2Gbps pre-registration open

At https://www.zen.co.uk/pre-register-full-fibre-max#pr...
Choice of eero 6 or eero Max 7.

Why eeros? They demand registration with Amazon to even get you online. Hopefully anyone signing up can use their own router.

I think it will be a tail-wagging-dog thing where ISPs feel they need Wi-Fi meshing / whole home answer that does not require any technical capability from users. Either that or cost per unit for routers with ports for > 1G and/or Wi-Fi 7.

The Fritz!boxes had a meshing option but you had to understand the feature and where to find it, especially if using multiple and needing to change the Internet "mode" on other units.

I think ISPs should be focusing on the Internet connection itself, but marketing and the increased line speeds are driving them to handle the LAN stuff as appliances since if the home Wi-Fi is under performing or having other issues the customer may still be complaining to the ISP.

Paradoxically none of that LAN stuff is a factor if you are a leased-line customer paying way more but with an SLA, there is a clear demarcation of responsibility.

One aspect I am not clear on is whether Eero offer the same standard remote management (TR-069) that Zen use with the Fritz!box as the latter makes it easy for the ISP to reconfigure to enable VoIP during the PSTN switchover for example.

Edited by prlzx (Sat 24-Aug-24 09:46:03)

In terms of whole-home stuff there's a split between companies that are large enough to develop something in-house (EE/BT, Sky, Vodafone, maybe VM) and people like Zen who aren't, so just sign deals with Eero.

The cost difference in someone like EE supplying you a Wi-Fi 7 router and what it's going to cost Zen (at least per-unit excluding development costs) is going to be massive, and I wonder what that means for the future. The days where BT would give you a basic single-band wireless N device that did nothing special and so the competing ISP bundling a Technicolor router didn't register as anything to worry about when comparing the offerings are definitely over.

I'm a bit out of the loop, been quite happy with my fritzbox on 900mbps. What is your preferred router that could handle 2gbps?
I hope they won't force "prosumers" into using kit they don't want.

In reply to a post by AndrewNi:

Why eeros?

Amazon are (must be) giving them a very good deal.

In reply to a post by Irby:

I'm a bit out of the loop, been quite happy with my fritzbox on 900mbps. What is your preferred router that could handle 2gbps?
I hope they won't force "prosumers" into using kit they don't want.

If you're happy with your present fritzbox then have a look at their latest offering.
https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-7690/

If you just want to route 2gbit then there are a good few that will do that.

My low energy Topton N100 box will do that but will take a hit with VPN or any CPU intensive plugins such as IDS. MikroTik/Unifi etc will have something at a reasonable price. Personally I wouldn't be using a mesh wifi as my router but can see why ISPs would offer them.

Most of the lower-priced consumer 2.5 Gbps routers only offer one 2.5 Gb port, with any extra ports being only 1 Gb. OK I suppose if you have lots of wireless devices clamouring for speed, but what about connecting one PC with a 2.5 Gb Ethernet port to 2.5 Gb broadband? If you want multiple 2.5 ports it gets expensive.

I am using a "mid price" one The GL.iNet GL-MT6000 (Flint2) its got 2 x 2.5G ports and 4 x 1G.
It runs a custom version of OpenWRT by default.

Quite a nice device lots of CPU and Memory for around £120

Thank you, that looks pretty reasonable.

In reply to a post by cjn:

Most of the lower-priced consumer 2.5 Gbps routers only offer one 2.5 Gb port, with any extra ports being only 1 Gb. OK I suppose if you have lots of wireless devices clamouring for speed, but what about connecting one PC with a 2.5 Gb Ethernet port to 2.5 Gb broadband? If you want multiple 2.5 ports it gets expensive.

The eero Max 7 that Zen will be offering with their 'premium' service has 2.5Gb and 2 10Gb ports. And the Asus RT-be88u, while three times the price of the other router mention in this thread, has 'lots' of ports, seven of them faster than 1Gb.

Well it will be interesting to see what the premium service costs. The basic option is no use to me.

