City Fibre are Digging Outside

Hi all,

City Fibre are digging on my door step but both Zen and City Fibre's checker say it's not available in my area.

Does anyone know if these checkers can say in advance that it's available to me or not?

I ask because I'm part of a much bigger building and I'm concerned that, even though it's definitely coming to my area (and street), do I still need to depend on them supplying to my building for me to get the service?

It's a big building and they'd still have a long way to route cable once they came in off the street. Would they need to agree on doing to the whole building before I get the option or would they go out of their way to supply to my door, another 50m upstairs?

It only seems like yesterday I was on here talking about 512mb/s ADSL - crazy times to think where we are these days. Fingers crossed!

Thanks

Have you checked your exact address on the CityFibre website? It will either say something along the lines of 'coming soon', 'no plans' or 'we need landowner's/landlord's/leaseholder's permission'.

CityFibre dug up our street last March and we're still waiting for it to go live with no response from Zen or CityFibre about when that will be. CityFibre are still working in my town so I am wondering if we have to wait until the whole area is completed.

The availability checker says

Our network is now live outside your home. Register below and be the first to know when you can get connected with one of our broadband partners.

I registered months ago and am still waiting.

They would need to get an agreement with the freeholder of the building before they can build their network out to supply you service.

"Thanks for your interest, we haven’t planned your area at the moment."

I thought maybe the checker just wasn't displaying it yet but I had a response from Zen/City Fibre saying it's not planned for my address even though other houses on the street are getting it, but they're going to look into it.

Is there cabinets for this thing, do I need to be a certain distance from something? At a guess I think it's more to do with it not really being close to my flat door, even though they were digging 2 meters away from the building entrance

There is quite a few businesses next to me, I am wondering what they need to do and where the fibre is coming from on the roadside?

Edited by Marz (Thu 20-Jan-22 23:08:58)

Might be worth a chat with my landlord tomorrow

In reply to a post by stevejm:

CityFibre dug up our street last March and we're still waiting for it to go live with no response from Zen or CityFibre about when that will be. CityFibre are still working in my town so I am wondering if we have to wait until the whole area is completed.

The availability checker says

Our network is now live outside your home. Register below and be the first to know when you can get connected with one of our broadband partners.

I registered months ago and am still waiting.

That's a bit rubbish. I hope you're a one off! Maybe you'rte in the same situation as me, where they're only doiing certain parts/buildings?

There's no complications here, there's a small cable cover outside our house and a cabinet not far away. Judging by local forums no-one has been connected yet.

I wonder what they're waiting for! Either way good luck getting it! It can't be far off; you've waited long enough!

Which makes me think, I'm fine with what I've got, but it'd be nice all the same, seeing as it's not much more money!

I was in a similar situation until yesterday (Jan 20th 2022) when I got the email saying I could order.
They dug up my street sometime around April/May last year (21), and it has gone live this week. I presume that putting in the ducts is only the first step - said ducting will then need to be populated with fiber (I believe that was around August last year) and all that will need to be connected up to the rest of the network and tested. They are working on the whole town (Maidenhead) here so I guess it just takes a while to connect everything up and test it all before they can start selling.

I don't know about others experiences, it was really quite difficult to find any estimates on how long it would be between digging and live - I hope my experience is helpful to someone!

Now I need to decide on ISPs but its quite refreshing to finally see the potential of 900Mbps. Hopefully the infrastructure is fairly future proof. I can't see 900Mbps being considered slow for some time - but I probably said the same when the first 512kps DSL arrived - I guess that was 20+(?) years ago lol how things have changed :/.

In reply to a post by philg:

Hopefully the infrastructure is fairly future proof.

It is. It uses Single Mode Fibre, which can run at 10G, 25G or faster as required - just by changing the equipment at each end. Since the different standards can run concurrently on the same fibre strand, individual customers can be upgraded without having to do a "big bang" upgrade of everyone.

The main issue with Cityfibre is their use of directly-buried microducts, instead of pulling them through a larger outer duct. If one microduct in the bundle becomes blocked or damaged, it's unlikely to be repairable.

Yes I noticed while they were digging the pavement that they had a chunky duct (presumably to feed the cabinet and then much smaller to each couple of properties) but they seems to be well protected and on my street at least, the distance to the cab is not great for all the properties. So hopefully that wont be an issue for some time! Got to be better than the mess that is Virgin media ducts.... What will be interesting is how they go from the little service point on the pavement to the property (hopefully they will be a better job than Virgin did haha?!)

In reply to a post by stevejm:

There's no complications here, there's a small cable cover outside our house and a cabinet not far away. Judging by local forums no-one has been connected yet.

I had an email direct from City Fibre which mirrors your experience.

"We are currently in planning stages in your street.

