You need to sort our house out Zen...

Being told by customer services that you ONLY get a 589vn when you order a self install and you ONLY get a BTO Modem when you order a engineer install (which let's face it, not everyone has the faceplate - and I wasn't given the option anyway) is a bit [censored].

And also being told because I upgraded I can't get the same? Oddly enough you expect the same price and the same contract from me...

Oh look, a new customer gets the choice of an engineer install AND a tg589vn..

http://prntscr.com/7pelyy

I have to ask you though.. why is your pricing so difficult to understand? If I am just being stupid please tell me how the figures on the left can come to the amount on the right even with VAT included?

http://prntscr.com/7pem13

I am seriously considering dumping you under the 14 days the law gives me because all I am getting is stupid answers by people who sound like they don't want to be there. You are meant to be one of the best. I stress 'meant to be!" The whole customer experience is a wishy washy affair and certainly bring NO confidence in you.

And if this is how customers get treated then I don't want to be here either. My speeds are all over the place because I have no choice but to use pppoe (something the CS guy said was fine and standard for engineer installs)

Is THIS "fine and standard?"

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/926667696e6...

Edited by deleted (Mon 06-Jul-15 13:14:06)

PPPoE is the way FTTC authenticates usually, and is the same no matter whether you have an all in one modem/router or an openreach modem and different router.

Believe your ping is probably all over the place because you have suggested you are using a modem with the PPPoE session running on a Mac, which of course will not be designed to give priority to ICMP echo given all the other stuff its CPU has to do.

Time to say which providers you've had before, so people don't recommend the wrong ones next time.

sorry

ive been with talk talk and was with Zen for adsl before i moved to fibre which was 3 days ago.

its just being told go out and buy your own got my back up all because i got a different way to get fibre than someone else

Weren't you with Plusnet when you worked for them?

So if customer service is your complaint then try AAISP

Will still be PPPoE authentication and the same for all the providers apart from Sky that use MER

no. i was with talktalk

I asked my grandson he has shown me which one i should get so i will go and get one now.

it's not the method that [censored] me off it was the speeds slowing right down and the disconnects but s you say that would have been the pppoe direct connection which i will replace

In reply to a post by ZenUserJP:

I am seriously considering dumping you under the 14 days the law gives me because all I am getting is stupid answers by people who sound like they don't want to be there. You are meant to be one of the best. I stress 'meant to be!" The whole customer experience is a wishy washy affair and certainly bring NO confidence in you.

I believe it is 14 days from placing the order, not 14 days from activation - I looked into this briefly as I'd like to cancel Zen, due to problems and unsatisfactory responses, was activated about 10 days ago.

In reply to a post by ZenUserJP:

I have to ask you though.. why is your pricing so difficult to understand? If I am just being stupid please tell me how the figures on the left can come to the amount on the right even with VAT included?

From month 2

Broadband = £25/month + VAT (£30)
Line Rental = £14.16/month + VAT (£16.99)

Total monthly bill therefore £39.16 + VAT (£46.99)

First month's bill:

Activation £25 + VAT
Modem P&P £5.79 + VAT
First month's service £39.16 + VAT

Total £69.95 + VAT (£83.94)

Sorry I didn't see the bit where it say activation on that screen, I must be blind.

Personally I think you'll be better off buying your own kit as Technicolor routers are designed to be supplied as Customer Premises Equipment (CPE) by ISPs and so you'll find documentation and updated firmware is non existent if you look at Technicolor's own site.

This isn't an issue if you stay with the supplying ISP as the router will have firmware update server details 'baked in' but can cause issues if you should choose to go elsewhere.

That isn't a dig at any ISP it's simply what Technicolor do.

Thanks. I have borrowed a router and my line is now like this..

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/926667696e6...

I have not used it today though. i will see how I go.

my dig is that why should I have to pay for a router someone new gets free when I did an upgrade and committed to the same contract. TalkTalk used to match their offers if you took a new contract so clearly they are better than Zen and I should return when I am done here is the conclusion I have drawn.

