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Hello,
Decided to post on this forum as Plus are refusing to turn interleaving off on my FTTC connection. as they said the line is unstable and it needs to stay. How ever that is besides the point with BT we had our connection stay synced for 90+ days Just because when we got our broadband activated we had to disconnect it a couple of times to alter settings in the router.
http://puu.sh/Cgru
The actual interleaving seems to be causing errors on the line as the white openreach modem reports less errors then what it is displaying now Including a drop in the speed.
It's took 15 days of arguing in support tickets where our connection is not fully usable either due to streaming/playback issues including frequent disconnections in games. Plus the double latency that we are facing.
http://puu.sh/Cgsm
http://puu.sh/Cgsu
http://puu.sh/CgsG
http://puu.sh/CgsK
http://puu.sh/CgsU
We had similar issues with BT where DLM would report errors on the line that actually would not be causing any issues so BT had to keep putting a hard limit on the DLM but PlusNET are refusing to even help and just blaming this issue on our equipment inside our home.
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Question #55853294
For PlusNET Staff to use.
I'm forwarding this to OffCom now due to other issues I have had with PlusNET also.
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We actually have no facility (nor do any other ISPs) to do this on a Fibre line unfortunately.
If interleaving is on then it's likely that the DLM equipment has determined that the line isn't stable enough with this off. The graphs in the links you've provided prove that the line isn't stable and is dropping too.
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The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
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The actual interleaving seems to be causing errors on the line as the white openreach modem reports less errors then what it is displaying now Including a drop in the speed. So you have unlocked the modem?
It's a bit hard to see what you are saying there, as bits seem to be missing. (How can it be reporting less than it is displaying?) Which errors are you meaning are worse with interleaving? There are several different sorts.
OfCom will either not be interested, or advise you to go through Plusnet's Disputes Procedure prior to a complaint to CICAS. Unfortunately all the evidence you have uploaded shows PN have carried out all the proper tests.
Was your BT Broadband also FTTC, or was it ADSLx? Why did you move? Did you have the same problem and hope it would be cured? We had similar issues with BT where DLM would report errors on the line that actually would not be causing any issues so BT had to keep putting a hard limit on the DLM
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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The DLM for BT Retail and Plusnet, and any other FTTC supplier (other than Digital Region) works the same as they are all using the same DLM from Openreach.
What sort of bit rates are you trying to stream, as a 6 Meg ADSL service will happily handle almost every commercial streaming service in HD format.
On the stability, your line stats indicate you are a fair way from the cabinet, and at these distances interference can be an issue, since FTTC is vulnerable to it. Most people have no issues.
What is the actual latency on the link, as the data you have shown indicate interleaving is set to low
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Unless you are at least 1Km from the FTTC Cab, you would do better looking at local noise issues or wiring problems causing the disconnections. Your attainable speed should be higher than 32Mb at under 1Km without other issues present on the line.
How far are you realistically from the FTTC Cab?
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 The actual interleaving seems to be causing errors on the line as the white openreach modem reports less errors then what it is displaying now Including a drop in the speed. Of course, Interleaving reports more corrected errors than Fast Path, which just lets them thro' uncorrected and unreported.
Ofcom won't be concerned about a technology setting like Interleaved vs. Fast Path. Their remit is the commercial aspects of the industry.
I have the inverse issue; Orange won't switch off Fast Path. They say it is only controlled by the DLM. I put up with it  .
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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Hello there,
Just read through your post and the comments made by the Plusnet staff on the pictures. I think your pointing the finger at the wrong thing.
It's saying the ping times on your tracert's are mainly 14ms, which is pretty much the same sort of response times you would get with interleaving turned off.
But what it also says is that some times your ping times spike upto 200ms on some ocassions.
This lookss more to do with internet traffic, then interleaving. It's either busy, or its being traffic shaped. Dont know if Plusnet have an option for prioritised traffic on fttc yet, but they had the option for adsl.
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Hello,
Firstly, I'm 3.5km from the exchange around 600m from the cabinet with BT got 4.5Mbps up and 31Mbps down.
The issue here is due to me disconnectioning the connection about 3 times when transfering the broadband from BT the interleaving actually causes more errors on my connection in General where as ADSL gives me around 1-2MBps.
Example BT: http://pastie.org/3958301/wrap
Example Plus: http://pastie.org/4123405
Streaming issues are not constant but related more to BBC Iplayer/News Channel that is very annoying.
BT sent out engineer 6 times when my connection was activated and got the interleaving/ipprofile reset as DLM was reporting incorrect issues and applying interleaving after 6 times they finally fixed the problem and did not have that issue in 9 months. How would you feel if Plusnet totally refused to help you?
And then refuse point blank to provide you with a MAC Code when you want to transfer away from them? Plus the Support Staff are uttter stupid. I'm paying over 60% more with Plus then I was with BT who generally provided a better service as they at least wanted to help me with the issue?
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And then refuse point blank to provide you with a MAC Code when you want to transfer away from them? They're not allowed to refuse for any reason. Report them to OFCOM.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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Hello again,
Those tracert's are saying your pings are fine, and resemble interleaving is already turned off.
For me, there is a big difference between interleaving on and off.
Interleaving on = 70ms
Interleaving off = 10ms
Your ms readings are between 18-28ms, which looks like interleaving is off, and less then half if interleaving was turned on.
