Zen Internet - all mouth and no trousers?

I’ve browsed the thinkbroadband site and forums for years as a source of information, but this is my first post seeking comments and advice. I’m afraid the narrative is a bit lengthy.

We live in an area where full fibre FTTP is not yet available, and alternative fibre/cable providers are not operating. So all broadband providers apparently depend on the local OpenReach network and infrastructure.

We have been Plusnet customers for almost 20 years, for broadband and in recent years also our landline phone. Our latest contract with them ended on 23 December. With the prospect of cessation of all landline phone service within the next year or so, we concluded it was time to look at our options – both for broadband and phone.

For broadband, part-fibre (FTTC) was on offer from various providers including Plusnet. But Plusnet warned us that an FTTC contract would mean loss of the landline phone – and they do not offer a digital voice (VOIP) service. We wished to retain our landline number and ideally, arrange a contract which included FTTC broadband and a digital voice service with our existing phone number.

BT Openreach can provide both services, as do others. Many providers offer fixed term contracts (18 or 24 months) but with built in annual price increases of inflation plus 3.9%. A few, including Zen, offer both services but with no in-contract price increase. So we opted to place an order with Zen, encouraged by their generally good and long established reputation for quality service.

The experience has been a catalogue of failures and disasters. It’s not over yet. But I’d welcome comments.

The order was placed on 4 December. Zen said they needed just 3-4 days advance notice to set the changeover date. When the order was placed, we agreed to a switch date of 18 December: two weeks notice, with the switch just a few days before expiry of our Plusnet contract. The transfer was supposedly to be done under the Ofcom OneTouch Switch process, managed and coordinated entirely by Zen.

The 18 Dec date was confirmed by emails both from Zen and from Openreach (OR). Ahead of that Zen delivered a new router, which was successfully connected at the house and tested (their installation instructions were inaccurate, but that’s a separate and minor issue). So we disconnected the Plusnet router.

Failure #1. 18 December came and went. By the end of the day, and after several phone conversations with Zen, no switch, and no internet connection. In phone calls and emails the following morning, Zen said that OR engineers had encountered a problem “at the cabinet” and had requested two more days to fix it. We agreed.

Failure #2. By the end of 20 December, two days later, still no internet connection. And several email messages and phone advice from Zen that the switch would have to be rescheduled for 9 January. Some messages were contradictory: one stating that an engineer visit to the premises would be needed was subsequently overtaken by a message saying no such visit would be needed.
Failure #3. Meanwhile, our landline phone had gone dead. This became a whole separate problem with Zen and Plusnet each blaming each other. Despite the One Touch Switch rules, Zen said I should take this up with Plusnet directly. Eventually I did so, to be told that Plusnet had ceased the service on 18 Dec, having been told by Zen that was the switch date. Apparently when Zen did inform Plusnet – after 18 Dec – of the delayed switch, Plusnet were unable (or not permitted) to reinstate the landline phone service. We remain without a landline phone and have asked Zen to make sure that the number is retained/recovered so that it can be used for the VOIP service when we actually have an internet connection again. That window for re-use of the phone number apparently only lasts 30 days (ie to 18 Jan).

Failure #4. We waited the further two weeks until 9 January (yesterday). On 30 Dec I took the precaution of formally emailing Zen to instruct them to check with OR well ahead of the new 9 January switch date that the engineering problem had been fixed. I do not know if Zen did so. But they confirmed that the switch was firmly scheduled for the morning of 9 Jan, and quoted a job reference number. Well well, 9 January came and went. No switch, no internet connection.
Zen claimed in successive phone calls that they were awaiting notification from Openreach of the switch activation going live, at which point the Zen internet connection would automatically be made. This was supposed to happen by the end of the day,. They would check the next morning.

Well, today, 10 Jan, no surprise: still no internet connection. Over a month from placing the order, three weeks since the original switch date, three postponements/delays and three failures to deliver. The Zen customer service people have been unfailingly polite and profusely apologetic. But they seem incapable of actually taking any practical action, beyond repeated offers to chase Openreach. Totally ineffective. All mouth and no trousers.

It looks as if we have reached the end of the road. This situation is both unsustainable and unacceptable. I have to decide on next steps.

- do I continue this saga and simply continue pressing Zen? They are already well into delivery delay and failure territory, and obliged to pay compensation under Ofcom rules for the delay. But that is by way of credit when …. or indeed if … I actually have an active service with Zen. Ans I am no longer confident that they will ever deliver.

- do I pull the plug immediately and seek to retain and continue my internet service with Plusnet (which, claim Zen, will not actually be terminated until the new Zen service goes live)? That leaves the landline phone service in limbo, but that’s less critical than ensuring internet access.

- do I raise a formal complaint with Ofcom and/or CISAS? I have already registered my concerns – very politely – with Zen’s front line customer service people, and there is a full audit trail of some 20 emails and as many phone calls.

Unsurprisingly, I am less than impressed. Has Zen lost the plot?

Edited by br1anstorm (Fri 10-Jan-25 12:33:17)

I feel your frustrations and am amazed you have stayed so polite.

