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When we moved house a year ago, I knew that we'd be further from the exchange than we used to be, so wasn't expecting the same performance as before with Zen (solid ASDL2+ sync of 14000 and above). However I'm getting to the end of my tether with this line. Wildly fluctuating speeds, frequent disconnections and periods of unavailability. I'm beginning to question the viability of staying with Zen and paying for an expensive service on a bad line, whereas I may as well just go with a cheaper ISP if I'm going to get a lousy service anyway.
Here's my most recent stats and the fluctuations on the line over the last couple of months from the Zen portal - it's been the same story pretty much all year:
Router: DG834GT (last synced in ADSL2 mode)
Filter: NTE5 faceplate splitter from Maplin
Line Attenuation: 46 db
Noise Margin: 3-6db, fluctuates a lot
Current sync: 3408 kbps down / 883 kbps up
| Text | 1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
20 | Upstream Downstream Sync Rate BRAS Profile Interleave Sync Date Date
654 135 160 adsl135 Auto 12-Aug-2011 12:46 12-Aug-2011 12:46923 250 288 adsl250 Auto 12-Aug-2011 08:37 12-Aug-2011 08:37
959 2500 2848 adsl2500 Auto 07-Aug-2011 21:01 07-Aug-2011 21:01140 750 864 adsl750 Auto 07-Aug-2011 19:47 07-Aug-2011 19:47
931 2500 2848 adsl2500 Auto 07-Aug-2011 17:54 07-Aug-2011 17:540 3000 3424 adsl3000 Auto 05-Aug-2011 13:40 05-Aug-2011 13:40
999 4000 4544 adsl4000 Auto 03-Aug-2011 07:40 03-Aug-2011 07:400 2500 2848 adsl2500 Auto 03-Aug-2011 07:22 03-Aug-2011 07:22
999 3500 4000 adsl3500 Auto 02-Aug-2011 21:19 02-Aug-2011 21:19999 5000 5696 adsl5000 Auto 01-Aug-2011 13:50 01-Aug-2011 13:50
991 3500 4000 adsl3500 Auto 30-Jul-2011 10:39 30-Jul-2011 10:39863 350 416 adsl350 Auto 30-Jul-2011 06:56 30-Jul-2011 06:56
963 4000 4544 adsl4000 Auto 28-Jul-2011 07:47 28-Jul-2011 07:47882 135 160 adsl135 Auto 27-Jul-2011 21:16 27-Jul-2011 21:16
971 4500 5120 adsl4500 Auto 25-Jul-2011 12:16 25-Jul-2011 12:16907 3500 4000 adsl3500 Auto 15-Jul-2011 21:28 15-Jul-2011 21:28
955 4000 4544 adsl4000 Auto 08-Jul-2011 05:46 08-Jul-2011 05:460 4000 4544 adsl4000 Auto 06-Jul-2011 19:33 06-Jul-2011 19:33
971 4500 5120 adsl4500 Auto 24-Jun-2011 05:04 24-Jun-2011 05:04 |
As you can see - I've never obtained a consistent speed of any kind, and it frequently becomes unusable.
The current sync speed isn't reflected in this list for some reason - yesterday I obtained a different router (a DG834G v2) to see if it would give my any greater stability. It's been connected for 24 hours at an uninspiring sync of 3408, which even if it turns out to be stable, does not justify continuing to pay Zen £35 a month when I could get the quality of service elsewhere.
I've had sync speeds of 5120 and above on this line, but they've never sustained more than a day or so. BT have been out recently to do a voice line test (about 2 weeks ago, the SNR was so poor the router chatter was audible on the voice line) and the engineer found no problem with the voice path. However, in this case an interesting effect of the BT fault reporting guy doing the remote line test was that immediately after the test completed (& plugging everything back in) the router synced at something like 5600 before dropping back down to around 4000 after a few hours.
My question is - is there anything more that can be done here? I'm loathe to wait until fibre comes our way because if we do have a bad line joint outside the property, there's every chance that will cause problems with FTTC as well. I feel that I'd like a thorough investigation of my line from an ADSL point of view, but the variance in the timing of problems make it difficult just to 'raise a fault'.