At peak/busy periods, my ping times also increase upto around 26ms, and my speed drops between 2-4Mb. BBC Iplayer also keeps stopping and starting during this time.
At 8'o clock tonight, do a speedtest and you will see your speed/bandwidth has slowed down and your pings have gone up.
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Example BT: http://pastie.org/3958301/wrap
Example Plus: http://pastie.org/4123405
The BT example you've given goes through Plusnet routers and gateways and appears to be from one of our connections.
And then refuse point blank to provide you with a MAC Code when you want to transfer away from them?
I'm not sure where this comment has come from as we provided your MAC on the 12th June, in a ticket that you have also replied to after this point.
I see on you support ticket that you're still requesting interleaving off, at the moment this will *not* happen on your account as there are still disconnections happening therefore the DLM won't remove it. Interleaving being on won't be causing the streaming problems you're seeing either.
We're happy to help resolve your issues if you'd like us to continue doing so.
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The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
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At 600m from the cab you can easily get 38Mb unless there are issues with your line, which there clearly ARE. Stop throwing your dollly out of the pram and do some constructive fault investigation.
A Simple wiring issue or unfiltered stub on the line could cause exactly the issue you describe. If you're not willing to listen from the good advice here, just put up and shut up complainig when people are trying to help, including PlusNet.
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Firstly, I'm 3.5km from the exchange around 600m from the cabinet with BT got 4.5Mbps up and 31Mbps down.
The issue here is due to me disconnectioning the connection about 3 times when transfering the broadband from BT the interleaving actually causes more errors on my connection in General where as ADSL gives me around 1-2MBps.
Example BT: http://pastie.org/3958301/wrap
Example Plus: http://pastie.org/4123405 What have tracerts got to do with your error rates, and what has ADSL giving you 1-2Mbps got to do with anything at all? Furthermore, neither of those tracerts is using BT.
You post in an extremely confusing way, both here and earlier  .
We haven't seen any error rates from your modem, despite your being asked for them. Why not? Streaming issues are not constant but related more to BBC Iplayer/News Channel that is very annoying. There may be a problem there. BT sent out engineer 6 times when my connection was activated and got the interleaving/ipprofile reset as DLM was reporting incorrect issues and applying interleaving after 6 times they finally fixed the problem and did not have that issue in 9 months. How would you feel if Plusnet totally refused to help you? Are you talking about how BT dealt with an issue a while ago, and how Plusnet are dealing with a different sort of issue entirely? And then refuse point blank to provide you with a MAC Code when you want to transfer away from them? As has been said in posts following yours, first they cannot refuse, second they say they did nine days ago, and third, are you sure they didn't just tell you that you are within an eighteen month contract so leaving will cost you, so advised against it? Plus the Support Staff are uttter stupid. Your style of posting implies you will have told them this on more than one occasion. If I'm right, a lack of helpfulness would not be surprising. I'm paying over 60% more with Plus then I was with BT I simply don't believe that. Like for like BT cost more, and you would have had no reason at all to move to Plusnet. who generally provided a better service as they at least wanted to help me with the issue? I've never heard of BT being so helpful as to supply a customer with the detailed line monitoring graphs that Plusnet gave you - linked in an earlier post.
I spy a Red Mist. Maybe if you calm down you can give us a straight story, with no non-facts. You've had several suggestions from other posters, and seem to have responded to none of them.
Edits - Multiple typos.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Edited by RobertoS (Thu 21-Jun-12 09:30:51)
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And then refuse point blank to provide you with a MAC Code when you want to transfer away from them? They're not allowed to refuse for any reason. Report them to OFCOM.
Already did report them to Offcom and eventually after 2 weeks they provided it me.
How ever when moving back to BT with my broadband the order randomly got cancelled 2 hours before it was suppose to go active again with BT.
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Firstly, I'm 3.5km from the exchange around 600m from the cabinet with BT got 4.5Mbps up and 31Mbps down.
The issue here is due to me disconnectioning the connection about 3 times when transfering the broadband from BT the interleaving actually causes more errors on my connection in General where as ADSL gives me around 1-2MBps.
Example BT: http://pastie.org/3958301/wrap
Example Plus: http://pastie.org/4123405 What have tracerts got to do with your error rates, and what has ADSL giving you 1-2Mbps got to do with anything at all? Furthermore, neither of those tracerts is using BT.
You post in an extremely confusing way, both here and earlier .
We haven't seen any error rates from your modem, despite your being asked for them. Why not?Streaming issues are not constant but related more to BBC Iplayer/News Channel that is very annoying. There may be a problem there.BT sent out engineer 6 times when my connection was activated and got the interleaving/ipprofile reset as DLM was reporting incorrect issues and applying interleaving after 6 times they finally fixed the problem and did not have that issue in 9 months. How would you feel if Plusnet totally refused to help you? Are you talking about how BT dealt with an issue a while ago, and how Plusnet are dealing with a different sort of issue entirely?And then refuse point blank to provide you with a MAC Code when you want to transfer away from them? As has been said in posts following yours, first they cannot refuse, second they say they did nine days ago, and third, are you sure they didn't just tell you that you are within an eighteen month contract so leaving will cost you, so advised against it?Plus the Support Staff are uttter stupid. Your style of posting implies you will have told them this on more than one occasion. If I'm right, a lack of helpfulness would not be surprising.I'm paying over 60% more with Plus then I was with BT I simply don't believe that. Like for like BT cost more, and you would have had no reason at all to move to Plusnet.who generally provided a better service as they at least wanted to help me with the issue? I've never heard of BT being so helpful as to supply a customer with the detailed line monitoring graphs that Plusnet gave you - linked in an earlier post.
