More about plusnet and questions ect ect

Right I have some more questions and things to say, so will post here instead of making two or three separate threads.

Yesterday I posted here http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/dslrouter/f/4181037... and asked about flashing the TG582n router, as I was planing to buy my own version and not buy one from plusnet.

I have now found out that it's compulsory to have a router from plusnet if you go for fibre. Well I'm not to happy about that and paying £40 for a brick. Lol.

16. Will I need a new router?
Yes. A wireless fibre router is supplied (P&P £4.99) with all fibre packages. We'll make sure it arrives before or on your installation day.
We strongly recommend using the router we supply. However, if you're an experienced Internet user you can try using your own router if you'd prefer, but please note:
�It's not possible to order fibre optic broadband without our router�The majority of current broadband routers won't work with fibre broadband

https://portal.plus.net/residential/faqs.shtml#newRo...

While I was searching answers to my other thread. I found this.

The 582n is not a fibre router - it is an ADSL (2+) modem/router/wifi-AP. So they must supply a different one for fibre connections.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p...

So the TG582n is not really ment for fibre but is a ADSL2+ router. I already have two ADSL2+ routers and don't want to pay £40 for another one. This also could have implications on speed as it don't do VDSL. No gigabit ethernet either.

Could a plusnet rep please confirm if you take plusnet fiber you get the tg582n or a diffrent version?

Anway You have no choice but to have the supplied modified/bodged ADSL2+ router. Could plusnet please make it optional or at least get a descent full VDSL complaint router.


Now If I get fibre installed I want to check that no problems will be had. My router is right next to the phone socket so should not be a problem but I use a 10M ethernet cable to connect to my computer as it's over the other side of the room. I don't have any problems with this setup and is much better than a telephone extension wire.

Wll BT openreach have any issues with this? I hope not as all is well and the only way. Moving the socket is not and option unless openreach is prepared to run a decent extension and box, closer to my computer. Think that is worse than a 10M ethernet cable.

Thats all folks, for now. Will post if I have any more questions or things to say.

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Nov-12 19:16:32)

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/hardware/techn...

BT Openreach modem + Technicolor 582n router.

The TG582 can operate as an Ethernet router, hence the pages someone linked to.

Plusnet CANNOT supply a full VDSL router (i.e. dispense with Openreach modem) as no wires-only service is available at this time.

I don't see the problem with paying the £4.99 delivery for a device that is worth £40. You only pay £40 if you leave within 12 months.

A little googling suggest the Ethernet mode (re-purposing of LAN port 4) is a standard feature of the router.

Plusnet is very much a low priced service, and part of that is achieved by using standard hardware etc makes support easier. If you want and need a more bespoke solution there are other providers of course, just like buying clothes, take the ready made or opt for a tailored approach.

Well the way I see it (and I'm thinking of moving to PN for the FTTP trial) is that I take the PN supplied router, set it up in accordance with their instructions, make sure the service works, then disconnect it, put it in my "spares bin" and swap in my Billion router. If I get any problems and need to contact CS I simply swap back the PN router so we can all follow the faults script

Again you seem to have the wrong end of the stick.

The TG582n can equally be used as an Ethernet router, cutting out its ADSL modem. Do you honestly believe that PN would be supplying it for their Fibre packages if it didn't work on Fibre? The Fibre modem is supplied by OR.

You don't pay £40 for it. It is free bar the £4.99 P&P.

Methinks you doth protest too much about PN. You are constantly finding spurious faults with it w/out actually being a customer. If you don't want to go there, then don't. I am getting browned off with your constant verbose carping about them.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Methinks you doth protest too much about PN. You are constantly finding spurious faults with it w/out actually being a customer. If you don't want to go there, then don't. I am getting browned off with your constant verbose carping about them.

It is getting rather tedious, isn't it? It's beginning to sound like someone else who will never be happy with any ISP and will keep asking the same questions over and over despite getting loads of help from ISP reps and other users.

In reply to a post by superspeed:

Now If I get fibre installed I want to check that no problems will be had. My router is right next to the phone socket so should not be a problem but I use a 10M ethernet cable to connect to my computer as it's over the other side of the room. I don't have any problems with this setup and is much better than a telephone extension wire.

