Customer Service - surprisingly disappointing

Just a quick post to ask how people are finding the usually excellent customer service via the Help and Support section of the website a the moment.

I've been in contact with them over the course of the last seven days regarding a problem with my connection since it transferred to ADSL2+ and have found the response time and amount of information very poor. Hopefully this is not going to become the norm, but I just wondered how people generally get on with the system?

Edited by deleted (Sat 22-Sep-12 12:22:25)

Hi,

Their is often a tndancy for support to not read tickets fully and to reply with very much off-page or template responses, particularly where the issue is a little more complex than basic service issues.

More to the point, what issue are you having? - I have seen a few connections go 'bad' after ADSL2+ regrades and it is often caused by either:

1) ADSL2+ highlights extension wiring issues that were not an issue on standard ADSL connections, i.e. yu need to filter at master socket and plug router into master - or run ONE unfiltered pair to where the router is..

2) Some router's firmware don't work well after regrade, e.g. Netgear DG834PN have near zero throughput if not on latest firmware but appear to connect OK - but at a lower sync speed than expected (e.g. 0.1 Mbps throughput - and 4Mbps sync, but 14Mbps Sync and 13Mbps throughput after firmware upgrade) - I've had two of these in the last fortnight on different exchanges.

What is your experience / problem?

Edited by TechGuyUK (Sat 22-Sep-12 13:15:53)

Basically although I knew it was going to switch sometime in a 5 week period, it did so without specific notification and I didn't have time to change the old Belkin router. I went through a couple of days of very frequent disconnections (sometimes every few minutes) before popping in a Netgear DG834Gv5. Consequently the IP and sync dropped to levels below what I had before.

Previously the line was rock solid, syncing at 7600. Now I have removed the cordless phones from the equation (they had started causing disconnections with the NetGear) the line is now stable again and I just want whatever needs resetting (SNR etc) resetting to get me back up the speed which I know the line is capable of!

I have kept the team (first general and then faults) informed all the way but the communication back is sporadic or non-existent unfortunately.

It's so frustrating when I'm doing all I can to help them out by providing a wealth of information.

Is it an issue with uncapping upload speed?

I've been considering a return to Plusnet for 21CN WBC but there did seem to be some confusion when I spoke to sales about uncapping the upstream sync...it was even mentioned, probably incorrectly, that there would have to be "technical reasons" for the uncapping to be necessary

Edit: sorry I was writing this post whilst you posted your reply above. However I have heard that adding to PN tickets before receiving a reply can cause them to be put to the back of the queue.

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 22-Sep-12 13:24:48)

Hi,

You're rather barking up the wrong tree expecting support to understand the vaguaries of your wiring and equipment - you're likely to only get stock responses along the line of "if removing your equipment improves the situation, then that's the problem"

I would suggest noting the sync speed and SNR from the router AS IS, along with a speed test from speedtest.net using the london namesco host and then compare to using the router on its own connected to the test socket, i.e. NO internal wiring. When you see a big improvement, you have proved the issue to most likely be your extension wiring. If there is a BIG different in sync speed, the speed test won't improve until the profile resets - but the difference in Sync is enough to prove the point.

Have you checked if your router firmware is up to date?

Edited by TechGuyUK (Sat 22-Sep-12 13:17:36)

No issues with wiring etc, as I've explained to them. No difference between text socket, master socket and extensions now. It's just a chance for the line to start again that is needed. Anyway, drifting off topic...

Still no update from them regarding my problem for two days, despite me adding current info to the ticket.

In reply to a post by offbeatdave:

Still no update from them regarding my problem for two days, despite me adding current info to the ticket.

I agree with

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Edit: sorry I was writing this post whilst you posted your reply above. However I have heard that adding to PN tickets before receiving a reply can cause them to be put to the back of the queue.

This has been posted several times in the past.

However I have heard that adding to PN tickets before receiving a reply can cause them to be put to the back of the queue.