I thought we might have known the cost by now to be honest!

In reply to a post by Irby:

I thought we might have known the cost by now to be honest!

They are obviously not going to say until they start taking orders.

Bit of a catch 22.

The Flint 2 really stands out amongst its competitors, this is the one I will choose.

Whatever the cost of the basic 2.5G with the eero 6, I see that their website mentions the Max 7 at £10/month. That's not bad compared with around £600 retail. If you leave during 5 years I wonder what happens about the router; perhaps that just gets folded back into their stock.

In 5 years even a high end router is being usurped by the latest tech, I imagine they might take it back in the first few years and sell them as reconditioned to a 3rd party retailer.

I agree the Max7 is not a bad price, IF that's the router you want. I expect many reading these pages will have other ideas what they want.

Edited by Irby (Wed 04-Sep-24 19:45:24)

Having read some more about the eero range, there is no way I'm giving Amazon my personal details or using a phone app just to be able to use and manage my router. Plenty of other choices. I wonder if Zen will discount the price (whatever that is) if you don't accept their <free> router.

In reply to a post by cjn:

Whatever the cost of the basic 2.5G with the eero 6, I see that their website mentions the Max 7 at £10/month. That's not bad compared with around £600 retail. If you leave during 5 years I wonder what happens about the router; perhaps that just gets folded back into their stock.

After five years I wouldn't expect it to be still current issue.
(Nearly the end of September and 2.5Gb still not launched. Still a few days to go, though. Vodafone and IDnet changed their speed ranges on City Fibre's site to offer max speeds of 2.2Gb and 1.8Gb respectively a few weeks ago but I haven't clicked through to see if they are actually taking orders.).

After five years I wouldn't expect it to be still current issue.
(Nearly the end of September and 2.5Gb still not launched. Still a few days to go, though. Vodafone and IDnet changed their speed ranges on City Fibre's site to offer max speeds of 2.2Gb and 1.8Gb respectively a few weeks ago but I haven't clicked through to see if they are actually taking orders.).

Agreed, but I was just equating 5years @ £10 pm with the £600 retail. Irrelevant for me, as I wouldn't consider either eero.
Some idea of when would be useful, also is everyone on CityFibre going to get XGS-PON or the less useful GPON?

In reply to a post by cjn:

also is everyone on CityFibre going to get XGS-PON or the less useful GPON?

My understanding is that new CF infrastructure is XGS-PON and the GPON infrastructure is being upgraded but how far they've got with upgrading I don't know..

still no news!

In reply to a post by Irby:

still no news!

Lol. I thought that too.

They relaunched the pre-registration on Facebook on 1 October but the website still says: Zen’s Full Fibre Max broadband launches in September 2024.
More than 40 FB comments on the subject.
It occurs to me to wonder if the reason for the delay is that the routers are still on the high seas.

From Facebook "We will only be offering full fibre max to new full fibre customers at first, but after it being available for some time we will then look to provide to existing full fibre customers "

Existing customers get to wait a bit longer.

In reply to a post by Irby:

From Facebook "We will only be offering full fibre max to new full fibre customers at first, but after it being available for some time we will then look to provide to existing full fibre customers "

Existing customers get to wait a bit longer.

I hadn't noticed that, but if that is the case why did they invite existing users to pre-register for it back in July?
(That's a rhetorical question. I don't expect you to be able to answer it.)

It's quite unlike ZeN.

In reply to a post by Irby:

From Facebook "We will only be offering full fibre max to new full fibre customers at first, but after it being available for some time we will then look to provide to existing full fibre customers "

Not good, reminds me of the bad old days of "New customers only"

I just checked Facebook and this is their answer to my message pointing out that we are now into October while the website still says launching in September:

We are currently reaching out to people who have signed up using the pre-register form and once we have gotten through the list we will start offering this publicly.
If you have not yet signed up please fill in your details and we'll be in touch

I must have been one of the first to pre-register, The email was received on 21 August.