I spy a Red Mist. Maybe if you calm down you can give us a straight story, with no non-facts. You've had several suggestions from other posters, and seem to have responded to none of them.
Edits - Multiple typos.
I'm paying more with PlusNET because of the BW overage charges, I used around 440GB per month with BT going onto a 120GB per month plan is costing me a lot more then I was with BT.
BT even offered to bring my 50 quid bill down to 37.50 per month the same exact price as PlusNET yet I refused as Plus told me that they was better then BT.
Also I was not ignoring what people was suggesting or discussing, I was out all day yesterday and typed my first response drunk.
Edited by deleted (Thu 21-Jun-12 17:08:39)
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How ever when moving back to BT with my broadband the order randomly got cancelled 2 hours before it was suppose to go active again with BT. Maybe BT realised who you were ...  .
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edited by RobertoS (Thu 21-Jun-12 16:58:20)
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At 600m from the cab you can easily get 38Mb unless there are issues with your line, which there clearly ARE. Stop throwing your dollly out of the pram and do some constructive fault investigation.
A Simple wiring issue or unfiltered stub on the line could cause exactly the issue you describe. If you're not willing to listen from the good advice here, just put up and shut up complainig when people are trying to help, including PlusNet.
Nothing wrong with my Line.
Firstly when I first joined BT I had several issues, Got told that I could never get any FTTC product as my line estimate was below 15MBps as back when FTTC first came out BT wholesale had a policy to not provide FTTC with anyone who has estimates under 15MBps. After months of arguing with Ian Living stone they provided me the FTTC product where I told them that I could get more then the 13Mbps that they estimated me the connection was activated Getting 26Mbps after a while the speed increased to around 31-32Mbps.
All of our wiring is brand new in our property it is 1 single wire straight to the white openreach modem.
http://puu.sh/CAgx
The above screenshot indicates a lot of errors on my line. How ever since the interleaving was turned on all of these errors have appeared.
Secondly when BT called out an engineer for the first time they told me it was due to the amount of errors. How ever after them ringing up the second level faults department within BT they actually told them that the line was stable.
Each time engineers came out it was due to DLM they had to keep resetting DLM to get my connection back to normal. Sometimes it was errors at the first cabinet in my area as sites would not even load causing issues for not just me. Another time they replaced a box down the street with a new box making my line even more stable.
I had to disconnect my connection a few times when I got it to alter settings as every single time you make a change in the router Plus provide you it re-syncs your connection every time.
Also please tell me why there has been open ticket with the faults team now for over 20 days? When ever I reported faults to BT they was fixed in 3 days max. It takes at least 6 days resolution time for any kind of issue with PlusNET.
Please tell me if there was a lot of disconnections Plus, then why did my connection sync for 60+ days without 1 single disconnection?
And how come you sent out an engineer and he did not even turn up?
Edited by deleted (Thu 21-Jun-12 17:14:13)
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And then refuse point blank to provide you with a MAC Code when you want to transfer away from them? They're not allowed to refuse for any reason. Report them to OFCOM.
I did report them to OFCOM and suddenly they provided me with the MAC Code.
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The above screenshot indicates a lot of errors on my line. So are you saying there are no HEC or CRC errors when interleaving is off?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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The above screenshot indicates a lot of errors on my line. So are you saying there are no HEC or CRC errors when interleaving is off?
Correct Sir.
There are very few errors generated over time compared to the amount of errors there is now.
See - http://puu.sh/CAFh
http://www.pingtest.net/result/65036503.png
The amount of errors the openreach modem is displaying if there was that many errors, I would notice frequent disconnections.
Same exact issue with BT how ever the line never had disconnections 30-90 days average sync time with full speeds 24/7 apart from constant P2P capping. Never really use P2P anyway. would use over 360GB transfer each month from netflix/lovefilm and Sky Anytime. Including remote server administration.
Please take this into consideration how is Plusnet cheap. Might be for some users who are more light users but for myself. The broadband is more expensive in general my bill was more expensive due to paying £16 each month for anytime calls with BT but they removed that fee making it cheaper then Plus. Now I'm having to pay for extra usage. So how is Plus cheaper ?
Edited by deleted (Thu 21-Jun-12 17:54:23)
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I'm paying more with PlusNET because of the BW overage charges, I used around 440GB per month with BT going onto a 120GB per month plan is costing me a lot more then I was with BT.
Well of course it would, so why on earth did you move to Plusnet?
Kevin
plusnet Extra 80/20 trial
Using OpenDNS
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I'm paying more with PlusNET because of the BW overage charges, I used around 440GB per month with BT going onto a 120GB per month plan is costing me a lot more then I was with BT.
Well of course it would, so why on earth did you move to Plusnet?
I was not fully aware of the charge per GB when purchasing from them.
Plus I was getting annoyed from other people in our house hold about paying 50quid a month for phone and broadband. BT even offered to lower the price but I refused as they always love messing up Orders same as Plus.
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The error counts as shown in the Huawei HG612 modem's GUI appear to be incorrectly reported.
