poor service

was with zen a while back but left due to issues with the silly caps they had (50gb) was with o2 for a while service was ok not stellar but for the money good, came back to zen when i noticed the usage cap had gone to 100gb bear in mind i game a lot and watch a bit of tv online so ping latency is the biggie for me, i was getting pings of 28 to my server in nl which frankly was great ok 35 quid a month but look at the service, that is until a week ago, since then my ping has gone to between 36-55 and i have constant not occasional but constant pl i looked at the route its seemingly going via germany to NL ...bit weird me thinks so i contacted Zen, got a guy called Tony on who told me nothing we can do its a routing issue lets say i wasnt happy with his frankly dismissive response, i asked if my ip could perhaps be changed to attempt to resolve the issue.. ohh that wont work besides we wont do that to say i was gobsmacked with his response is an understatment i asked to speak to a senior member/manager was told i would get a call back non available now...hmmm at this point i remarked it doesnt matter and he said ok and sniggered as the phone went down, hopefully Zen records calls and will listen to this one, i thin rang back and basically ot told the same by another member of staff, i asked again to escalate the call to a maneger, following day got a a call from another member of staff not a manager who tbh started to lecture me about the internet, i wasnt happy with this at all but to be fair i was by this time a little peeved and may have been short tempered with him upshot i sent traces of my connection across requested a manager call me back i was told this would be Monday again the request for a new ip was refused with we will never do that!... ok simple question and can a MANAGER from Zen please respond on here ...why am i paying over the odds for a "superior" service what does this get me besides staff with attitude? Tech support thats frankly rude arrogant and unhelpful? i have over the years been with Zen for some time but i have to be honest if this is the norm i can now expect ?

please can someone from Zen enlighten me where the extra you are charging is going what can you offer me? my previous isp had no issues changing ip address it was done in seconds the issue got resolved whats the big deal?

finally anyone have any experience with newnet? seems i may well be leaving Zen sooner rather than later, shame really as they are based in my Home Town, keeping it local and all that, so Zen please can i have some sort of response?

BTW our Host cant help as its the isp that determines route, my isp refuses point blank to do anything the links in between will only talk to isp's i am just the idiot in the middle paying them both money to both of them to do nothing, and yes my host is changing next week as a result of their refusal to help.

It is a lot of work for an ISP to change routing just based on one customer complaint, going to this trouble is worth well more than a single customer pays them.

Assuming you were polite with them on the phone they have no excuse to be rude to you though.

If not secret maybe if you post the IP of the said server and we could post a traceroute for you to compare.

Changing your IP address simply wont help, so I presume they were trying to explain this to you.

Changing routing can be a complex and time consuming affair, and can have cost implications well beyond what any single zen customer pays.

If an ISP is seeing a routing issue to a well used site used by many customers, then they may adjust things.

Is the host that is adding extra latency inside or outside the Zen network?

mm ok so as i see it and i may be wrong ips are given out in blocks, who knows maybe the issue wouldnt be solved by the change of ip but i suspect a change to a different block of ip would help, it has in the past when i have encountered this sort of issue, another thing i dont understand is i am routed firstly up the country to go back down to london totally bypassing manchester then across to Germany for 3 hops then back to NL, now forgive me for being blunt but any one can see that simply doesnt make sense, in no way can that be described as a better route, previous isps (o2) had no issue changing my ip and yes i was on a static one with them took the guy 5 mins and done wheres the big deal?

for what its worth i know its a load balance issue as during the day i revert to my old Manchester london nl route via level 3 network not the rubbish route i am saddled with

Tracing route to gs07.xch.nl [87.238.170.57]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 10 ms 8 ms 10 ms losubs.subs.llu1.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.82.20
]
3 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms ae0-184.cr2.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.185]
4 10 ms 9 ms 10 ms ae2-0.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.53]
5 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms xe-1-1-0.man11.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.66.101]
6 25 ms 16 ms 16 ms xe-3-0-0.lon10.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.187.21]
7 16 ms 16 ms 17 ms 213.200.77.234
8 104 ms 24 ms 25 ms DUOCAST.gigabitethernet3-1.ar4.AMS2.gblx.net [20
8.48.33.246]
9 23 ms 24 ms 23 ms gs07.xch.nl [87.238.170.57]

thats the route ping etc looks fine on there but load it and it starts dropping packets on hop 7 and 8 massively, funnily enough Tonight i am via Manchester last few days i have been via Leeds.

whats really bugged me is the attitude of the staff which i have never had before from Zen i fugure i am paying for a premium service so expect to get it if i want fobbing off and pl i can pay plusnet etal a Tenner a Month, i work in Customer Service myself and know what its like to have an@@@@@ on the other end screaming at you so i dont.

In reply to a post by cssuk:

mm ok so as i see it and i may be wrong ips are given out in blocks, who knows maybe the issue wouldnt be solved by the change of ip but i suspect a change to a different block of ip would help

Very much doubtful if it would. All Zen's IP addresses will be originated from the same AS number.

for what its worth i know its a load balance issue as during the day i revert to my old Manchester london nl route via level 3 network not the rubbish route i am saddled with

As far as I can see, the destination do take a full feed from Level3 but Zen do not appear to. As such, if the far end drop their Level3, or have higher preferences for the others (Global Crossing, KPN etc), the route will change - something Zen cannot stop from happening.

Another thing to consider is the reverse route from the server to you. This could be via a completely different path, which could be where the problem is.

Matt

Morning,

I can only apologise for the service you have had so far when dealing with support. All calls are recorded and as such I can pull the phone records for you.

We wont swap the IP's as all IP's are static and not dynamic. You can regrade to 8IP's at a cost if you have a single IP, however this will not make a difference which has been siad before.

Last week we did did note a few maintainence windows that caused a few issues and I feel your issues may either be due to this or these could have added to the problems you are/were seeing. The escalation should have been raised straight away however on weekends we do not have Team Leaders in we do have Team Seniors which should have the ability to help. Again if you did not recieve the call back or you felt you were not being treated with respect then this needs to be loooked into.

If you would like to contact me either by PM or phone, I will discuss this futher and hopefull find a resolution to your issue.

Kindest Regards,

thanks for the response, i have since spoken to zaheer i believe his name was and he will pass on my details so you can contact me, look forward to it

Hi cssuk,

Just to clarify/confirm what others have said and provide a little more information...

All Zen DSL address blocks are originated from the same AS (AS13037) and announced to our peers/transit suppliers in exactly the same way, therefore changing your IP address will not change how traffic is being routed to you (unless the remote AS [ISP]) is doing something odd to manipulate routes to us which is extremely unlikely).

Over the last week or so we have changed transit providers from Level3 and Sprint to NTT and TiNet which accounts for the change in routing to AS31477 (87.238.170.57). We also experienced an issue with one of our core links which is why you'll have noticed a shift in path out of the Zen network. Currently the preferred path between Rochdale and London is via Manchester rather than Leeds (Usually it's via Leeds).