Our chosen service provider will be in contact in your area to introduce to you who they are and advise when services are available, which can sometimes take up to 6 to 12 months after the fibre cables have been laid."

Time to sit back and see how it goes! Shame because I might not be living here in a year!

In reply to a post by philg:

I was in a similar situation until yesterday (Jan 20th 2022) when I got the email saying I could order.
They dug up my street sometime around April/May last year (21), and it has gone live this week. I presume that putting in the ducts is only the first step - said ducting will then need to be populated with fiber (I believe that was around August last year) and all that will need to be connected up to the rest of the network and tested. They are working on the whole town (Maidenhead) here so I guess it just takes a while to connect everything up and test it all before they can start selling.

I don't know about others experiences, it was really quite difficult to find any estimates on how long it would be between digging and live - I hope my experience is helpful to someone!

Now I need to decide on ISPs but its quite refreshing to finally see the potential of 900Mbps. Hopefully the infrastructure is fairly future proof. I can't see 900Mbps being considered slow for some time - but I probably said the same when the first 512kps DSL arrived - I guess that was 20+(?) years ago lol how things have changed :/.

I already mentioned it on another reply but City Fibre said it can take 6-12months after digging up and stuff, so I'm just waiting now

In reply to a post by Marz:

Hi all,

City Fibre are digging on my door step but both Zen and City Fibre's checker say it's not available in my area.

Does anyone know if these checkers can say in advance that it's available to me or not?

I ask because I'm part of a much bigger building and I'm concerned that, even though it's definitely coming to my area (and street), do I still need to depend on them supplying to my building for me to get the service?

It's a big building and they'd still have a long way to route cable once they came in off the street. Would they need to agree on doing to the whole building before I get the option or would they go out of their way to supply to my door, another 50m upstairs?

It only seems like yesterday I was on here talking about 512mb/s ADSL - crazy times to think where we are these days. Fingers crossed!

Thanks

The checkers got nerfed, early 2021, the checker would have said they are currently building in your area and to expect it soon, now it will just say to check back for updates, and is very similarly worded to areas with no plans.

I expect when it is actually available it will jump to that with no "building in your area" in between, it could be months though, there is people who are still waiting a year after local works are done.

In reply to a post by CarlTSpeak:

They would need to get an agreement with the freeholder of the building before they can build their network out to supply you service.

Is interesting that cityfibre seem to be one of a few who are going down this path, e.g. grain FTTP are letting students in rented accommodation order without any of that red tape, like wise when I first got ADSL in my rented property openreach didnt make me jump through that hurdle either. Likewise my sister when renting required virgin media to dig up her front garden, again no freeholder check. If its law its clearly not enforced which begs the question, why are cityfibre doing it?

Also it seems to be only flats, there is flat owners I know who are the freeholders, on cityfibre status checker reporting freeholder approval required whilst rented and leasehold houses dont have the check, they seem to have just put the barrier to any address with flat in the name. The description on cityfibre website states its a multiple occupancy thing, yet of course many flats dont count as multiple occupancy buildings, seems very lazily implemented.

The human responses I got back are that cityfibre "will" still build the network to outside the properties, and the approval is only required for the actual install to the property.

Edited by Chrysalis (Mon 14-Feb-22 11:20:16)

For anyone keen to sign up with a supplier using the CityFibre network I'd advise them to keep checking availability on the CF website, not to rely on having registered an interest.
I registered after the CF contractors started working outside my house, and the rest of the locality, last summer, and occasionally checked the CF website. A few weeks ago I checked and it said the network was still being developed, then last week it said service was available, with links to the providers so far available. I phoned Zen the next day, the router arrived on Saturday and I'm being connected next Thursday.
Still not heard a word from CF's marketing department, nor from Zen's come to that.

The other point I meant to make is that whether CityFibre uses microducts depends on the existing BT infrastructure.
So my installation should be direct from the new CF cabinet, located next to an existing BT chamber, to the house via the BT equivalent of a microduct, but other houses nearby will be served by CF microducts. The area was developed in the late 1980s/early '90s so I guess that the difference is due to different developers installing the BT infrastructure.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Is interesting that cityfibre seem to be one of a few who are going down this path, e.g. grain FTTP are letting students in rented accommodation order without any of that red tape, like wise when I first got ADSL in my rented property openreach didnt make me jump through that hurdle either. Likewise my sister when renting required virgin media to dig up her front garden, again no freeholder check. If its law its clearly not enforced which begs the question, why are cityfibre doing it?

In reply to a post by Marz:

I ask because I'm part of a much bigger building and I'm concerned that, even though it's definitely coming to my area (and street), do I still need to depend on them supplying to my building for me to get the service?

It's a big building and they'd still have a long way to route cable once they came in off the street. Would they need to agree on doing to the whole building before I get the option or would they go out of their way to supply to my door, another 50m upstairs?