Wll BT openreach have any issues with this? I hope not as all is well and the only way. Moving the socket is not and option unless openreach is prepared to run a decent extension and box, closer to my computer. Think that is worse than a 10M ethernet cable.

No, they will not care two hoots about it, that is perfectly normal and acceptable as minimal research here and elsewhere would have told you. Ethernet (Cat5) is fine up to 100m. You can have Ethernet runs of this length between your computer and the router and between the router and the modem.

Edited by kasg (Sun 18-Nov-12 18:08:26)

Methinks you doth protest too much about PN. You are constantly finding spurious faults with it w/out actually being a customer. If you don't want to go there, then don't. I am getting browned off with your constant verbose carping about them.

I am a potential customer and am allowed to question or ask questions, if you don't like that, then don't reply to me or get off my thread. Your not even a plusnet customer yourself. All you do is moan like and old man about what I say, since I got here. Same to kevin as I said above. Thank you very much.

See this so I don't keep repeating myself
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/t/4179643-r...

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Nov-12 18:31:59)

Thank you, a more constructive comment from yourself. I had to check as I did not want to end up with a bill for no service.

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Nov-12 18:31:18)

You are correct Mr Saffron that it would be free after 12 months but that is assuming, I get the service I require. I am a little concerned about the amount of unhappy new customers on the PN forum at the moment. http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?board=49.0

I don't have a problem with £4.99 but plusnet FORCE you to have their £40 brick ADSL+2 router.

40 quid is a lot of money for a bogstandard ADSL+2 router when I could put that towards some thing like this. http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?...

Thats the point I am trying to make. I also could of bought one for about £10 off ebay and even amazon is cheaper for a generic version with free P&P.

The router also has poor reviews, so to me, is not worth £40 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Technicolour-TG582n-Port-Wir...

Plusnet is very much a low priced service, and part of that is achieved by using standard hardware etc makes support easier. If you want and need a more bespoke solution there are other providers of course, just like buying clothes, take the ready made or opt for a tailored approach.

Are you saying I will get a low priced service as well then?

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Nov-12 19:13:45)

I'm fed up and I've only been reading the thread.

Since with fibre you are signing up for an 18 month contract the 12 month tie in for the router is irrelevant

In reply to a post by superspeed:

Same to kevin as I said above. Thank you very much.

OK, I won't waste any more time replying to you and save my energies for people that actually take some notice, rather than keep asking until they get the answer they want (which seems to be, "Plusnet are rubbish, go somewhere else").

In reply to a post by superspeed:

See this so I don't keep repeating myself
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/t/4179643-r...

Yes, we know. Oh, how we know.

OK, I won't waste any more time replying to you and save my energies for people that actually take some notice, rather than keep asking until they get the answer they want (which seems to be, "Plusnet are rubbish, go somewhere else").

How the hell am i asking the same questions? These are new and nothing to do with P2P. Can't you read correctly?

Good! your a pain like ray is. Don't reply to my threads ever again. Nothing worse than a plusnet fanboy. Your on ignore with AEP as well. Shakes head.

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Nov-12 19:06:55)

Thanks for the reply jim but what mr saffron means is, if you leave within 12 months of your 18 month contract, you have to pay £40 for the router.

Plusnet told me that themselfs.

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Nov-12 19:08:23)

I don't know if I should even bother checking about this at this rate. The trolls are pushing me towards BT fibre.


I know this is a bit cheeky.
So I don't have to pay £50 setup. I am thinking of getting basic broadband first. It is correct that I won't have to pay the rest of the 12 month contract if I ipgrade.

It will just be on 18 month contract?

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Nov-12 19:14:38)

You are a bit incorrect - whether upgrading from ADSL or going straight in with fibre the £50 charge stands unless you take the phone option

In reply to a post by superspeed:

The trolls are pushing me towards BT fibre.

You are leading them by the nose

BTW: You don't own any threads that you can ban us from.

This is true, but you would also be potentially paying 6 months fees for ending the contract early too.

So unless you plan on leaving in under 12 months do you have to worry about the £40. Is that what you plan? In which case you MUST also research the costs of leaving Plusnet early with respect to the 18 month contract part too.