If the issue you see is on the hops within the DuoCast network then the issue is potentially with the return path from them to Zen which unfortunately is not something that we have any control over.

I realise none of the above really changes anything, but hopefully it provides a better understanding on what's going on.

Regards,

Carl

thanks for the response, based on what you have said my current ping in game is 40ms with horrible latencey i used to be 28ms rock solid great connection, your pretty much telling me what i suspected that the itnet change was initiated from Zens end, this was denied by members of your Tech support my current trace is shown below notice the weird ip @ hop 7 and the large number of hops involved, the server host is emphatic the issue isnt them, your convinced its not you, i bet you swapped to itnet just over a week and a half ago as thats when all this started, who controls hop 7? thats where the issue is, it isnt shown on this particular case but if i watch a live ping plot that hop spikes a lot as does hop 12, its pretty academic to be honest as i am going to move the server shortly because of hop 12 but for my own peace of mind can you tell me? if the server move doesnt solve the issue then am afraid i will be going to another ISP, as the results here seem to be duplicated on other servers including uk based ones then that will probably be sooner rather than later.

1 <1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms losubs.subs.llu1.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.82.20
]
3 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms ae0-184.cr2.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.185]
4 10 ms 9 ms 9 ms ae2-0.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.53]
5 10 ms 10 ms 11 ms xe-1-1-0.man11.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.66.101]
6 17 ms 17 ms 16 ms xe-1-0-1.lon11.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.185.166]
7 16 ms 17 ms 17 ms 4.68.110.113
8 26 ms 24 ms 25 ms ae-52-52.csw2.London1.Level3.net [4.69.139.120]

9 18 ms 17 ms 18 ms ae-58-223.ebr2.London1.Level3.net [4.69.153.137]

10 23 ms 23 ms 23 ms ae-47-47.ebr2.Amsterdam1.Level3.net [4.69.143.77
]
11 24 ms 23 ms 24 ms ae-2-52.edge3.Amsterdam1.Level3.net [4.69.139.16
9]
12 135 ms 49 ms 25 ms unknown.Level3.net [212.72.33.178]
13 25 ms 25 ms 33 ms gs07.xch.nl [87.238.170.57]
******************************************************
THIS IS A LONDON BASED SERVER with a different host


1 <1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 10 ms 9 ms 10 ms losubs.subs.llu1.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.82.
]
3 13 ms 10 ms 10 ms ae0-184.cr2.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.185]
4 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms ae2-0.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.53]
5 9 ms 12 ms 10 ms xe-1-1-0.man11.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.66.101]
6 20 ms 16 ms 50 ms xe-2-1-0.lon11.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.185.229]
7 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms 4.68.110.113
8 18 ms 18 ms 18 ms 195.50.122.154
9 18 ms 19 ms 17 ms 217.163.31.66

lo and behold hop 7 again this suggests that despite all the opinions to the contrary i have been given that it is in fact a uk based issue and if its not on zens network it most certainly is on one of your peers, a little investigation would go a long way tbh, thats the kind of service i expect for 35.00 a month not the read it off a script stuff i can get from other isps, perhaps you can now understand my frustration

comments?

Hi,

What are you aiming to demonstrate with the traceroutes you've posted? From the information provided here all there is to comment on is the route data is taking - to get to the host. It doesn't illustrate a problem with that route and the number of hops here does not constitute a problem.

The host in both examples is also responding in a reasonable amount of time.

There's doesn't seem to be anything weird about the 7th hop. It's responding in a similar time to the hops immediately preceeding it in both traceroutes.

In any case, if the destination host responds in a timely fashion, without packet drops, it doesn't matter whether a traceroute shows preceeding hops dropping packets. Return paths from individual "hops" may be different than from the destination host or the hop may simply not prioritise responding to ping/traceroute.

Your best bet for illustrating the issue is pinging with a reasonably sized packet (something like 1400 bytes) for a reasonable time at a time when the problem is occurring - to see if packets are being lost at some point on the way. (ping -n 100 -l 1400 87.238.170.57). And see what % packet loss it reports.

ta,
Phil.

sigh

ok i am told by your guys that the issue i have IS outside zens network or peer network in other words its the hosts issue over in NL or somewhere in between, the issue i have is hop 6/7 which is in the UK and is on your peers network NOT on the NL side as i am being told

Target Name: gs07.xch.nl
IP: 87.238.170.57
Date/Time: 20/10/2011 18:18:15 to 20/10/2011 18:18:40

1 0 ms 0 ms N/A N/A 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms [192.168.0.1]
2 9 ms 8 ms N/A N/A 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms losubs.subs.llu1.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.82.20]
3 9 ms 9 ms N/A N/A 8 ms 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 8 ms 12 ms ae0-184.cr2.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.185]
4 9 ms 9 ms N/A N/A 8 ms 9 ms 9 ms 8 ms 8 ms 9 ms ae2-0.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.53]
5 10 ms 8 ms N/A N/A 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 8 ms 10 ms xe-1-1-0.man11.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.66.101]
6 16 ms N/A N/A N/A N/A 16 ms 15 ms 15 ms N/A 66 ms xe-1-2-0.lon10.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.187.17]
7 16 ms 16 ms N/A N/A 16 ms 41 ms 16 ms 15 ms 17 ms 174 ms [213.200.77.234]
8 24 ms 108 ms N/A N/A 23 ms 31 ms 23 ms 23 ms 23 ms 31 ms DUOCAST.gigabitethernet3-1.ar4.AMS2.gblx.net [208.48.33.246]
9 31 ms 23 ms N/A N/A 23 ms 31 ms 27 ms 23 ms 23 ms 22 ms gs07.xch.nl [87.238.170.57]

Ping statistics for gs07.xch.nl
Packets: Sent = 8, Received = 8, Lost = 0 (0.0%)
Round Trip Times: Minimum = 22ms, Maximum = 31ms, Average = 25ms

the trace above is to the NL, the one below is in the uk if you notice my earlier post the both went via
4.68.110.113 but not now when its at peak times the connection to NL from your peer partner is sent via 213.200.77.34

Target Name: N/A
IP: 217.163.31.66
Date/Time: 20/10/2011 18:22:26

1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms [192.168.0.1]
2 9 ms 7 ms 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms losubs.subs.llu1.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.82.20]
3 8 ms 11 ms 8 ms 8 ms 10 ms 8 ms ae0-184.cr2.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.185]
4 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms ae2-0.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.53]
5 9 ms 19 ms 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 8 ms xe-1-1-0.man11.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.66.101]
6 16 ms 16 ms 16 ms 16 ms 16 ms 15 ms xe-2-1-0.lon11.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.185.229]
7 16 ms 15 ms 48 ms 16 ms 22 ms 16 ms [4.68.110.113]
8 17 ms 16 ms 17 ms 20 ms 17 ms 21 ms [195.50.122.154]
9 16 ms 16 ms 16 ms 16 ms 16 ms 16 ms [217.163.31.66]

Ping statistics for 217.163.31.66
Packets: Sent = 6, Received = 6, Lost = 0 (0.0%)
Round Trip Times: Minimum = 16ms, Maximum = 16ms, Average = 16ms


so i guess what i am asking is who can speak to this partner and ask them to look at that hop to see if there is an issue a ping of 174 as shown above suggests there is

In reply to a post by cssuk:

a ping of 174 as shown above suggests there is

No it doesn't. Routers are meant to route, and it is common for them to give a lower priority to responding to tracert compared with actually routing.

