Router Problem

My cabinet has finally been upgraded for Fibre, and it's being activated this Friday. Zen have provided me with a free router (a TG589N) and I'm having an odd problem with it on my existing ADSL line.

If I ssh into my server (from an Ubuntu box via Konsole), and then do an ls, the output stops halfway through. If I push enter, then I get the rest. So here:

postgres@bbr:/tmp$ ls
events.csv fail2banclient.out gunicorn_bbn.pid gunicorn_bbr.pid gunicorn_CradleForNature.pid gunicorn_rtb.pid library.csv
events.tsv gunicorn_baydon.pid gunicorn_bb.pid gunicorn_bnb.pid gunicorn_drumcoder.pid gunicorn_wow.pid news.csv
postgres@bbr:/tmp$
postgres@bbr:/tmp$

The output stopped after gunicorn_bbr.pid the first time I tried this, and after fail2banclient.out the second time. Pressing enter always gives me the rest of the (presumably buffered) output. The same is happening with any shell output. sftp doesn't work at all - the connection is stalling and I have no way of kicking it into life with the enter key.

I've just swapped back to my old ADSL router, and everything is fine, so it's definitely something to do with the new router.

Has anyone got any suggestions as to what to tweak? Is the problem likely to go away when I get FTTC? Is the router faulty?

Many thanks,

Tim.

Hi,

The free router we support at Zen is suitable for a standard set up but not for use as you describe due to a known bug in the firmware. As this legacy firmware is not in any further development there is no fix scheduled for it to be used in this way.

If you have any concerns about other aspects of the functionality of this router, or would like to talk through in more detail, please call us on 01706 902000.

Thanks,

The Zen Team.

Thanks.

Can you define "standard set up" please? What do you perceive as non-standard, linux? ssh?

Do you have a link I can access with more details about the firmware bug?

Cheers,

Tim.

Edited by deleted (Wed 05-Aug-15 14:20:57)

I'm getting Zen fibre next week so this has caught my attention.

Where is your server located - ie is the server local and the router is just acting as a switch - or is it remote and the router is somehow buffering traffic to the Internet?

Internal servers in my local network (behind the router) are fine.

The ssh problem occurs with remote servers out in the wild west of the internet. The router is affecting traffic somehow. I also suspect it has broken my access to my work VPN, though I haven't confirmed the router as cause yet.

OK, now I'm worried. I SSH out all the time and I would not describe what I do as non "standard". In any case, it's all encapsulated inside SSL so how on earth can the router differentiate SSH from HTTPS (apart from the port).

So Zen, please elaborate on the bug so I know whether I need to buy a different router.

Might be some useful info here:

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/596671-FO...

In reply to a post by ZenInternetPR:

Hi,

The free router we support at Zen is suitable for a standard set up but not for use as you describe due to a known bug in the firmware. As this legacy firmware is not in any further development there is no fix scheduled for it to be used in this way.

Hang on... Is Zen telling us they are supplying hardware that is not fit for use in any environment where SSH or VPN connectivity is required?!?!?!

Can we have some clarification from Zen please as to what you term 'standard' setup and use ASAP.

Raises the question why are you providing shonky hardware with known bugs, and why this is not made obvious to new users?

The OP may have redress if the hardware provided is not fit for purpose - certainly you can return it at Zen's expense if nothing else!

Edited by IamQ (Wed 05-Aug-15 16:53:45)

To confirm - my work VPN does not work with the provided TG389N V3 router. It does work with my old Zyxel.

It manifests in a wierd way - I can connect to the VPN fine, but I appear to have no DNS once I'm connected. All this is on Windows 7, no Linux involved.

I'm baffled why you would continue to promote and sell a router with such a blatant flaw in its firmware. Not fit for purpose, in my opinion.

What do I need to look for in a replacement router? Will any VDSL router work?

Cheers,

Tim.

I run my own router (a Linux box) bridged to the BT VDSL modem. I've ran with this setup for years now and have never looked back, so can't really make any good suggestions on current VDSL kit. I'm sure others will comment here with that.

But you might want to take read of http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2014/12/2015-up...

(and stay clear of Thomson as I get the impression they have gone down hill in recent years, as is evident with this router bug you've encountered).

