Plusnet Announce New Fibre Products

Information here - 40/10 on Value Fibre and 80/20 250GB allowance on Extra Fibre
http://community.plus.net/blog/2012/08/14/superfast-...
http://community.plus.net/8020-fibre-faq/

Excellent news. Thanks for posting . Now to study it all.

Basically, in my case, £1.50 monthly reduction for increased upload and download speed (well not actually in my case as I'm on the trial) and more than doubled usage allowance.

Edited by kasg (Tue 14-Aug-12 11:50:47)

These look much better than before, quite surprised with the 250GB limit if I'm honest!

I haven't seen any mention of traffic management, has anything changed in that area?

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

I haven't seen any mention of traffic management, has anything changed in that area?

It's the same as the 120GB product that preceded it.

Rgds,

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

These look much better than before, quite surprised with the 250GB limit if I'm honest!

Dangerously close to being a killer product at the price. Cue Plusnet bashers ...

Yes, I have been away from here since my previous post, and just looked at the website. Not looked at the Community link yet.

I thought the new Extra was cheaper than the old, and you've just confirmed it. Has to be worth considering at £3.50, though really I don't need it. 40/10 is fine technically. But, having been on the trial ....

In reply to a post by bpullen:

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

I haven't seen any mention of traffic management, has anything changed in that area?

It's the same as the 120GB product that preceded it.

Rgds,

Bob????

Am I missing something, but on this page there's no mention of the allowances. Only on the bundle pages.

There's also a few things wrong on the expanded pricing details on that page.

For example Value (low cost) >> Value Fibre (low cost) is £10, but Extra (low cost) >> Extra Fibre (low cost), is £8.50. So the closing sentence should say "from £8.50".

All low cost >> standard prices are "+£6.50" except Fibre Extra where it is "+£5.50". Is that intentional or an arithmetical error? If it is an error, then the "from £10" would be "from £9.50".

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Am I missing something, but on this page there's no mention of the allowances. Only on the bundle pages.

Yes there is, in great big numbers, 40GB and 250GB!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I thought the new Extra was cheaper than the old, and you've just confirmed it. Has to be worth considering at £3.50, though really I don't need it.

It actually seems incongruous that they haven't increased the Value Fibre allowance from 40GB.

In reply to a post by kasg:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Am I missing something, but on this page there's no mention of the allowances. Only on the bundle pages.

Yes there is, in great big numbers, 40GB and 250GB!

Arggggh! IE9 caching a cruddy page that I assume has now been fixed. It was definitely a new page as it has the 76/19.5 figures. I'll upload a screen shot later as I still have it in a tab.

Pricing details still odd.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 14-Aug-12 14:06:48)

In reply to a post by kasg:

It actually seems incongruous that they haven't increased the Value Fibre allowance from 40GB.

I don't know. Remember it's all about maximising revenue overall, and it's highly competitive now that it is 40/10 instead of 40/2.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Bob????

Am I missing something, but on this page there's no mention of the allowances. Only on the bundle pages.

I can see the allowances? They're displayed as images underneath the 'sticker' detailing the price. If you can't see them then try a forced refresh (CTRL and F5 on your keyboard).

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

There's also a few things wrong on the expanded pricing details on that page.

For example Value (low cost) >> Value Fibre (low cost) is £10, but Extra (low cost) >> Extra Fibre (low cost), is £8.50. So the closing sentence should say "from £8.50".

Ah, well observed! Suspect that's just an oversight.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

All low cost >> standard prices are "+£6.50" except Fibre Extra where it is "+£5.50". Is that intentional or an arithmetical error? If it is an error, then the "from £10" would be "from £9.50".

Intentional.

Rgds,

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Arggggh! IE9 caching a cruddy page that I assume has now been fixed. It was definitely a new page as it has the 76/19.5 figures. I'll upload a screen shot later as I still have it in a tab.

http://www.robertos.me.uk/incidentals/screenshots/PN...

Yes, as replied (edited) to kasg, it needed a refresh. But at one stage it was cruddy, see the screenshot I've just posted . Clearly new product as it shows the speeds, but the Find out more was screwed as well. SO I expect a simple HTML error on the page.