Did they really say 'gotten'? 🤮

In reply to a post by Irby:

Did they really say 'gotten'? 🤮

Yes, they really did.
(Zen, on FB, are now 'reaching out' to Zen marketing on my behalf.)

Hah!
The issue seems to be, in my case, at least, that promotion didn't/doesn't explain that there might be restrictions on the offer.
Zen FB support have just replied:
Peter. Once the 2.5Gb service is available from City Fibre, it will be announced on our Website and Social Media channels.

So I was sent an email offering a service that they can't, at present, supply.

I was supplied with the TP-LInk EX820v along with the HX710 Pro extender. Have no idea on how good or bad these are in regards to its feature set etc, but they seem to be doing the job at the moment..

This is strange, as Zen have been using Fritz! boxes, and only now are they proposing eero 6 & 7 models. When did you upgrade to 2.5Gb and why did the TP-link kit get supplied?

Apologies as that was my mis-reading of the OP. I read it as wanting to know if there were any alternatives! My ISP isn't Zen (It's Brsk) and my 2Gbps service went live on 1st October and those models are what they are supplying.

I think you can buy the routers separately and I saw one advertised at £127.

Edited by Keith016377 (Mon 14-Oct-24 16:00:46)

OK, well thanks for the info, as it's an interesting alternative to Zen's unappealing (to me) offer.

Yayzi will give me a 2Gb GPON connection. Hmm
This may explain Zen's apparent reluctance to offer 2.5Gbs on CF: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/10/progre...

Until I can get an XGS-PON connection I'll wait, or look around when my 2-year contract is up. It looks like Aquiss can offer this, but I have to wait another 2 months.

One good thing about this dragging on, it's given me plenty of time to figure out if I really need the upgrade, and I don't.

In reply to a post by Irby:

One good thing about this dragging on, it's given me plenty of time to figure out if I really need the upgrade, and I don't.

I don't 'need' it but I'd like to have it.

In reply to a post by ParksidePeter:

Hah!
The issue seems to be, in my case, at least, that promotion didn't/doesn't explain that there might be restrictions on the offer.
Zen FB support have just replied:
Peter. Once the 2.5Gb service is available from City Fibre, it will be announced on our Website and Social Media channels.

So I was sent an email offering a service that they can't, at present, supply.

That would be odd, given months ago the CEO responded to a post I made asking if they will offer the Openreach 1.8Gbit service and he said soon.

That said, I never got the invite to pre-register so maybe this IS just for CityFibre which begs the question [censored] is going on with Openreach.

My personal suspicion is BT Wholesale don't want to provide it, which is suspect in itself given EE claim they can at my address.

In reply to a post by alexatkin:

In reply to a post by ParksidePeter:

Hah!
The issue seems to be, in my case, at least, that promotion didn't/doesn't explain that there might be restrictions on the offer.
Zen FB support have just replied:
Peter. Once the 2.5Gb service is available from City Fibre, it will be announced on our Website and Social Media channels.

So I was sent an email offering a service that they can't, at present, supply.

That would be odd, given months ago the CEO responded to a post I made asking if they will offer the Openreach 1.8Gbit service and he said soon.

That said, I never got the invite to pre-register so maybe this IS just for CityFibre which begs the question [censored] is going on with Openreach.

My personal suspicion is BT Wholesale don't want to provide it, which is suspect in itself given EE claim they can at my address.

My interpretation is that Zen 'are' offering OR 2.5Gb, hence the promotion, but notified CF customers in error, and didn't put in a system to say 'Thanks for taking an interest in our 2.5Gb fibre promotion, but but unfortunately we can't supply it to customers on the CF network at present.'
The invitation to pre-register linked to https://www.zen.co.uk/pre-register-full-fibre-max so you can pre-register without having been invited.

It's all a bit vague at present. OR are only promoting 1800/120 on their website. No obvious sign of symmetric 2.5G. It appears that Zen (CF) are only offering 2000/1000, unless and until CF roll out XGS-PON.

