Zen FTTP Regrade Installation questions

Hi, We're due our engineer visit in a few weeks to upgrade our FTTC service to FTTP.

1) Does anyone know what ONT we will receive? The reason I ask is because I've seen the various Openreach branded ones come in several sizes and if it's one of the bigger four ports ones I may have some complaints from the family who are very anal about keeping the hallway clean of wires and devices... I asked a Zen rep earlier and they acted like I'd just asked the dumbest question of mankind. It's one thing to say you don't know but jesus christ they were rude as ****. Not impressed.

2) Our current setup takes a Cat6 RJ11 to RJ45 cable from the master socket to the router in the other room under the floorboards. Changing this cable is going to be a pain in the ass. To my understanding, all the ONTs take an RJ45 rather than RJ11. Can I just use an RJ11 to RJ45 adapter, and not worry about any performance degradation? Or would it be possible to re-crimp the RJ11 as an RJ45 connector - is this even possible and if so could I pay the Openreach engineer to do this?

3) Will the engineer allow us to choose where the ONT will go? Or will they only install it where the current master socket is? The ideal location is in the next room, 5-m~ away.

Cheers

Edited by AstroflashTB (Tue 10-May-22 16:40:44)

Within reason, the engineer will install the ONT where you request. It doesn't need to be next to or even near the master socket.

I think the ONTs that get deployed now are quite small.

Between the router and ONT is an ethernet cable, not phone.

The engineer probably won't touch your RJ11 cable if asked. They'll just want to get the ONT installed and connected to your router

In reply to a post by AstroflashTB:

1) Does anyone know what ONT we will receive?

Higly likely to be a single port Nokia 82mm wide, 89mm High and 27mm deep

In reply to a post by AstroflashTB:

2) Our current setup takes a Cat6 RJ11 to RJ45 cable from the master socket to the router in the other room under the floorboards. Changing this cable is going to be a pain in the ass. To my understanding, all the ONTs take an RJ45 rather than RJ11. Can I just use an RJ11 to RJ45 adapter, and not worry about any performance degradation? Or would it be possible to re-crimp the RJ11 as an RJ45 connector - is this even possible and if so could I pay the Openreach engineer to do this?

Openreach engineer or one of their contractors won't mess with your cat 6 cable, you would need to get someone else to do it or try an adapter first

In reply to a post by AstroflashTB:

3) Will the engineer allow us to choose where the ONT will go? Or will they only install it where the current master socket is? The ideal location is in the next room, 5-m~ away.

This is something you would need to discuss with the engineer on the day as some are more accommodating than others

Thanks - something of that size sounds perfectly reasonable.

Guess I'll wait and see what the engineer is prepared to do re. installation location.

dont forget that the ONT needs to be powered so needs a mains socket nearby. the ONT comes with a small walwart style of power supply

Bit tangential to this thread, but is it possible to hardwire a Cat5/6 cable directly to the ONT or do you have to use the RJ45 socket?

At present I have a length of Cat5e hardwired to the master socket which then runs to the router socket. Ideally I would like to transfer this - the master socket end - to the ONT and hardwire it there.

I'm assuming the master socket becomes useless once the ONT is installed since any phones are wired to the router, either directly if it's one with VoIP or via an adaptor (EG Grandstream 801/802)

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

Bit tangential to this thread, but is it possible to hardwire a Cat5/6 cable directly to the ONT or do you have to use the RJ45 socket?

At present I have a length of Cat5e hardwired to the master socket which then runs to the router socket. Ideally I would like to transfer this - the master socket end - to the ONT and hardwire it there.

You have to use the socket on the ONT, there are no punchdown terminals.

Assuming you have enough length on your cable crimp an RJ45 plug onto it. The DC power, fibre and network cables are all exposed on the bottom of the ONT facing downwards. New build installs have an enclosure for the ONT to hide the wiring but AFAIK these are not fitted when upgrading premises from copper to fibre, although one was provided on an FTTPoD install last year which wasn't expected. You might be able to ask the engineer nicely if they have some in the van.

I'm assuming the master socket becomes useless once the ONT is installed since any phones are wired to the router, either directly if it's one with VoIP or via an adaptor (EG Grandstream 801/802)

Unless you have wired secondary phone sockets. Openreach seem to have abandoned fitting a voice reinjection faceplate which allow an ATA in the router, or separate, to be connected to the house wiring completely isolated from the external wire back to the exchange. There are articles on the web describing how to make a DIY version.

Hey, I don't know what your thoughts are on Community Fibre but I've just noticed they've started installing their services in and around our postcode - but not yet on our road. Their prices look very tempting, not to mention their packages are symmetrical.
Wondering if I should I put back my Openreach installation a few weeks to see if they get round to us.
Couple questions:
I'm guessing if keep the current Openreach FTTP appointment, I wouldn't be able to use their ONT with Community Fibre. -> Meaning if I were to switch to Community Fibre they'd need to provide a new ONT?
More importantly, would the Fibre cable that enters the home and connects to the ONT also need to be replaced from the Openreach installed one?
Cheers!

Post deleted by AstroflashTB

In reply to a post by AstroflashTB:

More importantly, would the Fibre cable that enters the home and connects to the ONT also need to be replaced from the Openreach installed one?
Cheers!

Not replaced, but a new fibre in addition to the existing fibre.

Their networks are 100% separate, only sharing some ducts and poles.
They each have their own fibres, ONT's and OLT's (the providers end of the fibre).

If you already have Openreach FTTP and then install CommunityFibre then CommunityFibre will leave the Openreach ONT and incoming fibre feed alone and install their own fibre and ONT.

Think of the Openreach ONT as your new master socket. It is intended to remain in place permanently. It stays with the property if the home owner/tenant moves out.
It certainly shouldn't be removed by another network provider, and vice versa.

In reply to a post by tdw42:

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

I'm assuming the master socket becomes useless once the ONT is installed since any phones are wired to the router, either directly if it's one with VoIP or via an adaptor (EG Grandstream 801/802)

Unless you have wired secondary phone sockets. Openreach seem to have abandoned fitting a voice reinjection faceplate which allow an ATA in the router, or separate, to be connected to the house wiring completely isolated from the external wire back to the exchange. There are articles on the web describing how to make a DIY version.

Thanks for the reply.

At present the unfiltered Cat5 goes direct to the router socket. The 3 phone sockets on the phone circuit are wired in parallel via CW1308 cable whch terminates at the master socket and is hardwired to the faceplate filter.

I think the best way would be to get the installer to put the ONT as close as possible to the current master socket and then as you suggest crimp an RJ45 onto the end of the Cat5 which should be possible. The last phone socket in the chain is near the router so disconnect the phone circuit at the master socket and then run a cable to the end socket in the chain via an ATA either internal to the router or separate Grandstream etc. Effectively it would send the phone signal the reverse way round.

Should work and wouldn't be too messy to achieve. When the house is redecorated I could think about installing Cat6 all the way through although it might be simpler to buy a DECT setup - Gigaset and Yealink seem to be good.

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

Should work and wouldn't be too messy to achieve. When the house is redecorated I could think about installing Cat6 all the way through although it might be simpler to buy a DECT setup - Gigaset and Yealink seem to be good.

I'm using a Gigaset N300AIP connected directly to the router. And for a few weeks before the fibre was installed it was connected to the BT master socket.

One of the nice features of the Gigaset N300 series is that you can continue to run it with an PSTN connection and several VoIP connections simultaneously.