Chris had the same problem this morning the first time he tried going to the site following this morning's changes whereas I didn't. A cache refresh sorted it for him too.

Rgds,

It's interesting if you can only get the higher allowance on the faster package. With the new rules around advertising the "up to" will you be affected by people like me who might go for the high download limit that are showing we may only get 40Mb maximum speed on fibre due to distance from cabinet?

If lots of people like me signed up would you have to reduce the "up to" speed to stay within advertising requirements?

Of course, I can't actually get fibre till december and my speeds are estimates pre rollout but if I could get it I may well have been signing up - just wish you didn't force me to move my phone as well as that may well see me going elsewhere.

You don't have to move your phone but if you don't there is a £50 connection fee for new customers or £25 for existing customers https://portal.plus.net/fibre-broadband/broadband/
Look in the Legal bit

Edited by deleted (Tue 14-Aug-12 16:31:28)

In reply to a post by ian72:

just wish you didn't force me to move my phone as well as that may well see me going elsewhere.

????
You don't have to have Plusnet phone. Mine is with BT.

Look underneath the bundle info on this page and there is a banner with a button for fibre without phone.

In reply to a post by ian72:

If lots of people like me signed up would you have to reduce the "up to" speed to stay within advertising requirements?

Interesting question and if I'm honest I'm not 100% sure of the answer. I'll try and find out though ...

Edit: In fact looking at the figures, I can't see this happening. 10% of the 76Mbps base would need to achieve the advertised speed. A *lot* of sub-76Mbps customers would need to move across in order to skew this. It's not too dissimilar to a customer signing up for a copper product in a non-21CN enabled area.

Rgds,

Edited by deleted (Tue 14-Aug-12 16:47:30)

In reply to a post by bpullen:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

There's also a few things wrong on the expanded pricing details on that page.

For example Value (low cost) >> Value Fibre (low cost) is £10, but Extra (low cost) >> Extra Fibre (low cost), is £8.50. So the closing sentence should say "from £8.50".

Ah, well observed! Suspect that's just an oversight.

Should be getting fixed tomorrow.

Rgds,

What about the Pro addon? Is that still chargeable?

There hasn't been any reference to that changing so I assume that the £5 charge still applies for the new fibre products as it did on the old ones
This page still shows it http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/br...

Plusnet Pro Add-On

Plusnet Pro is an Add-On for broadband customers on Plusnet Value, Extra, Value Fibre or Extra Fibre.

Edited by deleted (Tue 14-Aug-12 17:27:09)

In reply to a post by ConorMK:

What about the Pro addon? Is that still chargeable?

Given that we've already been told that the traffic management on the new products is the same as on the old products then it has to be - there wouldn't me much point in having a Pro add-on if it were free!

If you dont ask you never know!!

If I select the new Fibre product from the change screen I assume some one in the back ground makes the required changes regarding the 18 month contract?

In reply to a post by ConorMK:

If I select the new Fibre product from the change screen I assume some one in the back ground makes the required changes regarding the 18 month contract?

If you are already on the 80/20 trial, they have said that the contract will be manually amended so that a new 18-month term is not started.

The email states:

Upgrading to Plusnet Extra Fibre is simple - just follow the link above, and your Plusnet Extra Fibre service will start on your next billing date.

So from this I assumed you had to raise the request to get it done.

In reply to a post by ConorMK:

So from this I assumed you had to raise the request to get it done.

Well yes, you just click on a few links and select a few options. The contract thing is separate and is different depending on whether you have been on the trial, but it doesn't affect how you upgrade.

Edited by kasg (Tue 14-Aug-12 18:34:21)

Just checking

In reply to a post by ConorMK:

The email states:

Upgrading to Plusnet Extra Fibre is simple - just follow the link above, and your Plusnet Extra Fibre service will start on your next billing date.

So from this I assumed you had to raise the request to get it done.

Because if you were on the trial and do nothing, around 14 September you will drop to 40/10. So anyone who wants it has to select it, or any other appropriate method. Just that triallists don't get a new 18 month contract.

Thanks.

I take it there is no need o change the router? Using the Netgear WNR1000. Only had one issue in that my wife's W7 laptop keeps losing the wireless connection. I have tried changing the channel but she hasn't been on long enough to test properly.