Where in your evidence is there a 174ms ping to the destination? Nowhere. So there isn't a problem, and you're bashing your ISP over something that's in your imagination.

Paul

Hi,

I guess I've not explained clearly enough, so my apologies. Essentially it doesn't matter what response you get from an individual hop, so long as the destination response is okay. i.e. it can't get to the destination if a previous hop is having issues. If a single hop was causing a problem then all subsequent hops would be affected by that problem.

Instead, what you're seeing is no packet loss and a good response from the destination (minimum 22ms, maximum 31ms and average 25ms). If hops 6/7 were adding to the latency to the destination this would show - i.e. if it added around 160ms to the latency you'd have the round trip times reported more like 180-186ms. You're not seeing that, which shows that the response of 174ms from hop 7 is a red herring.

At what time of day does the packet loss occur, and can you provide a ping response that demonstrates the level of packet loss (using the command I posted in my previous reply)?

So far there's not been anything in what you've posted that demonstrates a problem. The total round-trip to the destination seems pretty reliable on each of the routes shown (though there are differences between them, but nothing that would be described as a 'problem') and there's been no indication of packet loss.

I ping'd the server myself, using a 1430 byte packet and saw the following:

1438 bytes from 87.238.170.57: icmp_seq=99 ttl=119 time=36.909 ms

--- 87.238.170.57 ping statistics ---
100 packets transmitted, 100 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 33.264/37.697/49.776/3.375 ms

So a good reliable response using a good sized packet of 1438 bytes.

The route I'm taking is:

Traceroute has started�

traceroute to 87.238.170.57 (87.238.170.57), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
1 10.0.1.1 (10.0.1.1) 3.496 ms 0.747 ms 0.597 ms
2 losubs.subs.dsl2.wh-man.zen.net.uk (62.3.87.147) 12.038 ms 12.039 ms 11.935 ms
3 ge-2-1-0-180.cr2.wh-man.zen.co.uk (62.3.87.181) 11.568 ms 11.790 ms 11.488 ms
4 xe-1-1-0.man11.ip4.tinet.net (77.67.66.101) 12.090 ms 11.683 ms 11.661 ms
5 xe-1-2-0.lon10.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.187.17) 18.997 ms 19.364 ms 18.642 ms
6 213.200.77.234 (213.200.77.234) 58.083 ms 18.436 ms 18.868 ms
7 duocast.gigabitethernet3-1.ar4.ams2.gblx.net (208.48.33.246) 29.631 ms 26.543 ms 26.676 ms
8 gs07.xch.nl (87.238.170.57) 26.799 ms 26.405 ms 26.414 ms

So one hop shorter because I'm not on Rochdale's LLU service. My hop 6 is your hop 7. But from the extended ping test I'm seeing no packet loss and a reliable response.

ta,
Phil.

ok look lets for get the whole thing, the graphs in game showing constant pl of 10-15 whilst playing and the ping increase from 28 last week to over 40 today is clearly my imagination the fact i fire a shot and move to then warp to the other side of a map is also my imagination? my pc is clean( new install last weekend) i have just bought and installed a new router (2 days ago) my Host doesnt control hop 6/7( so they say) where i see regular losses using a program called ping plotter irrespective of all this there isnt an issue? look i wouldnt be complaining if there wasnt an issue i am not imagining this i have played for years and got myself up to a certain level in my game this issue is ruining that all i want is someone to look at this, and have a constructive explanation and point the finger who controls hop 6/7 Zen, Zens peer partner or my Host in NL thats all i want to know as then i can start putting pressure on them

no your explanation is clear but your not seeing the issue look below packet size 1400 the last column shows the response notice this is a fast ping interval about 3 secs and probably more closley reflects the line load when playing perhaps a little higher but doubtful notice the final figure goes between 23 and 51 within the space of about 1 min this is what i am seeing when playing constant ping spikes, latency and generally much higher pings than i had a week ago, just one question who controls hop 6 and 7 Zen or the Host who routes me via that hop because thats the only thing that has changed over the last week that i can see again shown under that is the result of the same thing whilst i have been typing this

Host Information
1, -------------- ,192.168.0.1
2,losubs.subs.llu1.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk,62.3.82.20
3,ae0-184.cr2.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.185
4,ae2-0.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.53
5,xe-1-1-0.man11.ip4.tinet.net,77.67.66.101
6,xe-1-2-0.lon10.ip4.tinet.net,89.149.187.17
7, -------------- ,213.200.77.234
8,DUOCAST.gigabitethernet3-1.ar4.AMS2.gblx.net,208.48.33.246
9,gs07.xch.nl,87.238.170.57