This appears to be a "bug" in the modem's original firmware.
More accurate & meaningful error reports can be obtained via a telnet session.
Useful data is obtained from these commands:-
xdslcmd info --pbParams - shows speeds, SNRM, attenuation per frequency band etc.
xdslcmd info --stats - shows many other settings & error counts in the format RSCorr & RSUnCorr etc. (Corrected & Uncorrected), error seconds serious error seconds etc. etc. etc.
The combination of all those stats is what causes DLM to determine what speeds you can have & whether Interleaving, Impulse Noise Protection & delay are turned on or off & at what levels/depths.
Also, if you are a Windows user & can be bothered to obtain factual statistics, you could run the graphing scripts to generate your own graphs and data logs as "evidence".
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Plusnet is very often not cheaper as stated in those silly adverts. Like all clever marketing these days, there is always the small print. In the case of Plusnet, their claim applies to standalone broadband only, and then it only works out cheaper on a market 2 or 3 exchange for a limited use product with throttling and shaping. When comparing them with B.T. you should consider they have been taken over by B.T. so no longer are they allowed to openly offer unlimited or packages that severely undercut their parent company.
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The error counts as shown in the Huawei HG612 modem's GUI appear to be incorrectly reported.
This appears to be a "bug" in the modem's original firmware.
More accurate & meaningful error reports can be obtained via a telnet session.
Useful data is obtained from these commands:-
xdslcmd info --pbParams - shows speeds, SNRM, attenuation per frequency band etc.
xdslcmd info --stats - shows many other settings & error counts in the format RSCorr & RSUnCorr etc. (Corrected & Uncorrected), error seconds serious error seconds etc. etc. etc.
The combination of all those stats is what causes DLM to determine what speeds you can have & whether Interleaving, Impulse Noise Protection & delay are turned on or off & at what levels/depths.
Also, if you are a Windows user & can be bothered to obtain factual statistics, you could run the graphing scripts to generate your own graphs and data logs as "evidence".
Thought the reports was correctly invalid so here you go.
http://pastie.org/4128177
Full Stats.
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Thought the reports was correctly invalid.
Not quite sure what that means.
Your stats are very similar to mine (very slightly worse).
| Text | 1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
22 | # xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY statusStatus: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0Max: Upstream rate = 4884 Kbps, Downstream rate = 33736 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 4902 Kbps, Downstream rate = 28629 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band PlanUS: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3959) Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) DS: (32,859) (1216,1963)
VDSL Port Details Upstream DownstreamAttainable Net Data Rate: 4884 kbps 33736 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 6.3 dBm 12.6 dBm============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3 Line Attenuation(dB): 8.3 54.8 84.3 N/A 21.9 64.6 0.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 9.2 54.1 N/A N/A 21.9 64.6 N/A SNR Margin(dB): 6.1 6.1 N/A N/A 6.3 6.4 N/A
TX Power(dBm): -4.6 5.9 N/A N/A 11.5 6.0 N/A |
Basically your connection's attenuation is too high to achieve a faster/more stable connection.
You have no spare SNRM to speak of, so your connection is currently operating at its maximum capability.
I would guesstimate you are therefore around 1km from the cabinet (or there is quite a serious physical issue somewhere on your connection).
Whenever DLM has been reset on my connection (following engineer repair works), Interleaving has remained OFF for a few days.
Ultimately it always gets automatically switched back on again though, due to various errors accumulating due to the distance from the cabinet & susceptibility to noise interference.
Our high attenuation & low SNRM also means we cannot actually use any of the higher frequency band plan tones that were discovered during initialisation from a reboot or resync.
Does your connection resync regularly?
Bear in mind that Plusnet do NOT see all the modem resyncs, so thay CAN be kidded slightly into believing a connection is perfectly stable when, on occasions, that is not reality.
Edited by deleted (Thu 21-Jun-12 21:51:50)
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So confirming that the GUI error stats were correct 
However the TELNET ones provide more meat and prove that all your error stats are low  - HEC : 0.0005%
- FEC : 0.0006%
- CRC : 0.0015%
- 1 ES per 31 mins; no Serious ES
These are typical rates for Interleaved and would be much worse on Fast Path.
So your starting premise is invalid
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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Thought the reports was correctly invalid.
Not quite sure what that means.
Your stats are very similar to mine (very slightly worse).
| Text | 1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
22 | # xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY statusStatus: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0Max: Upstream rate = 4884 Kbps, Downstream rate = 33736 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 4902 Kbps, Downstream rate = 28629 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band PlanUS: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3959) Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) DS: (32,859) (1216,1963)
VDSL Port Details Upstream DownstreamAttainable Net Data Rate: 4884 kbps 33736 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 6.3 dBm 12.6 dBm============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3 Line Attenuation(dB): 8.3 54.8 84.3 N/A 21.9 64.6 0.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 9.2 54.1 N/A N/A 21.9 64.6 N/A SNR Margin(dB): 6.1 6.1 N/A N/A 6.3 6.4 N/A
TX Power(dBm): -4.6 5.9 N/A N/A 11.5 6.0 N/A |
Basically your connection's attenuation is too high to achieve a faster/more stable connection.
You have no spare SNRM to speak of, so your connection is currently operating at its maximum capability.
I would guesstimate you are therefore around 1km from the cabinet (or there is quite a serious physical issue somewhere on your connection).