Edited by deleted (Mon 15-Aug-11 07:58:02)
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I should add that there's no extra wiring or extensions from the master NTE5 and I've tested through the test socket in the past and obtained exactly the same fluctuations in speed.
The faceplate filter replaced a standard Solwise inline filter about six months ago, and did temporarily improve speeds slightly, but they soon started to fluctuate.
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I would speak to support. With the really low synch rates you have had on the 12th there should be enough disconnection history to prove some fault on the line. They can also do a copper line test. They may want you to go back to BT if that shows a fault.
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When we moved house a year ago, I knew that we'd be further from the exchange than we used to be, so wasn't expecting the same performance as before with Zen (solid ASDL2+ sync of 14000 and above). However I'm getting to the end of my tether with this line. Wildly fluctuating speeds, frequent disconnections and periods of unavailability. I'm beginning to question the viability of staying with Zen and paying for an expensive service on a bad line, whereas I may as well just go with a cheaper ISP if I'm going to get a lousy service anyway.
Here's my most recent stats and the fluctuations on the line over the last couple of months from the Zen portal - it's been the same story pretty much all year:
Router: DG834GT (last synced in ADSL2 mode)
Filter: NTE5 faceplate splitter from Maplin
Line Attenuation: 46 db
Noise Margin: 3-6db, fluctuates a lot
Current sync: 3408 kbps down / 883 kbps up
| Text | 1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
20 | Upstream Downstream Sync Rate BRAS Profile Interleave Sync Date Date
654 135 160 adsl135 Auto 12-Aug-2011 12:46 12-Aug-2011 12:46923 250 288 adsl250 Auto 12-Aug-2011 08:37 12-Aug-2011 08:37
959 2500 2848 adsl2500 Auto 07-Aug-2011 21:01 07-Aug-2011 21:01140 750 864 adsl750 Auto 07-Aug-2011 19:47 07-Aug-2011 19:47
931 2500 2848 adsl2500 Auto 07-Aug-2011 17:54 07-Aug-2011 17:540 3000 3424 adsl3000 Auto 05-Aug-2011 13:40 05-Aug-2011 13:40
999 4000 4544 adsl4000 Auto 03-Aug-2011 07:40 03-Aug-2011 07:400 2500 2848 adsl2500 Auto 03-Aug-2011 07:22 03-Aug-2011 07:22
999 3500 4000 adsl3500 Auto 02-Aug-2011 21:19 02-Aug-2011 21:19999 5000 5696 adsl5000 Auto 01-Aug-2011 13:50 01-Aug-2011 13:50
991 3500 4000 adsl3500 Auto 30-Jul-2011 10:39 30-Jul-2011 10:39863 350 416 adsl350 Auto 30-Jul-2011 06:56 30-Jul-2011 06:56
963 4000 4544 adsl4000 Auto 28-Jul-2011 07:47 28-Jul-2011 07:47882 135 160 adsl135 Auto 27-Jul-2011 21:16 27-Jul-2011 21:16
971 4500 5120 adsl4500 Auto 25-Jul-2011 12:16 25-Jul-2011 12:16907 3500 4000 adsl3500 Auto 15-Jul-2011 21:28 15-Jul-2011 21:28
955 4000 4544 adsl4000 Auto 08-Jul-2011 05:46 08-Jul-2011 05:460 4000 4544 adsl4000 Auto 06-Jul-2011 19:33 06-Jul-2011 19:33
971 4500 5120 adsl4500 Auto 24-Jun-2011 05:04 24-Jun-2011 05:04 |
As you can see - I've never obtained a consistent speed of any kind, and it frequently becomes unusable.
The current sync speed isn't reflected in this list for some reason - yesterday I obtained a different router (a DG834G v2) to see if it would give my any greater stability. It's been connected for 24 hours at an uninspiring sync of 3408, which even if it turns out to be stable, does not justify continuing to pay Zen £35 a month when I could get the quality of service elsewhere.