In reply to a post by superspeed:

I don't know if I should even bother checking about this at this rate. The trolls are pushing me towards BT fibre.

Here's an idea. Sign up with Plusnet and if you don't like them, switch to BT. Or sign up with BT and if you don't like them, switch to Plusnet.

I remember a previous Plusnet user that had reservations about one aspect of their product setup prior to signing up. However, said person signed up, then whinged about it. Me, I wouldn't have signed up. Choose, knowing the deal, and appreciate the choice was made, knowing the deal.

Right ok. Unless I got this wrong, I'm sure it said £25 upgrade for existing customers.

Anyway I would not save anything as it's still £25 broadband activation for basic ADSL. http://www.plus.net/broadband/?source=mainNav

PN told me at first, their would be no remaining contract to pay if I upgraded to fibre. Thats why I thought I better double check. Glad I did. I won't save anything anyway as I was saying to jim and he is right as well.

I will have to wait and see if I can get more than 25 quid from the likes of topcashback. That will help pay for my connect if I go with PN.

Well I guess I will have to except the £40 crummy router if I go PN but no way am I going to pay that amount for it. I hope PN takes my advice about giving customers the option of a router in future. Not compulsory.

PN could of bought a load of used cable routers, I would of been happy to pay upto 20 quid for it, instead.

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Nov-12 23:20:25)

Now thats a bit silly isn't it cams? I havent got money to burn and as it's 18 months contract. That's why I need to make sure what i'm signing up to, is what I will get and suitable for me.

If it was 12 months then maybe yes. If you have plenty of money, why don't you give it a try. You can tell me which one is better then.

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Nov-12 23:29:31)

Leaving a provide while in a contract is very different to upgrading from one product to another while in the minimum contract term

Lol and a load of used routers would have been second hand for a start and old to the point that not really suitable for the FTTC service in terms of speed and wireless performance

Ensuring all customers have the same hardware they can check where there is a fault is a good way of keeping costs low overall.

I can't get fibre, so it doesn't apply.

My point being, it's fine doing the research, but you seem to have too many reservations about both providers. Might you consider a third, or just take the plunge if the service is within your ideal parameters. If not, sit back and wait. I don't think you have to take a fibre solution.

If the 18-month contract is the bugbear, there's no avoiding it for fibre, as far as I know.

Well as I said before, it's not easy to chose for many reasons.

Their is no third. I had a short list before an BT, PN are the one's left. If my usage was about 50Gb or less, I would of gone for a smaller provider.

I am looking at cashback offers but not a lot that is worth anything at the moment. What's the hope that plusnet will have a January sale and give free connection for new broadband customers in new year.

If only Plusnet and BT amalgamated and just called themselfs, "BT PLUSNET" I would only have one option then wouldn't I.

Edited by deleted (Mon 19-Nov-12 00:41:47)

In reply to a post by superspeed:

I had a short list before an BT, PN are the one's left. If my usage was about 50Gb or less, I would...

Being nosey, and because I'm considering (once my exchange is enabled for FTTC, perhaps in December) upgrading, you'd list the ones you looked at and what made you decide against them. If you don't want to do that in public, a private message would be appreciated.

What's the hope that plusnet will have a January sale and give free connection for new broadband customers in new year.

Regarding that, I read that Openreach are reducing the cost as a special offer, but it may not apply for you (think it may help me though, as it's a 50 quid reduction in cost for first 6 months... so I can see if PN will waive the 50 or 25 quid fee, as they will save at the time, if I get a new line from them too).


From Openreach Price List
Up to 40Mbit/s downstream and up to 2Mbit/s upstream - where the service is provided as part of a new copper line provision on either MPF or WLR 01/01/2013 30/06/2013 30.00

Being nosey, and because I'm considering (once my exchange is enabled for FTTC, perhaps in December) upgrading, you'd list the ones you looked at and what made you decide against them. If you don't want to do that in public, a private message would be appreciated.

It's no secret. If you see my post linked below, that was basically my short list. You have to remember my need's may not be the same as yourself but main reason's are, price, data allowance, traffic manage or not, connection charge. The emotion icons says what I like and don't like about them. The others were to expensive and not enough GB data for the price. Thats my reason for selecting PN and BT.


http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/which_isp/4177389-f...