There's no need. I wonder if it is better than the Netgear in any way though.

I thought earlier about getting it, as I put the Netgear to sleep long ago. The jury's out on that one - it's only a fiver, and if you haven't a spare ....

I'm using my own Buffalo. Mmmm.

I've got the Netgear and the ZyXEL I got from being on the trial, no discernible difference in performance but the ZyXEL has gigabit LAN ports. I decided not to get yet another router!

Excellent. Kinda makes me glad that FTTC is delayed in my area now. The extra usage will be very welcome.

In reply to a post by ConorMK:

What about the Pro addon? Is that still chargeable?

Yes.

Rgds,

In reply to a post by ConorMK:

I take it there is no need to change the router? Using the Netgear WNR1000.

The 582n has a wider wireless bandwidth but you'll lose an ethernet port as one of them is used for the WAN connection to the VDSL modem.

Rgds,

In reply to a post by ConorMK:

If I select the new Fibre product from the change screen I assume some one in the back ground makes the required changes regarding the 18 month contract?

Yep, we'll adjust the contract behind the scenes once the switch is complete.

Rgds,

Ah right. Thanks for correcting me. Looks like I had only looked at the main fibre page and I didn't notice there was a bit slightly further down for fibre on its own. At least that is an option for me then.

Thanks Bob. In some ways I think it shows that the advertising requirements for up to are still not strong enough but I also think it is difficult for an ISP if they have a lot of users on longer lines.

Thanks for the replies, Bob.

i have requested the change via the link in the email.

"now that it is 40/10 instead of 40/2"

I am on the 40/2 version. Will it automatically change to 40/10 or do I need to do something?

It should be automatic:

In reference to community.plus.net/8020-fibre-faq/:

I�m on the old 38Mbps Extra Fibre product, will I be moved to the new 76Mbps Extra Fibre automatically?
No, you�ll remain on your current product and the terms of your contract will stay the same including the price you pay us each month. You�ll continue to receive the best speed your line is capable of up to 38Mbps and your usage allowance will stay the same. As a token of good will, we�ll be increasing your upload speed from 1.9Mbps to up to 9.5Mbps for free.

I�m on the old 38Mbps Extra Fibre product, can I switch to the new 76Mbps Extra Fibre?
Absolutely! To take advantage of the increased speed (where available), increased usage and new price point, just head over to our website where you can upgrade online. Changing to the new product will renew your 18-month fibre contract.

I�m a 38Mbps Value Fibre customer, can I upgrade to the new Extra Fibre product?
Of course, the terms are exactly the same as those for 38Mbps Extra Fibre customers (see above).

Edit: actually, reading that again, it only mentions explicitly an automatic upgrade to 40/10 for existing Extra Fibre customers, and assuming they are happy with staying with Plusnet there would be no point in their not upgrading to the new 80/20 product because its cheaper and has more than double the usage allowance. However, I believe that Value Fibre customers will also be upgraded to 40/10 automatically, they are not selling 40/2 any more. Perhaps a rep could confirm.

Edited by kasg (Tue 21-Aug-12 18:09:58)

It will happen progressively from Sept 12th

@Chris - It's definitely starting in September though as far as I'm aware there aren't any dates set as yet, but it'll be happening for everyone already on the 40/2 product (unless they upgrade to 80/20 in which case it won't be needed).

ETA: The bulk upgrades will be starting from the 14th September.

Edited by deleted (Wed 22-Aug-12 14:56:34)

I get 38/8.5 Mbps at the moment. Does anybody know why I might be estimated at only 56/18 Mbps on the plusnet check?

Thanks

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

I get 38/8.5 Mbps at the moment. Does anybody know why I might be estimated at only 56/18 Mbps on the plusnet check?

What product are you on? Your use of the word "only" is a little strange!

Are you on the 40/10 or 80/20 product at this time?

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

I get 38/8.5 Mbps at the moment. Does anybody know why I might be estimated at only 56/18 Mbps on the plusnet check?

Thanks

That sounds like speedtest results, not connection speeds. What's the problem with a 56/18 estimate for the 80/20 product?

