Move to Zen Fibre Unlimited how reliable are Zen?

I've been with IDNet for 9 or 10 years now and they have served me well in that time. However due to the need for more bandwidth it's looking like they can no longer provide what I need for a price thats not too steep.

I know you get what you pay for which is why I'm looking to Zen, I've seen them compared to IDNET numerous times over the years and it seems the two companies have similar principles when it comes to quality of service and customer service.

To the point then, due to other family members now aquiring tablets and discovering the joys of youtube streaming and such, my usage of Netflix and downloading large game files from the Playstation Network I'm finding the 100GB cap per month a bit of a squeeze and at £1GB for extra usage, that could be one large bill.

For roughly the same price as upgrading to IDNETs fibre offering, 78meg 100GB usage I see Zen offer an unlimited product, which would bring me peace of mind and give me more for the virutally same money from an ISP with what looks like a solid reputation,

So are Zen are good as I think they are? Recommed moving to Zen from ID? Its not all about price obviously, talktalk, bt, plusnet etc don't get a look in with me, regardless of how cheap they are.

Sorry if I banged on a bit and thanks for any advice

Plusnet is offering Unlimited Fibre Extra for just £19.99 if u bring the phone over with them. But, they now offering discount with first 9 months of £12.50 then there after at £19.99 for the remaining of 9 months with 18 months contract.

I have been with Zen for a 10ish years and never had a problem, there support is very good. There has been no more then 1 or 2 Major outages in all that time. More BT tail related ones but no provider and account for the madness that is BT.

I've been with Zen for about 14 years. I have recently (days) had the Fibre 2 Unlimited fitted for exactly your reasons, with Netflix taken it was running us up to 200gb and that was half way through the month! So Fibre being unlimited was good.

Zen is not the cheapest option but every time I have had to speak to them, things have been resolved and I've been happy. I wouldn't entertain talktalk or BT and I am dubious about BT owning PlusNet.

Another consideration that made it best for me was the inconvenience of changing providers. You can measure how good the ISP is by these forums, I've never seen many complaints in here.

Give them a ring? See how you feel then. It's your money and it is a 12 month contract.

Edited by deleted (Fri 25-Jul-14 23:31:30)

Go for Zen. You can leave after 12 months. You are not required to use their phone service but will have to pay a bit more for the broadband. English speaking staff who try hard to keep their customers happy.

It is true that there are bargain basement broadband deals around and many would say you would be mad not to save more than a few quid against premium price suppliers. I've been brought up viewing free lunches with suspicion so the best ever deal from BT and introductory offers from PlusNet just don't cut it for me. Maybe the men in white coats will be coming my way soon.

I didn't take the phone line - it adds a few pounds to the bill each month if you don't though. But it is a 12 month contract instead of 18. I also think the 'surcharge' may be removed if I renew a contract next year.

I was with IDNet for 5 years including a year on FTTC. I confess that I got fed up with the frequent e-mail outages, limited support hours and poor communication with customers so I moved to Zen nearly two years ago. I have never had an issue with speeds - even during periods of high demand such as the Olympics and World Cup. E- mail is a constant. I had a major issue with my connection in March when my line would not authenticate properly (CHAPS authentication failure). Once we had got passed the usual 'have you tested this and that etc' an engineer took the bull by the horns and arranged for a lift and shift. This achieved nothing. There were then high- level discussions between ZEn, BTOR and BTW which resulted in BTW carrying out a radius server re-build ( cease and re-provide).

All ISPs have their downsides. Zen does not offer IPv6 or IMAP e-mail.

Will I be moving on soon? No - I think that Zen offers a first-class BB service which IMHO exceeds that offered by IDNet. I have their 80/20 Unlimitecd Service but, as yet, have not exceeded my old limit. It is though a few pence cheaper than it was a year ago.

Was with Zen years ago when on ADSL 20CN. They were excellent then.

Re-joined them a couple of months ago with FTTC. Nothing has changed; just as excellent.