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Jul-15 09:59:58)

I enquired about a free router upon my downgrade from UF2 to UF1. Because I already had a modem (provided by Openreach) and because it wasn't a new install, they refused to offer the free modem, even though, as you say, I was effectively contracting myself in for another 12 months, just like someone new would be doing.

In all honesty, I didn't need the free router, but it would have been nice as a backup. I guess they are trying to save the pennies, but I find that excuse questionable as their prices are above average compared to everyone else anyway.

In reply to a post by mixt:

In all honesty, I didn't need the free router, but it would have been nice as a backup. I guess they are trying to save the pennies, but I find that excuse questionable as their prices are above average compared to everyone else anyway.

I am happy to pay more because I know that Zen invest in their own infrastructure, although I'll grant that this can sometimes not provide superior performance if they are dealing with performance issues.

I was with various 'good' ISPs in the past, including Demon, Eclipse and Entanet and every single one of them went downhill over time. I don't expect Zen to do that and so far I have seen very little evidence of any trouble with the exception of one day of increased latency during preparation for upgrade work.

I buy my own routers and modems because I know that ISPs are supplying to a price rather than to a performance level. That cost applies to every ISP I use so it isn't an argument against Zen.

Well I consider mine to be a new install. ok so i only needed a faceplate so maybe thats why they think i should have to fork out £60 and buy one.

Yes £46,99 a month is not cheap at all yet many many give you free stuff for cheaper. I appreciate they are a fairly small ISP and yes I also agree that I should have and did pay for the activation but to then tell me that the engineer install costs them a lot is a big out of order - their prices with open reach are neither my concern or problem.

I will return to my old ISP as soon as possible. They didnt treat their customers this way (okay so it was only LLU but is that even a relevant point?)

Quoting from your previous post on this thread:

ive been with talk talk and was with Zen for adsl before i moved to fibre which was 3 days ago.

So this is a new FTTC install. You didn't have FTTC before this, right? So you need a VDSL modem. Be that a BT Openreach one or the combo Technicolor modem+router they are supposed to offer for new installs.

I would call them up about it again as that appears to be totally out of order. This is not a migration from another ISP, where you were on FTTC previously. This is not a package re-grade (like my re-grade from UF2 to UF1 was). This is a new install of FTTC.

yes this was a new install to FTTC I was with Zen on ADSL before this using just a basic ADSL modem/router. Standard phone socket here too no FTTC faceplate All I have now is the HG612.

I have tried - the guy who I spoke to told me this is the way it goes.

Time to leave for another ISP then. They haven't fulfilled the terms of their contract, as advertised on their site, so the 12 month minimum term doesn't apply to you any more.

I am disappointed, but, strangely enough, this kind of attitude comes at no surprise. I've spent the last month and a half chasing them for a 24p (yes, £0.24) credit due on my account because their billing system doesn't take into a account the pro-rata adjustment that is required if you re-grade mid-way through a billing period. I only just got their billing department to admit they are wrong on my 3rd email to them, a week or so ago. They remained blatantly dismissive up until this point.

I hope this is not a sign of things to come.

They charged me £2.26 when I had the upgrade.

Thanks I will sign up elsewhere as (luckily) I don't need a migration code now?

As I said I am having to use pppoe into my mac to get a connection..

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Jul-15 11:57:30)

In reply to a post by ZenUserJP:

They charged me £2.26 when I had the upgrade.

No idea what that is for, unless they are doing a pro rata calculation for moving from ADSL to FTTC mid-way through your billing period.

Yes, this can be seen to be an upgrade, but it is actually a new install. It is a new install of FTTC, which is an upgrade moving you from ADSL to FTTC. So you should be provisioned with a VDSL modem/router.

