Giving Plusnet a Try!

After supporting & defending Post Office Broadband & Home Phone for 16 months, I have had enough of their Mail server rejecting passwords every evening for all of that time, along with still not offering anytime calls on the combined package. I could not quite bring myself to commit to 18 months of BT prices again, so thought Plusnet Extra with Home phone was worth a whirl as there is no Broadband tie-in, though I am doubtful the 60GB will suffice in this world of the iPlayer and our love of Wi-Fi Internet Radio.

In reply to a post by m0aur:

so thought Plusnet Extra with Home phone was worth a whirl

Got Extra, Phones and Anytime package (and a couple of add-ons). All for £30, give or take 50p.

Cont···
I was given a switchover date of the 26th (Tomorrow) via Email, and a date of the 25th (Today) by text. So today, my Post Office broadband was switched off with no sign of the Plusnet service. I found the Plusnet customer service phone service poor compared to the Post Office. A long time on hold with silence, so not knowing if still connected.
Having said that, when I got through, a very helpful bod prodded his keyboard & switched on my service immediately.
One bonus over the Post Office 8MB service, is that I am now connecting to my exchange at 12451kbps, which may even improve once the line settles after several router restarts today.
[IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/1449711402.png[/IMG]
http://speed.io/pics/4582/9514/speed.io.png

Edited by deleted (Thu 25-Aug-11 18:38:09)

In reply to a post by camieabz:

In reply to a post by m0aur:

so thought Plusnet Extra with Home phone was worth a whirl

Got Extra, Phones and Anytime package (and a couple of add-ons). All for £30, give or take 50p.

Same here, but it will be 10 days before our phone calls & line switch to PN anytime.

Edited by deleted (Thu 25-Aug-11 13:12:28)

In reply to a post by m0aur:

I found the Plusnet customer service phone service poor compared to the Post Office. Along time on hold with silence, so not knowing if still connected.

Does this mean we no longer get rubbish music and intermittent messages saying why don't you try the on line help assistance and "your call is important to us" - I made this last bit up as I don't think Plusnet actually say that

"your call is important to us" - I made this last bit up as I don't think Plusnet actually say that

Maybe your're more right than you think

Well ··· The nightmare of the changover to Plusnet continues. After the muddle of switching off the PO BB and no PN initially, we found we could not receive any phone calls. After a lot of checking & swapping of phone gear, a call to 17070 shows my line is registering a totally different phone number. Plusnet were no help on the phone as they don't handle the phone till the 9th of September. The so called 24/7 customer services at the PO have gone home for the day. WHAT a nightmare. Surely the �Super� PN customer services could have contacted BTW or PO phones to do something. So, no incoming calls, wrong number and regretting the whole idea.

Edited by deleted (Thu 25-Aug-11 21:26:36)

Hang on a sec.

In reply to a post by m0aur:

Plusnet were no help on the phone as they don't handle the phone till the 9th of September. Surely the �Super� PN customer services could have contacted BTW or PO phones to do something.

If they don't get billing responsibilities for the line until then, I imagine they will not be your point of contact for phone issues until then.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

Hang on a sec.

In reply to a post by m0aur:

Plusnet were no help on the phone as they don't handle the phone till the 9th of September. Surely the �Super� PN customer services could have contacted BTW or PO phones to do something.

If they don't get billing responsibilities for the line until then, I imagine they will not be your point of contact for phone issues until then.

Yes, I realise all that. But, the engineers that messed up the job of the changeover in the exchange, were working for Plusnet. If I was a Plusnet manager, I would demand they put the mistake right, regardless of phone supplier. It's called customer service. After all, I could drop the phone changeover and hop out of the whole nightmare.

Edited by deleted (Thu 25-Aug-11 21:43:38)

If it's their mistake, I agree completely. Might be worth seeing if a PN rep can cast some light on this one.

In reply to a post by camieabz:

If it's their mistake, I agree completely. Might be worth seeing if a PN rep can cast some light on this one.

That is exactly what I hoped posting here would bring about, but they seem to be keeping their heads down at the moment. I can get nowhere with either company and cannot take calls from those that want to contact us. The only plus at the moment, is the chap whose number we now have. He ended up here when trying to phone his home tonight. He is now armed with all details, so may get things moving via his supplier.

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Aug-11 00:10:54)

Hi there,

I'm afraid we only tend to be around in the forums during office hours. If you're able to PM a username or ticket ID I'll happily take a look at things and see if I can find out what's happening.

In reply to a post by orbrey:

Hi there,

I'm afraid we only tend to be around in the forums during office hours. If you're able to PM a username or ticket ID I'll happily take a look at things and see if I can find out what's happening.

Many thanks Matthew. PM sent. Also about to try and get some sense from the PO again!

Hi there,

I can see we've got a transfer order going through but it's on the number on your account - can't find any records showing on the number that you seem to have now, though if it's not the post office there's a chance that something could have happened with the exchange wiring. If you let us know what you find out from the post office (and also the original owner of the number) we'll do some chasing from here as well, though everything on the order looks fine as things stand. It's still due for the 9th.

Hope that helps,

In reply to a post by orbrey:

Hi there,

I can see we've got a transfer order going through but it's on the number on your account - can't find any records showing on the number that you seem to have now, though if it's not the post office there's a chance that something could have happened with the exchange wiring. If you let us know what you find out from the post office (and also the original owner of the number) we'll do some chasing from here as well, though everything on the order looks fine as things stand. It's still due for the 9th.

Hope that helps,

Hi Matthew Phoned PO, gave details. Told to phone back in 10 minutes after a line test & whoever I got back to would be up to speed, though the idiot seemed to think a number change was part of the changeover, even though it's not till the 9th Sep for phone. Got back to an ignorant rude woman, who said it was NOTHING to do with them and All Plusnets fault. She then put the phone down on me, when I stated they were still my point of contact for phone services. And to think I thought BT too pricy to return to. Total nightmare.