Service just works, is fast and reliable. No disappointments here.

In reply to a post by Assegai:

I've been with IDNet for 9 or 10 years now and they have served me well in that time. However due to the need for more bandwidth it's looking like they can no longer provide what I need for a price thats not too steep.

I know you get what you pay for which is why I'm looking to Zen, I've seen them compared to IDNET numerous times over the years and it seems the two companies have similar principles when it comes to quality of service and customer service.

I moved from IDNet to Zen almost a year ago for exactly that reason. I was fed up with continually monitoring my usage to make sure I didn't cross over the 100GB limit.

The move to Zen took place without any trouble, and I am very happy to be back in the Zen fold again. Yes, they are expensive, they don't have ipv6 (although they have been "promising" it for 8 years) and they don't support imap mail, but they have an excellent tech support, and don't read from scripts when you have a problem. Also, they don't have traffic shaping

Give them a ring...

Edited by ukwiz (Sat 26-Jul-14 09:57:13)

I know Zen are far too expensive in my view but there is nothing wrong with Plusnet unlimited fibre extra (up to 76Mbps down and up to 19Mbps up) and it cheaper than Zen because how often u need tech support in the next 12 months / 18 months? So, Zen overpricing and better service is about the same as Plusnet. So, I am glad I got cheaper broadband with Plusnet. End of.

Thank you very much for all the replies folks taking all that was said into consderation on top of my own reasearch I should hopefully be ordering a fibre installation in the next few weeks with Zen.

Plusnet is a bit too cheap I just don't trust it, they may be good for some but its not for me, I don't know how far into Plusnets operations the BT claw goes but knowing they own them is enough.

Im thinking of switch to Zen FTTC from Sky FTTC, Two question i got is;

1)
Dos Zen Internet cache there YouTube and Vimeo video like what Sky dos? example (host236-rangeA-google-ggc.cdn.bllon.isp.sky.com) and Virgin Media do?

2)
Dos Zen Internet have a openreach VDSL2 modem rather then having a "all in one router"

Thanks

Edited by francisuk25 (Wed 30-Jul-14 07:16:16)

In reply to a post by francisuk25:

1)
Dos Zen Internet cache there YouTube and Vimeo video like what Sky dos? example (host236-rangeA-google-ggc.cdn.bllon.isp.sky.com) and Virgin Media do?

They do have a CDN listed on their network map: http://www.zen.co.uk/about-us/our-network
I believe its Akamai, who I don't think cache youtube. No idea about who/if anyone caches Vimeo.

I'm unsure why this would be relevant for your ISP selection though, as it would only offer you a marginally better hit time if the content you want is there, or possibly a marginally worse if the content is not there. A lot quicker than you will be able to notice.

In reply to a post by francisuk25:

2)
Dos Zen Internet have a openreach VDSL2 modem rather then having a "all in one router"

I'm unsure that anyone provides an "all in one router" yet. As far as I'm aware Openreach stipulate that you must use their FTTC Modem with their service.

Of course if you do want an "all in one router", and as Zen is a BYO router ISP, there is nothing stopping you purchasing one and removing the Openreach modem from the equation.

II left Zen only because of BT DLM on ADSL but came back after hitting a speed issue that the company I had moved to on an LLU connection couldn't resolve even after three Openreach visits.

The migration back to Zen wasn't smooth as Openreach botched the connection move and managed to take out line completely.

One call to Zen and it was fixed next day and one of my relatives who had stayed in so I didn't have to take another day off work told me an apologetic Openreach engineer plus Manager turned up to check all was now well after correcting the problem at the exchange, Zen also called me that evening to check everything was working satisfactorily.

Now on one of Zen's LLU connections and got the speed back I had prior to the problems.


Yes they aren't the cheapest but it's the support and infrastructure you pay for and in my experience they are the best I've ever used and wouldn't go elsewhere now so yes, join.