Sample Information
"20/10/2011 19:41:53",1,9,8,10,9,17,17,25,23
"20/10/2011 19:41:55",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,23,31
"20/10/2011 19:41:58",0,8,8,9,9,N/A,65,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:42:00",0,8,8,9,9,16,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:03",0,9,9,8,9,N/A,165,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:05",0,8,8,9,10,16,16,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:08",0,10,9,8,9,N/A,15,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:10",0,8,8,10,9,35,15,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:13",0,8,8,9,8,N/A,15,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:15",0,8,9,8,9,43,16,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:18",0,9,9,10,10,16,16,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:20",0,9,8,9,9,N/A,16,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:23",0,8,9,9,10,N/A,129,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:25",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,32,31
"20/10/2011 19:42:28",0,9,9,25,9,N/A,20,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:30",0,9,9,10,9,N/A,16,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:33",0,8,9,9,9,16,17,24,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:35",0,9,9,9,9,N/A,17,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:38",0,9,8,9,9,16,19,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:40",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,16,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:42:43",0,8,8,9,10,N/A,16,23,22
"20/10/2011 19:42:45",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,16,23,25
"20/10/2011 19:42:48",0,8,9,9,9,16,16,136,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:50",0,8,8,9,10,N/A,17,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:53",0,8,10,9,9,N/A,15,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:55",0,8,9,18,8,15,16,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:58",0,8,8,8,9,16,114,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:00",0,9,8,9,8,N/A,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:03",0,9,9,19,10,15,16,88,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:06",0,9,8,10,8,30,17,24,30
"20/10/2011 19:43:08",0,9,8,9,9,16,16,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:43:11",0,8,9,8,9,N/A,64,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:13",0,8,10,8,8,N/A,15,28,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:16",0,9,10,9,9,N/A,17,31,32
"20/10/2011 19:43:18",0,9,9,10,9,16,16,58,24
"20/10/2011 19:43:21",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:43:23",0,9,9,9,10,N/A,16,24,31
"20/10/2011 19:43:26",0,9,17,8,9,16,17,32,24
"20/10/2011 19:43:28",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,22,31
"20/10/2011 19:43:31",0,9,10,10,9,N/A,45,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:33",0,8,9,9,9,15,22,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:43:36",0,8,18,9,9,N/A,16,32,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:38",0,8,10,30,9,N/A,117,32,26
"20/10/2011 19:43:41",0,9,8,9,9,16,16,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:43:43",0,8,9,9,9,16,16,23,31
"20/10/2011 19:43:46",0,8,21,8,9,15,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:48",0,8,8,9,10,N/A,15,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:51",0,8,8,8,8,N/A,15,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:53",0,9,9,8,9,16,16,23,32
"20/10/2011 19:43:56",0,9,8,43,9,N/A,15,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:43:58",0,9,8,9,9,15,17,32,30
"20/10/2011 19:44:01",0,9,9,8,9,16,15,32,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:03",0,9,9,9,9,N/A,17,32,24
"20/10/2011 19:44:06",0,9,9,9,9,N/A,16,24,31
"20/10/2011 19:44:08",0,9,9,10,9,17,16,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:11",0,8,8,9,9,N/A,71,23,30
"20/10/2011 19:44:13",0,9,8,9,9,N/A,88,22,24
"20/10/2011 19:44:16",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,24,24
"20/10/2011 19:44:18",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,17,32,27
"20/10/2011 19:44:21",0,9,8,9,9,17,16,23,25
"20/10/2011 19:44:23",0,8,9,10,9,16,17,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:44:26",0,8,8,13,9,N/A,16,23,22
"20/10/2011 19:44:28",0,9,8,9,9,N/A,17,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:31",0,8,8,9,10,16,16,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:44:33",0,9,9,9,9,N/A,16,24,31
"20/10/2011 19:44:36",0,9,8,9,9,N/A,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:38",0,8,8,9,8,16,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:41",0,8,8,10,9,N/A,173,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:44:43",0,9,8,22,9,N/A,16,24,31
"20/10/2011 19:44:46",0,7,9,10,9,15,15,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:48",0,9,8,8,9,N/A,143,23,28
"20/10/2011 19:44:51",0,8,18,9,8,N/A,16,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:54",0,9,10,9,9,37,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:56",0,9,9,9,9,N/A,16,32,22
"20/10/2011 19:44:59",0,8,9,8,8,37,16,24,26
"20/10/2011 19:45:01",0,10,9,9,9,N/A,16,101,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:04",0,8,9,10,10,16,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:06",0,9,9,10,9,16,16,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:09",0,9,9,9,10,N/A,16,23,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:11",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,16,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:45:14",0,10,9,9,13,16,17,32,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:16",0,8,40,30,14,N/A,16,86,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:19",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,23,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:21",0,9,8,9,10,15,16,23,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:24",0,8,8,9,9,N/A,16,24,26
"20/10/2011 19:45:26",0,8,10,33,9,16,128,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:29",0,8,9,10,10,15,17,31,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:31",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,16,33,32
"20/10/2011 19:45:34",0,10,9,10,9,16,16,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:36",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,16,22,22
"20/10/2011 19:45:39",0,8,9,10,9,N/A,15,27,24
"20/10/2011 19:45:41",1,11,15,9,13,19,24,27,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:44",1,24,22,21,24,20,21,24,30
"20/10/2011 19:45:46",0,9,11,9,10,N/A,194,34,33
"20/10/2011 19:45:49",0,8,9,9,9,16,16,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:51",0,9,8,9,11,51,19,26,32
"20/10/2011 19:45:54",0,9,9,8,9,N/A,15,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:45:56",0,9,9,10,9,N/A,17,24,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:59",0,8,9,9,9,16,16,32,23
"20/10/2011 19:46:01",0,20,19,21,20,27,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:04",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,27,34,38
"20/10/2011 19:46:06",0,20,21,20,20,28,229,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:09",0,19,20,21,20,28,27,34,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:11",0,20,19,21,21,N/A,28,35,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:14",0,20,21,20,21,28,28,36,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:16",0,19,21,21,21,N/A,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:19",0,20,22,21,21,28,34,35,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:21",0,20,21,21,21,26,30,43,44
"20/10/2011 19:46:24",0,21,21,26,25,27,83,48,47
"20/10/2011 19:46:26",0,24,24,22,24,28,29,49,45
"20/10/2011 19:46:29",0,25,29,30,28,N/A,31,52,51
"20/10/2011 19:46:31",0,20,21,21,21,N/A,28,36,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:34",0,21,20,21,21,27,29,34,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:36",0,20,21,20,20,27,27,34,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:39",0,20,20,27,21,27,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:42",0,21,20,21,20,N/A,209,36,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:44",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,28,43,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:47",0,20,20,20,20,27,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:49",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,27,36,35
"20/10/2011 19:46:52",0,20,20,21,21,27,29,35,38
"20/10/2011 19:46:54",0,20,20,21,20,27,28,34,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:57",0,20,19,21,20,N/A,28,43,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:59",0,21,20,20,20,N/A,27,137,38
"20/10/2011 19:47:02",0,20,21,20,22,28,27,35,36
"20/10/2011 19:47:04",0,21,29,21,20,N/A,28,34,45
"20/10/2011 19:47:07",0,20,21,21,22,N/A,29,36,35
"20/10/2011 19:47:09",0,21,19,21,21,27,29,43,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:12",0,21,20,20,21,28,30,35,45
"20/10/2011 19:47:14",0,20,20,37,21,N/A,28,100,38
"20/10/2011 19:47:17",0,20,21,21,20,28,27,42,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:19",0,20,21,20,21,27,28,35,38
"20/10/2011 19:47:22",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,101,36,46
"20/10/2011 19:47:24",0,20,20,23,20,27,27,35,36
"20/10/2011 19:47:27",0,20,20,20,21,N/A,28,36,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:29",0,20,20,20,21,28,28,35,36
"20/10/2011 19:47:32",0,20,21,20,20,N/A,27,35,38
"20/10/2011 19:47:34",0,20,20,20,21,N/A,28,35,44
"20/10/2011 19:47:37",0,20,20,20,20,27,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:39",0,20,20,20,21,54,28,43,44
"20/10/2011 19:47:42",0,20,21,20,21,28,27,34,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:44",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,205,34,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:47",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,27,44,38
"20/10/2011 19:47:49",0,20,20,21,21,27,29,36,45
"20/10/2011 19:47:52",0,20,21,21,21,N/A,122,36,44
"20/10/2011 19:47:54",0,19,21,40,21,28,27,42,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:57",0,21,21,20,21,28,28,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:59",0,21,20,21,21,N/A,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:48:02",0,20,21,21,21,N/A,26,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:48:04",0,20,21,21,21,28,27,36,38
"20/10/2011 19:48:07",0,20,19,21,21,N/A,28,34,45
"20/10/2011 19:48:09",0,20,26,20,24,N/A,28,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:48:12",0,20,21,20,20,N/A,28,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:48:14",0,21,20,20,21,28,28,36,38
"20/10/2011 19:48:17",0,20,20,21,21,52,28,43,38
"20/10/2011 19:48:19",0,21,20,31,21,N/A,27,35,38
"20/10/2011 19:48:22",0,20,20,20,21,28,27,34,38
"20/10/2011 19:48:24",0,20,N/A,N/A,N/A,N/A,N/A,N/A,N/A