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Aug-11 12:53:49)

Name address & numbers of those that own the number we are hooked up to passed on. They now have a dead line, but have BT chasing it.
@Matthew ···Thanks, you are my only point of contact. Wonderful response compared to what I have endured with the Post Office. Let's hope I can manage on 60GB

Edited by deleted (Fri 26-Aug-11 10:01:14)

The working day is nearly over and still looking at crossed phone lines. It does not seem like the engineers that messed up have been made to jump through many hoops today, so looks like no phone till after the bank holiday.
On the brighter side of life, my Plusnet Broadband is starting to settle in now. I have gained another couple of MB download speed within 24 hours. About 9.4mb now, much better than the 6.5 on the PO 8MB service.

The nightmare of changeoer continues and I am now forced to sit in the village library to post.
After the ignorance of the Post Office, the very heplful PN team actually resulted in an engeneer to visit our exchange ans sort what he described as a big birdsnest of wires. We are now connected to the correct number, but now have no broadband, as the service ID is now wrong. PN cannot re-order re-installation of BB till they receive the Openreach engineers report. What a nightmare..
I still feel thet the Post Office are at fault somewhere along the line, as phone services are no longer showing on my PO account, while the switched broadband is.

Edited by deleted (Tue 30-Aug-11 15:57:45)

Re Ticket Number 46062598. Well ··· It only took 7 full days to switch to PN and actually get it running. Just been phoned by the engineer who stated that my service was hooked to totally wrong exchange equipment, due to wrong build instructions from PN.
For those that state PN cannot get involved with my line, they did and I am very grateful after the ignorance I suffered from the Post Office. Nonetheless, I have been and still am, very close to cancelling the phone switch and jumping back to BT, which would be a pity, as despite this nightmare I like the PN customer service, but am still very wary of 60GB not being enough but being tied to a long PN phone contract. For now, I have 150 Emails to check out from the last 2 days.

Edited by deleted (Thu 01-Sep-11 10:47:50)

"long PN phone contract"?

Unless it's hidden somewhere in the T & Cs/FAQs, it is at worst monthly. See this page re phone/broadband bundles, "No annual contract".

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

"long PN phone contract"?

Unless it's hidden somewhere in the T & Cs/FAQs, it is at worst monthly. See this page re phone/broadband bundles, "No annual contract".

Thanks. from what I had gleaned prior to signup, there was a 12 month tie-in for the phone contract. I paid a £25 connection fee as you do with many other that BT & PO, plus use my own router to avoid a long BB contract. I did not think that that also applied to the line and call side of the package. If it does, I will be happier with giving the 60GB a whirl.
I was looking here http://www.plus.net/support/customer_service/billing... but probably got the wrong end of the 12 month stick!

Edited by deleted (Thu 01-Sep-11 11:54:00)

That link is a bit unclear, as it doesn't distinguish re phone and broadband. I suggest you check it out and let us know, for future reference .

I'm not 100% sure, but I think you could have gotten away with deferring the £25 and not paying up front.

I'm with Plusnet and my account details show this charge, but it only comes into effect if I leave within the contract period - so apparently nothing to lose if deferred (I have a new contract as I just moved to FTTC).

That reminds me, don't post often but must update my sig

Edited by deleted (Thu 01-Sep-11 12:05:47)

In reply to a post by cjbell68:

I'm not 100% sure, but I think you could have gotten away with deferring the £25 and not paying up front.

I'm with Plusnet and my account details show this charge, but it only comes into effect if I leave within the contract period - so apparently nothing to lose if deferred (I have a new contract as I just moved to FTTC).

That reminds me, don't post often but must update my sig

Yes, I have that on my account, it is a Cessation charge which is only charged should there be a cease on the line. What I was talking about, is the £25 Broadband connection charge, which was taken from my credit card before PN would accept the order.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That link is a bit unclear, as it doesn't distinguish re phone and broadband. I suggest you check it out and let us know, for future reference .

With a little luck, the PN bods may drop in and clarify line and phone contract when no router taken and £25 connection charge paid.

Ah I see - I confused the two; must be linekd to the line take-on from the PO.

In reply to a post by m0aur:

With a little luck, the PN bods may drop in and clarify line and phone contract when no router taken and £25 connection charge paid.

Have highlighted it on the PN forum http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php

In reply to a post by reserved:

In reply to a post by m0aur:

With a little luck, the PN bods may drop in and clarify line and phone contract when no router taken and £25 connection charge paid.

Have highlighted it on the PN forum http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php

Thanks, but that is just a link to the forum index page. I have looked through the obvious threads and drawn a blank. A thread link would have been some help.

You can see the 'preferred' ISP logo for sigs here.

Howzatlook?!

In reply to a post by m0aur:

In reply to a post by reserved:

In reply to a post by m0aur:

With a little luck, the PN bods may drop in and clarify line and phone contract when no router taken and £25 connection charge paid.

Have highlighted it on the PN forum http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php

Thanks, but that is just a link to the forum index page. I have looked through the obvious threads and drawn a blank. A thread link would have been some help.

My error, the link didn't appear in my original post, have ammended it!

http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,9832...

Not bad.

I might consider to dump BT line rental in December to switch over to Plusnet Line Rental along with my broadband with Plusnet. I had to wait for BT letter to tell me of increasing in their line rental price and break my promise of fixed prices for 12 months, so I can leave BT to join Plusnet.

Wasn't emboldened though, yours looked better

Anyway, thanks for that - won't make any more OT posts!

Edited by deleted (Thu 01-Sep-11 16:23:02)

In reply to a post by reserved:

In reply to a post by m0aur:

In reply to a post by reserved:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

Have highlighted it on the PN forum http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php

Thanks, but that is just a link to the forum index page. I have looked through the obvious threads and drawn a blank. A thread link would have been some help.

My error, the link didn't appear in my original post, have ammended it!

http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,9832...