Now it's even harder because it's just two left. Their is plus and minus points between both BT and Plusnet but really nothing too substantial between them.

Regarding that, I read that Openreach are reducing the cost as a special offer, but it may not apply for you (think it may help me though, as it's a 50 quid reduction in cost for first 6 months... so I can see if PN will waive the 50 or 25 quid fee, as they will save at the time, if I get a new line from them too).

Yes that appears to be for a brand new line and would not apply to me as I already have a line setup. If you take the phone as well with PN, is free connection. Like many isp's, they can have their own offers.

PN if it wanted to, could offer free connection but it would be at the isp cost.

Edited by deleted (Tue 20-Nov-12 23:28:46)

In reply to a post by superspeed:

it's compulsory to have a router from plusnet if you go for fibre

Is there anything wrong with the router they supply?

It does mean there is one less thing for them to blame if things go wrong.

In reply to a post by superspeed:

I havent got money to burn and as it's 18 months contract. That's why I need to make sure what i'm signing up to, is what I will get and suitable for me.

If it was 12 months then maybe yes. If you have plenty of money, why don't you give it a try. You can tell me which one is better then.

I wouldn't bother signing up for ADSLx prior to FTTC being available to you, unless you are unhappy with your current ISP. As far as I can tell you save nothing.

The only thing I am unsure of is whether or not joining on ADSLx then upgrading to fibre starts a new 18-month term, or merely adds six months to the outstanding part of the 12 months. I expect it starts a full 18 months.

There are two things about leaving fibre early, i.e.within the 18 month minimum term.

One is the £40 for the router if you leave within 12 months, as you kow. The other I don't think has been mentioned, which is the cost of the outstanding fibre term. This is instead of the full cost of the outstanding months. It is £4.25pm on Value Fibre and £5.50pm on Extra Fibre.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 21-Nov-12 08:43:24)

Thanks for the link. Interesting thread.

Yes, can see you have a two horse race, but if 250 GB a month is acceptable (as it seems to be) and the only 'downside' is some Peer-to-Peer throttling for a few hours a day (and remember overnight is not included in that 250 GB, so traffic _could_ run at full pelt - I only run such traffic and iPlayer downloads overnight, by the way) then the only significant difference is cost and the 50 quid saving using BT is exceeded by the monthly cost once you have passed the 9th month.

As for keeping the phone line with BT, then I'd suggest next time annual renewal comes around, look at the cost of using Primus. It might be similar if you use Caller Display and other services, but after 12 months it you have no ongoing 12 month contracts and it is probably 2 quid a month cheaper than BT on Line Saver (and I use 1899.com - an indirect service - for the few calls I make on that instead of my mobile).

Also, remember that you can get a discount if you recommend PlusNet to friends, so the cost could be halved or get to a stage where they pay you! Though no links to be shown on TBB.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

the cost of the outstanding fibre term. This is instead of the full cost of the outstanding months. It is £4.25pm on Value Fibre and £5.50pm on Extra Fibre.

That's useful to know and very reasonable, IMO. I knew OFCOM had requested Telco firms charge what it was really costing them in the case of voice lines, didn't know if they had put something formal in writing to ISPs about ADSL/Fibre, but either way, it's good to see an ISP has set the fee at a reasonable level. I'll have to see if it is on some FAQ page (so that if someone considering another ISP wants to check, they can, and then ask <whichever> ISP what they charge... I have no doubt some will have a higher monthly fee for cancellations, and might be persuaded to lower them.)

Just wish others would have adopted the fairness principle when it came to Market 1,2,3 pricing but PN seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Some might have considered the faff of having to explain more trouble and cost (in CS time) than setting a level which covered everyone (either higher than essential, to boost the bottom line, or averaged so those on Market 1 got a bit of assistance from the rest).

Of course the cheapest deals from ISPs like Sky/TalkTalk (with limited interest in Market 1) may not have been available to all (though I've not checked, it's just gut feeling!)

In reply to a post by ultra:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

the cost of the outstanding fibre term. This is instead of the full cost of the outstanding months. It is £4.25pm on Value Fibre and £5.50pm on Extra Fibre.