***********************************************************************************

again notice the last figure thats the ping

Host Information
1, -------------- ,192.168.0.1
2,losubs.subs.llu1.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk,62.3.82.20
3,ae0-184.cr2.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.185
4,ae2-0.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.53
5,xe-1-1-0.man11.ip4.tinet.net,77.67.66.101
6,xe-1-2-0.lon10.ip4.tinet.net,89.149.187.17
7, -------------- ,213.200.77.234
8,DUOCAST.gigabitethernet3-1.ar4.AMS2.gblx.net,208.48.33.246
9,gs07.xch.nl,87.238.170.57

Sample Information
"20/10/2011 19:41:53",1,9,8,10,9,17,17,25,23
"20/10/2011 19:41:55",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,23,31
"20/10/2011 19:41:58",0,8,8,9,9,N/A,65,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:42:00",0,8,8,9,9,16,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:03",0,9,9,8,9,N/A,165,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:05",0,8,8,9,10,16,16,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:08",0,10,9,8,9,N/A,15,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:10",0,8,8,10,9,35,15,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:13",0,8,8,9,8,N/A,15,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:15",0,8,9,8,9,43,16,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:18",0,9,9,10,10,16,16,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:20",0,9,8,9,9,N/A,16,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:23",0,8,9,9,10,N/A,129,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:25",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,32,31
"20/10/2011 19:42:28",0,9,9,25,9,N/A,20,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:30",0,9,9,10,9,N/A,16,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:33",0,8,9,9,9,16,17,24,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:35",0,9,9,9,9,N/A,17,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:38",0,9,8,9,9,16,19,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:40",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,16,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:42:43",0,8,8,9,10,N/A,16,23,22
"20/10/2011 19:42:45",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,16,23,25
"20/10/2011 19:42:48",0,8,9,9,9,16,16,136,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:50",0,8,8,9,10,N/A,17,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:42:53",0,8,10,9,9,N/A,15,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:55",0,8,9,18,8,15,16,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:42:58",0,8,8,8,9,16,114,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:00",0,9,8,9,8,N/A,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:03",0,9,9,19,10,15,16,88,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:06",0,9,8,10,8,30,17,24,30
"20/10/2011 19:43:08",0,9,8,9,9,16,16,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:43:11",0,8,9,8,9,N/A,64,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:13",0,8,10,8,8,N/A,15,28,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:16",0,9,10,9,9,N/A,17,31,32
"20/10/2011 19:43:18",0,9,9,10,9,16,16,58,24
"20/10/2011 19:43:21",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:43:23",0,9,9,9,10,N/A,16,24,31
"20/10/2011 19:43:26",0,9,17,8,9,16,17,32,24
"20/10/2011 19:43:28",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,22,31
"20/10/2011 19:43:31",0,9,10,10,9,N/A,45,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:33",0,8,9,9,9,15,22,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:43:36",0,8,18,9,9,N/A,16,32,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:38",0,8,10,30,9,N/A,117,32,26
"20/10/2011 19:43:41",0,9,8,9,9,16,16,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:43:43",0,8,9,9,9,16,16,23,31
"20/10/2011 19:43:46",0,8,21,8,9,15,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:48",0,8,8,9,10,N/A,15,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:51",0,8,8,8,8,N/A,15,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:43:53",0,9,9,8,9,16,16,23,32
"20/10/2011 19:43:56",0,9,8,43,9,N/A,15,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:43:58",0,9,8,9,9,15,17,32,30
"20/10/2011 19:44:01",0,9,9,8,9,16,15,32,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:03",0,9,9,9,9,N/A,17,32,24
"20/10/2011 19:44:06",0,9,9,9,9,N/A,16,24,31
"20/10/2011 19:44:08",0,9,9,10,9,17,16,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:11",0,8,8,9,9,N/A,71,23,30
"20/10/2011 19:44:13",0,9,8,9,9,N/A,88,22,24
"20/10/2011 19:44:16",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,24,24
"20/10/2011 19:44:18",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,17,32,27
"20/10/2011 19:44:21",0,9,8,9,9,17,16,23,25
"20/10/2011 19:44:23",0,8,9,10,9,16,17,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:44:26",0,8,8,13,9,N/A,16,23,22
"20/10/2011 19:44:28",0,9,8,9,9,N/A,17,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:31",0,8,8,9,10,16,16,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:44:33",0,9,9,9,9,N/A,16,24,31
"20/10/2011 19:44:36",0,9,8,9,9,N/A,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:38",0,8,8,9,8,16,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:41",0,8,8,10,9,N/A,173,23,24
"20/10/2011 19:44:43",0,9,8,22,9,N/A,16,24,31
"20/10/2011 19:44:46",0,7,9,10,9,15,15,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:48",0,9,8,8,9,N/A,143,23,28
"20/10/2011 19:44:51",0,8,18,9,8,N/A,16,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:54",0,9,10,9,9,37,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:44:56",0,9,9,9,9,N/A,16,32,22
"20/10/2011 19:44:59",0,8,9,8,8,37,16,24,26
"20/10/2011 19:45:01",0,10,9,9,9,N/A,16,101,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:04",0,8,9,10,10,16,16,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:06",0,9,9,10,9,16,16,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:09",0,9,9,9,10,N/A,16,23,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:11",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,16,31,24
"20/10/2011 19:45:14",0,10,9,9,13,16,17,32,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:16",0,8,40,30,14,N/A,16,86,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:19",0,9,9,9,9,16,16,23,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:21",0,9,8,9,10,15,16,23,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:24",0,8,8,9,9,N/A,16,24,26
"20/10/2011 19:45:26",0,8,10,33,9,16,128,23,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:29",0,8,9,10,10,15,17,31,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:31",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,16,33,32
"20/10/2011 19:45:34",0,10,9,10,9,16,16,31,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:36",0,8,9,9,9,N/A,16,22,22
"20/10/2011 19:45:39",0,8,9,10,9,N/A,15,27,24
"20/10/2011 19:45:41",1,11,15,9,13,19,24,27,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:44",1,24,22,21,24,20,21,24,30
"20/10/2011 19:45:46",0,9,11,9,10,N/A,194,34,33
"20/10/2011 19:45:49",0,8,9,9,9,16,16,24,23
"20/10/2011 19:45:51",0,9,8,9,11,51,19,26,32
"20/10/2011 19:45:54",0,9,9,8,9,N/A,15,24,22
"20/10/2011 19:45:56",0,9,9,10,9,N/A,17,24,31
"20/10/2011 19:45:59",0,8,9,9,9,16,16,32,23
"20/10/2011 19:46:01",0,20,19,21,20,27,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:04",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,27,34,38
"20/10/2011 19:46:06",0,20,21,20,20,28,229,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:09",0,19,20,21,20,28,27,34,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:11",0,20,19,21,21,N/A,28,35,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:14",0,20,21,20,21,28,28,36,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:16",0,19,21,21,21,N/A,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:19",0,20,22,21,21,28,34,35,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:21",0,20,21,21,21,26,30,43,44
"20/10/2011 19:46:24",0,21,21,26,25,27,83,48,47
"20/10/2011 19:46:26",0,24,24,22,24,28,29,49,45
"20/10/2011 19:46:29",0,25,29,30,28,N/A,31,52,51
"20/10/2011 19:46:31",0,20,21,21,21,N/A,28,36,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:34",0,21,20,21,21,27,29,34,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:36",0,20,21,20,20,27,27,34,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:39",0,20,20,27,21,27,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:42",0,21,20,21,20,N/A,209,36,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:44",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,28,43,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:47",0,20,20,20,20,27,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:49",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,27,36,35
"20/10/2011 19:46:52",0,20,20,21,21,27,29,35,38
"20/10/2011 19:46:54",0,20,20,21,20,27,28,34,36
"20/10/2011 19:46:57",0,20,19,21,20,N/A,28,43,37
"20/10/2011 19:46:59",0,21,20,20,20,N/A,27,137,38
"20/10/2011 19:47:02",0,20,21,20,22,28,27,35,36
"20/10/2011 19:47:04",0,21,29,21,20,N/A,28,34,45
"20/10/2011 19:47:07",0,20,21,21,22,N/A,29,36,35
"20/10/2011 19:47:09",0,21,19,21,21,27,29,43,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:12",0,21,20,20,21,28,30,35,45
"20/10/2011 19:47:14",0,20,20,37,21,N/A,28,100,38
"20/10/2011 19:47:17",0,20,21,21,20,28,27,42,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:19",0,20,21,20,21,27,28,35,38
"20/10/2011 19:47:22",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,101,36,46
"20/10/2011 19:47:24",0,20,20,23,20,27,27,35,36
"20/10/2011 19:47:27",0,20,20,20,21,N/A,28,36,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:29",0,20,20,20,21,28,28,35,36
"20/10/2011 19:47:32",0,20,21,20,20,N/A,27,35,38
"20/10/2011 19:47:34",0,20,20,20,21,N/A,28,35,44
"20/10/2011 19:47:37",0,20,20,20,20,27,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:39",0,20,20,20,21,54,28,43,44
"20/10/2011 19:47:42",0,20,21,20,21,28,27,34,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:44",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,205,34,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:47",0,20,20,20,20,N/A,27,44,38
"20/10/2011 19:47:49",0,20,20,21,21,27,29,36,45
"20/10/2011 19:47:52",0,20,21,21,21,N/A,122,36,44
"20/10/2011 19:47:54",0,19,21,40,21,28,27,42,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:57",0,21,21,20,21,28,28,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:47:59",0,21,20,21,21,N/A,27,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:48:02",0,20,21,21,21,N/A,26,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:48:04",0,20,21,21,21,28,27,36,38
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"20/10/2011 19:56:42",0,20,21,21,21,27,30,35,37
"20/10/2011 19:56:44",0,20,21,20,20,27,28,35,37