Call me stupid if you like, but I have just been on another wild goose chase and still not got to the bottom of line rental tie-in.

In reply to a post by cjbell68:

I'm not 100% sure, but I think you could have gotten away with deferring the £25 and not paying up front.

I'm with Plusnet and my account details show this charge, but it only comes into effect if I leave within the contract period - so apparently nothing to lose if deferred (I have a new contract as I just moved to FTTC).

That reminds me, don't post often but must update my sig

For those that think the £25 I had to pay was for line transfer, here is a snap from my a/c page showing PN now charge £25 for activating their broadband. http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/88/plussnetsetup.jpg As I said earlier, that and caller display charges is the way the cheapies claw some cash back.
I suppose it was a bargain really, as they spent a whole week bu**ering up my line, number & BB!

Edited by deleted (Thu 01-Sep-11 17:00:39)

I'd query it with them, particularly given the issues you had with the changeover.

I would have thought they'd waive the ADSL setup fee as you're taking it along with the line rental at the same time?

Hi m0aur,

I'm picking this up whilst Matt is taking some well deserved annual leave.

To clarify our phone packages are on a 30 day rolling contract any way so paying the £25 upfront means that you can opt out of a longer contract for broadband.

I can't refund that fee but I am shocked if you've not been offered a good will gesture so I will go and check your account re that and will make sure we give one to you.

I just wanted to add that I'm horrified to hear about the kind of experience you say you've had when contacting support so I will be looking deeper into what happened there to make sure training or feedback is given to the agents you dealt with as appropriate.

Adam.

In reply to a post by thatadamwalker:

Hi m0aur,

I'm picking this up whilst Matt is taking some well deserved annual leave.

To clarify our phone packages are on a 30 day rolling contract any way so paying the £25 upfront means that you can opt out of a longer contract for broadband.

I can't refund that fee but I am shocked if you've not been offered a good will gesture so I will go and check your account re that and will make sure we give one to you.

I just wanted to add that I'm horrified to hear about the kind of experience you say you've had when contacting support so I will be looking deeper into what happened there to make sure training or feedback is given to the agents you dealt with as appropriate.

Adam.

Thanks Adam,
I was just making the point that the charge was for BB connection and not line changover. I am glad there is no tie-in, I did all I could to make it that way, though I would like to manage on the 60GB peak and the good customer service I have found with PN, but it will be hard with the iPlayer, Skyplayer, Internet Radio and all the on-demand there is.
Matt deserves a rest, he was good enough to get involved prior to line take-up when I was faced with total ignorance from the Post Office.
It is a job to know what really went wrong. PO blames PN. I do know we were physically connected to the wrong equipment in our exchange, and of course, Openreach who many of us are bundled to regardless of supplier, are saying it could be incorrect �Build� instructions from PN. The bottom line is, I am glad as a full time carer for my blind & severely disabled wife just to be back online, as most of our life is conducted that way.
I have been treated quite well by PN customer support compared to the PO, though the chap I spoke to yesterday did not seem to relate to the wrong service ID on my line, after being given the correct one the day before by someone else. Go easy on them, they are better than most!

Edited by deleted (Thu 01-Sep-11 17:47:29)

In reply to a post by reserved:

In reply to a post by m0aur:

In reply to a post by reserved:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

Have highlighted it on the PN forum http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php

Thanks, but that is just a link to the forum index page. I have looked through the obvious threads and drawn a blank. A thread link would have been some help.

My error, the link didn't appear in my original post, have ammended it!

http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,9832...

Hope Adam sorts it out for you

Plusnet is really turning out to be the strangest experience of all the ISP's I have suffered. The BT speedtest site is now reporting an illegal IP Profile of 11538 on my line http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/102/btspeedtest2.jpg And just to put the icing on a surreal 10 days, the Thinkbroadband speedtest is this morning reporting my ISP as Madasafish ???
Edit:- The latest icing on the nightmare, is that my new Plusnet email address cannot be used to update my Ebay account email. This is because despite several attempts, the Plusnet mail server refuses to forward the mail with the confirmation link, this is despite the �A change has been made� email being sent OK to my PO address, so there seems a Ebay Plusnet clash. I should add, there was no problem with the Plusnet email address change on my PayPal account. The result was tempory lock out from my Ebay account I have now had to switch to a Live dot com mail address to get access. To think my main reason for leaving the post office was their mail server being down most evenings. I now read this has been a problem with PN for years. More per month to lose unlimited BB and all in the search for a good service. I really cannot see that I can live with this

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Sep-11 12:44:21)

It's not an illegal profile, there is a new profiling system for ADSL2+ which is much more granular. As for Madasafish, the speed tester can't tell the difference between Plusnet and MAAF as they share the same infrastructure, so that's not important. Have you told support about your email problems? I haven't used ISP mail servers for years so can't comment myself.

As kasg says re both the IP Profile and ISP-independent email.

You could even go back to the Post Office .

In reply to a post by kasg:

It's not an illegal profile, there is a new profiling system for ADSL2+ which is much more granular. As for Madasafish, the speed tester can't tell the difference between Plusnet and MAAF as they share the same infrastructure, so that's not important. Have you told support about your email problems? I haven't used ISP mail servers for years so can't comment myself.

Thanks for clarifying the ADSL2+ profiling system. I was unaware of it and have not seen it mentioned on the likes of the KITZ site. http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm which is where I was told my profile was �Invalid�.
Other than as disposable addresses, I usually keep away from the intrusive likes of Hotmail a Gmail. Rightly or wrongly, I feel ISP mail may be a little more secure for the likes of online banking etc, but I am tempted to use it more to ease the pain of dozens of address changes at change of ISP.

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Sep-11 15:36:52)

Read the link I gave you about email.

Nobody uses ISP email any more. Start using a webmail service like gmail.

That may be true for you and many of those you interact with, but as an absolute statement I have to disagree. The vast majority of those I know use the email from their ISP, it's clear from my contacts list.