In reply to a post by cjn:

It's all a bit vague at present. OR are only promoting 1800/120 on their website. No obvious sign of symmetric 2.5G.

Only a 1G/1G symmetric service has been rumoured to be in the pipeline for Openreach:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/08/openre...

Due to launch in April 2025, OR have said customers will be able to "use their existing ONT" so it's GPON, not XGS-PON.

There's no symmetric 2.5G from Openreach anywhere on the visible horizon.

This is terrible from a marketing pov. Zen are usually so focused on messaging being correct/accurate. Even the 'power' users in here don't know [censored] is going on.

I really don't expect this from Zen.

Today I had a call from Zen but was unable to answer. They emailed a bit later:

Thanks for your interest in Zen you requested a call once the multi gig fibre was available to your address. If you have any questions or would like to join Zen don't hesitate to ask.

I'll be calling them tomorrow to find out what they've got available.

Well I called up and it wasn't anything special. 1.6gb down, 120up.
Told them I'd wait until openreach did something better.

When they say "faster uploads" they really mean 110->120 which is not really worth writing home about.

In fact it's 115->120, which is even less worth writing home about

Ref: OR wholesale FTTP Price list

I just tried the pre-registration link mentioned above - the confirmation page says Zen will contact when the service launches in Sept. Clearly things are not going to plan.

In reply to a post by ParksidePeter:

My interpretation is that Zen 'are' offering OR 2.5Gb, hence the promotion, but notified CF customers in error, and didn't put in a system to say 'Thanks for taking an interest in our 2.5Gb fibre promotion, but but unfortunately we can't supply it to customers on the CF network at present.'
The invitation to pre-register linked to https://www.zen.co.uk/pre-register-full-fibre-max so you can pre-register without having been invited.

If it helps at all, I have a 2.5Gb Openreach ONT (currently on the EE 1.8Gbps service) and on an ex-Lit Fibre CityFibre XGS-PON network where the likes of Yayzi are happy to offer 2.3Gbps. Zen's checker tops out at 900Mbps and the price and upload speed suggests it's Openreach.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In fact it's 115->120, which is even less worth writing home about

Ref: OR wholesale FTTP Price list

Its quite bizarre, as I'd think on the average PON they have plenty of capacity to at least offer 220Mbit up to make it more appealing.

The 1.6gbps Openreach product is now available to order on Zen's site. It's £65 (£10 more than the 900mbps product).

In reply to a post by Irby:

The 1.6gbps Openreach product is now available to order on Zen's site. It's £65 (£10 more than the 900mbps product).

But not, apparently, to those where City Fibre is an option.

Until CF and Zen get their act together and offer XGS-PON and symmetric 2.5G, I'll stick with 900/900 at £40/month.

In reply to a post by cjn:

Until CF and Zen get their act together and offer XGS-PON and symmetric 2.5G, I'll stick with 900/900 at £40/month.

Me too.

In reply to a post by ParksidePeter:

In reply to a post by Irby:

The 1.6gbps Openreach product is now available to order on Zen's site. It's £65 (£10 more than the 900mbps product).

But not, apparently, to those where City Fibre is an option.

Its not available to me on Openreach either. I'm guessing its only available to people where Zen have their own backhaul in the exchange.

In reply to a post by alexatkin:

In reply to a post by ParksidePeter:

In reply to a post by Irby:

The 1.6gbps Openreach product is now available to order on Zen's site. It's £65 (£10 more than the 900mbps product).

But not, apparently, to those where City Fibre is an option.

Its not available to me on Openreach either. I'm guessing its only available to people where Zen have their own backhaul in the exchange.

Bit of thread necromancy there

Correct. Need own backhaul and need to have a 10G cablelink to your OLT: quite a few OLTs that were being used for FTTC and had some FTTP placed on them after they have a gigabit only and use BT Enterprise for 900 Mbit products. No BT Enterprise 1.6 Gb WBC/WMBC product so can't provide that.

A symmetrical 2.3G product based on CF's 2.5 Gbit product is available in CF areas.