Whenever DLM has been reset on my connection (following engineer repair works), Interleaving has remained OFF for a few days.
Ultimately it always gets automatically switched back on again though, due to various errors accumulating due to the distance from the cabinet & susceptibility to noise interference.
Our high attenuation & low SNRM also means we cannot actually use any of the higher frequency band plan tones that were discovered during initialisation from a reboot or resync.
Does your connection resync regularly?
Bear in mind that Plusnet do NOT see all the modem resyncs, so thay CAN be kidded slightly into believing a connection is perfectly stable when, on occasions, that is not reality.
Had 60-90 days where my connection has not resynced at all. we have good wiring as it's virtually 1 wire from the pole straight to our socket
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Thought the reports was correctly invalid.
Not quite sure what that means.
Your stats are very similar to mine (very slightly worse).
| Text | 1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
22 | # xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY statusStatus: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0Max: Upstream rate = 4884 Kbps, Downstream rate = 33736 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 4902 Kbps, Downstream rate = 28629 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band PlanUS: (0,95) (868,1207) (1972,2783)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1963) (2792,3959) Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (868,1207) DS: (32,859) (1216,1963)
VDSL Port Details Upstream DownstreamAttainable Net Data Rate: 4884 kbps 33736 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power: 6.3 dBm 12.6 dBm============================================================================
VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 D1 D2 D3 Line Attenuation(dB): 8.3 54.8 84.3 N/A 21.9 64.6 0.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 9.2 54.1 N/A N/A 21.9 64.6 N/A SNR Margin(dB): 6.1 6.1 N/A N/A 6.3 6.4 N/A
TX Power(dBm): -4.6 5.9 N/A N/A 11.5 6.0 N/A |
Basically your connection's attenuation is too high to achieve a faster/more stable connection.
You have no spare SNRM to speak of, so your connection is currently operating at its maximum capability.
I would guesstimate you are therefore around 1km from the cabinet (or there is quite a serious physical issue somewhere on your connection).
Whenever DLM has been reset on my connection (following engineer repair works), Interleaving has remained OFF for a few days.
Ultimately it always gets automatically switched back on again though, due to various errors accumulating due to the distance from the cabinet & susceptibility to noise interference.
Our high attenuation & low SNRM also means we cannot actually use any of the higher frequency band plan tones that were discovered during initialisation from a reboot or resync.
Does your connection resync regularly?
Bear in mind that Plusnet do NOT see all the modem resyncs, so thay CAN be kidded slightly into believing a connection is perfectly stable when, on occasions, that is not reality.
Interleaving was off on our connection for about 96% of the time having the connection activated. Only gets activated when I resync the router myself for changes inside the router.
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Do you have to quote the whole of a complex post containing other quotes to answer a single question from the post, then repeat the action for a second question? It is not helpful to solving your problems. It makes following the thread extremely difficult.
If you use the Quote button it is perfectly possible to edit what is presented to you, by adding or removing sentences and the quote and /quote markup.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Perhaps OP will help by editing and removing the detritus?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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Had 60-90 days where my connection has not re-synced at all. TELNET stats show you re-synced 9 days ago:
AS = 795199 secs = 221 hours = 9.2 days. Also: Since Link time = 9 days 4 hours 53 min 17 sec
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 22-Jun-12 00:35:07)
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Had 60-90 days where my connection has not re-synced at all. TELNET stats show you re-synced 9 days ago:
AS = 795199 secs = 221 hours = 9.2 days. Also:Since Link time = 9 days 4 hours 53 min 17 sec
So why is DLM limiting my line further each day then?
When my error count is low? whole reason I had several engineers out in the first place. The same guy came several times and rung up the second level even they said the line is stable.
BT would of called out an engineer by now and fixed it. They always did but Plus refuse to do so.
This is the first time in 6 months that interleaving has been applied and for ages interleaving has been applied on my line effecting gaming a lot.
Forgot to mention when BT sent out the several engineers they said they could detect a fault. Possibly because DLM was randomly applying interleaving. This issue started 1 week before I joined Plus but then went away and came back.
Edited by deleted (Fri 22-Jun-12 00:47:05)
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I'm lost!
How and where is DLM limiting your line each day? Where do you see it?
How does DLM "report errors"? You never see it. Do you just mean that it is reacting to bad sync events?
What has this to do with your error stats?
I doubt OR engs know anything about error stats and do anything directly about correcting them.
Think you are confusing errors with the slower latency you get on Interleaved which would certainly affect gaming, but is determined auto by the DLM in response to events on the line and as you have been repeatedly told cannot be overridden by your ISP.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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I'm lost!
How and where is DLM limiting your line each day? Where do you see it?
How does DLM "report errors"? You never see it. Do you just mean that it is reacting to bad sync events?
What has this to do with your error stats?
I doubt OR engs know anything about error stats and do anything directly about correcting them.
Think you are confusing errors with the slower latency you get on Interleaved which would certainly affect gaming, but is determined auto by the DLM in response to events on the line and as you have been repeatedly told cannot be overridden by your ISP.
DLM has limited the speed, Loosing around 3-5MBps on average.
Including the interleaving is currently stuck.
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Yeah, but that all happened 9 days ago, not daily.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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Yeah, but that all happened 9 days ago, not daily.
It happened 9 days ago when I flashed the white openreach modem. Don't forget it also resyncs when you unplug your router.