The choice is larger if you are using an Openreach VDSL2 modem, but as you said VDSL router, will presume you want an all in one device in which case

TP Link All in one modem/router for £62

At the higher end is the Asus DSL-AC68U at £140

Both devices have users around here, and am using an older Asus RT-N66U with Openreach modem every day for remote stuff.

I guess I'm going to have to change too.

I've already ordered a mikrotik router to give me the additional firewall capabilities I need so in my case I could just buy a modem. Is there any advantage going for an HG612 instead of that TP-Link router? The price is about the same.

I'm pretty disappointed with Zen though - and I'm not even connected yet.

Warranty maybe, as most HG612 seem to be on ebay or similar shops

If needing firewall capabilities of a specific device then the HG612 is the way to go, as the devices I mentioned are combined modem/routers.

The current issue being seen is the information not fully showing without a prompt (pressing enter) for the full data to be displayed when using SSH.

This seems to have been a common issue reported by a very small amount of customers in circumstances differing from set up to set. We have tested SSH and VPN's in the lab and have proved these features to work fine. We have been unable to replicate the issues above.

To set expectations we have passed this onto our supplier who has advised due to the current routers firmware not being in development anymore it is unlikely that this will be looked in to any time soon as a new firmware is currently in development.

The technicolour 589 is given as a free router and is supported on the basis of a standard set up (out of the box). Any further advanced set up, we are able to assist with as much as we can but as this is only a basic router for home use there are limitations of what the router is capable of.

If a customer has another of piece of equipment they would prefer to use you are able to set the TG589 in bridge mode and connect another router to it.

Apologies for the confusion.

Zen.

In reply to a post by ZenInternetPR:

The current issue being seen is the information not fully showing without a prompt (pressing enter) for the full data to be displayed when using SSH.

Just to check, is this problem you are describing when SSHing into the router?

Otherwise this is a pretty [censored] poor response. Especially this part.

In reply to a post by ZenInternetPR:

The technicolour 589 is given as a free router and is supported on the basis of a standard set up (out of the box). Any further advanced set up, we are able to assist with as much as we can but as this is only a basic router for home use there are limitations of what the router is capable of.

There is nothing advanced about the set up from what the OP has mentioned. He is simply trying to connect to something not on his network.

OP: have you tried factory resetting the router, and reconfiguring it from scratch?

In reply to a post by Geordish:

OP: have you tried factory resetting the router, and reconfiguring it from scratch?

No. I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere, and I'm not sure it'll help if it's a firmware bug.

There's a workaround for the SSH bug here: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/596671-FO... which involves changing a setting on the ssh client. I've not tried this - I've been trying to understand what it means (anyone got any useful links to help me?)

After some trawling I discovered a workaround. Set IPQos to cs0. Two ways to do this:

1) in /etc/ssh.ssh_config add the line "IPQos cs0"
2) on the command-line, eg. scp -o IPQos=cs0

To be honest, for me the easiest way to solve this is to buy my own router. It's the path of least friction and I unfortunately don't have enough time to mess. I'm disappointed with Zen (again), but I'm prepared to pay more to have a fully working connection. I feel for those who don't have this option, and don't have the knowledge to blame the router.

Tim.

In reply to a post by sawyert:

In reply to a post by Geordish:

OP: have you tried factory resetting the router, and reconfiguring it from scratch?

No. I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere, and I'm not sure it'll help if it's a firmware bug.

In fairness, it probably won't help. Doing this can solve some problems though, so its always worth a go.

In reply to a post by sawyert:

There's a workaround for the SSH bug here: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/596671-FO... which involves changing a setting on the ssh client. I've not tried this - I've been trying to understand what it means (anyone got any useful links to help me?)

After some trawling I discovered a workaround. Set IPQos to cs0. Two ways to do this:

1) in /etc/ssh.ssh_config add the line "IPQos cs0"
2) on the command-line, eg. scp -o IPQos=cs0

To be honest, for me the easiest way to solve this is to buy my own router. It's the path of least friction and I unfortunately don't have enough time to mess. I'm disappointed with Zen (again), but I'm prepared to pay more to have a fully working connection. I feel for those who don't have this option, and don't have the knowledge to blame the router.

Tim.

So this is to make sure that the QoS markings are set to 0 (cs0 is class selector 0, which is 0). This is also known as the ToS bits.