I doubt they will give you a migration code because their systems now say you are in contract for 12 months, plus the migration process has recently changed (I don't think you even need a MAC now). You could give them notice that you find their decision to not provide you with a free VDSL modem/router unacceptable and if they fail to provide you with one within X days, per the contract you have entered into them with (point them to what is written on their very own site), then you deem the contract to be void and will take appropriate action to move away.

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Jul-15 12:22:45)

In reply to a post by mixt:

I doubt they will give you a migration code because their systems now say you are in contract for 12 months, plus the migration process has recently changed (I don't think you even need a MAC now).

Correct. MACs don't exist any more. A move is triggered simply by ordering from your chosen new ISP.

There's nothing to stop the OP leaving, but whether or not Zen will just release them from the 12-month contract is a very different question. They may require it to be paid off.

Costs of just walking will be laid out in the notification letter and it won't be cheap.

Essentially poster needs to enter into dispute.

Though not sure why I would not recommend the Technicolor hardware these days anyway

Thanks for your reply both of you.

After recommendation from a friend I have ordered a BIllion router which I believe will serve it's purpose.

However I am sure you will agree that installing FTTC and leaving someone with just the BTO Modem really isn't acceptable unless someone has equipment to connect to it.

In reply to a post by ZenUserJP:

Thanks for your reply both of you.

After recommendation from a friend I have ordered a BIllion router which I believe will serve it's purpose.

However I am sure you will agree that installing FTTC and leaving someone with just the BTO Modem really isn't acceptable unless someone has equipment to connect to it.

I think something has gone awry in the last few months, I ordered in mid-February 2015 and requested a regrade to Fibre 2 Unlimited. This automatically arranged an OR engineer install when a VDSL faceplate and data extension kit were fitted and the ECI modem installed, leaving me to connect an ethernet cable to it and reconfigure my Draytek 2830 for WAN2 (ethernet) and disable WAN1 (ADSL2+).

I rate Zen for their network and backhaul, not for their web site and ease of interpreting their offers. That aspect could do with improvement.

I can only presume that ZenUserJP's issue is because of this:

http://www.revk.uk/2014/10/bt-losing-plot-on-fttc.html

So as I understand things, BT now provision FTTC without supplying any VDSL modem/router - effectively, providing "wires only" support (much like ADSL).

Ok, so if that is the case, Zen is now the issue. They say on their website that a FREE router will be offered for new FTTC connections/contracts. ZenUserJP's is a new FTTC connection. What part of that is unclear? It's an upgrade from his existing ADSL service, yes, but it is really a brand new FTTC connection.

Zen are in the wrong for not offering him a FREE router thus contradicting what their own website says, in my opinion.

In reply to a post by ZenUserJP:

However I am sure you will agree that installing FTTC and leaving someone with just the BTO Modem really isn't acceptable unless someone has equipment to connect to it.

It seems quite clear to me that the TG is available if you ask for it at order time (and pay for the delivery)
If you do not then you will get a standard OpenReach VDSL modem.

I think this is a good thing as a lot of people willing to pay the extra for Zen will want to set up there own "router" and may want there own modem to so have no interested in the "Free" one.

As ZenUserJP has been suspended from the forum I suspect you won't get a reply...

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/t/4419244-r...

=)

Wow. That escalated faster than Graham's Number: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txajrEOTkuY

*baffled*

In reply to a post by mixt:

I can only presume that ZenUserJP's issue is because of this:

http://www.revk.uk/2014/10/bt-losing-plot-on-fttc.html

So as I understand things, BT now provision FTTC without supplying any VDSL modem/router - effectively, providing "wires only" support (much like ADSL).

Ok, so if that is the case, Zen is now the issue. They say on their website that a FREE router will be offered for new FTTC connections/contracts. ZenUserJP's is a new FTTC connection. What part of that is unclear? It's an upgrade from his existing ADSL service, yes, but it is really a brand new FTTC connection.

Zen are in the wrong for not offering him a FREE router thus contradicting what their own website says, in my opinion.