oops dual post deleted

Edited by cssuk (Thu 20-Oct-11 20:03:36)

My own test were pinging once a second.

The ping 'spikes' are extremely small - and as your own data shows, not very frequent. Your data isn't dissimilar to mine and it still doesn't identify a problem with any particular hop.

Neither Zen nor the Host operate that hop. It's a route the traffic has chosen to take as (for any number of extremely complex reasons, which Google could explain better than I could) it considers it the 'best' available.

From what you've provided, and from my own tests, we can see a nominal increase in latency, but nothing that would be considered a 'fault'. I wouldn't expect what we've seen in these tests to translate to any problems in-game. If you had spikes up to hundreds of ms, potentially - but this tiny increase wouldn't affect play.

ta,
Phil.

I'm in agreement with Phil.

213.200.77.234, which is the hop you -think- is giving you issues, really isn't. In fact, upon the evidence I present below, I think they give lower priority to ANY traffic that is NOT being routed through it (so traffic destined to the hop itself is actually de-prioritised). I have some what confirmed this by doing a TCP traceroute (ping) against it, with the same 'bad' results:

# for i in $(seq 100); do tcptraceroute -n 213.200.77.234 -p 1 -f 8; sleep 1; done 2>&1 | grep '^ '
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 15.766 ms 13.801 ms 13.913 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.786 ms 14.833 ms 13.920 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.792 ms 14.830 ms 14.934 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.831 ms 14.814 ms 14.928 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 15.813 ms 34.833 ms 21.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.787 ms 13.830 ms 14.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.774 ms 14.826 ms 14.937 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 58.819 ms 17.793 ms 16.922 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.803 ms 15.818 ms 16.925 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 41.838 ms 207.799 ms 138.944 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 25.789 ms 47.834 ms 13.907 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.803 ms 14.817 ms 14.924 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.822 ms 13.822 ms 14.921 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.799 ms 14.828 ms 14.937 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.763 ms 12.831 ms 13.931 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.778 ms 13.818 ms 13.940 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.807 ms 13.819 ms 14.926 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.786 ms 13.820 ms 13.934 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.799 ms 14.809 ms 13.932 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 34.810 ms 31.819 ms 22.925 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 243.810 ms 278.807 ms 278.974 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 130.800 ms 215.843 ms 42.879 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.831 ms 12.823 ms 11.921 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.824 ms 12.822 ms 13.963 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 191.848 ms 213.768 ms 205.961 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 77.803 ms 223.886 ms 214.899 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.862 ms 15.805 ms 15.926 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.803 ms 13.825 ms 12.934 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.812 ms 12.817 ms 11.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.831 ms 12.819 ms 12.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.819 ms 12.813 ms 11.928 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.820 ms 12.814 ms 13.924 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 11.802 ms 12.816 ms 12.928 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.863 ms 13.773 ms 13.933 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.813 ms 12.825 ms 13.959 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.801 ms 12.818 ms 13.931 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.580 ms 11.823 ms 12.928 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.560 ms 12.826 ms 12.926 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.571 ms 12.820 ms 12.925 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 153.530 ms 13.825 ms 13.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.565 ms 13.821 ms 12.925 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.580 ms 12.822 ms 11.925 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.553 ms 12.822 ms 12.924 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.555 ms 12.820 ms 13.933 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.548 ms * 12.691 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.553 ms 12.825 ms 12.930 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 147.548 ms 143.852 ms 38.915 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.519 ms 12.837 ms 12.928 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 28.562 ms 13.825 ms 13.921 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.549 ms 12.826 ms 12.929 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.539 ms 12.823 ms 12.929 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.565 ms 12.879 ms 11.874 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.542 ms 12.826 ms 12.930 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.557 ms 13.822 ms 12.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.555 ms 12.824 ms 11.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.566 ms 12.823 ms 13.926 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.473 ms 13.834 ms 13.939 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.590 ms 13.825 ms 12.923 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.519 ms 13.823 ms 14.929 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 150.535 ms 202.815 ms 211.962 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 34.594 ms 16.792 ms 13.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.573 ms 14.824 ms 14.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.554 ms 12.830 ms 12.929 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 75.543 ms 14.830 ms 13.933 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.529 ms 13.836 ms 12.934 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.536 ms 14.826 ms 13.932 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 61.782 ms 13.834 ms 13.928 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.826 ms 13.823 ms 13.918 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.827 ms 12.847 ms 13.896 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.814 ms 15.804 ms 12.924 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.798 ms 12.853 ms 12.901 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.799 ms 11.822 ms 12.931 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.789 ms 13.827 ms 15.931 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.812 ms 12.830 ms 12.931 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.856 ms 12.814 ms 12.930 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.813 ms 13.828 ms 84.937 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.783 ms 12.826 ms 12.923 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.802 ms 13.871 ms 12.890 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.787 ms 13.831 ms *
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.773 ms 13.838 ms 13.920 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 11.848 ms 11.820 ms 11.921 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.815 ms 12.855 ms 13.889 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.808 ms 12.829 ms 13.938 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.803 ms 13.827 ms 13.929 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.842 ms 14.819 ms 14.924 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.800 ms 12.827 ms 12.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 14.812 ms 78.818 ms 13.920 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.818 ms 12.820 ms 12.926 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.802 ms 12.827 ms 12.929 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 125.860 ms 207.807 ms 243.933 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 16.851 ms 13.807 ms 40.913 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 13.826 ms 11.824 ms 11.928 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.816 ms 12.810 ms 11.932 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.795 ms 12.831 ms 13.922 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.796 ms 12.821 ms 12.930 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 40.827 ms 12.805 ms 12.927 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 15.810 ms 19.817 ms 22.930 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 12.854 ms 12.814 ms 12.929 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 158.826 ms 95.822 ms 12.909 ms
