Nearly 6 months to get a phone line - still waiting!

I moved house back in May and ordered a phone and fibre package from Zen. We're nearly into October and I still don't even have a phone line. There has been total incompetence from Zen, Openreach, and, to some degree the local contractor, at every single stage.

Up until today, I was fully prepared to believe none of this was Zen's fault. However, the local contractor actually called me directly this afternoon to ask if I still wanted an engineer to visit today (that would be my FIFTH wasted engineer visit) and the full story behind this fiasco came out.

The local contractor has consistently received incomplete, inaccurate, and often no briefing at all on the necessary work to install the line. What's more, they said they were now furious that so much of their engineers' time had been wasted on such a poorly managed project. One, they say, that should have been so simple: survey, cable/duct work, install.

Clearly there are big communication problems somewhere in the chain and the contractor is claiming this hasn't been managed at all properly from the start.

I again complained to Zen today that I am still without a phone line and there is still confusion about whether the contractor should send an engineer, or whether a second Openreach survey is needed, and, if one is needed, exactly when this will take place. I still don't have an install date or even the possibility of an install date. The situation is utter madness. Quite how/why Zen have let this to drag on for so long is beyond me, but it's absolutely disgraceful.

In my complaint, I again reminded Zen that I have been without a phone or broadband since May and have so far booked 4 days off work for wasted engineer visits. I politely said that I'd like to discuss appropriate compensation for the grief they have put me through and the days of work I have lost. Disappointingly -- and not entirely unexpectedly given my experience so far -- they wouldn't consider compensation or taking my complaint any further. In fact, what I got from them was a bland and selective take on previous 5 month's events. They conveniently ignored all the details of delays, mistakes, poor planning, communication failures, lack of any project management, and repeated failures of action at all stages of this install.

I think I'm well within my rights to expect my complaint to be adequately dealt with, compensation or not. I am now awaiting a deadlock letter from Zen and then I'm preparing my complaint to Ofcom.

I've had some really bad service over the years, but Zen have really turned a formerly happy customer very much against them. Whenever I've had issues with other companies I've always felt that my complaints were heard, understood, and properly escalated to someone who would take ownership of it until resolved. That seems to be totally missing from Zen's customer services.

Edited by deleted (Mon 23-Sep-13 21:44:27)

Contractor is irrelevant they are openreach staff or working on their behalf. Only time i can envisage otherwise is where its a new build and openreach is waiting on builder to complete their end of things.

Has Zen escalated this with openreach?

In reply to a post by Deak:

I am now awaiting a deadlock letter from Zen and then I'm preparing my complaint to Ofcom.

It's not Ofcom you take it to; they don't deal with individual complaints.

After the deadlock letter or, if none forthcoming, 8 weeks since complaint submitted you take it to Zen's ADR outfit who should be specified in Zen's Complaint Code.

Morning Deak,

Could you please PM your fault/order details and I'll have this chased for you.

Kindest Regards,

Hi,

I can see on your account that my colleague Jamie is looking after this for you and has escalated this with BT, if you need anything further please let me know.

Just. Wow. This goes from bad to worse, here's an update:

This is STILL ongoing and is now the worst service I have ever received from any company. Zen's customer service team have repeatedly fobbed me off, ignored me, and failed to take my formal complaints any further. There is no escalation and no-one takes any ownership of my problems. Nothing is properly managed or tracked and no-one is proactive in helping me. Throughout this 6 month wait for a simple phone line and broadband I have been endlessly patient, reasonable, and polite. Now I'm stuck paying them for incomplete services and a totally screwed up phone line with no resolution in sight.

Here's where I'm at:

Finally -- after 5+ months! -- I have a "working" phone line. Sadly Zen lost my broadband order, which I had to place again. Annoying, but not unexpected given I placed it nearly half a year ago.

Unfortunately, despite Zen happily taking money for the first month and installation of broadband I have now received an email about my ADSL order saying that my phone number "could not be recognised". The very number that Zen provided me with and are charging me for.

Despair doesn't even cover my feelings right now.

To say that I'm angry is a massive understatement. I was in fact still angry that my enquiries about compensation for all the delays, wasted days off work, and grief I've been through have been repeatedly forgotten or ignored. Zen have also ignored my (two) requests for ADR or a deadlock letter. Things are not properly escalated or monitored by their customer service team and just get forgotten.