I've had sync speeds of 5120 and above on this line, but they've never sustained more than a day or so. BT have been out recently to do a voice line test (about 2 weeks ago, the SNR was so poor the router chatter was audible on the voice line) and the engineer found no problem with the voice path. However, in this case an interesting effect of the BT fault reporting guy doing the remote line test was that immediately after the test completed (& plugging everything back in) the router synced at something like 5600 before dropping back down to around 4000 after a few hours.
My question is - is there anything more that can be done here? I'm loathe to wait until fibre comes our way because if we do have a bad line joint outside the property, there's every chance that will cause problems with FTTC as well. I feel that I'd like a thorough investigation of my line from an ADSL point of view, but the variance in the timing of problems make it difficult just to 'raise a fault'.
With a 46 db attentuation I'd expect to see 5.5 Mbps on adsl1
& around 6.5 - 7 Mbps on adsl2
Your lines fluctuating really badly with some 160kbps sycs. This should not be happening!
Assuming your always in the master, have tried new filters, new rj11 cable etc I'd say definite line fault
Im sure zen will see those really low syncs and the errors on the line etc & send out BT openreach
Get in touch!
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+1 for getting in touch with Zen's Technical support line.
I had trouble with a noisy line when I switched to ADSL2+ at the beginning of the year - my profile was getting limited to 2500kbs. I set up the TTB noise quality monitor to run on the line and could see periods of high packet loss on the line - have you tried doing this?
I contacted the Zen support line and they couldn't have been more helpful (or knowledgable). It took a bit of time to go through all the tests to eliminate my equipment as the cause (plugging into test socket and trying alternative filters, modem cables and, ideally, another modem), but once that was done, they got Openreach out and, on the second visit the Engineer changed the line back to the exchange - line attenuation dropped and I've ended up with a profile of 9,000-10,000kbs.
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Thanks all. I've raised a fault with Zen and an Openreach engineer is visiting tomorrow AM. Although sync speed seems to have been stable the last couple of days, I'm still seeing dropped connections. My current suspicion is that I've got a particularly noisy line, leading to packet errors and loss of sync.
I haven't seen the ping monitor before - I'll set this up, thanks.
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Just keep ringing them until its fixed, I got out a BT contract by ringing every day to log up a massive amount of complaints, it is a lousy thing to have to do but its the only way to deal with lousy company's.
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Do resync's coincide with when the phone rings, or is picked up?
If yes then a High Resistance fault (HR Fault), i.e. poor joint may be the issue.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Zen worked their socks off for me last year, but without success. After 3 months of BT engineer visits culminating in a visit of 2 of their "guru's" complete with all sorts of equipment they left scratching their heads (I'm less than 1KM from the exchange). At which point I called VirginMedia and have had a stable cable connection ever since.
But I repeat - Zen never gave up and pushed BT hard.
Hopefully your problem will be solved - good luck.
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Do resync's coincide with when the phone rings, or is picked up?
If yes then a High Resistance fault (HR Fault), i.e. poor joint may be the issue.
Not at the moment, but they have in the past on this line, especially when the sync speeds have been really low. I've observed the SNR dropping by maybe 1-2dB when a call is in progress, however.
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+1 for a developing HR dis fault on your line.
Calls affecting DSL synch and actually hearing the modem "chatter" as you put it in another post are absolutely typical symptoms. As is seeing a temporary improvement in service after a line test is performed.
Not always the easiest of faults for an engineer to identify or resolve. Quite often the automated line tests used do not pick them up leading to a "nothing wrong with it mate".
Usual cause is a corroding joint somewhere on the line. Left long enough it will fail altogether at which point it becomes very easy to locate! That can take years though.
Best of luck.
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Quick update - Openreach engineer came around yesterday, lovely chap. Did the full range of line tests. Managed to get a better downstream speed than I'd been getting out of his test equipment, but mentioned that it's often a side effect of doing the tone tests.
Tests revealed that the power values on the downstream were low, and that out of 3 copper line tests, two revealed intermittent errors. So he swapped the copper line back to the exchange (which seems to have lead to an immediate improvement in speed, currently synced at 5696), and has requested that Zen authorise the swapping of the line card, which will have to be done as a separate job, apparently..