8 213.200.77.234 [closed] 71.810 ms 21.810 ms 13.922 ms

Pinging your host directly, I get these results:

--- 87.238.170.57 ping statistics ---
100 packets transmitted, 100 received, 0% packet loss, time 99201ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 18.211/19.473/23.912/0.894 ms

Even with a larger packet size, things look stable:

--- 87.238.170.57 ping statistics ---
100 packets transmitted, 100 received, 0% packet loss, time 99205ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 31.818/33.119/38.899/1.032 ms

Here's tcp ping against your server:

for i in $(seq 100); do tcptraceroute -n 87.238.170.57 -p 443 -f 10; sleep 1; done 2>&1 | grep '^10'
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 21.304 ms 21.827 ms 18.935 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.330 ms 18.820 ms 17.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.334 ms 19.822 ms 18.949 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.306 ms 18.823 ms 18.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.325 ms 20.829 ms 18.919 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.316 ms 18.824 ms 18.959 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.307 ms 18.836 ms 18.930 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.322 ms 18.836 ms 18.905 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.324 ms 18.820 ms 19.921 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.335 ms 18.819 ms 18.927 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 21.365 ms 18.807 ms 17.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 20.333 ms 20.814 ms 18.925 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.365 ms 18.796 ms 18.927 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 20.351 ms 18.816 ms 17.924 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.325 ms 18.841 ms 19.914 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 20.315 ms 18.865 ms 18.894 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.336 ms 18.832 ms 18.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.314 ms 17.831 ms 17.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.332 ms 17.826 ms 18.927 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.342 ms 20.815 ms 18.939 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.338 ms 19.825 ms 18.927 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.338 ms 20.855 ms 18.910 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 24.346 ms 18.820 ms 18.938 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.352 ms 18.822 ms 18.924 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.351 ms 21.826 ms 18.930 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 20.315 ms 19.817 ms 18.929 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.342 ms * 18.703 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 18.342 ms 18.826 ms 19.923 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.323 ms 18.825 ms 18.929 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.333 ms 17.826 ms 18.939 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.354 ms 18.829 ms 18.929 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.363 ms 18.818 ms 19.930 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 22.371 ms 18.816 ms 18.938 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.316 ms 18.833 ms 18.943 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.356 ms 18.830 ms 18.927 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.362 ms 20.826 ms 18.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 20.381 ms 22.812 ms 18.927 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.101 ms 21.827 ms 19.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.100 ms 18.831 ms 18.931 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.120 ms 18.825 ms 18.926 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 20.098 ms 18.843 ms 18.924 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.125 ms 19.807 ms 17.929 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.156 ms 18.820 ms 18.924 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.100 ms 18.827 ms 20.929 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.122 ms 18.841 ms 20.989 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.139 ms 18.821 ms 17.932 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.135 ms 18.773 ms 18.924 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.100 ms 18.834 ms 19.926 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.136 ms 18.836 ms 18.927 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.136 ms 17.824 ms 18.923 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.137 ms 18.824 ms 18.922 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.138 ms 19.890 ms 18.876 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 20.312 ms 19.840 ms 18.934 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.136 ms 18.843 ms 18.917 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 18.899 ms 18.177 ms 18.915 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.134 ms 18.802 ms 18.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 23.144 ms 23.826 ms 17.926 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.128 ms 17.822 ms 18.926 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.153 ms 18.826 ms 18.927 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 21.129 ms 18.824 ms 18.930 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.123 ms 18.826 ms 19.196 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.391 ms 18.820 ms 18.926 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.433 ms 20.812 ms 20.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.404 ms 18.823 ms 18.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 18.454 ms 18.818 ms 18.930 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 20.391 ms 18.833 ms 18.931 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.417 ms 18.812 ms 18.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.413 ms 18.826 ms 17.932 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.402 ms 18.828 ms 18.927 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.396 ms 18.820 ms 21.929 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.420 ms 18.821 ms 18.931 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.436 ms 18.822 ms 18.925 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.424 ms 18.846 ms 21.915 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 22.451 ms 18.813 ms 18.962 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.206 ms 19.001 ms 20.925 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.421 ms 18.826 ms 19.932 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.409 ms 18.820 ms 18.935 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 18.151 ms 17.818 ms 18.930 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 20.424 ms 18.827 ms 18.924 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.414 ms 19.816 ms 18.934 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 21.442 ms 20.812 ms 18.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.389 ms 20.826 ms 18.928 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.444 ms 18.819 ms 18.924 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 18.507 ms 18.790 ms 18.921 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.436 ms 18.765 ms 18.917 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.434 ms 18.821 ms 18.922 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.435 ms 18.843 ms 21.927 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.440 ms 18.821 ms 18.932 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 18.459 ms 18.818 ms 18.912 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.450 ms 18.829 ms 18.953 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 18.462 ms 22.822 ms 17.920 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.449 ms 18.830 ms 18.933 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 22.426 ms 18.823 ms 17.934 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.452 ms 18.818 ms 19.929 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 18.454 ms 18.828 ms 18.926 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 18.442 ms 18.835 ms 20.932 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 18.459 ms 18.824 ms 18.926 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.429 ms 19.823 ms 19.931 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 20.451 ms 17.830 ms 18.923 ms
10 87.238.170.57 [closed] 19.205 ms 18.774 ms 18.933 ms