The freeholder is unlikely to be enthralled if CityFibre rock up, dig their way to the building then place cabling either externally or internally a further 50m. CityFibre won't do this anyway, wouldn't be viable. Would need to be the entire building.

Somewhat different from students renting rooms in a house that is, from telco's point of view, a single dwelling, or a tenant ignoring the requirement to get permission from their landlord: VM don't check ownership on the Land Registry.

No company would carry out this install without permission from the freeholder. They would be sued into the ground.

yeah for sure I can understand it on HMO's. Especially tower blocks, but it seems to be applied to properties like mine which is basically a house.

Thanks for confirming VM dont check, I guess they have found out the risk of been sued doesnt affect profits enough.

Seems all mute now, looks like they abandoned rollout on my street lol.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Seems all mute now, looks like they abandoned rollout on my street lol.

Yeah I stole your rollout, sorry!

We're still building our Full Fibre network in your area.
Register your interest and we'll be in touch when we've identified the best way to connect your home.

Edited by CarlTSpeak (Fri 08-Apr-22 23:05:49)

haha.

Well it was a false alarm, planned again.

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 12-Apr-22 02:42:42)

Similar situation where I live. CityFibre (back when they were called FibreNation) dug the street, along with the rest of this small town, at some point in early 2020 - I can't remember when, 2020 is so long ago! There are FibreNation branded manhole covers up and down the road, but the whole thing went completely quiet soon afterwards.

CityFibre's checker says they're "building in your area now, but we've not got to you yet", but as it has now been 2+ years since the street was dug, I'm no longer holding my breath! Virgin Gig1 is also available in this street, but if I'm going to go full fibre I'd much rather stay with Zen than suffer the Virgin experience.

Their rollout does seem very slow to finish once they start on an area compared to openreach.

I thought they abandoned "building in your area", because when i check streets where they currently are doing works in my city it just says the its planned message. Most of these streets have not progressed for weeks, they started then equipment and manning vanished as if they had to work on another area or something.

Some more planned works appeared on a street near me after a few months of nothing at all of which I will check out myself when the works start if there is actual activity or if its more ghost roadworks, so really would love to know more of the inner workings of how their rollouts work, but trying to get info out of them is like getting blood out of a stone. I have noticed as well zen appear to have removed their cityfibre FTTP checker live result instead just offering register your interest, maybe too many queries and not enough answers upstream from cityfibre?

Edited by Chrysalis (Sat 28-May-22 21:18:09)

I agree that it seems impossible to get details out of CityFibre. But Twitter @ZenInternetHelp made enquiries for me (road works in my street in March 2021 but CityFibre still working elsewhere) and they told me that Zen have recently agreed to supply CityFibre to many more towns. They are hoping things will get going by September - we'll see.

Edited by stevejm (Sat 28-May-22 21:33:23)

Seems in many cases they build or extend the core network and return later to handle the FTTH bit. They only use PIA for the customer drops so build their own network past every premises, or at least pole and chamber, they need to cover. VMO2 do the same thing when building FTTP via PIA: own core duct and cabinets connecting to Openreach infrastructure.

Far from uncommon to have a first dig then overlay that with FTTP microduct.

Doesn't mean they've forgotten anyone, presumably it reflects the resources they have available and the build requirements. The build plans are done by professionals who know what they're doing, so there's obviously a method to the apparent madness.

You can actually see this from companies that are exclusively or largely PIA, too. From the POV of streetworks you'll see a bit of duct unblocking between chambers, some cabling work, some new chambers next to Openreach nodes, then later on a bunch more duct unlocking in adjacent areas as they branch out from the core to Openreach DPs and hit blockages on the way.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

Seems in many cases they build or extend the core network and return later to handle the FTTH bit. They only use PIA for the customer drops so build their own network past every premises, or at least pole and chamber, they need to cover. VMO2 do the same thing when building FTTP via PIA: own core duct and cabinets connecting to Openreach infrastructure.

Far from uncommon to have a first dig then overlay that with FTTP microduct.

Doesn't mean they've forgotten anyone, presumably it reflects the resources they have available and the build requirements. The build plans are done by professionals who know what they're doing, so there's obviously a method to the apparent madness.

You can actually see this from companies that are exclusively or largely PIA, too. From the POV of streetworks you'll see a bit of duct unblocking between chambers, some cabling work, some new chambers next to Openreach nodes, then later on a bunch more duct unlocking in adjacent areas as they branch out from the core to Openreach DPs and hit blockages on the way.

Ok thanks for the information, makes some sense.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

They only use PIA for the customer drops

What does this mean? (I know what PIA is!) I'm seeing CF build to the curtilage and leave a toby. Or are you talking about dropping from a pole, rather than a duct connection?

I've seen three approaches used by CityFibre (and VirginMedia on their new stuff).