If you are using the deault Linux OpenSSH client. The instructions are above. You probably want to add "IPQos cs0" to ~/.config

If you are using Putty ... It support it (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/wishlist/ip-tos.html). Packets will be set to CS0 by default.

Thanks everyone for your help.

So this is to make sure that the QoS markings are set to 0 (cs0 is class selector 0, which is 0). This is also known as the ToS bits.

Anyone know a good link for explaining the basics of this? I have a computing degree, but that was 20 years ago, and my comms knowledge is a little out of date...

I definitely want an all in one box, (I'm not going near bridging with the provided free router) my choice is probably from these.

TP-LINK TD-W9980 (N600)
ASUS DSL-AC68U AC1900 - Expensive
ZyXEL SBG3300-N - reportedly hard to use, but very configurable. Expensive.

It probably makes sense to go with the TP-LINK one - anyone got a contrary opinion?

Cheers,

Tim.

In reply to a post by sawyert:

Anyone know a good link for explaining the basics of this? I have a computing degree, but that was 20 years ago, and my comms knowledge is a little out of date...

Unless you work in networking (I do) there is probably little reason to have any knowledge of this. QoS is a massive can of worms, that you can buy entire books dedicated to. If you are interested in an overview, then the wikipedia page on DSCP is probably your best bet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differentiated_service...

Packets with QoS markings will not be given preferential treatment by your ISP unless you pay for a business grade service. BT Wholesale even threaten that they may drop your marked packets if you haven't paid for a QoS service (I've actually seen this happen).

In reply to a post by sawyert:

I definitely want an all in one box, (I'm not going near bridging with the provided free router) my choice is probably from these.

TP-LINK TD-W9980 (N600)
ASUS DSL-AC68U AC1900 - Expensive
ZyXEL SBG3300-N - reportedly hard to use, but very configurable. Expensive.

It probably makes sense to go with the TP-LINK one - anyone got a contrary opinion?

I have the ASUS RT-AC56U which I find to be an excellent router. I have changed the firmware to the asuswrt-merlin firmware. The only downside is there is no built in VDSL modem. Based on my experience I would probably go for the Asus, but I have not used the other two devices.

If toying with QoS then a vote for Asus, was able to actually get it to work and do turn it one now and then to rate limit the line and see how different streaming services cope with slower connections (sad I know)

TP Link has most of the options but interface is generally just a bit more old fashioned and annoys me, once set-up though when I've used them they are fine.

In reply to a post by sawyert:

I definitely want an all in one box, (I'm not going near bridging with the provided free router) my choice is probably from these.

TP-LINK TD-W9980 (N600)
ASUS DSL-AC68U AC1900 - Expensive
ZyXEL SBG3300-N - reportedly hard to use, but very configurable. Expensive.

It probably makes sense to go with the TP-LINK one - anyone got a contrary opinion?

While personally I have an HG612 and a Draytek 2830, you might find the Draytek 2860 does what you want. Be aware that at present I think only the beta firmware does G.INP so you'd need to be comfortable with that.

I have seen few problems with Draytek kit in the 11 years I have been using it, generally it's been solid for me except for a few silly bugs that were fixed quite quickly. Note that the Draytek international ftp site often has firmware available before Draytek UK put up links to it, granted that they do extra testing but that isn't a guarantee that they find the bugs

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The choice is larger if you are using an Openreach VDSL2 modem, but as you said VDSL router, will presume you want an all in one device in which case

TP Link All in one modem/router for £62

...however said router doesn't seem to allow routed subnets, and just has an epic tantrum as far as I can see - at least, if it's terminating an ADSL not VDSL link (doesn't seem to matter if it's PPPoA or PPPoE, it just loses the plot and refuses to deal with it. So also useless as a router, fine as a bridge to something more credible mind that can handle acting as a PPPoE client.

Using the TP link in standalone mode for fibre here and better than anything else I have used, including Billion 7800NL and both OR modems.

In reply to a post by professor973:

Using the TP link in standalone mode for fibre here and better than anything else I have used, including Billion 7800NL and both OR modems.

I'm not suggesting it doesn't work - as a standard router. But it doesn't like and support proper routed subnets as far as our testing concluded.

We also didn't find it gave better sync rates typically for VDSL - generally speaking it was around 1 meg less than the HG612 on a H matched cab, but for ADSL we found it was identical to other good quality routers.