Old folks eh?

They don't know any better. It's our job to educate them.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Nobody uses ISP email any more. Start using a webmail service like gmail.

To make a sweeping statement like that is idiotic. Furthermore, i will not be told what I can and cannot do just because Plusnet Email has problems.

Do you enjoy causing problems for yourself?

Clearly you haven't learned your lesson after two email failures.

Another arrogant statement. Whose job is to educate me? I've only been in IT for nearly 50 years and using email for 30 years. Maybe that's not long enough compared to you.

I was right about the age issue. It's time to modernise and catch up gramps!

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Do you enjoy causing problems for yourself?

Clearly you haven't learned your lesson after two email failures.

No, but I enjoy having a go at forum oiks who think they can dictate how people live their lives.
As for my lesson, it was well and truly learned years ago. After suffering many supposed �Value� phone and Internet providers, there is not one that has matched BT. I know they are expensive, but as the old saying goes, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Helpful Customer services are no good if the system does'nt work. Every time,the �We're a pound cheaper than BT� is always cancelled by connection charges, disconnection charges, caller display charges and restricted services. Fear not, the lesson is learned.

Oh dear, the arrogance of someone who thinks their way of working is the only correct one.

What did you expect after announcing your migration to another ISP due to email issues and then complaining again about an entirely email new issue? You were asking for it.

The statement regarding BT is rather LOL-worthy. An 18 month contract with an ISP does not represent quality. Go with Zen if you want a quality ISP.

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

Another arrogant statement. Whose job is to educate me? I've only been in IT for nearly 50 years and using email for 30 years. Maybe that's not long enough compared to you.

Don't worry about him, that's the sort of ignorance that runs the streets these days, though nothing a good slap can't correct.

Tell me how ISP email is superior to 3rd party webmail.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

What did you expect after announcing your migration to another ISP due to email issues and then complaining again about an entirely email new issue? You were asking for it.

The statement regarding BT is rather LOL-worthy. An 18 month contract with an ISP does not represent quality. Go with Zen if you want a quality ISP.

What a load of old bol**cks, the 18 month tie-in not representing quality [censored] only applies to those who don't intend having a phone for the next 18 months.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Tell me how ISP email is superior to 3rd party webmail.
[/quote
Well for a start numbskull, you don't have copies on your machine when things go tits-up.

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Sep-11 17:17:22)

#1 They don't believe in their service. Quality ISPs have 1-3 month(s) contracts.
#2 Broadband is moving fast. Signing an 18 month contract is suicidal.

Of course you can. Plenty of webmail providers support POP3/SMTP & IMAP.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

#1 They don't believe in their service. Quality ISPs have 1-3 month(s) contracts.

Length of contract has nothing to do with quality of service, but plenty to do with bias.

#2 Signing an 18 month contract is suicidal.

So is being trappy in my manor!

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Of course you can. Plenty of webmail providers support POP3/SMTP & IMAP.

Of course they do, and plenty don't ··· But that doesn't mean I am going to be told what to do by a halfwit.

Why not offer a 1 month contract if the service is awesome? Why prevent customers from leaving if they're unhappy?

One would probably avoid a webmail provider without POP3/SMTP & IMAP. One has plenty of choice with webmail but not with ISP email.

Define superior, especially in the context of what the user actually wants.

Indeed, met them many times through the years in one guise or another.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Why not offer a 1 month contract if the service is awesome? Why prevent customers from leaving if they're unhappy?

As I said, you have to have a line somewhere, so what the hell does length of contract really mean, surely a service that just works is what we really want, and so far, I sadly have not found that outside the expense of BT.

You can't tell me why a person should use ISP email instead of web?

Zen just works (1 month contract).
IDNet just works (1 month contract).
Be* just works (3 month contract).

The service is good and the user is free to leave if they're unhappy.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

One would probably avoid a webmail provider without POP3/SMTP & IMAP. One has plenty of choice with webmail but not with ISP email.

I would guess that the majority of email is picked up via static desktop machines. After us infirm coffin-dodgers don't all waltz around with an iDiotPhone/Pad. Most of us still communicate via skip & CW on our home-brewed 400W Amateur Radio transceiver.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

You can't tell me why a person should use ISP email instead of web?

Well I can! ··· Like most things I do ···BECAUSE I CAN and I pay for it. If it's unusable [censored] of no use to man or beast, then surely a reduction in my subscription is in order.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Nobody uses ISP email any more. Start using a webmail service like gmail.

Hmmm, let me think ...

Gmail = Google = cookies = tracking err, no thanks.

In reply to a post by MadMan:

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Nobody uses ISP email any more. Start using a webmail service like gmail.

Hmmm, let me think ...

Gmail = Google = cookies = tracking err, no thanks.

Exactly ···Would you trust a company that sneaked into your network with their streetview cars?

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Tell me how ISP email is superior to 3rd party webmail.

Webmail is a total PITA when used in isolation.

As an additional feature allied to either POP3 with for example 30 days retention, or IMAP, both with local security copying, it is occasionally useful.

As for the idea of letting google or Microsoft store all your emails for ever, even after you delete them, ....

You refer to many here as "gramps". Perhaps growing out of naivety and trust in large corporations is something you will do in time.

In reply to a post by m0aur:

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

Another arrogant statement. Whose job is to educate me? I've only been in IT for nearly 50 years and using email for 30 years. Maybe that's not long enough compared to you.

Don't worry about him, that's the sort of ignorance that runs the streets these days, though nothing a good slap can't correct.

He's certainly being very arrogant, and talking rot with his universal solution, but I think it certain that everyone posting in this thread would recommend against ISP-based email. So he does have one thing right.

A personal domain that is yours for ever costs £3 per year or less, and an email hosting service to go with it a few pounds a year. You are talking pence per month. Both are easily migrated just like an ISP if you find deteriorating service, but your email address never changes.