I had started to wonder if this was the case, so I'm giving the ticket updates a rest for a while!

Hi,

We can't really help here in any case as you havn't provided any of the requested information or line stats to help investigate the problem.

As always, you can call PN support free and get an instant response and deal with more involved issues directly with them if you so wish.

Well the moral of the story is phone up if possible and speak to a real person. The guy on the phone quickly read through my info, listened to what I had to say, went away to investigate if anything could be reset quicker than the classic 'wait until it's been stable for 72 hours' (it couldn't) but restored some faith in PlusNet! Fingers crossed...

There is no 72 hour anything on your connection! That disappeared in August 2008.

As TechGuyUK said.

In reply to a post by TechGuyUK:

What is your experience / problem?

and

In reply to a post by TechGuyUK:

We can't really help here in any case as you havn't provided any of the requested information or line stats to help investigate the problem

Given details of the problem, router stats, the complete text results of a BT Performance test and your Plusnet Line Rate from the Member Centre >> Connection settings, we may be able to help.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

As TechGuyUK said.

In reply to a post by TechGuyUK:

What is your experience / problem?

and

In reply to a post by TechGuyUK:

We can't really help here in any case as you havn't provided any of the requested information or line stats to help investigate the problem

Given details of the problem, router stats, the complete text results of a BT Performance test and your Plusnet Line Rate from the Member Centre >> Connection settings, we may be able to help.

PN ticketing still seems a bit messy though: they could have perhaps done a dsl diagnostic test and compared it with his PN "Line Rate"?

Yes. But with the info requested we would know if that was the issue and he could cut through the waffle and tell them what was wrong .

For instance, if the 72 hours was just quoted to him as the time for an IP Profile update, that means the nice friendly guy he spoke to hadn't a clue.
_{Edit - typo.}

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 23-Sep-12 16:15:32)

http://community.plus.net/forum/?topic=107758.msg920094 - see reply #10, that's probably for 20CN though!

Maybe PN support is a little confused about the difference between ADSL MAX and 21CN WBC in the case of our OP's problem

As a point of interest, I wonder if the OP there is the one we have here?

As for that reply #'10, unfortunately he is simply incorrect. That was scrapped in August 2008 2007, see my note on this page. The explanation above it applied to both ADSL Max and WBC (21CN) up until very recently, when for WBC it was replaced by the current instantaneous (on the BT Wholesale side) update to ~88.2% of sync. Error conditions excepted.

Eeeeek! It looks as though I have the year wrong on my website. It was 2007.

Take a look at the date on [cough][cough] this Plusnet blog I have just found, and have a read of it.

The writer there seems to have confused that announcement slightly with the pre-existing blip logic which was in fact scrapped at the same time. That was introduced during the life of the old system and allowed for rapid reversion of IP Profile to a higher value if there was a short blip. The system described replaced the old system and the blip logic, as it runs as described however long the low sync existed.
_{Edit - Corretcion of 2008 to 2007 as I have the year wrong on my website.}

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 23-Sep-12 17:28:50)

Blip logic.

Deleted as I didn't read the post properly

Edited by deleted (Sun 23-Sep-12 17:23:38)

thinkbroadband IP Profile description. Agreeing with my website, apart from the date!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

thinkbroadband IP Profile description. Agreeing with my website, apart from the date!

And:

"How can I find out what my IP Profile is?
A number of broadband providers expose the setting on their customer portal as the BRAS Data Rate or IP Profile. So you can login and see what the current value is and how it has changed. Broadband providers get informed of each change to the IP Profile so in theory if a provider stores this information it should be available to help desk staff. NOTE: In some providers only second line support may have the ability to see the information."

That's the Plusnet "Line Rate" I asked him to look at, and may be the problem. We need to see the line stats and BT version of it, as that could be wrong anyway

(See the Plusnet page in my ISP tips section , and also it is mentioned on my old IP Profile page).