When the prices for Fibre to the Premises (only thing I can get here but is more expensive than FTTC) come down there is no question I'll be going with Zen for this.

"I know Zen are far too expensive in my view but there is nothing wrong with Plusnet unlimited fibre extra (up to 76Mbps down and up to 19Mbps up) and it cheaper than Zen because how often u need tech support in the next 12 months / 18 months? So, Zen overpricing and better service is about the same as Plusnet. So, I am glad I got cheaper broadband with Plusnet. End of."

Everyone takes their chances, if like me you need the interwebby (i.e. work, not pictures of cats), and downtime = paintime, the support matters a lot more than the cost (within reason).

Pleased you are happy on Plusnet, but the original poster is talking quality

In reply to a post by francisuk25:

I believe its Akamai, who I don't think cache youtube. No idea about who/if anyone caches Vimeo.

I'm unsure why this would be relevant for your ISP selection though, as it would only offer you a marginally better hit time if the content you want is there, or possibly a marginally worse if the content is not there. A lot quicker than you will be able to notice.

More due to Sky saving peering links to USA

In reply to a post by francisuk25:

I'm unsure that anyone provides an "all in one router" yet. As far as I'm aware Openreach stipulate that you must use their FTTC Modem with their service.

Of course if you do want an "all in one router", and as Zen is a BYO router ISP, there is nothing stopping you purchasing one and removing the Openreach modem from the equation.

What i mean by this is, For example BT use a all in one VDSL2/WiFI combo etc and so Sky has followed on, But i was double checking that Zen has a openreach VDSL2 modem and then putting on a via PPPoE with DD-WRT/MikroTik RouterOS to use.

Thanks for all the info you providing me

In reply to a post by dmcclymont:

Everyone takes their chances, if like me you need the interwebby (i.e. work, not pictures of cats), and downtime = paintime, the support matters a lot more than the cost (within reason).

Pleased you are happy on Plusnet, but the original poster is talking quality

This is exactly why i stay with Zen regardless of how many people say "oh but that's a lot of money"

There's a saying about paying peanuts...

In reply to a post by paulcdb:

This is exactly why i stay with Zen regardless of how many people say "oh but that's a lot of money"

There's a saying about paying peanuts...

I can understand that statement on long, copper, ADSL lines, but with FTTC, in the vast majority of cases "it just works" and the ISP has far less influence.

But when it doesn't you'd have to deal with substandard support from the cheap providers.

In reply to a post by techguy:

But when it doesn't ..........

That was my whole point. It "doesn't". I would love to see the numbers of ISP queries regarding FTTC versus ADSL.

Horses for courses and everyone's mileage may vary but as an escapee from two very bad ISPs (one of which cost me 130 odd quid to leave) I would personally rather pay a little more for an ISP who builds its services around the needs of the business user and happens to also sell to consumers rather than one that does things as cheap as it can to participate to the race to the bottom.

In reply to a post by Stevenage_Neil:

I can understand that statement on long, copper, ADSL lines, but with FTTC, in the vast majority of cases "it just works" and the ISP has far less influence.

ADSL / FTTC etc... only connect you to the ISP's network, its then when the quality of there network becomes important.
How do they connect you to there peering points and what's the contention on these transit connections.
What peering do they have and again what the contention.

Also very important, what they put in between there transit and the peering. Traffic Shaping, Filtering, DPI, etc. The secondary services they provide DNS, Mail etc.


There is more to an ISP, then cost and the availability of support.

They are only as good as BT allow them to be and god help you if you need to get to the right dept when dealing with BT switchboards. Emailed gavin patterson middle of last week after spending hours on the telephone with BT because zen say they cant get an answer as to the cause of a voiceline fault/fiber speeds dropping to less than half, i've yet to receive a reply from mr patterson i'm sure he is a very busy man. Have found multiple contact details for other board members so it might be time to try emailing a few of them.


