26-Aug-11 08:25:00
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: Pontefract] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Pontefract:
If there's no nte5 present we'll get one fitted as part of the fault/engineer visit ...[ SNIP ].... as you say, you can fit an iplate if required.
Don't the current OpenReach logoed NTE5s come with a bell wire filter already fitted? Hence no need for an additional iPlate.
Standard User techguy
(member) Fri 26-Aug-11 13:19:16
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: Tacitus] [link to this post]
 
Hi Tac.

Did a bit of googling on the iPlate and I did discover that.

All is going great.


Going to take the xbox online over the weekend so that'll be the acid test but as I'm now on fastpath I should get a terrific ping too.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User techguy
(member) Fri 26-Aug-11 13:20:57
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Engineer that came was really thorough apparently too and a nice chap too apparently.

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
ISP Representative Pontefract
(isp) Fri 26-Aug-11 23:12:37
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Re: slight profile fluctuations hammering IP profile


[re: techguy] [link to this post]
 
Hi,

Glad we got it sorted out for you smile

--
Paul Simpson
Zen Technical Support
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
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