Microtrench to the curtilage and a toby.
Use PIA and have their equivalent of the CBT on the pole.
Use PIA underground all the way to the house.

CF started doing all their installs using the first approach, but I've seen all three in use now. Seems to depend on the state of the Openreach estate and if cables are directly buried.

https://goo.gl/maps/3bskvd2LgFmSMsT38 - this has a CF box on the pole and if you go down Goodwood Close next to it you will see micro trenching and CF Tobys, so a mix in one area.

In reply to a post by Ad_G:

I've seen three approaches used by CityFibre (and VirginMedia on their new stuff).

Microtrench to the curtilage and a toby.
Use PIA and have their equivalent of the CBT on the pole.
Use PIA underground all the way to the house.

CF started doing all their installs using the first approach, but I've seen all three in use now. Seems to depend on the state of the Openreach estate and if cables are directly buried.

https://goo.gl/maps/3bskvd2LgFmSMsT38 - this has a CF box on the pole and if you go down Goodwood Close next to it you will see micro trenching and CF Tobys, so a mix in one area.

Am I seeing CF tobies in the middle of the footway on Goodwood? Or are they water stopcocks. Where ever I've seen CF or VM02 tobies they're always right up against the garden wall/boundary.

For PIA all the way, I'm assuming CF always install their own boxes on the pavement so they come out of the OR duct, split or whatever happens in the box and back down the duct to the house. Ever seen any where they don't install boxes but use the OR pavement box?

Also, what's going on with the motorbike!? Did it die, or was it just sleeping!

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Am I seeing CF tobies in the middle of the footway on Goodwood? Or are they water stopcocks. Where ever I've seen CF or VM02 tobies they're always right up against the garden wall/boundary.

For PIA all the way, I'm assuming CF always install their own boxes on the pavement so they come out of the OR duct, split or whatever happens in the box and back down the duct to the house. Ever seen any where they don't install boxes but use the OR pavement box?

Also, what's going on with the motorbike!? Did it die, or was it just sleeping!

The circular ones in the middle are water meters, VM (was East Coast Cable) have square ones by the boundary and the CF ones are the newer rectangular tobies near the boundary, not as easy to spot.

Where I've seen PIA all the way underground there are CF green boxes around and looks like their own ducts from them towards CF exchange based on where the tarmac has been dug.

No idea on the Motorbike, the area is near a friends who I've not seen in a while.

In reply to a post by Ad_G:

Where I've seen PIA all the way underground there are CF green boxes around and looks like their own ducts from them towards CF exchange based on where the tarmac has been dug.

Exactly. From the cabinets to the customers are customer drops, they use their own network to the cabinets.

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

They only use PIA for the customer drops

What does this mean? (I know what PIA is!) I'm seeing CF build to the curtilage and leave a toby. Or are you talking about dropping from a pole, rather than a duct connection?

It means their only use of PIA is for customer drops. They build their own network up to the drops. The only exception to this is where it's impossible for them to build, and that is super rare as they'll use poles and directional drilling where they have to. They certainly build their own laterals as well - this is how they started their build before starting to use hybrid build, own core with PIA drops, alongside their own drops via laterals and tobies.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

It means their only use of PIA is for customer drops.

I don't understand what you mean by "customer drops". What does "customer drops" mean?

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

From the cabinets to the customers are customer drops, they use their own network to the cabinets.

If you're saying what I think you're saying, I think you're wrong.

I'm pretty sure CF will PIA into the OR ducting from where ever, run down whole streets using OR, only popping out to nip into their own cabinets, then back down the OR duct to the punters' houses. IOW they also use the OR 'network' of ducts to get to CF cabinets.

I am observing CityFibre digging in their own ducts (proper ducts not shoddy shallow micro tubes ) then dropping off at and PIAing poles. This makes sense to me and replicates the design of the original telephone network.

For those of us who don't know, what is PIA?

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

Seems in many cases they build or extend the core network and return later to handle the FTTH bit. They only use PIA for the customer drops so build their own network past every premises, or at least pole and chamber, they need to cover. VMO2 do the same thing when building FTTP via PIA: own core duct and cabinets connecting to Openreach infrastructure.

Far from uncommon to have a first dig then overlay that with FTTP microduct.

Doesn't mean they've forgotten anyone, presumably it reflects the resources they have available and the build requirements. The build plans are done by professionals who know what they're doing, so there's obviously a method to the apparent madness.

You can actually see this from companies that are exclusively or largely PIA, too. From the POV of streetworks you'll see a bit of duct unblocking between chambers, some cabling work, some new chambers next to Openreach nodes, then later on a bunch more duct unlocking in adjacent areas as they branch out from the core to Openreach DPs and hit blockages on the way.

What you said seems to be playing out, starting to see more roadworks pop up on BIDB now after a period of nothing, so maybe this is the FTTH bit.