BT Openreach's mad bureaucracy

I have just been converted by Zen to their 100GB fibre broadband and full marks to Zen

Not to Openreach

On Tuesday 13th August Openreach sent a outside-contract engineer to add the so-called modem and this worked as you can see cos I am on the web. He did not check the phones with the result I have been only able to accept incomi9ng landline calls and cannot make outgoing.

BT first said I wasn't a telephone customer. I proved I was. They then said they were not responsible for mistakes made by THEIR outside engineer. I instated they were which then they accepted that. I got no further help

So I sent an e-mail to Mr Ian Livingstone, BT's Chief Executive which was seemingly read by him and he asked me to contactBT on 01522 546 365 giving the name of the person who had now had to take charge of this matter until it was reserved.

It is day eight. I still cannot make outside calls. They have admitted the fault and their liability. However they cannot even sending an Openreach engineer until BT have committed their full period which end tomorrow.

NOT EVEN THE BT CE's PERSONAL ASSISTANT CAN PROGRESS THIS BUREAUCRACY THAT HAS GONE MAD

Meanwhile, as I have told them, my wife and I are aged 84, have had strokes, I am registered deaf and cannot manage mobile phones and the two of us feel very volnerable without a functiopnal OUTGOING landline.

BT made us use a fibre modem and they have accepted the liability of commissioning it. But they won't act.....

Do other people have these difficulties when they upgrade to fast fibre

Edited by deleted (Mon 19-Aug-13 14:14:49)

It shouldn't be a difficult system as BT are normally very good at acknowledging a fault.
As BT said you are not a telephone customer that seems extremely strange... Perhaps your line rental is with BT and calls elsewhere or something?
The best thing to do is to keep it simple. Speak to BT, just explain that you can no longer make outgoing calls. There's no need to go into all the details e.g. the fibre upgrade, the engineer doing outside work, who's liable etc... All you need to be telling BT is that you cannot make outgoing calls. BT have a legal obligation to provide a voice service to you.

BT will inform you that there is a potential charge if the problem is inside your property. To avoid this ensure you have checked the landline in the master socket. This charge is only levied when a customer has done something silly such as cutting through the cable inside their house, using a broken phone, or using a faulty internal extension socket (usually fitted by a builder or themselves) etc. If the issues outside of the property or on the wiring up to the master socket BT will pay for the call out (which is the majority of the time). Clearly ISPs cannot be paying when it's the end users negligence, so these people are billed.

So to sum up. Ring whoever provides your calls, as you say BT. Explain you cannot make any outgoing calls. They will offer to send out an engineer but will advise you of a potential charge if the issue is due to your internal wiring, after this they will send out an engineer who will resolve it within a few days. All providers work like this and all providers follow these guidelines.

Most people do not have these difficulties no, it's just unfortunate.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 19-Aug-13 15:00:36)

Can you make outgoing calls with a corded handset from the hidden test socket behind the 2 parts of the faceplate of the master socket (discon the modem)?

If not, you should report it as a voice fault, without mentioning BB or the modem at all, to your landline provider. If they are BT you can even report it online: Report a fault. They are obliged to fix it.

Definitely try the test socket as suggested
Here it is http://adsl.yesyes.info/pics/Testsocket2.jpg

Don't think that's the entire socket you get with fibre. Think there's another bit like an I-Plate, the interstitial thing.

Oh of course this is fibre.

If you unscrew the two screws all the way the entire filter and fronting comes out fairly easily revealing the old style test socket.

If the OP could make and receive calls using the same equipment as they are using now chances are that it's a direct result of a botched FTTC install and the problem will most likely be at the pcp , even if it's as a result of a faulty filtered faceplate that the BTO engineer fitted as part of the install that wouldn't result in a charge by BT,

I certainly wouldn't be plugging into the test jack if my phone failed to work following a FTTC install (diagnosing the fault for them)

Had the engineer done his job and completed the task completely instead of this hit & run approach that seem to be common place these days, even with some BTOR engineers, this type of problem wouldn't be occuring

Edited by tommy45 (Mon 19-Aug-13 16:09:35)

This does not surprise me. Openreach messed up my install. BT Retail said I was confused, but with my insistence, they sent out an engineer. The engineer verified the fault, as the cable being labelled wrongly at the exchange, but he was unable to fix it himself, and said it was BT Retails problem. Around we went in that cycle three times. It took over a year to get it sorted properly.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

If the OP could make and receive calls using the same equipment

Yeah, but I'm suggesting what if they can't?