ISP email is basically a hangover from the days when there was not much else available. It is frequently unreliable, and makes ISP migration unnecessarily difficult. (The latter being another reason ISPs supply it). Both of which you have found yourself. Life has enough hassle without that.

I don't trust Google at all, plus their servers are in the states, & I don't trust the states either.

The only thing of Googles that I use is Google Earth.

I reject all their cookies, & Kaspersky rejects all their adverts by default, inclueding here.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by m0aur:

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

Another arrogant statement. Whose job is to educate me? I've only been in IT for nearly 50 years and using email for 30 years. Maybe that's not long enough compared to you.

Don't worry about him, that's the sort of ignorance that runs the streets these days, though nothing a good slap can't correct.

He's certainly being very arrogant, and talking rot with his universal solution, but I think it certain that everyone posting in this thread would recommend against ISP-based email. So he does have one thing right.

A personal domain that is yours for ever costs £3 per year or less, and an email hosting service to go with it a few pounds a year. You are talking pence per month. Both are easily migrated just like an ISP if you find deteriorating service, but your email address never changes.

ISP email is basically a hangover from the days when there was not much else available. It is frequently unreliable, and makes ISP migration unnecessarily difficult. (The latter being another reason ISPs supply it). Both of which you have found yourself. Life has enough hassle without that.

The above just goes to show, that any argument will be listened to if put across in a polite and rational manner.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Tell me how ISP email is superior to 3rd party webmail.

Webmail is a total PITA when used in isolation.

As an additional feature allied to either POP3 with for example 30 days retention, or IMAP, both with local security copying, it is occasionally useful.

As for the idea of letting google or Microsoft store all your emails for ever, even after you delete them, ....

You refer to many here as "gramps". Perhaps growing out of naivety and trust in large corporations is something you will do in time.

I gave up trusting large corporations, when Microsoft guessed the expiry date of my new credit card and stole another years subscription to Hotmail, even though the premium service was unwanted as not useable in the new OS.

Oh dear the nasty Google Mail man will coma and kidnap me or do something dastardly to me in the night. By the way cookise are easily disposed of and I have never had any adverts or other nasties since I bwgan my Gmail account from the very beginning of gmail. I also use Hotmail and again have never had any problems that were not sorted very quickly.

Too many people arefar too paranoid and not in cotrol of their own lives and computers and it's time they learnt how to sorth it all out.

I have been around computers since the early 70's and the internet since its inception and so far NO company has come after me or interfered with my emails or life.

In reply to a post by cavillas:

Oh dear the nasty Google Mail man will coma ....

Too many people arefar too paranoid and not in cotrol of their own lives and computers and it's time they learnt how to sorth it all out.

I have been around computers since the early 70's and the internet since its inception and so far NO company has come after me or interfered with my emails or life.

You have no control whatsoever over what Google or Microsoft do. What you do on your own computer is completely irrelevant.

If you want paranoia, how long do you think it will be before anyone applying for a visa for the US will have their full google/hotmail email history, (including contents), vetted by the CIA? Of course, having nothing to hide, and never having emailed any criticism of anybody in the US, that doesn't matter to any of us .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You have no control whatsoever over what Google or Microsoft do. What you do on your own computer is completely irrelevant.

Exactly. Everything anyone has ever done on the web is there for good, you cannot erase it thanks to the likes of Google. They do far more than actively scan the contents of every email you send. Only a fool would use their real name & main email address unless they were really forced. Thanks to the likes of Facebook, the phone book and streetview we can look into the window of anyone's lounge. It is so easy to steal an identity.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cavillas&ie=utf-8&o... Not another coffin-dodger ··· AND a mugshot. That's sorted the passport!!

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Sep-11 20:43:58)

To be fair my email address never changes and I use my ISP's email services, but no one uses, or even knows, my ISP email address.

In reply to a post by cavillas:

I have been around computers since the early 70's and the internet since its inception and so far NO company has come after me or interfered with my emails or life.

You have been lucky. Dear old Google still throws up the fact, that your email address was cavill@adsl4less when you posted on the pcreview site on the 24th Feb 2005!

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

To be fair my email address never changes and I use my ISP's email services, but no one uses, or even knows, my ISP email address.

That just confuses the issue, which doesn't help anyone.

The fact any of us with non-ISP mail hosting can use the ISP's SMTP server, or equally non-ISP mail can be forwarded to the ISP's POP3/IMAP server for the user to pick up, or any similar variation on these, is absolutely and completely nothing to do with the discussion. As you well know.

Sorry, why does it confuse?

I have a public email address, let's say tony (at) letters.com and people use that to send me emails, and emails from me appear to come from that email address. However that email address actually is handled by a redirection system somewhere in the world which auto-forwards it, on my instruction, to my current ISPs emaill address. I then get my emails from my ISP's email servers. When I send emails they go from my ISPs email server but have the from and reply to addresses of tony (at) etc.

I've had that set up for around 15 years and it's never caused a problem or let me down. If I change ISP 9I've done it but not very often) I just log in to the redirection handler and change the routing.

It's never caused problems with ISP mail servers and certainly doesn't cause problems with anyone who sends me emails or receives them. And my public email address hasn't changed since I set this up in the mid-1990s.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Zen just works (1 month contract).
IDNet just works (1 month contract).
Be* just works (3 month contract).

The service is good and the user is free to leave if they're unhappy.

Plusnet works well. (1 month contract). I can echo the last line of your post regarding Plusnet too, and they don't charge as much as the examples given.Webmail with them too (although that's just accessing the ISP account). I've never heard anyone suggest g-mail or similar to be better than ISP e-mail accounts before. Prolly because it's not true.

Not sure why you brought up age, but if it matter to you, your posting style is rather typical of a sub-16 year old. So is this a m0aur thing, a Plusnet thing, or a trolling thing?

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

Sorry, why does it confuse?