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EDIT Just remembered you have sep modem from router. Don't forget it also resyncs when you unplug your router. Does it? Surprised! Like to see that confirmed.
In any case modem counts are since 9 days ago.
You do tnat daily?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 22-Jun-12 04:37:36)
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Don't forget it also resyncs when you unplug your router. At which time it zeroises all counts.
I do forget when you unpluged your router, but it was at least 9 days ago.
So what?
I still don't see what you are taking about daily changes of speed.
Are you stupid?
The 9 day sync time is of the connection of the vdsl modem. PPoE connection was re-synced about 2 days ago. That is what DLM sees not the 9 day uptime of the VDSL modem. See the graphs that is displayed on the first post.
I just want PlusNET to remove the god dam interleaving or I want them to stop taking my broadband hostage.
So I can move back over to BT who actually give a [censored] about the customers they have. And are not only interested in short term profit.
To be honest Plus don't care about customers Just profit if you ask me. They refuse to honour every single request you ask them.
Edited by deleted (Fri 22-Jun-12 04:25:36)
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Don't forget it also resyncs when you unplug your router. Errr - no! It doesn't.
So if yours does, we are looking close to the root of your problem.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Don't forget it also resyncs when you unplug your router. Errr - no! It doesn't.
So if yours does, we are looking close to the root of your problem.
How come every single time I change a setting in the router the PPoE connection drops and then PlusNET display that on the graphs they send me?
Never even seen the VDSL modem from BT loose connection.
The most funniest thing is never had the connection rsync at anytime during it being activated. Unless I have modified something on the netgear router or unplugged it.
I have unplugged the VDSL modem maybe 3-4 times during the period of having FTTC. Once for updating the firmware. Once when an engineer replaced it with a updated version. Other times due to connection speed issues. ( DLM Related Again )
Had to re-plug the VDSL modem a few times after firmware update.
It's alright anyway I'll just move back over to BT. Thank god that I stopped my Phone from being transferred, They won't be getting anything else from me for the rest of the contract anyway .
Also go away PlusNET Fan Boy.
Edited by deleted (Fri 22-Jun-12 04:39:17)
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Obviously not as ignorant as you have shown throughout this thread.
The DLM is ignorant, like you, of whatever you are doing to the router and so cannot possibly react to it.
So during this whole saga you have been blaming poor DLM for somehing it is totally unaware of.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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Obviously not as ignorant as you have shown throughout this thread.
The DLM is ignorant, like you, of whatever you are doing to the router and so cannot possibly react to it.
So during this whole saga you have been blaming poor DLM for somehing it is totally unaware of.
This thread is about Plus not honouring customers requests and ripping people off. And not caring about them either.
So don't attempt to be rude towards me pal.
I have literately tried every ISP. Plus,Orange,TalkTalk,AOL,02,BT Including a few others. How ever Plus have to be my first ISP that I was wanting to move to another ISP. as they truly suck. So please get the hell out of this thread if you are a Plus Fanboy.
Edited by deleted (Fri 22-Jun-12 06:30:41)
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I just want PlusNET to remove the god dam interleaving
I hate to say it, but Plusnet did reply about it in this thread, saying...
We actually have no facility (nor do any other ISPs) to do this on a Fibre line unfortunately.
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This thread is about Plus not honouring customers requests and ripping people off. And not caring about them either.
Well............the thread you started was about PN refusing to turn interleaving off . You have been advised that on a fibre connection no ISP can do that.
So don't attempt to be rude towards me pal.
I have literately tried every ISP. Plus,Orange,TalkTalk,AOL,02,BT Including a few others. How ever Plus have to be my first ISP that I was wanting to move to another ISP. as they truly suck. So please get the hell out of this thread if you are a Plus Fanboy. Some knowledgeable members have attempted to advise you. Just because they fail to agree on your diagnosis or conclusions does not make them "fanboys" as they generally can be quite critical of any ISP when they believe it is warranted...................when that phrase pops up the plot is lost I suggest. and has descended into silly name calling. No chance of agreement here I suspect so suggest you move on.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I have literately tried every ISP. Plus,Orange,TalkTalk,AOL,02,BT Including a few others. How ever Plus have to be my first ISP that I was wanting to move to another ISP. as they truly suck.
I have to ask, if all the other ISPs were so good, why have you tried so many?
Changing ISP doesn't make any difference to physical connection properties, apart from perhaps when switching to a LLU connection.
With VDSL2 (FTTC) there is not really that much choice.
Most connections still use BT's equipment/infrastructure.
Some ISPs are better at fault chasing than others.
I would put Plusnet in the "better" category.
However, as ALL ISPs are currently struggling to fully understand VDSL2 technology, hampered very much by BT's "secrecy" around the newish technology. It is unfortunately therefore very much up to us users to provide evidence of issues in as CLEAR & detailed a manner as possible to assist.
Incorrectly stating that router resyncs cause DLM to take corrective action does not help in trying to engage an ISP in assisting fault reporting/chasing.
It is the modem resyncing that affects how DLM manages any given connection.
As mentioned elsewhere, VDSL2 modems resync that quickly that more often than not a new PPP session is not initiated & the ISP is completely unaware of a connection's REAL instability.
Changing ISP again will not necessarily help matters.
