In reply to a post by Adrian:

In reply to a post by ukwiz:

IDNet have had it for a couple of years. They give you a v6 address block and let you get on with it. It isn't officially supported, but is there for testing purposes. Having said that, they will help as much as they can.

IDNet IPv6 works very well though I did have an issue with not being able to set rDNS on IPv6. This was something to do with RIPE and the IDNet address block, but it has now been satisfactorily resolved. If IDNet and AAISP can do it why can't/won't Zen?

It must be because Zen's cost:benefit analysis of their customer base's likely usage of IPv6 services says that it would cost more than any increase in income to the business due to it being provided. As with everything in business, they may be correct in their analysis or they may not.

In the longer term IPv6 will come, but it has to be said that the way it has been specified, and the lack of simple backwards compatibility with existing addressing mechanisms, is a serious limitation on takeup even in the face of IPv4 address exhaustion.

dual stacking is the answer, so someone dual stacked is effectively in backwards compatability mode. Eventually enough endpoints will be on ipv6 where no longer automatically allocating ipv4 to new connections becomes somewhat viable.

This may be an area I fear regulation is needed as isp's will only make the decision based on business merits.

It is self regulated because as more IPv4 space runs out ISPs will have no choice. IPv4 will be here for a very long time to come, it is not going anywhere overnight. At the moment there is no disadvantage by not having IPv6 to the home user, there really isn't. It would be nice to have IPv6 so I can boast about it (not like anyone would care) but beyond that I have absolutely no use for it at the moment, if I don't, chances most home users don't either.

That is not to say Zen should move slowly - I would expect them to do something about this in the next 2 years, but not right now.

waiting for ipv4 to run out is not the way to go.

also ipv4 has actually already run out at the top level.

the fact you are admitting about now is all that matters is to me backing up regulation is needed, a regulato telling isps they have to supply ipv6 alongside ipv4 they would all suddenly make a solution within weeks.

Sorry Chrysalis but you have not yet provided a reason as to why everyone needs IPv6 right now other than believing the news hype that IPv4 is contributing to global warming, starvation and atmospheric pollution. If it was that important to you you would have left Zen and moved to an ISP that did support IPv6. Regulator or not, no ISP would be implementing something from start to finish in weeks, it would be a recipe for disaster, and you would be the first one complaining when your routing is all cocked up due to IPv6 being implemented incorrectly.

Leave it to the ISPs, almost all of them will have done a CBA and ROI calculation on implementing IPv6 and the fact that most of them don't support it shows that it isn't sensible for them to implement it right now. Whether it has run out at top level or not is immaterial and it is not something the home user needs to be concerned about.

Even if Zen switched it on tomorrow my 2820 does not support it and I'd need to purchase a new Draytek router - circa £150. I am not in any hurry to do this. Neither are many small businesses i assure you when their existing setup is working fine.

I am just guessing here but the main reason they might not be supporting it is likely some of their core broadband service routers do not support it - big money to replace, and actually, let's say hypothetically a new model is coming out next year which has amazing features, why would they bother to upgrade now just to support IPv6 when they could wait a couple of months and get the brand new state of the art system. It is a shame Zen aren't a bit more open on what equipment they use like PIPEX and Nildram used to be (and some smaller ones like AAISP still are), for example it says on their network page they still use Redback products - one would hope they have moved on from the SMS-10000.

Edited by Pipexer (Sat 07-Dec-13 15:07:51)

I have provided a reason, you just dont agree with it.

I keep saying ROI shouldnt be a factor on IPV6, its for the good of the internet. For this reason it should be regulated in.

Edited by Chrysalis (Sat 07-Dec-13 15:42:11)

why the panic about IPv6 ??

This technology has been around since 1998, and when i worked for a large mobile telco back in 2000, we looked to implement new products with IPv6 enabled, but scrapped the idea,due to lack of interest / and IPV4 still available

In my view the IPV6 implementation will be down to ROI, like the replacement of Telnet with SSH (although there are many other examples (hacking attacks cost money credentials in the clear are an easy target)). When there is a risk to profits IPV6 will come in, but it wont be in weeks. It will be over years with the large hosting providers running dual stacks (like Google) , and when these type of providers state that IPV4 will be turned off in x years then the push will really come, Until then not much will happen, and the constant back ground noise, we are going to run out of IPV4 addresses or wehave run out of IPV4 will to some extend be ignored. Yes i know there is a limit , but its amazing what proxies and NATting will do.

Take a look at google's own data
http://www.google.com/ipv6/statistics.html
Just over 2.5% of users access google using IPv6

you got it the wrong way round.

google arent going to denounce ipv4 until ipv6 is widespread in homes, thats if ever. google are already dual stack, so they have already moved first, you think google changed to ipv6 for business reasons? note microsoft, google, facebook etc. changed on the same day for a reason.

if thats what the likes of zen are waiting for then they be waiting forever. You are basically saying its cool to wait until they are forced to do it by a ipv4 turnoff.

according to google data ipv6 adoption is averaging 5% in france, germany, canada, states and then the uk is 0.21%

Edited by Chrysalis (Sat 07-Dec-13 19:04:23)

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

if thats what the likes of zen are waiting for then they be waiting forever. You are basically saying its cool to wait until they are forced to do it by a ipv4 turnoff.

No I don't think we're saying that at all. We are saying there needs to be a clear business case before an ISP moves to IPv6.... and remember, this cost may get passed onto you as the customer too.. I have zero need for IPv6 at the moment, the fact my connection is lacking IPv6 is affecting the way I go about using the internet pretty much 0%. Therefore why would I be bothered about it as a customer?

I remember someone asking whether PIPEX did IPv6 back in 2005..... 8 years down the line we are still coping on IPv4.

There are still many years left for an ISP like Zen to implement IPv6 without going into panic mode, they probably have loads of IP addresses left.

Google and Microsoft absolutely moved to IPv6 for business reasons: 1) They need to be at the forefront - looks good on PR. 2) Their own internal networks probably pushing boundaries of IPv4 3) They were running out of public IPv4 4) They are utilizing IPv6 technologies for their data centres and services etc.

These issues don't necessarily affect home and small business users as much, or even at all.

google and microsoft are not running out of ipv4.

they didnt move to ipv6 because they had to.

they did it for the sake of the internet.

none of their sites are ipv6 only, they have enough ipv4.

also the americans I believe have had some kind of push from the government for ipv6 adoption, I believe all us .gov sites are dual stacked.

http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/us-govern...

it does seem a old british trademark to use old things until they break, no forward planning.

Edited by Chrysalis (Sat 07-Dec-13 20:01:59)