WAN VLAN ID for Zen FTTP installation

I could have posted this in the fibre technical forum but as the request is Zen specific I thought I would try here first in case a quick answer is available before posting elsewhere or contacting Zen support.

Finally, our FTTP connection to Zen is about to complete. Openreach have completed the outside work and we now have fibre to the CSP outside. The second visit is booked for this week for the internal connection including fitting of the ONT.

I would like to use my existing router (Billion 7800nxl) via the EWAN socket to connect to the Optical Network Termination (ONT).

I've researched this and am happy with all connection settings except a VLAN value. Google tells me that the VLAN value for a Zen FTTC connection is 101 and I am trying to find out if this would be the same for FTTP, which is my case.

The available info on FTTP seems to be a lot lower than FTTC due to the much smaller rollout.

Anyone help with a value?

Thanks.

Should be the same as both are GEA based services

Thank you MrSaffron. Appreciated.

Just to follow up on my original post.

Zen FTTP is now installed and working. I am using a Billion 7800nxl connected to the BT ONT via the EWAN port.

The values for VLAN ID and the corresponding 802.1P Priority are left unset. Vaues -1 in the case of the Billion kit. Setting the VLAN ID to 101 stops things working.

I know this is only of interest to a small minority of users but am posting to help anyone who may be searching for the info in future.

JB.

We are now a few years on since this thread was active but it raises a question that will be asked more often as more people have FTTP installed.
The VLAN on the Technicolor DGA4134 supplied with my Zen/City Fibre installation last week was 911.
The same VLAN works with my Asus DSL-AX82U router.

I clocked that in your other thread where you posted the screenshots!

Unsurprisingly that topic has come up a number of times with various ISPs using CityFibre infra…and the answer on VLAN IDs is “it depends”.

911 is one of those used but it’s not universal even from the same ISP.

Edited by Pheasant (Mon 07-Mar-22 17:45:20)

I read a few more postings on the subject after I posted, including one that said 911 didn't work for them.

When we first launched services over CityFibre's network they required us to use VLAN 0. This worked great with our FRTZ!Boxes but lots of other CPE didn't support using a VLAN ID lower than "1". After working with CityFibre they agreed to change the spec to support using VLAN 911.

So now at the point we place or order with CityFibre we can specify either VLAN 0 or VLAN 911.

We've been using VLAN 911 on all new orders for quite some time now.

Edited by ajays (Wed 09-Mar-22 08:42:29)

Meanwhile on Zen's FTTC my FritzBox is connected using VLAN 101 and a VCI of 38.

I connected A N Other router via a bridged modem using PPPoE and it runs without me setting anything other than username and password. I seem to remember it wouldn't connect when I had the VLAN set.

How, why? Should I always have a VLAN set when connecting?

Two different kettles of fish…Openreach GEA (either FTTC or FTTP) will handle VLANs on CPE quite differently to CityFibre. This varies by network builder and their CPE. There is no hard and fast rule.

On Openreach FTTP for example, the ONT tags/untags the single (C-VLAN) or double tagged (C-VLAN + S-VLAN) traffic at the Ethernet interface. So when you connect a third party router all ISP traffic is on the default VLAN. No need to set anything on the router.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Meanwhile on Zen's FTTC my FritzBox is connected using VLAN 101 and a VCI of 38.

That VCI setting is unnecessary and is only required on ADSL.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

That VCI setting is unnecessary and is only required on ADSL.

That will be because I bought my own FritzBox when I upgraded from ADSL to FTTC and I just copied the settings over from the Technicolor! I'll delete it, thanks.

Devil's advocate says next week there will be some major interference or disruption to your connection, and without those settings your modem/router won't be able to negotiate with the DSLAM down to ADSLx. 👻

In reply to a post by pluralist:

without those settings your modem/router won't be able to negotiate with the DSLAM down to ADSLx. 👻

Is that really a thing? I thought FTTC and ADSL were different fish in different kettles, even if in the same kitchen.

Importantly, I forgot the thread was about FTTP where clearly my reply was not applicable. It was specifically referring to ADSL mentioned in:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Meanwhile on Zen's FTTC my FritzBox is connected using VLAN 101 and a VCI of 38.

That VCI setting is unnecessary and is only required on ADSL.

I've never seen any reports of an FTTC connection dropping VDSL2 down to ADSLx, but AIUI the DSLAMs in the FTTC cabinet could in theory do that.

However, whether or not it can happen will depend entirely on the options enabled by Openreach in the related cabinet modem.

Compare with how you could set the options in your modem under ADSLx to cater for excess noise bursts, allowing it to connect at lower levels than the highest available at the exchange. Many of us even forced lower levels in pursuit of faster connections on ADSL2 or even ADSL versus ADSL2+ on longer lines.

I wonder if anyone on very slow FTTC has tried setting their modem/router down to ADSL2+, to obtain the benefit of the lower attenuation from the cabinet compared to their previous exchange connection. I have a feeling it is indeed ruled out in the cabinet modems.

In reply to a post by ParksidePeter:

We are now a few years on since this thread was active but it raises a question that will be asked more often as more people have FTTP installed.
The VLAN on the Technicolor DGA4134 supplied with my Zen/City Fibre installation last week was 911.
The same VLAN works with my Asus DSL-AX82U router.

I've been advised by Zen that 911 is the setting for Cutyfibre - it works on 3 different routers *Frtiz, Technicolor, Draytek).

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Meanwhile on Zen's FTTC my FritzBox is connected using VLAN 101 and a VCI of 38.

VCIs aren't a thing on FTTC. Can be set to anything, doesn't matter.

The cabinets are expressly configured not to drop down to ADSL. They support VDSL 2, profile 17a only, bar trials.

The VCI is about ATM rather than ADSL specifically. Virtual Circuit ID, half of the VPI/VCI pair that forms an ATM PVC / permanent virtual circuit.

PPPoE uses VLANs, sometimes stacked, instead.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion Carl. It's a pity though. ADSL2+ could gain from local DSLAMs. Could even perhaps take some slow areas above 10Mbps.

I don't quite understand why you are stating it works on 3 different routers, it has to work whatever router you are using as it is a parameter on the FTTP network, all user connections have to use the correct VLAN ID. I quite like the name Cutyfibre though.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

I don't quite understand why you are stating it works on 3 different routers, it has to work whatever router you are using as it is a parameter on the FTTP network, all user connections have to use the correct VLAN ID. I quite like the name Cutyfibre though.

Not well written - apologies. I wanted to confirm the value. The ref to 3 different routers was to the fact that I've wrestled for some weeks to try and get the network setup on FTTP that we had on FTTC and it had taken three different routers to get there - and each time I've had to input the VLan ID

This is true for both Cityfibre and Cutyfibre 😄

In reply to a post by pluralist:

Thanks for confirming my suspicion Carl. It's a pity though. ADSL2+ could gain from local DSLAMs. Could even perhaps take some slow areas above 10Mbps.

It'd wipe out ADSL from the exchange with crosstalk. LLU operators refused to permit Openreach to do it so the trial was abandoned.

Ah! Obvious once you point it out. /me D'oh!

But, that is surely historical, in that the days where the "LLU" suppliers getting up to speed with FTTC are long gone. These days it would make a lot of sense, as non-FFTC areas would not be affected, and FTTC areas would benefit from all suppliers.

Though perhaps it would need 100% of ADSLx users to be switched to the FTTC cabinets almost instantaneously (per cabinet), and all providers to be able to handle the change of direction. No small task in itself.

Plus many FTTC cabinets or their PCPs could need additional ports/add-ons.

All things considered, sounds like it a no-no at this point in time .