If you recorded your connection stats every minute of every day you would have sufficient evidence of either a clean/quiet & error-free connection or the opposite which MAY assist in reporting/chasing necessary repairs.
The easy way would be to use the graphing scripts.
Even armed with such evidence since last November when I developed the initial scripts, it has taken a total of around 11 months for my Plusnet connection to regain its initial stability.
Now it is stable again, I can further investigate what I see as a low speed issue.
Plusnet have arranged many BT OR engineer visits at no cost to myself over these 11 months, with a little repair work carried out each time instead of a full & thorough investigation & one-off repair of various issues.
Unfortunately, ISPs are also at the mercy of how BT OR allocates work to its engineers & even whether or not specialised/skilled engineers are sent to a user's premises.
Could your really see many other ISPs sticking with a user's problems for such a long time?
Perhaps they only stayed with my issues as I was able to provide very detailed staistical data to back up my claims - who knows?
We should also note that according to BT, my connection has performed "within acceptable limits" throughout these issues yet Plusnet have still managed to arrange free of charge engineer visits.
I have a genuine interest in your case, especially as your connection stats appear to be so similar to mine.
What distance are you actually from the cabinet?
If you do switch ISPs or stay with Plusnet, I would be very interested to see detailed stats of any of your connection's permanent improvements as it may just assist me in my own quest for higher speeds.
P.S. I would personally use the term "misinformed" rather than "stupid" when requesting assistance/advice.
Edited by deleted (Fri 22-Jun-12 08:22:24)
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Don't forget it also resyncs when you unplug your router. Errr - no! It doesn't.
So if yours does, we are looking close to the root of your problem.
How come every single time I change a setting in the router the PPoE connection drops and then PlusNET display that on the graphs they send me?
Never even seen the VDSL modem from BT loose connection.
The most funniest thing is never had the connection rsync at anytime during it being activated. Unless I have modified something on the netgear router or unplugged it.
Sync is the negotiated speed between your modem and the DSLAM in the FTTC cabinet. Period! That is totally different from the PPPoE Session established between your router and your ISP.
You can even swap routers without it causing a re-sync.
As I said earlier, your posts can be very confusing. Claiming to be technically literate and playing with advanced tools as you do, using the incorrect words makes things doubly difficult for all of us, as we assume you mean what you say. As will any ISP support staff, until they realise you are technically ignorant.
Expanding my quote you give here. If your modem was re-syncing every time you unplugged your router, that would have pointed to one or more of:
- a faulty connector;
- an internally damaged cable;
- a faulty power supply unit;
- a faulty power supply mains plug or socket;
- a faulty router;
- a faulty modem.
Correct statement of what problems you are getting is not optional. It is an absolute necessity. Try it .
Edit - typo.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Edited by RobertoS (Fri 22-Jun-12 08:57:34)
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I have literately tried every ISP. Plus,Orange,TalkTalk,AOL,02,BT Including a few others. How ever Plus have to be my first ISP that I was wanting to move to another ISP. as they truly suck.
I have to ask, if all the other ISPs were so good, why have you tried so many?
Changing ISP doesn't make any difference to physical connection properties, apart from perhaps when switching to a LLU connection.
I'm not changing ISP constantly please stop mixing things up. been using the internet for over 7 years. 02 was my longest provider with 3.5 years, How ever due to getting 1.5 MBps speed and then being offered up to 40 Mbps was a better choice. How ever would you pay 50 quid a month for phone / broadband ? Stop going off-subject this is regarding Plus Not helping with the issue.
Nothing is wrong with our internal wiring or modem this is due to a long progressing problem with DLM applying interleaving. BT Just sent out an engineer every time to reset it manually. How ever Plus Did say they sent out an Engineer and then said he could not gain access to the property. Yet I had no prior text from them before hand. Another Lie from Plus.
The last time we had this issue was about 6 months ago.
@Expanding my quote you give here. If your modem was re-syncing every time you unplugged your router, that would have pointed to one or more of:
@
Oh GOD!, AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE THE ROUTER GAINS PPoE A CONNECTION FROM THE VDSL MODEM EVERYONE KNOWS THIS! IF THE PPoE CONNECTION IS LOST YOU WILL LOOSE THE CONNECTION THE VDSL MODEM DOES NOT HAVE DIRECT CONNECTIVITY UNLESS YOU START A PPOE CONNECTION THROUGH IT. EXACTLY HOW THE ROUTER DOES!!!!!!! SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!
EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU CHANGE SOMETHING IN THE [censored] ROUTER PLUS PROVIDE YOU EVEN THE TRAFFIC STATS OR A WIRELESS SETTING IT FORCES THE ROUTER TO REFRESH THE PPOE CONNECTION MAKING PLUS THINK YOUR LINE IS UNSTABLE THAT IS WHY THE GRAPHS SHOW FREQUENT DISCONNECTIONS
GOOD BYE [censored] THIS FORUM I'm leaving Plus ANYWAY.
Edited by deleted (Fri 22-Jun-12 09:06:32)
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In your multitude of uploaded screenshots, I don't think we have seen an important piece of information. That is a listing of the raw modem stats from an xdslcmd info --stats command. There is information in there that I would really like to see.
If you done one, please can you point me to it again? If not, please open a WIndows Command Prompt window and telnet into the modem, as follows:-
telnet 192.168.1.1
(Enter the modem login and password)
sh
xdslcmd info --stats In the results screen, right click, then Select All from the popup menu. It will reverse to black on white. Press Return.