The speed you get on FTTC depends upon the distance to the cabinet - do you know where your cabinet is?

The routing is of course never precisely definable, but anywhere between 150 and 300m. I forgot to add I have a latency of 9ms.

That's why I used the phrase only. If I am near the max on my existing 40Mbps product (Aquiss) why does that not translate to the 80 product?

I only used the plusnet availability checker, but remember several months ago the BT site telling me the same thing. I also remember the BT estimate being 30Mbps prior to ordering FTTC, so I understand the usual ambiguity. I just wondered if there may be a technical reason instead when stretching the lines capability, so to speak?

In reply to a post by kasg:

What product are you on? Your use of the word "only" is a little strange

I thought merely sounded a little snobbish.

The max for a line could be 40Mb. The only difference between the 40 and 80 products is that they increase the cap - the technology is the same. Many lines will go 40Mb but see next to no increase when going to 80 product.

No problem, just interested.

And absolutely, categorically no snobbery of any sort whatsoever, and you can't prove otherwise!

In reply to a post by ian72:

The max for a line could be 40Mb. The only difference between the 40 and 80 products is that they increase the cap - the technology is the same. Many lines will go 40Mb but see next to no increase when going to 80 product.

Thanks, that's what I was expecting. I just wasn't sure what the technical reasons could be though probably cable type and environment related?

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

If I am near the max on my existing 40Mbps product (Aquiss)

That gives a clue to the reason. If you were getting the absolute Max possible on 40/10 you'd get a significant increase on 80/20. If you are near the limit already, uncapping which doesn't change the technology isn't going to give you an automatic increase to near the maximum on 80/20.

If you were getting around 35 on 40/10 it's even possible you might even see a small drop on 80/20 because of the increase in upload (I've seen a posting where that happened).

So I assume those receiving 76 Mbps must be particularly close to their cabinet?

Within 100 to 250m usually.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/fibre-broadband.... they are a bit pessmistic, but were based on eventual take-up levels and the resulting cross talk.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/fibre-broadband.... they are a bit pessmistic, but were based on eventual take-up levels and the resulting cross talk.

They seem a lot pessimistic to me (IP profile just under 70Mbps at 450m and I've heard of full speed at that distance).

Edited by kasg (Tue 11-Sep-12 10:52:13)

I think if your next door neighbour was also on FTTC and was using another pair in the same cable as you for much of the run from the cabinet to your homes that 70Mbps would drop significantly.

And yet the doom mongers still claim those figures are far too fast.

You could be right - I wouldn't be surprised if I were the only person on the street with FTTC.

I've had FTTC for 15 months now, started at 32Mbps (for first three months). Then dropped to 27Mbps and has been pretty stable at that speed since then (+/- 1Mbps).

My line currently shows max of 25Mbps, but am getting sync'd at just over 26. The estimate seems spot on as I'm somewhere between 900 and 1000 metres from my cabinet.

I'm fingers crossed that vectoring becomes a reality at some point so that my speed may get a bump up to the 50 / 60 Mbps mark (wishful thinking? FTTH on demand may kybosh any plans for it too)...

Vectoring is a coupe of years away, but on demand may help as people jump onto that reduces cross talk.

Depends on the pricing, and appeal 100 and 300 Meg products.

I suppose this is the way broadband has always worked, improvements keep on coming as the technology advances.

I've had thoughts about on demand and how it may work. I wonder if BT will allow "community" on demand requests, i.e. will it be a more reasonable cost if several like minded people are fed off the same (or serial) street level manholes and all order at the same time?

Questions

As I am already on FTTC, if I supply my own router and self install it on the extra fibre package:

1. Will the contract still be 18 months?
2. Do I have to take the phone line?
3. Should I take the phone line as opposed to BT?
4. Has anybody got the link for the max speeds per activity chart?

Would like to ring and sign up tonight as I dont like doing it online.

Thanks.

My understanding is that the price will not be the full cost of getting the hardware installed, since bits like the fibre splitter (32 fibre lines), and manifold (12 lines) will be shared out.

So you would probably just part part of the costs, and Openreach gamble on others in the future signing up.