Zen if they wont give you an answer to why i didnt have a working telephone for 2 days and why a bt engineer cleared down the voice fault at 8.20pm on the 15th by visiting the cab! why the hell was there a BT guy even working that late unless it was to cover up some cockup? why not ask BT openreach what caused my connection to drop out and sync speeds to drop at 5.08pm on the 13th when there was a openreach primate connecting a neighbours fiber and why it still hasnt been fixed to the standard it was previous? i am royally losing my patience with both companies. i probably shouldn't with zen because they haven't closed down the ticket yet.

One of the things that makes a good isp is what they do and the questions they ask of BT when things go wrong, how far they are willing to push BT for answers and fixes.

These are exaclty the same problems we had back in January and resolved after weeks on the phone with zen - BT openreach "engineers" *cough* screwing over peoples connection while installing someone else's broadband and dragging their heels in rectifying a problem they caused - if the lines are so bad in this area that openreach have to steal/swap good working copper pairs isn't it about time the cabling was replaced in the pavements? the last time a bt engineer left here back in jan/feb i was told that the copper pair back to the fiber cab was perfect, he had made every joint as new and assured me he only tested and used redundant pairs, the figures he was getting at the bt openreach modem would support 130mb+ if it were possible. and i believe him we had maximum throughput and zero problems until wed the 13th of aug.

bt openreach screw over a customer because said primate wants to get home early or hit his daily target by stealing one good cable from a neighbours pair - internet still working at a reduced speed no dialling tone and phone doesn't ring but at least the neighbours fiber is working fine now eh. the [censored] was told he had caused a problem with our line while he was still working at the cab on Wednesday evening to which the reply was that we'd have to wait a week for it to be fixed. who cleared down the fault and why was it at 8.20pm on a fri evening? is it just me that thinks that an odd time for a fix to happen? was it the same engineer that was out on Wednesday the 13th or part of the same team covering for each others incompetence? start asking these questions please zen or these problems are just going to happen over and over especially as more people take up fiber. i cant get through to anyone helpfull in BT at the moment but i swear i will even if i have to hand deliver a letter to the BT HQ in London.

So to the original poster in answer as to how reliable zen are i am seriously questioning if it's worth spending the extra money per month because they are at BTs mercy anyway and don't seem to be able to sort out problems seemingly effortlessly like they did 11years ago.

Anyone who reads this and and has a contact number for Joe Garner or any high level complaints dept within openreach i'd be very grateful. The number for openreach that was given to me my a member on the zen technical team last night was to report damage to the fiber cabinet and whilst i have thought about lassoing the cab to a very large vehicle and towing it off it is just wishful thinking -at this point anyway. zen technical clowns, it did make me laugh when i heard where i was connecting to though.

Edited by deleted (Sun 24-Aug-14 17:03:29)

you wont regret it if im honest. they are without doubt one of the better internet service providers out there. even if they are limited by the faceless seemingly [censored] unmonitored farce that is BT.

Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Aug-14 20:51:12)

Well my connection finally went live 2 days ago so far all good. Was quoted the full 20000 80000 currently getting 20000 71476 so I'm not really complaining. going to see what effect rebooting the Openreach modem has on it if any. I suspect the 15 metres of extension cable the engineer installed might cut into my speed I read that every meter of extra cable has an impact.

Happy with Zen so far Shame to see instances where BT drag other companies down

if it realy matters they have ex bt employees that probably have keys to all the cabinets

opps did i jusp type that

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Sep-14 20:00:06)

In reply to a post by Assegai:

Well my connection finally went live 2 days ago so far all good. Was quoted the full 20000 80000 currently getting 20000 71476 so I'm not really complaining. going to see what effect rebooting the Openreach modem has on it if any. I suspect the 15 metres of extension cable the engineer installed might cut into my speed I read that every meter of extra cable has an impact.

Happy with Zen so far Shame to see instances where BT drag other companies down

Nice! Do you know what your SNR Margin is?

