F&W Networks - Anyone from Zen on here?

F&W Networks are busy deploying FTTP on my road, and I expect it to become available from their partner ISP Hey!Broadband shortly.

Given that only they and (I'd never touch it) Virgin are the only providers here, I may well move to Hey from Zen.

However I'm interested to know if Zen have/will approach F&W about reselling their product, thus I could stay with/return to Zen but with F&W's FTTP.

F&W don't appear to wholesale like Openreach and CityFibre do.

The chances of Zen providing internet service over F&W's fibre appears to be zilch.

That's interesting as their website states:

Working to complement the provision of national operators; F&W’s deployment of end-to-end Full Fibre networks for broadband providers, centres around areas with no full-fibre infrastructure.

Which seems to indicate that they're building the network for anyone that wants it.

Their "partner" ISP Hey!Broadband seems to have spun up to build a customer base. It's very basic in terms of website, support etc.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's designed to be sold on.

In reply to a post by AndyPandy:

It wouldn't surprise me if it's designed to be sold on.

That's the (back-stop) business model of the very large majority of Altnet's, whether or not they explicitly setup shop as a wholesale network operator.

Its just a bit early to tell perhaps, as we are still very much in the foothills of the 'great Altnet consolidation'*

* To see how this story pans out, refer to the cable television companies of the nineties.

What surprises me is Altnets overbuilding other Altnets. Surely once an area is served, it only really pays for Openreach to overbuild to give choice of ISP back.

Post deleted by nofappingway

I am in a similar situation, Netomnia sent me a letter saying they will be roiling out FTTP in my aria, I asked Zen if they would partner with them but it seems no plans (yet) they are working with City fibre only!

I wonder how long it will take for all these FTTP Altnets to end up like the cable ones did (taken over by one big company AKA Virgin).
Such a shame that OpenReach are left to pick and choose who they feel like upgrading.
At least we are starting to see other options appearing.

Interesting signature, what is the difference between "Dile up" and "Dial up"?

In reply to a post by RichTea23:

I wonder how long it will take for all these FTTP Altnets to end up like the cable ones did (taken over by one big company AKA Virgin).

Actually NTL bought the other Altnets, with the Virgin moniker simply licenced from Branson's Virgin Group which had a 10.7% shareholding.

VM was then bought by Liberty Global and since the linkup with O2 is 50% owned by Liberty Global and 50% Telefonica. AIUI Branson still does have a significant shareholding. (Under 10%, maybe 5.35%).

Edited by pluralist (Wed 09-Feb-22 13:21:26)

In reply to a post by RichTea23:

I wonder how long it will take for all these FTTP Altnets to end up like the cable ones did (taken over by one big company AKA Virgin).

That is the sixty-four million dollar question!

Perhaps when their revenues or take-up metrics no longer meet with their shareholder / banks / sponsor / private equity / sovereign wealth fund backers approval or expectation any longer.

For now the money is still flowing and it’s jam time.

Our chairman, Richard Tang, spoke a little about the "The Altnet Goldrush" and the decision not to work lots of different altnets at the moment, during a speech at the LINX 114 event last November.

https://youtu.be/bJ73FMEzIBs

In reply to a post by pluralist:

since the linkup with O2 is 50% owned by Liberty Global and 50% Telefonica. AIUI Branson still does have a significant shareholding. (Under 10%, maybe 5.35%).

Scratches head, gets calculator.

As I recall Granada (in my area) appeared on the scene in the early 60s. Thirty or so years later the cable companies seemed to be dying (dead?) and then the consolidation started. Was Telewest one of the early consolidators? Then Liberty Global came along, eventually buying up Virgin Mobile and slapping the "Virgin Media" sticker on themselves. So don't hold your breath.

There's probably an accurate history on Wikipedia as opposed to my dodgy memory.

John

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by pluralist:

since the linkup with O2 is 50% owned by Liberty Global and 50% Telefonica. AIUI Branson still does have a significant shareholding. (Under 10%, maybe 5.35%).

Scratches head, gets calculator.

He had 10.7% of the shares in VM after Liberty Global bought it. Then they merged VM with O2 on a 50/50 basis.

The 10.45% stake he had when NTL and Telewest merged and under the Virgin Media moniker in 2006 was reduced to around 6.5% in May 2009 according to this article.

Wikipedia says:
In July 2007, Virgin Group hedged 37% of its stake in Virgin Media for $224m through a collared loan agreement with Credit Suisse, a transaction which enabled it to retain the voting and dividend rights. Virgin Group had the option of buying back the 12.8m Virgin Media shares it had mortgaged after two years, but in May 2009 decided against this. The funds were used at the time by Virgin Group to invest in other areas of its business, such as Virgin Green Fund, which was launched in September 2007, Virgin America and Virgin Mobile India. By December 2009, Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Entertainment Investment Holdings Limited held a minority holding of 21,413,099 Virgin Media common stock, making him the third largest shareholder.

When Liberty swooped in 2013 to buy VM he held 6.6m shares according to this article - worth £202m and paid as £67m in cash in £135m in Liberty shares.

Plus of course the £10m or so he makes per year from the branding.

Is this relevant?

Probably a smidge more than your post 😂 had a bad day or what old boy?

Just a personal opinion.

In reply to a post by dect:

Interesting signature, what is the difference between "Dile up" and "Dial up"?

Did It Load Eventually