I agree. However, the OP finds himself - as do many others - in something of a Gordian Knot not of his own making. Everything worked until FTTC was installed. We know that this type of installation requires 'in' and 'out' of premises work by an OR- directed engineer. OR would appear to be the guilty party and the OP needs them to get it sorted without him having to resort to test sockets, phone fault reporting etc. Personally, I would give them another 24 hours and I would then email my MP copy to the CEO at BT. It shouldn't be necessary but, given the OP's age and circumstances, he deserves better. On the wider point, it is time that OFGEM got a grip of this nonsense. FWIW, my view is that the ISP that contracted BT to do the work on the line should be the first POC when issues such as this arise.

As David Lloyd would say ' Time to start the car'.

BT have accepred at CE Mr Ian Livingstone's level --- yes you read that aright --- that it is their fault. They engaged a contract engineer. He moved my faceplate from the master socket in the kitchen to the resited master socket in anothert room. This took 4.5 hours with two men. Then they didn't check my phone was working, rushed home at 5.15 pm and left me, aged 84, with a landline that receives incomping calls and won't make outgoing.

Whose fault is this. Whose reponsibility. Not Zens. It is BT's. Despite getting the Chief Executive of BT in receipt even he cannot get Openreach to do anything. I didn't wreck my phone, BT's tame contract engineer did. I wrote to Mr Livingstone yet again telling him that if I didn't have a complete resolution by 4pm Tuesday there will be a letter in that night's post to my MP Dr Julian Lewis.

In reply to a post by Littleseen:

Whose fault is this. Whose reponsibility. Not Zens. It is BT's. Despite getting the Chief Executive of BT in receipt even he cannot get Openreach to do anything. I didn't wreck my phone, BT's tame contract engineer did. I wrote to Mr Livingstone yet again telling him that if I didn't have a complete resolution by 4pm Tuesday there will be a letter in that night's post to my MP Dr Julian Lewis.

The reason that I say that the ISP should be the POC is because you, the customer, contracted with them to do the work. The ISP, in turn, contracted with BT Wholesale who happen to use OR to install FTTC. You shouldn't have to complain to BT: my view is that the ISP should do it on your behalf as they have all the order details etc. Clearly, if Zen was both your BB and telephone provider then this simplifies issues but that really should not have to be the case.

I hope that the problem is resolved for you very soon

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

If the OP could make and receive calls using the same equipment

Yeah, but I'm suggesting what if they can't?

Then who ever did the install botched it, and not the op's equipment at fault,Meaning why bother trying to find out what is at fault ? Just report it as a fault as for possible charges, very unlikely if ever there where you could still dispute such charges

Problem is with stuff like this is and ISP who is providing xDSL is only responsible for that part of it,

They unless are your voice provider cannot report a voice fault using their own systems, From what the OP has said their was no issues with the FTTC service ,
so the isp couldn't report a XDSL fault,
They could make a complaint to openreach regarding the sub contracted Botched install ,but would probably fall on deaf ears

I remember when i switched ISP ADSL So just re jumpering required at exchange, Which left me without a working line (ADSL & PHONE) as the clown who carried out the work, had disconnected my line and connected a dead pair instead because the BT mapping database hadn't been updated for my line following a change of both E & D side pairs some 1-2yrs prior,

My new isp didn't want to know, infact they told me that my line was in sync,lol all they could say is report it as a fault to your voice provider
Which i did and it took around 7days before it got fixed, another occasion was due to cable engineers installing the new cables between the PCP & FTTC cab One leg of the D side pair became detached resulting in double attenuation and reduced sync along with a SNR of 0.5-1db (normally 3db) and a dead voice service,
Again i rang my voice provider and reported a fault, and also refused to acknowledge or accept the potential changes that bt may or may not make

Edited by tommy45 (Mon 19-Aug-13 18:01:38)

Hence the sequence at http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/

Have you registered yourself and your wife as "priority users"?

If your voice line rental is with BT information about their priority service can be found here

http://www.bt.com/includingyou/assets/downloads/Free...

If you haven't already done so I would urge you to register yourselves with all your utility companies as well as the council also Sky/Virgin if you have those.

I would say anybody who is elderly or disabled should get registered with these schemes as soon as they can.

Openreach came in this morning and in less than 5 mins made good a loose phone lead in the new mastersocket. My BT landline is now perfect. And he checked all 5 phone lines worked properly. Job done. And no question that I would have to pay, they recognise it was the fault of the contract-engineer. I feel I can now close this thread and thankyou all for your support.