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Standard User Steikums
(newbie) Fri 29-Jan-21 07:35:17
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Re: Zen latency huge drop.


[re: F9B54DA3BB3C] [link to this post]
 
Well it's still on around 8ms so i'm just going to slowly back away and hope that this is just the natural state now.

Thanks everyone for the replies.
Standard User jimbof
(newbie) Sat 06-Feb-21 14:06:59
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Re: Zen latency huge drop.


[re: AndrewNi] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AndrewNi:
For me though, it's the gateway, and it happens a lot. Take a look at this TTB graph from this morning.

My latency has doubled. I didn't even lose sync; the drop was with PPP.

Following with interest; I've just signed up for 900/115 FTTP with Zen (not yet provisioned) and don't really want a "Latency lottery" - I last had that about 10 years ago with Plusnet and their various gateways. I reliably get 7-9ms pings from where I am (Norwich) on EE FTTC / and my fibre office broadband at the moment, those kind of increases in latency would really miff me.

Have you elicited any feedback from Zen as to why this happens and what it is about the gateways that is so different? It's not like there are a ton of hops there to figure out...
Standard User AndrewNi
(member) Sun 07-Feb-21 14:25:56
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Re: Zen latency huge drop.


[re: jimbof] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jimbof:
Have you elicited any feedback from Zen as to why this happens and what it is about the gateways that is so different? It's not like there are a ton of hops there to figure out...

No, but I think I know. Zen have presences in Manchester and London. In the past, this was easily visible on a trace (wh-man.zen.net.uk & th-lon.zen.net.uk). Manchester had the higher latency for me because I'm in the SW.

Last year, Zen changed some things around behind the scenes. I reckon I'm connected to a Manchester gateway when the latency is high, even though it says lond in the domain.

It's an annoyance, but not worth pressing (for me).


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Standard User jimbof
(newbie) Sun 07-Feb-21 17:07:17
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Re: Zen latency huge drop.


[re: AndrewNi] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AndrewNi:
No, but I think I know. Zen have presences in Manchester and London. In the past, this was easily visible on a trace (wh-man.zen.net.uk & th-lon.zen.net.uk). Manchester had the higher latency for me because I'm in the SW.

Last year, Zen changed some things around behind the scenes. I reckon I'm connected to a Manchester gateway when the latency is high, even though it says lond in the domain.

It's an annoyance, but not worth pressing (for me).

Or perhaps those nodes really are London and the traffic goes via a different provider's infrastructure in the meantime.

Those sort of magnitudes of increase just seem wrong to me given I can get to Amsterdam and back in less round trip penalty.

I guess everyone has different thresholds of "bothered"...! smile

Do you still notice it happening, and as an aside, do your PPP sessions come and go very frequently? Is that because you reboot the router a lot?
Standard User AndrewNi
(member) Mon 08-Feb-21 11:36:40
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Re: Zen latency huge drop.


[re: jimbof] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jimbof:
Do you still notice it happening, and as an aside, do your PPP sessions come and go very frequently? Is that because you reboot the router a lot?

It happens maybe 3 or 4 times a month. Sometimes it is the line that drops, but I hardly ever reboot the router. The last restart was due to a Fritz!OS update.

I notice it when I move between the "slow lane" and the "fast lane", but otherwise I get used to it. Bandwidth is unaffected.
Standard User jimbof
(newbie) Mon 08-Feb-21 11:48:35
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Re: Zen latency huge drop.


[re: AndrewNi] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by AndrewNi:
It happens maybe 3 or 4 times a month. Sometimes it is the line that drops, but I hardly ever reboot the router. The last restart was due to a Fritz!OS update.

I notice it when I move between the "slow lane" and the "fast lane", but otherwise I get used to it. Bandwidth is unaffected.

Thanks, I'm most worried about possible effects on VPN traffic as that is what I want the upload speed for (connecting to my office VPN which is on a fast link to London). I guess I'll cross that bridge if I get to it; as I didn't want to use a BT family provider (they all seem to want to pick up the telephone line which risks me losing my existing copper) Zen seemed to be one of the best other options.

I guess having the existing EE FTTC service line will give me a useful point of comparison.
Standard User Woolwich
(committed) Mon 08-Feb-21 12:34:05
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Re: Zen latency huge drop.


[re: jimbof] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jimbof:
Thanks, I'm most worried about possible effects on VPN traffic as that is what I want the upload speed for (connecting to my office VPN which is on a fast link to London).


If you are planning on using a FritBox router beware they are limited when it comes to VPN throughput. I've had to resort to SFTP to get a decent connection to one remote location where I'd prefer VPN. The maximum upload I was getting of VPN was ~5 to 10Mbps.
Standard User prlzx
(experienced) Mon 08-Feb-21 13:43:59
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Re: Zen latency huge drop.


[re: Woolwich] [link to this post]
 
I suspect jimbof will be using a VPN client on their computer in which case throughput won't be affected.
As far as the router is concerned most VPN traffic will look like any other UDP traffic.

The VPN throughput of a router relates to when the router itself is the source or destination endpoint of a VPN,
in which case OpenVPN will be the slowest, IPsec (e.g. IKEv2) will be ok if the hardware can handle AES efficiently.



prlzx on Zen: FTTC (VDSL) at ~40Mbps / 10Mbps
with IP4/6 (no v6? - not true Internet)

Edited by prlzx (Mon 08-Feb-21 13:45:11)

Standard User jimbof
(newbie) Mon 08-Feb-21 14:01:13
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Re: Zen latency huge drop.


[re: Woolwich] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Woolwich:
If you are planning on using a FritBox router beware they are limited when it comes to VPN throughput. I've had to resort to SFTP to get a decent connection to one remote location where I'd prefer VPN. The maximum upload I was getting of VPN was ~5 to 10Mbps.

The office is my own, so I have a site-site VPN set up in my Ubiquiti hardware (the two sites are on separate subnets so it is all routed transparently over VPN). I've got a USG4Pro at home but only a USG3 in the office, that one will need upgrading as it isn't fast enough to saturate this link over VPN (assuming no other issues).

I did try and avoid Zen sending me the Fritz as it's just going to go into the attic with all the rest of the Telco routers, but they weren't having it, the guy on the phone said I'd have to use their router for troubleshooting (which I kind of get for a consumer service, though it does annoy me if I'm going to have to justify every issue ever with swapping to the Fritzbox... as it won't do most of what I need).

Edited by jimbof (Mon 08-Feb-21 14:02:02)

Standard User jimbof
(newbie) Mon 08-Feb-21 14:04:19
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Re: Zen latency huge drop.


[re: prlzx] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by prlzx:
The VPN throughput of a router relates to when the router itself is the source or destination endpoint of a VPN,
in which case OpenVPN will be the slowest, IPsec (e.g. IKEv2) will be ok if the hardware can handle AES efficiently.

Router performance is an issue for me as I will be doing site-site VPN, but not using the Fritz. One side of my Ubiquiti link will need upgrading as it's not up to the job.
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