If anyone has any ideas about how to move this forward I'd love some advice. I just want a phone line and ADSL... this should not be difficult! Also, if anyone has any experience of what my next steps should be if my formal complaints are being repeatedly ignored I'd like to hear your thoughts too. I'm fed up of being treated like [censored] by Zen.

There's really not a lot anyone reading outside Zen can say. Clearly communication is an issue somewhere in the Zen <-> BT Wholesale <-> BT Openreach <-> Openreach's contractor chain, but it's unclear how it all unravels and where any blame may lie.

Hopefully, you can get things up and running with Zen (I guess the issue with the ADSL is that the number is not yet in the relevant BT databases), as abandoning the ADSL activation now will probably just lead to further delays. Beyond that, you will have to see what Zen can sort out and form an opinion on whether to port away from Zen after a month. I'm pretty sure both phone line rental and ADSL have a one month minimum, and expect Zen would be amenable to letting you migrate to another provider immediately if you wish.

I wish you well.

In reply to a post by Deak:

Zen have also ignored my (two) requests for ADR or a deadlock letter.

You can just look it up yourself:

In reference to www.zen.co.uk/policies.aspx?page=10675:

If your complaint is not settled within 8 weeks, you can take your complaint to CISAS without the need for a deadlock letter.

You will need to contact CISAS directly as we are unable to start this process for you:

CISAS
International Dispute Resolution Centre
70 Fleet Street
London
EC4Y 1EU

Telephone: 020 7520 3814
Fax: 020 7520 3829
Email: [email protected]

Thanks for the link. CIAS it is, then.

I had a long chat with the engineer when he turned up. He was in fact the first engineer who'd turned up nearly 6 months ago.

He said when he picked up the job in the morning it took 15 minutes to read through all of the notes and endless back-and-forth, which read badly for everyone involved. From his perspective as a contractor he thought the blame was equal parts Zen and Openreach. Communication definitely seemed to be an issue along with poor escalation -- basically once the job was identified as more complex, someone more technical and senior on both sides should have taken proper ownership of it to get it done. Instead it bounced back-and-forth with no progress, misunderstandings, and outright mistakes.

Are you sure you formally complained, according to their Complaint's Proceedure? Cuz you should've been sent this info during it.

In my law of obligations (contract law and torts such as negligence) tutorials at university, it was always stressed that there's a difference between rights and outcomes, also that it may not be necessary to rake over all that happened in the past to resolve the issue. Contractual disputes revolve around the breach(es) of contract, the effects of any breach, and the remedies rightly flowing from the breach of contract.

You have every right to complain to CISAS, assuming, as XRaySpex rightly points out, that you made a formal complaint to Zen at least eight weeks ago. Whichever route you take, though, I'd urge to keep the resolution you want foremost in your mind, and work towards achieving that.

Taking this matter beyond Zen is your right - but it may slow down any resolution. Putting a proposal to Zen about what you want to happen with the phone line and with the broadband order may be the quickest was to bring this to an end, as Zen will be clear what you want now.


It sounds like there is an opportunity to learn lessons, but especially with a situation dragging on over many months with the complex chain of contractual relationships that lie behind this situation, any dispute resolution process will not be interested in raking over all that happened, seeking to apportion blame. Your rights are determined by your contract(s) with Zen, and your remedies relate solely to whether Zen breached those contract(s).

If Zen wish to rely on any exclusion clauses relating to unavoidable situations with their contractors, it is up to Zen to show, on the balance of probabilities, that the exclusion applies. There are also various overriding contractual provisions that may apply, both common law and statutory. In particular, you may wish to review Zen's terms and conditions alongside the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, especially sections 13 and 14.


In your position, I'd try to get Zen to nominate a senior person to deal with this matter, then put my requests to that person in the light of the history. You cannot reverse the past, but you can hope for the speediest possible transition to the position you now want.

In reply to a post by Deak:

Unfortunately, despite Zen happily taking money for the first month and installation of broadband I have now received an email about my ADSL order saying that my phone number "could not be recognised". The very number that Zen provided me with and are charging me for.

On the face of it, I've seen this issue before [not with Zen] - the issue for us was that the BT system still had the line number in the system ("a system") from it's previous use, and the result was that it was such that one part of the BT system figured the line was "good to go" and another thought it was ceased or something similar so refused to acknowledge it.

We filed an issue with BT who 48 hours later, fixed the glitch and the order was resubmitted.

Zen are responsible and i'm amazed they've not made more effort to monitor this one - I'd certainly tell them to stick it.