OP said: "Basically although I knew it was going to switch sometime in a 5 week period, it did so without specific notification and I didn't have time to change the old Belkin router. I went through a couple of days of very frequent disconnections (sometimes every few minutes) before popping in a Netgear DG834Gv5. Consequently the IP and sync dropped to levels below what I had before."

So you are definitely correct with regards to the OP checking the PN "Line Rate" etc. etc. but never-the-less PN have not been very helpful this issue...

In reply to a post by 4M2:

... but never-the-less PN have not been very helpful this issue...

Did I say otherwise? I thought all my posts to him have been to try to get the info we need to kick their backsides? My recent posts to you have been to answer your queries and apparent doubts about what I've said to him.

Your posts, links to your site and other links have been very helpful and extremely informative and not for one moment did I doubt your words. Hopefully they will be of benefit both to the OP and others reading this thread. Certainly they have been enlightening with regard to IP Profiles and other DSL technical issues as far as I am concerned

Would just like to say thanks for all the reference material noted here. Most interesting. FYI, I haven't posted elsewhere about this. The aim of the post was simply to see what people's experience of customer service was, but the technical bits were most interesting. Thank you!

BTW: Historically there has never been issue with the connection at my end. The issue with the line at the moment is the noise margin now being too high as a result of the multiple disconnections experienced due to equipment issues (see here) and I am just trying to ascertain from PN whether it needs a forced reset or whether it would readjust of its own accord. Apart from a couple of reboots myself over the last two days (accidentally whilst doing other stuff on the network) it has been absolutely rock solid with no unexpected disconnections whatsoever.

As I say, thanks for the info. I won't take up any more of people's time here at the moment, but if I get no further with this I'll be back with all the stats in a dedicated thread! There are still clearly a plethora of knowledgeable folk in this community, which is fantastic! Sincerely, many thanks!

Ummmm.

If that's the first 10 days on ADSL2+ there will be two issues.

First, you infer that the sync-time noise margin has been raised. Probably to 15db? Given a stable line from now on, in most cases that will be lowered automatically by 3dB at 10-14 day intervals. Each drop yielding 750-1200kbps on most lines. If no drop occurs 14 days after stability started then manual intervention is needed by Plusnet.

Second - that is not the best course of action if it occurred in the first 10 days. The main purpose of the 10 day period is to set the MSR and FTR. There is a myth, reinforced by BT Wholesale and nearly all support staff, that "line training" is occurring during the ten days. This is twaddle, but the support staff are screwed by their training and management.

Have a read of this page.

If your line is now stable, you need a rerun of the initial 10 days. Otherwise whatever happens to the noise margin and speeds discussed first here, if and when you get low speeds again in the future due to an external fault, no-one will listen, as you will probably still be above the far too low FTR.

A rerun sets it all to defaults, so giving you an immediate return to normal.

Though one could be much more certain of the above if you could be bothered to give the figures you have ben asked for. What's the problem with that? You like pain?

In reply to a post by TechGuyUK:

Their is often a tndancy for support to not read tickets fully and to reply with very much off-page or template responses, particularly where the issue is a little more complex than basic service issues.

I think this just about sums things up.

Get the right person and they can be very helpful, but unfortunately this can take several attempts.

if you could be bothered to give the figures you have ben asked for. What's the problem with that?

Sorry, but the thread wasn't set up for this. Appreciate the offer though.

Hi there,

I'm just letting you know that I've actioned and replied to your support ticket.

I'm sorry that you've not had a response since raising this and would urge you to let me know via here or your post on our community forum if you need any further support relating to this matter.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I stress again, this thread was just regarding the response times from CS, not an attempt to fix the problem (but thanks again to those who have offered support). I will keep the tech stuff my post on the community site. Sorry for having to raise it in this way but the support I'm receiving now restores my faith in PN somewhat!

No problem and I'll look out for further responses from you on there.

Adam