Regarding contract length on a migration - it has never been raised but I suspect that it will still be 18 months
You don't have to take the phone line
Regarding the phone line it is up to you - it is a bit cheaper than BT but a couple of things could affect your decision. Premium rate blocking isn't available and on a phone fault you don't get free transfer to a mobile
Max speed chart is here http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/do...

In reply to a post by Oldjim:

Regarding contract length on a migration - it has never been raised but I suspect that it will still be 18 months
You don't have to take the phone line
Regarding the phone line it is up to you - it is a bit cheaper than BT but a couple of things could affect your decision. Premium rate blocking isn't available and on a phone fault you don't get free transfer to a mobile
Max speed chart is here http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/do...

Thanks for that.

The link shows no difference between Value and Extra fibre whatsoever, so I guess it is something to do with the traffic management policy.

It is indeed
Regarding the two products Value is 40/10 and Extra is 80/20 in terms of absolute maximum speed

Thanks. Ive just been informed that I would have to take another router even though I have 3 already! It cannot be removed from the package.

There should be some sort of discount for not taking it really.

https://portal.plus.net/residential/faqs.shtml#newRo... as it says here

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

There should be some sort of discount for not taking it really.

Like £4.99, which is what you pay for having it! I expect it will be optional eventually but so many people probably only have ADSL routers at present that I expect they make it compulsory to avoid confusion.

In reply to a post by kasg:

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

There should be some sort of discount for not taking it really.

Like £4.99, which is what you pay for having it! I expect it will be optional eventually but so many people probably only have ADSL routers at present that I expect they make it compulsory to avoid confusion.

Answering a couple of points from other posters as well, otherwise it gets messy.

I migrated in onto Value Fibre from an IDNet fibre 40/10 product. The 18-month minimum term definitely applies to Value and Extra Fibre on such a migration.

As I already had a "fibre" router it was not compulsory for me to take the Plusnet freebie, but for the sake of £4.99 I decided it was worthwhile. I am surprised that anyone is being told it is now compulsory, (presumably on the 80/20 product). Similarly, I have just upgraded to Extra Fibre from the 80/20 trial, and did not have to take the new router. I am taking it to see what the wireless is like.

If of course there is some misunderstanding, and the poster being told this does not have a router with WAN input capability, then it would be fair enough. Just badly worded, and meaning such a router is necessary. (Unless a single ethernet feed from the modem is sufficient. I expect a high proportion of users these days would be flummoxed by setting up a Windows internet connection).

I had read this off of the Plusnet Fibre page after the live chat advisor had told me the same thing.

16. Will I need a new router?

Yes. A wireless fibre router is supplied (P&P £4.99) with all fibre packages. We'll make sure it arrives before or on your installation day.

We strongly recommend using the router we supply. However, if you're an experienced Internet user you can try using your own router if you'd prefer, but please note:It's not possible to order fibre optic broadband without our router
The majority of current broadband routers won't work with fibre broadband
Most cable routers will work with fibre broadband if they can use PPPoE and have an Ethernet WAN port
If you're a Wi-Fi user, we recommend a Wireless-N or better router. This is because Wireless-G based equipment can't handle the high speeds of fibre broadband
If you use your own router we can't provide support if you have problems with it If you want to use your own router, but you're not sure if it'll work with fibre broadband just check with us first.

Note: You'll get also get a free BT fibre modem which your fibre router will plug into. The BT engineer will bring you your free modem on your installation day.

I noticed elsewhere that they cannot remove the router from the packages. I will still sign up, but I feel it is a bit wasteful to be pushing products onto people that are already on fibre. I felt the same when on ADSL.

Anyhow, I have decided to sign up on the value package for the time being, as without the pro add on there appears only to minimal traffic management differences.

In reply to a post by kasg:

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

There should be some sort of discount for not taking it really.

Like £4.99, which is what you pay for having it! I expect it will be optional eventually but so many people probably only have ADSL routers at present that I expect they make it compulsory to avoid confusion.

Its more about the waste rather than the cost, but that router with P & P will cost more than £4-99 so I'm pretty sure there is subsidy in there somewhere as well.

In reply to a post by Oldjim:

https://portal.plus.net/residential/faqs.shtml#newRo... as it says here

Thanks for that, though there appears to be some conflicting advice on there!