Be very careful with restarting your OR Modem too much because the FTTC DLM can be a real piece of work.

Yeah I heard the standard DSL MAX DLM was a pain in the ass so I was a tad weary. I've got 3 records on the Zen portal each time it syncs it appears to drop 2 megs the first time and 1 meg the second 71-69-68 I wonder why it connects lower, there havn't been any stability issues.

I can't access the SNR data all I can get it what the Zen line stats gives me the TP-Link router gives me no stats now modem is in play.

In reply to a post by bigbadpirate:

They are only as good as BT allow them to be and god help you if you need to get to the right dept when dealing with BT switchboards. Emailed gavin patterson middle of last week after spending hours on the telephone with BT because zen say they cant get an answer as to the cause of a voiceline fault/fiber speeds dropping to less than half, i've yet to receive a reply from mr patterson i'm sure he is a very busy man. Have found multiple contact details for other board members so it might be time to try emailing a few of them.


Zen if they wont give you an answer to why i didnt have a working telephone for 2 days and why a bt engineer cleared down the voice fault at 8.20pm on the 15th by visiting the cab! why the hell was there a BT guy even working that late unless it was to cover up some cockup? why not ask BT openreach what caused my connection to drop out and sync speeds to drop at 5.08pm on the 13th when there was a openreach primate connecting a neighbours fiber and why it still hasnt been fixed to the standard it was previous? i am royally losing my patience with both companies. i probably shouldn't with zen because they haven't closed down the ticket yet.

One of the things that makes a good isp is what they do and the questions they ask of BT when things go wrong, how far they are willing to push BT for answers and fixes.

These are exaclty the same problems we had back in January and resolved after weeks on the phone with zen - BT openreach "engineers" *cough* screwing over peoples connection while installing someone else's broadband and dragging their heels in rectifying a problem they caused - if the lines are so bad in this area that openreach have to steal/swap good working copper pairs isn't it about time the cabling was replaced in the pavements? the last time a bt engineer left here back in jan/feb i was told that the copper pair back to the fiber cab was perfect, he had made every joint as new and assured me he only tested and used redundant pairs, the figures he was getting at the bt openreach modem would support 130mb+ if it were possible. and i believe him we had maximum throughput and zero problems until wed the 13th of aug.

bt openreach screw over a customer because said primate wants to get home early or hit his daily target by stealing one good cable from a neighbours pair - internet still working at a reduced speed no dialling tone and phone doesn't ring but at least the neighbours fiber is working fine now eh. the [censored] was told he had caused a problem with our line while he was still working at the cab on Wednesday evening to which the reply was that we'd have to wait a week for it to be fixed. who cleared down the fault and why was it at 8.20pm on a fri evening? is it just me that thinks that an odd time for a fix to happen? was it the same engineer that was out on Wednesday the 13th or part of the same team covering for each others incompetence? start asking these questions please zen or these problems are just going to happen over and over especially as more people take up fiber. i cant get through to anyone helpfull in BT at the moment but i swear i will even if i have to hand deliver a letter to the BT HQ in London.

So to the original poster in answer as to how reliable zen are i am seriously questioning if it's worth spending the extra money per month because they are at BTs mercy anyway and don't seem to be able to sort out problems seemingly effortlessly like they did 11years ago.

Anyone who reads this and and has a contact number for Joe Garner or any high level complaints dept within openreach i'd be very grateful. The number for openreach that was given to me my a member on the zen technical team last night was to report damage to the fiber cabinet and whilst i have thought about lassoing the cab to a very large vehicle and towing it off it is just wishful thinking -at this point anyway. zen technical clowns, it did make me laugh when i heard where i was connecting to though.

zen closed the ticket or are very close to. useless [censored] company, not worth the paper they are written on and garner isnt much better. tang i thought you were made of sterner stuff but it seems you are like all the others. roll over further once the money starts rolling in.

i enjoyed sticking it to garner. no cheats just good old gameplay.

give me my mac code.