I have a public email address, let's say tony (at) letters.com and people use that to send me emails, and emails from me appear to come from that email address. However that email address actually is handled by a redirection system somewhere in the world which auto-forwards it, on my instruction, to my current ISPs emaill address. I then get my emails from my ISP's email servers. When I send emails they go from my ISPs email server but have the from and reply to addresses of tony (at) etc.

I've had that set up for around 15 years and it's never caused a problem or let me down. If I change ISP 9I've done it but not very often) I just log in to the redirection handler and change the routing.

It's never caused problems with ISP mail servers and certainly doesn't cause problems with anyone who sends me emails or receives them. And my public email address hasn't changed since I set this up in the mid-1990s.

I think that is what I just described in a lot less words. It is totally irrelevant to the discussion for the OP about the merits and demerits of using ISP-independent email.

If you are talking about something which is totally free, then fine - give some detail, not enigmatic bumph. You are clearly in favour of non-ISP email addresses, and the fact your reliance on your ISP's POP/SMTP servers has not caused you any trouble using your method isn't much use to the OP who has now had trouble with those from two ISPs.

The simpler and better way is external POP/IMAP/SMTP servers, which even eliminates the need to alter a re-direction on ISP migration.

A look at the Tsohost site, seems to show they don't even cater for Mac users.

?
All I can think of is you mean they don't give the setup parameters for Macs? But the server names are there for whatever email client you use.

I must admit I know nothing about Macs, but a mail host is a mail host, and doesn't care what the user computer, OS or mail client is.

Tell me more and I might be able to help. Or I could ask a Mac user I know what the problem/solution is. Alternatively give Tsohost a ring or email tomorrow - you will be amazed !

A simple look at their front page seems to eliminate Mac users http://www.tsohost.co.uk/

Nothing to do with being paranoid.

I don't agree with firms making money, by tracking me, selling that info, or sending adverts, etc.

I have a Hotmail account, but that's only used as a backup, if I have problems with my own domain. Yes I trust M$ more than I ever will Google.

Yes, I often use Webmail, when I'm away, or in other countries & I fully trust the server, it's in the UK.
In fact it's sitting on my desk next to me.

I to am retired, & have had computers long before PC's & even Clive Sinclairs computers.

You have no control whatsoever over what Google or Microsoft do. What you do on your own computer is completely irrelevant.

If you want paranoia, how long do you think it will be before anyone applying for a visa for the US will have their full google/hotmail email history, (including contents), vetted by the CIA? Of course, having nothing to hide, and never having emailed any criticism of anybody in the US, that doesn't matter to any of us .


True, but I can try & reduce what they do.

CIA can vet whatever they want, as I do not wish now, or ever, to visit the US.

I'd never trust a firm that scanned emails, that's the good thing about your own domain & server.

Hmmm, Facebook. My kids (late 20's / 30's) spend far to much time on it. I think that it's the only reason my girl comes to visit (she hasn't go internet access of her own).
She keeps trying to get me & my wife to sign up to it. No way.

In reply to a post by m0aur:

A simple look at their front page seems to eliminate Mac users http://www.tsohost.co.uk/

Ahh! Fret not!

That is referring to the type of web hosting, (and the OS they are running on the host machines), which affects the facilities available to you if you wish to host a website.

Nearly all, or perhaps all, the web and email servers in the world run on Windows or Linux setups. Linux ones are usually cheaper and perfectly good for most of us. Large commercial enterprises may, or Microsoft Partner type developers will want Windows-specific services to run their websites, but others will want Linux-specific ones.

For instance the two main database systems that websites use are Microsoft SQL Server and MySQL. The basic functions of the two are the same, with variations at the advanced levels. The first runs only on a Windows based server, the MySQL runs on Linux, though I think some Windows-based hosts give a choice. The MS one cannot run on Linux.

So don't worry about that. Whether you go with Tsohost or some other, there will usually be the same choice, and you want the Linux one on price grounds. As far as email hosting goes, I don't think there is any difference from our point of view.

My website and email is on Linux at Tsohost, as they were previously with Purple Cloud. I have a Windows laptop on which I do everything including update the website before uploading what you see.

In reply to a post by MadMan:

You have no control whatsoever over what Google or Microsoft do. What you do on your own computer is completely irrelevant.

If you want paranoia, how long do you think it will be before anyone applying for a visa for the US will have their full google/hotmail email history, (including contents), vetted by the CIA? Of course, having nothing to hide, and never having emailed any criticism of anybody in the US, that doesn't matter to any of us .

True, but I can try & reduce what they do.

CIA can vet whatever they want, as I do not wish now, or ever, to visit the US.

Note that post was a reply to cavillas who seems to believe in google or hotmail.

Thanks. Sounds similar to the Mr. Site idea I had looked at.

In reply to a post by MadMan:

I to am retired, & have had computers long before PC's & even Clive Sinclairs computers.

Those of us that remember when the PC was a joke, and if you wanted something decent on your machine, you coded it yourself, are probably far more capable than those that were brought up in the point and click WIMP envioronment, which by comparison is in the same category as the Etch-A-Sketch!

Ummm, no I don't think so.

If I'm looking at the right place that looks like them selling you a package to set up a website to run on their system, with them having a huge degree of control. I would be very wary of that sort of site, as I doubt if it achieves what you need for email. It strikes me like an ISP but less flexible. Again, any email service will be secondary to the site building side, not a central product.

I and the others on here have been talking about pure hosting, where you have the email set up and running literally within hours. Web sites on that host can come later, but so far you haven't mentioned that as being of interest.

Once you have a domain and hosting package, which is set up almost immediately, all you have to do is set up another account in your email client, just like your existing one but with the new email servers, (like where you had to change your PO server addresses to Plusnet ones), and you are up and running in at most a day.

Note that athough I rate Tsohost highly, there are slightly cheaper email-only hosts. Tsohost is hardly expensive though, and the support is A1. Reliability or me so far has been perfect.

LOL.