I had a minor problem with the process using the Zen website, for some reason it wouldn't roll in my line rental together with the regrade to Fibre and make a bundled deal. Zen fixed this after I called them and asked why I would be treated differently and it seemed to be that I had exercised a path through the code that hadn't been correctly set up.

I wasn't offered the very new wires-only product, I automatically got an OR engineer install (I wanted this so that I would get an OR VDSL modem). I didn't order a router because I already had something suitable, hence I may have missed the lack of opportunity to order one because of this.

Maybe ZUJP had that happen to him, but maybe we'll never know now, he did seem rather touchy and I see he's copped a ban.

In reply to a post by mixt:

*snip* ....Zen are in the wrong for not offering him a FREE router thus contradicting what their own website says, in my opinion.

Unfortunately I don't know if this is the case or not, however I have flagged it internally just in case.

If he is correct and we basically told him, 'Tough', then yes we are definitely in the wrong and something needs to be done.

I suggest you look at the OPs first post and the images attached ..........

How does anyone get a screenshot of their order and then a TBB monitor graph of their newly upgraded connection on the same day?

IF the order shown is genuine then he was sold a contract with router and charged for delivery of said router ........

Whatever the rights or wrongs here Zen need to get a website designer on the staff.

The whole site is an unintelligible mess. I have never seen any ISP with such a dreadful website.

You only have to look at the questions posed here and at Zen by potential customers to know how confusing the website is.

To be honest I cannot say anything about the site as I work for the company. However I have fed this back and you are right I saying, that there are a lot of people who find the website, hard to navigate, hard to find information on.

You may care to feedback that one of the reasons I decided not to switch to Zen was the complete mess the website made of showing line rental prices - Different pages showed different pricing and the pdf product sheets were different again!

In reply to a post by AdrianPH:

The whole site is an unintelligible mess. I have never seen any ISP with such a dreadful website.

You only have to look at the questions posed here and at Zen by potential customers to know how confusing the website is.

Plusnet's one isn't much better. It seems that some ISPs care more for pure functionality, as they bolt on ever-increasing features, but lack web dev testers (designers fulfill a different role), who can view the site's navigation with a fresh perspective (critique is sometimes easier from outside the bubble).

Best not get me started on Plusnot ........... we wouldn't want 2 bans in one thread.

Edited by deleted (Fri 10-Jul-15 15:04:42)

In reply to a post by mixt:

I am disappointed, but, strangely enough, this kind of attitude comes at no surprise. I've spent the last month and a half chasing them for a 24p (yes, £0.24) credit due on my account because their billing system doesn't take into a account the pro-rata adjustment that is required if you re-grade mid-way through a billing period. I only just got their billing department to admit they are wrong on my 3rd email to them, a week or so ago. They remained blatantly dismissive up until this point.

We had this sort of issue with Zen when we had a load of accounts with them - billing credits never got allocated, had to repeatedly chase etc.

Actually we still have a couple of accounts with Zen for some fairly dull reasons, and every month they moan the invoice is overdue, because for reasons I don't understand, one of them still isn't credit card billed automatically as we keep asking for.

In reply to a post by AdrianPH:

The whole site is an unintelligible mess. I have never seen any ISP with such a dreadful website.

Not used the EE web site then?

Agreed and the VDSL modem router marketplace is an unreliable minefield, you may find you get what many feel you deserve if you have chosen the 8800N - Well rid of mine.

Edited by professor973 (Fri 10-Jul-15 22:59:09)

I have passed the info on, and I do believe the website is being redesigned. Do not quote me on that, as I'm still chasing details, however when I passed the information/feedback on I was told it was being looked into.

Corrections finally made to the inclusive phone usage limits for combined Fibre and Line Rental Plus.

Surprised that it took so long since Zen Web Solutions are noted as a division of Zen Internet!

At least things appear to be pointing in the right direction now.

In reply to a post by therioman:

Not used the EE web site then?

Ah, now there's an example of poor web design!