The results are now in your Clipboard. You can paste them into your reply, without having to upload them to anywhere, with possible visibility problems from doing that. Like this:- ATP>sh
BusyBox v1.9.1 (2010-10-15 17:59:06 CST) built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.
# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 2
Max: Upstream rate = 15393 Kbps, Downstream rate = 58752 Kb
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 1999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39997
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 14.5 20.2
Attn(dB): 0.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.6 0.4
VDSL2 framing
Path 0
B: 239 31
M: 1 2
T: 64 36
R: 0 16
S: 0.1910 0.9922
L: 10054 645
D: 1 1
I: 240 80
N: 240 80
Counters
Path 0
OHF: 15043907 940283
OHFErr: 308 6
RS: 0 1343408
RSCorr: 0 16
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Path 0
HEC: 46 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 3546667409 0
Data Cells: 2091163 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 1505 161
SES: 24 0
UAS: 38 38
AS: 46149
Path 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 3.05 13.39
delay: 0.00 0.00
OR: 62.83 57.33
Bitswap: 1482 107
Total time = 1 days 6 hours 33 min 19 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 11393 0
ES: 1505 161
SES: 24 0
UAS: 38 38
LOS: 5 0
LOF: 5 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 19 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 1 0
ES: 1 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 6 hours 33 min 19 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 25 0
ES: 21 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 2202 0
ES: 69 9
SES: 7 0
UAS: 20 20
LOS: 5 0
LOF: 5 0
Since Link time = 12 hours 49 min 9 sec
FEC: 0 16
CRC: 308 6
ES: 36 6
SES: 1 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
#
ATP>exit
exit from configuration console.
Connection to host lost.
C:\Users\Bob>
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Capitals and invoking the Almighty. The Red Mist again .
Really lost it. Calm down.
Incidentally, in reply to others earlier, you say you are not always changing ISP. Yet you say you were with one for 3.5 years, and in less than another 4.5 years you have used more than five others.
Hmmm.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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GOOD BYE [censored] THIS FORUM I'm leaving Plus ANYWAY.
You came here to seek help/advice, we gave you some helpful advices and you chose to ignore them.
I do hope you realise that if you switch to another ISP with FTTC, you will find the same issue as NO ISP can turn off/on the interleaving...
Either way, best of luck!
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If you done one, please can you point me to it again? The http://pastie.org/4128177 at foot of http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/t/4133665-r... and my further analysis of it
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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This thread is about Plus not honouring customers requests No, you started this thread about PN not turning Interleaving off, which they & others have repeatedly stated they have no facility to do so on VADSL, and your mistaken assertion that this is causing high error rates. You then morphed this technical issue into a rant about PN and a confusing comparison about what other ISPs may have done or not done.
Requests are not honoured; they are granted or not. It is agreements that are honoured, but in this case you had no rights for your request to be granted and PN rightly could not accede to your request.
May I remind you that you initiated the insults and I naturally retaliated
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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GOOD BYE [censored] THIS FORUM I'm leaving Plus ANYWAY.
You came here to seek help/advice, we gave you some helpful advices and you chose to ignore them.
I do hope you realise that if you switch to another ISP with FTTC, you will find the same issue as NO ISP can turn off/on the interleaving...
Either way, best of luck!
You are such a stubborn retard. I've had plenty of service providers over the span of maybe 8 years now?
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Thanks.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre 80/20 trial.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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It happened 9 days ago when I flashed the white openreach modem. Don't forget it also resyncs when you unplug your router. It most certainly does not. You are either confused or are just typing the first words that come into your mind.
All the time the Huawei HG612 modem is connected and powered up it will remain in synchronism with the Huawei DSLAM in the FTTC.
Disconnecting, power cycling, resetting, etc, your router will only cause your current PPPoE session to drop and then re-establish.
100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
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Minor correction to your post:
I am such a stubborn retard. I've had plenty of service providers over the span of maybe 8 years now?
jelv
Plusnet user since November 2001
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I've had plenty of service providers over the span of maybe 8 years now?
How many of these ISPs have provided you with FTTC over VDSL2 & of these, how many have been able to directly turn interleaving on & off at a customer's request?
I would like interleaving to be turned off for my connection, but I haven't yet found an ISP who says they can actually do that.
In fact, if memory serves me correctly, they have all stated that DLM automatically determines whether to apply interleaving or not & if so, at what depth.
I think it might just have something to do with how many errors it sees on a given connection, but I'm not sure.
I also have a very vague recollection that BT's own SIN 498 documentation also confirms that. However, I'm at that funny age now where my senses & memory often play tricks on me.
Are you far from the cabinet you are connected to?
If so, I wonder if that could have anything to do with the price of fish.
I'm afraid I can't now recall if I have asked you that previously.
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I've just realised his nick is a typo.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre 80/20 trial.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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You are such a stubborn retard. I've had plenty of service providers over the span of maybe 8 years now?
LOL, when all fails, you do personal attacks. This is not the place. Grow up.
P.S. thought you're leaving this forum? Miss us much?
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Your rudeness and insults say more about your good self than those who posted in a vain attempt to help you.
Not sure if you actually wanted help or just to stir the pot...whatever... this thread closed.
Any further posts with such insults your posting rights are likely to be suspended.
Closed..
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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chrisparr