I note one dropped packet above, but that's nothing to worry about (or is it?)

So it is either a congested upload you have on your broadband, or, there is something not quite right with the end server (maybe its TCP stack is overloaded, and so causing jitter whilst you are playing, but not actually from something you are able to measure via ping or otherwise?). What OS is the end server? Who maintains it? Just how busy is it during peak times? When do your gaming issues mostly occur, and how frequently?

Note I am not using Zen - A&A here, so this rules Zen out of being the cause.

So the plot thickens. Asymmetric routing appears to be happening on some hops (but I take a different route to you so it's hard to say this is affecting things really):

tracepath -n 87.238.170.57
1: 192.168.0.11 0.190ms pmtu 1500
1: 192.168.0.1 0.585ms
1: 192.168.0.1 0.551ms
2: 192.168.0.1 0.496ms pmtu 1492
2: 90.155.53.111 22.502ms
3: 90.155.53.6 21.953ms
4: 212.187.197.193 22.959ms asymm 5
5: 4.69.139.120 22.955ms
6: 4.69.153.133 22.985ms
7: 4.69.143.69 29.929ms
8: no reply
9: 212.72.33.178 31.655ms asymm 10
10: 87.238.170.57 33.154ms reached
Resume: pmtu 1492 hops 10 back 118

Not sure if the other asymmetric hop might be more of concern however.

Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Oct-11 20:47:47)

mm perhaps a response along the way isnt being picked upor no response is sent hence the discrepancy, the server we have is linux, it runs a few games via VM but is easily able to cope with all this as the hardware is well up to the job, dual xeons and a 6 year old game doesnt make for much work to be honest, all the vms have there own ip yet only the ip for one game is affected hence my annoyance, ie same box different ips, we control the server and we have also reloaded the games and in fact did a clean install of the whole package as well, we have an active redirect on another server which offloads all map and data downloads so again this isnt an issue.

to be honest i thank you all for the efforts but we have decided to move the server anyway as the response from our host has been less than helpful not only this time but with another issue we had with another clan member from another country, the new host test servers show pings of 20ms and nil pl and we will be parked on the same ip range in the same datacentre so hopefully that will be an end to the issue.

So it's a visualised (guest) server? This opens up a whole load of possibilities. There will be contention going on with it then, CPU, disk and network, to name a few. All you need is some other guest running on the same physical server to be being hammered (or possibly a few) and that can detriment how your one operates. This is tricky to measure, but I've seen it happen on the VM I have.

Time to either up the spec of the VM (so it has more resources from the physical server to use) or pay your money and get a dedicated box.

its our box, frankly it could run all the vms on a quarter of its spec the vms are all setup at 3 x actual needs and never get anywhere near bottlenecking either on the conection or ram, cpu,HDD use etc. it isnt the box its now 6.30 ish am there is 0 load on the server right now yet the same result

Host Information
1, -------------- ,192.168.0.1
2,losubs.subs.llu1.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk,62.3.82.20
3,ae0-184.cr2.mbr-roch.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.185
4,ae2-0.cr2.wh-man.zen.net.uk,62.3.80.53
5,xe-1-1-0.man11.ip4.tinet.net,77.67.66.101
6,xe-1-2-0.lon10.ip4.tinet.net,89.149.187.17
7, -------------- ,213.200.77.234
8,DUOCAST.gigabitethernet3-1.ar4.AMS2.gblx.net,208.48.33.246
9,gs07.xch.nl,87.238.170.57

Sample Information
"21/10/2011 06:35:22",1,22,21,22,22,N/A,28,36,38
"21/10/2011 06:35:24",1,21,20,20,23,N/A,27,36,37
"21/10/2011 06:35:27",0,20,22,21,22,28,28,35,36
"21/10/2011 06:35:29",1,20,21,21,21,29,31,59,37
"21/10/2011 06:35:32",0,20,20,20,21,27,27,35,40
"21/10/2011 06:35:34",0,20,24,39,23,27,28,36,37
"21/10/2011 06:35:37",1,21,21,21,23,30,91,35,47
"21/10/2011 06:35:39",0,25,20,20,22,27,28,35,36
"21/10/2011 06:35:42",0,20,23,20,23,28,65,37,45
"21/10/2011 06:35:44",0,22,20,22,21,32,28,43,36
"21/10/2011 06:35:47",0,21,20,21,20,27,47,43,38
"21/10/2011 06:35:49",0,21,20,20,21,28,29,34,44
"21/10/2011 06:35:52",0,23,23,20,25,N/A,27,35,37
"21/10/2011 06:35:54",0,25,20,21,20,N/A,27,36,44
"21/10/2011 06:35:57",0,21,20,20,24,27,29,43,38
"21/10/2011 06:35:59",0,22,21,21,24,31,30,42,37
"21/10/2011 06:36:02",0,21,20,23,21,29,27,36,36

Hello

Hop 6's IP belongs to Tinet (according to a RIPE lookup https://apps.db.ripe.net/search/query.html?searchtex... who are one of Zen's transit providers

HOWEVER, the next hop looks to be a peering connection between Tinet and what was Global Crossing which would now be Level 3 which your provider appears to take a feed from so it maybe an idea to have a chat with their tech support incase there's a switch or something somewhere which maybe holding things up but wouldn't appear on a tracert.

As Zen say though it looks acceptable but I do appreicate from your point of view the performance has decreased but it would not be something Zen has control over.

hi this issue is now resolved i gave up and moved the server in NL to another host, the routing is now back to normal and pings have dropped back to 24-28ms with no PL no idea whose fault it was as both parties blamed the other but i am assured the host has no intention of changing its peers over the next 24 Months i have a trace to and from the Host so if it changes i know who to blame!

Hi

Glad its sorted.

If the problem occurs again it might be worth looking for a host with a direct connection to LINX as that would in theory shorten the route and take out a third party so that there's less to go wrong.

Edited by techguy (Sun 05-Feb-12 20:31:49)