I remember those days. First IBM PCs = black & white & went beep.

I used to write my own programs. I think I've still got Machine Code books somewhere for the 8080 & Z80

Whoops, sorry.

I've just scrolled the page (threaded) & I see the error

In reply to a post by MadMan:

LOL.

I remember those days. First IBM PCs = black & white & went beep.

I used to write my own programs. I think I've still got Machine Code books somewhere for the 8080 & Z80

Yes, those days the Z80 ran the world as we knew it. Even those that used Basic has more of an idea about computing than some in this age of point and click. I have never forked out for the likes of Dream Weaver when a text editor is perfectly good enough for coding HTML, though I stopped bothering when BT stopped free web-space, preferring to fiddle with Python.
Talking of BT & returning to the original subject matter, I left BT for the Post Office 16 months ago, but my old BT email address is very much in use and has got me through this and many muddle. That �SERVICE� has never missed a beat.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Ummm, no I don't think so.

If I'm looking at the right place that looks like them selling you a package to set up a website to run on their system, with them having a huge degree of control. I would be very wary of that sort of site, as I doubt if it achieves what you need for email. It strikes me like an ISP but less flexible. Again, any email service will be secondary to the site building side, not a central product.

I and the others on here have been talking about pure hosting, where you have the email set up and running literally within hours. Web sites on that host can come later, but so far you haven't mentioned that as being of interest.

Once you have a domain and hosting package, which is set up almost immediately, all you have to do is set up another account in your email client, just like your existing one but with the new email servers, (like where you had to change your PO server addresses to Plusnet ones), and you are up and running in at most a day.

Note that athough I rate Tsohost highly, there are slightly cheaper email-only hosts. Tsohost is hardly expensive though, and the support is A1. Reliability or me so far has been perfect.

Thanks. I realise the the above. I mentioned the Mr. Site option as I thought it was similar in that it was all done online, as opposed to coding your own HTML and uploading when ready as I am used to. I am actually interested in a site also as an Ebay shop is getting expensive, so thought it may kill two birds with one stone, though the results I have seen seem very amateur compared to DIY HTML.

but my old BT email address is very much in use and has got me through this and many muddle. That �SERVICE� has never missed a beat.

I nearly put an aside about that. It does seem to be one that is reliable, but I was putting a lot of stuff.

I was put off it in the 80's when quite frequently it said things like "There is an upgrade available, click here to install", and you ended up with some hideous Yahoo setup instead and the only way out seemed to be a reload of Windows. Perhaps that has changed.

For simple websites such as robertos.me.uk NetObjects Fusion Essentials is free and brilliant. It's the only package I've seen which can do a everything a text editor (I use PsPad) can do much quicker and easier, but with substantial complex features just as easy to use. I now have the full Fusion 12, mainly to allow more levels of menu on other websites.

Thanks. has a quick look at the Fusion site, but time to walk the hound, so will give it a whirl later. Does it include a shopping cart?.

Our latest posts overlapped .

I think I have said enough now, and await what you decide to do . The only thing that worried me in your case was the slightly high price compared to a pure email service, but as you want a web host that's fine. On the lowest package you can (officially) have 2 domains hosted, which I do, plus sub-domains. I have a third domain on one of these bottom packages and it works fine, just by installing it in a sub-directory.

And I wrote my first commercial program on a Leo III in 1967 , seeing as you and MadMan are reminiscing!

Yes, and a full tutorial on all the package features, which is quite good. Worth a trip through if you take that, whoever your chosen host is. Though I haven't explored the cart yet. I may need to soon.

Mmmm ··· No Mac support again ··· Just for a change.

Ah, there's a thing .

Have a look at this package.

Description: (v5.2.005-index-fix)
Perl based shopping system

free on Tsohost.

Also Cubecart
osCommerce
Zen cart.

All web-based and free on Tsohost. There may be others but time for me to do some real world stuff. Many other things too: Bulletin boards; blogs; content management; photo galleries; site builders (Soholaunch Pro and Templates Express); and more.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 05-Sep-11 12:41:13)

I started building computers using the 8080 then moved to the Z80. In Jan 1978 I got my first ready built unit, a Tandy model 1 (16k & upper case only).
Within weeks, it was in bits & modified as 48k, upper & lower case & hi-res graphics, 2 double sided floppy drives running Ldos.
It also had an GPO teleprinter linked to it (real printers were still over £1000) & an ex GPO 300 baud modem (as big as a modern PC), & from then on, I was connected to the world

On & off, I've has BT email accounts, & they always worked perfect.

I was a Fidonet sysop for a number of years using Amigas, including gating email between Fidonet & the Internet, then changed to PC's in 1995. 1st PC (Gateway) came with MS Office pro which included Frontpage, & my current site was built with Frontpage, although I did play at doing it with a text editor.

I'm playing with 2 or 3 other Web programs, but I haven't chosen a replacement yet.

---------------
NetObjects Fusion Essentials is free and brilliant
---------------

Thanks for that, now downloaded.

I'll give it a try, with the others I playing with.

Even the paid for version (version 8) is cheap at $14.95

I suspect Version 8 could have less in iy than current Essentials, seeing as we are now on Version 12 of full.

Yep, after I replied, I did a search & noticed that they were up to version XII.

Hmmm, it's a bit more than $14.95

The big as a house 300baud modems were welcome after after the flexible acoustic job hooked to Prestel. Searching boards for software and struggling alone to set it up to get online, somehow felt better than a click on an IE icon.

I modified the modem, so that the computer could dial out.
As you say, those acoustic modems were rubbish.
When I moved to the Amiga, like the PCs of the time, the web browser was Mosaic, but as you say, it sure felt better then a quick click on an icon.
Both hardware & software could be a battle in those days.

In reply to a post by MadMan:

---------------
NetObjects Fusion Essentials is free and brilliant
---------------

Thanks for that, now downloaded.

I'll give it a try, with the others I playing with.