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Quick update - Openreach engineer came around yesterday, lovely chap. Did the full range of line tests. Managed to get a better downstream speed than I'd been getting out of his test equipment, but mentioned that it's often a side effect of doing the tone tests.
Tests revealed that the power values on the downstream were low, and that out of 3 copper line tests, two revealed intermittent errors. So he swapped the copper line back to the exchange (which seems to have lead to an immediate improvement in speed, currently synced at 5696), and has requested that Zen authorise the swapping of the line card, which will have to be done as a separate job, apparently..
Looking good.
Let us know how it all goes
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An update.. Zen monitored the line over the weekend, and again there were sync drops and my router froze up again. Support called me yesterday to organise another Openreach engineer visit to perform the lift & shift. I'd misunderstood thinking that the previous chap swapped the line. Luckily a slot was available this morning.
OR chap (a different guy, nowhere near as chatty as the previous one) showed up and didn't have a clue about the fault case, had to explain it all from scratch. Did the usual round of line tests and then left to swap the line at the exchange. Took him about half an hour, called me up to tell me he'd done it, and then called me 10 minutes later saying there were some tests he'd forgot to perform, so it'd be another 10 minutes before it was stable.
Since then - no improvement in sync speed from before, and sync has dropped three times. Downstream power is still rated at 0.0dBm. The router did manage to sync in ADSL2+ mode briefly, but then this dropped and it resynced with ADSL2 as before. Zen say they're monitoring overnight and will bounce the case back to Openreach if need be. Top marks to Zen support for being proactive and on the ball here.
Current stats (10pm in the evening) are: current sync 5295, max possible sync 5672, attn 47.5dB, SNR 3.1dB, down from 6.2dB this afternoon. Voice line clear so far.
I may now be clutching at straws, thinking that I should be getting better speeds (in the 6500 region) and better stability even on this longish line, but this is now becoming an obsession!
I've been looking at the drop wire coming in from the pole. None of the OR engineers have done this. Mine is an old property (1930s) and the poles, etc on my road all look original, presumably 1950s. From the pole, the wire terminates on a bracket at the corner of the house, goes into a junction box, and there's a grey, flat figure-of-eight wire that runs down from there and across the front of the house before terminating at a junction box just inside the front door. Looks pretty weather-beaten and brittle.
I opened this box just to have a peek, and was surprised to see only two wires coming in, connected up to some modern-looking twisted-pair which leads to the NTE5. So it looks like the drop wire is fairly old, non-twisted pair stuff which could be picking up all sorts of extraneous noise from outside! Hmm.. I've mentioned this to Zen, hoping that there's a case for Openreach to replace this.
Edited by deleted (Tue 23-Aug-11 22:32:40)
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A quick update - sync drops and speed fluctuations continued in the week after this and Zen kept the fault open. They requested Openreach go through their 'quality gates' process and an engineer came out on Friday.
I mentioned the drop wire, he took one look at it and said "that's your problem, mate, that'll be 40 years old". He replaced it with nice new twisted pair. Since then, my router's held a solid sync at 5600 and hasn't dropped once in three days. Zen have now closed the fault.
Providing the line stays stable, I'm happy that the line is now probably the best it can be until the fibre cab that was installed next to my local PCP last month is made live. No sign yet, and the RFS date I had (end of this month) has disappeared from the BT checker. Who knows what's going on - but that's another story!
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Great news.
Had exactly the same issue myself a couple of years back. The piece of cable that you describe, in my case was old lead cable, probably from the original installation. My house dates back to the late 1700's, so God only knows how old the original installation was!!! (when were phones invented?) Cracked in places and damp was getting in, hence why an intermittent fault that only got really bad in driving rain. Took them ages to spot it, they looked absolutely everywhere else. Only when I got a ladder out and poked around, did I spot it. So opened the junction box and you could see how corroded the wires were, One light touch with my little finger and one of the cores broke off. So with line now dead, BT finally (3 engineers turned up) spotted fault and replaced said cable. With the comment that they were surprised no one had spotted it before. You've got to laugh.
----
Mike
Edited by MrBeeline (Mon 26-Sep-11 15:50:44)
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