I can not offer useful advice on how to resolve the issue, just a guess from me of what happened. I would suggest you would of had the same issue no matter which ISP you had gone with, they are all at the mercy of BTOR.
All any ISP can do is ask BTOR for updates!

It sounds like you have switched from a VDSL Service to FTTC.

VDSL would of (most lickley) have been a "single" long copper wire from your house to the exchange.

FTTC would be the same copper wire to the local "Copper cab" then a new copper link to the matching "Fibre cab" and Fibre from there to the exchange, sometimes the Fibre and copper cabs are the same one but often not.
It sounds to me like the issue was between the two cabs, one might of hoped if this was the case the OR engineer would of just left you connected to the old copper vdsl line but if you dont have a dile tone I would suggest they did not.

Please ensure you get your £6.10/day from Zen in compensation for the delayed activation of their service

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/servic...

Thanks, @RichTea23 for that reply (and to @jpm for the reminder about compensation.

It has been hard to remain patient and polite. But there seems little point in getting angry with Zen, who appear to have no leverage with BTOR. And I have no direct engagement with BTOR.

Just to clarify and confirm, I was aiming and expecting to switch from an ADSL(or VDSL?) broadband service with Plusnet to an FTTC service with Zen.

The guesswork as to possible causes of the delay and problems is interesting. But that's for BTOR, not for me, to deal with. They have provided no information or explanation, certainly not to me nor, it seems, to Zen who are supposedly in the driving seat.

Whatever the issue, BTOR have had since 4 December to tackle it. They agreed and confirmed a changeover date of 18 Dec. They then asked for 2 days postponement, then three weeks. The latest update message from Zen to me today says that they won't be doing anything until next week, and still can't give any assurance of completion of whatever work is required.

They have effectively had a month to deal with this. It evidently doesn't involve digging up roads or laying new lines to the premises. Its a simple switch on the existing network. If I had stayed with Plusnet and agreed a new (FTTC) contract with them, it would have been done immediately and seamlessly.

Compensation is of little comfort if I have no internet service, and it looks as if this is normally only paid by credit against the monthly charges for an active service contract. But I don't even have a service from Zen... and I have already paid £53 in advance (£15 transfer fee - for what? - plus first monthly payment for broadband and digital voice service). This hasn't been delivered and looks increasingly unlikely to happen.

So sadly I think it has to be time to call Game Over, pull the plug, launch a formal complaint of non-delivery and look at alternatives. Very depressing that it has come to this. But a clear warning about the reliability and quality of the assurance and commitments I was given.

The ‘problem’ that all ISPs have is that BTOR provides the wires and BT Wholesale (BTW) undertakes the work needed to set up the new/transferred connection. BTW is NOT regulated by OFCom as it is deemed to be a wholesaler.

A couple of months ago, BTW placed a cease order on my line following a switching system firmware upgrade. My ISP could do absolutely nothing other than contact its BTW Account Manager and wait for updates. It took a week for BTW to reconfigure my connection.

Some ISPs (such as AAISP) claim that they have a way of getting the network provider to do things that other ISPs cannot. I have no idea whether these claims are true.

Thanks, @GoWest, every comment and fragment of information helps in understanding the picture.

Bad enough that I thought there were just four players in the game - myself, Plusnet, Zen and OpenReach. The fact that there are apparently five - BTW as well as BTOR - just adds another link in the chain and even more opportunity to pass the buck.

It may be idealistic or unrealistic, but one would hope for more joined-upness, better co-ordination and full transparency. Still too much vagueness and evasion. The One Touch Switch process appeared to address that issue. But it clearly isn't adequate or effective. A clear case for Ofcom to get a better grip.

OFCom cannot get a better grip of wholesalers: it would require Government legislation for it to get regulatory oversight.

Compensation for the loss of broadband service is still optional. Many ISPs are not signed up to the scheme.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/servic...

Under the new OTS Scheme, the gaining supplier is responsible for managing the switch. If you look at the compensation rules, the switch can be cancelled if service cannot be provided/restired after a certain amount of time.

Edited by GoWest (Fri 10-Jan-25 16:36:00)

Thanks, @GoWest.

Zen are signed up to the OTS process (though they have sometimes argued that it's for me, not them, to liaise with Plusnet, my previous provider).

And they are signed up to the compensation scheme. Their customer service team with whom I've had numerous conversations (and who are as fed up as I am with BTOR prevarication and delay) have volunteered the advice that compensation will be payable "automatically" for delay in delivery.

But they didn't say that if the switch was delayed beyond a certain period, cancellation was an option. I'll search for the detailed guidance....

It is in the link that I provided:

‘Providers can put a cap on the amount of compensation they pay out. After 30 days of an automatic compensation payment occurring, they can serve a cease notice to let you know that automatic compensation payments would stop after a further 30 days.’

Many thanks again, @GoWest.

As I read that quote, it gives the provider the right to decide after 30 days of automatic payment to cease paying compensation after a further 30 days (ie 60 days from the original confirmed delivery date).

I don't see that as giving the customer (ie me) any right or option to withdraw or cancel - without penalty - and/or to be refunded if the provider fails to fulfill the agreed contract within a specified period, whether that be 30 days or 60.