Even the paid for version (version 8) is cheap at $14.95

Pulled it down to one of my Windows machines. £8 per template don't seem very free to me.

In reply to a post by m0aur:

In reply to a post by MadMan:

---------------
NetObjects Fusion Essentials is free and brilliant
---------------

Thanks for that, now downloaded.

I'll give it a try, with the others I playing with.

Even the paid for version (version 8) is cheap at $14.95

Pulled it down to one of my Windows machines. £8 per template don't seem very free to me.

Hmmm, that doesn't sound very good

There's a fair few included, and I just like the easy way the site navigation is set up and individual pages are linked and filled. Also just drag pages to a new position to rearrange things.

It does what I need . It's the only one I've found that is easily tailored away from the defaults, but I don't claim to be the world's ace web designer .

I thought from what you two were saying templates would be the last thing that you wanted anyway . To me they are all constrictive. That's what I like about it, you don't have to use any.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 05-Sep-11 22:25:57)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

but my old BT email address is very much in use and has got me through this and many muddle. That �SERVICE� has never missed a beat.

I nearly put an aside about that. It does seem to be one that is reliable, but I was putting a lot of stuff.

Not many praise the plus points of BT, such as the reliability of their mail, when we moan about prices or contract length. I could also done with their free Wi-Fi access when things were down here last week. Surrounded by BT routers but can't get into their Fon & Openzone channels.
I am surprised that PN have not explained here why Ebay email never turns up to a PN address.

Edited by deleted (Tue 06-Sep-11 14:44:07)

Hi there,

We've not seen many issues with ebay emails to be honest, I've had a look through our community forums and the only thread I could find relating to this was back in 2008 - http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,7206...

If it were a service wide issue I'd expect there to be a lot more complaints coming in though if you've tried turning off the spam protection and there's still an issue then we'll gladly look into it for you and try some tests.

In reply to a post by orbrey:

Hi there,

We've not seen many issues with ebay emails to be honest, I've had a look through our community forums and the only thread I could find relating to this was back in 2008 - http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,7206...

If it were a service wide issue I'd expect there to be a lot more complaints coming in though if you've tried turning off the spam protection and there's still an issue then we'll gladly look into it for you and try some tests.

Well I can find hundreds of Email problems going back years. One recent example http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,9793... from the many problems here http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/board,65.0...
As usual, the stock answer is to question our ability to set up a mailbox, when all mail addressed to our PN addresses is turning up except those from Ebay & Paypal. Not to worry ···

Edited by deleted (Tue 06-Sep-11 17:51:30)

As usual, the stock answer is to question our ability to set up a mailbox,

I can't see where Matt has asked you to do that? He's suggested turning the spam protection off from the controls on our website and seeing if the emails arrive then which is a good first step to resolving this.

In reply to a post by chrisparr:

As usual, the stock answer is to question our ability to set up a mailbox,

I can't see where Matt has asked you to do that? He's suggested turning the spam protection off from the controls on our website and seeing if the emails arrive then which is a good first step to resolving this.

And I can't see where I stated he did. I was referring to the answer in the link, and more generally that the first response is that users don't know what they are doing. Both the Ebay & Paypal emails have still not turned up on both my Windows and Mac machines that have been happily running for years. Apple mail especially, presents you with all mail. It will mark what it thinks may be spam, leaving you to click spam or not. Even if marked as spam it does no more than show a �You marked this sender as Spam� message, it does not block it. But not to worry, I was only trying to prove myself wrong. As for the Plusnet spam settings, surely if I had left it turned on, PN should not consider Ebay & Paypal as coming from a bad senderbase reputation.

Edited by deleted (Wed 07-Sep-11 10:29:43)

In reply to a post by MadMan:

I modified the modem, so that the computer could dial out.
As you say, those acoustic modems were rubbish.

Both hardware & software could be a battle in those days.

I remember those old BT 300 baud modems, I had one. The computer I had at the time did not have a terminal program, so I wrote one and included dialling capability so that I could get online to the BBS'. Those were the days, not just clicking an icon like now.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Old folks eh?

They don't know any better. It's our job to educate them.

Some of us DO know better .... we know better than to sell our souls (and data/privacy) to Google. for many ISP email is fine, and some prefer that to having profiles built by american data scrapers.

Paranoid much.

Obvious Troll is obvious!

Paranoid? Not really, but its MY data, and if anyone is making money off of it then it will be ME.

I understand you are most likely part of a generation brainwashed into publicising your every bodily function on facepalm and twatter etc, but please dont suggest that those choosing not to pass private communications via a notorious snooper like Google are in some way less intelligent than yourself.

In reply to a post by warweezil:

Obvious Troll is obvious!

Paranoid? Not really, but its MY data, and if anyone is making money off of it then it will be ME.

I understand you are most likely part of a generation brainwashed into publicising your every bodily function on facepalm and twatter etc, but please dont suggest that those choosing not to pass private communications via a notorious snooper like Google are in some way less intelligent than yourself.

Unfortunately, the Droogs of today know no better. Don't even have the sense to use Goggle.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1337837/Go...

Surely this is all about choice. I use Gmail. I happen to think it's the best email service on the planet. I know how Google works, I know how they earn their money and I signed up to it when I opened the account. None of it bothers me in the slightest.

Exactly ··· �All about choice�. I certainly was not offered one by Google. It was just �Sign up here� � No mention of what they got up to from information gleaned about you. If it was presented to you, consider yourself lucky. But, like the network snooping via the Google Streetview vehicles, it took press reports to make the public aware and to force the Anarchists to admit a �Mistake�, though how the hell you can snoop a network by mistake when using a camera is beyond me.
As for the best Email on the planet, like most things I consider it to be BT mail, which is still available to me 16 months after leaving BT. It has never been down and as far as I know they don't snoop like Google. They are probably keeping it active for my return!

Edited by deleted (Sun 11-Sep-11 21:26:08)