That's useful to know and very reasonable, IMO ... I'll have to see if it is on some FAQ page

http://www.plus.net/info2/legal/price_guide.html#fibre - Table 9.

http://www.plus.net/info2/legal/price_guide.html#fibre - Table 9.

Thanks. Wasn't going to go searching today anyway, but good to have a link (will end up in my GMail too).

A number of people have issues with it's wireless performance - especially those on fibre.

I can see "both sides of the fence".

On one hand Plusnet are trying to eliminate router config etc. problems.

On the other customers want something that works for *them*.

The only solution is for Plusnet to improve it's technical base and I guess as that would cost we aren't going to see that happen.

Maybe Plusnet could charge extra for those that raise problems with "other" routers; but how would that be worked out? The trouble with BB is that it involves too many variables. At the moment one company tends to blame another. The ISP blames the wholesale or modem supplier and the customer is left with the problem.

I think you now have your answer but it's a crud router and for the price.

See amazon for some reviews. http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B005ELFTH4/r...

As we were discussing before, it's not ecnomical to do it that way anyway. I will be stung with even more charges and you save nothing like you say.

I should get connection at least half price with them cashback offers if I go for it.

Have you never noticed that the forum software inserts a full-width line between your post and your sig?

LoL no, not until now. I was too busy replying.

I doubt very much I will go over 250GB. I only went over 100Gb once with my current isp.

I did look at Primus some time ago but a lot of bad reviews. http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews145423.html

Like I was saying before, it's swing and roundabouts and by the time you have messed about switching, you haven't really saved anything. BT maybe rubbish but I know what to expect and don't use the phone enough to warrant moving and disadvantaging myself.

I don't think I can get that with PN if I use something like quidco. BTW you can get 70 quid off if you get fibre + phone with PN from quidco.

Edited by deleted (Wed 21-Nov-12 23:08:05)

Well I have now requested my MAC code and may use it in the next 30 days.

If I use it before christmas, I won't be telling anyone who I have switched to. It will be a secret until I am connected or I have any problems. I hope not but I will be the first to post about it on here.

I will also do some P2P tests so thats another reason for the secrecy. I wouldn't want either BT or PN to give me some artificial boost to make it look good would I now.

Another question.
If PN can make a crummy ADSL2+ router work on fibre, can I not make my speed touch 546 do the same thing? or with some modification or custom firmware?

Edited by deleted (Wed 21-Nov-12 23:22:18)

£25 from PN for broadband only.

And ditch that lopsided spoiler line .

Correct 25 quid is all I can get but that is still half price.

I need to keep you all in suspense.

In a modem/router we have a modem, a router, and ethernet switch, and possibly a wireless access point.

Modem >> router WAN connector >> routing firmware >> switch (connector) >> 'n' LAN ports. (Bi-directional).

A cable router has ethernet input from an external modem.

The Plusnet ADSL router cannot handle VDSL2 through its phone line connector. So a LAN port is (in effect) re-wired to the place of the WAN connector and ceases to be a logical part of the switch. To what extent firmware and hard wiring changes are mixed to achieve this, I have no idea. But that's why you can't do it with your 546. Without many thousands of pounds to spare, that is, or a sudden transfusion of electronics expertise .

In reply to a post by superspeed:

it's a crud router

Plusnet obviously got a good bulk deal!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

a full-width line between your post and your sig?

I'm used to having to insert my own.

Changed now; thanks.

In reply to a post by hk11:

In reply to a post by superspeed:

it's a crud router

Plusnet obviously got a good bulk deal!

On a bran(ded) router.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

On a bran(ded) router.

braIn deAd?

In reply to a post by superspeed:

If I use it before christmas, I won't be telling anyone who I have switched to. It will be a secret until I am connected

That's presumably because both BT and Plusnet will have nothing better than to try to guess which of their new subscribers you are, and apply a special profile to you while you test (remember not to make it easy for them by using the same username over on their systems).

Then they'll monitor your testing, and be able to distinguish that testing from "normal" P2P behaviour. From that, they'll be able to tell when you've stopped eyeballing the results.

At that point they'll put you back on the normal (and presumably slower) service - in the absolute knowledge that you won't look at the new results and start bawling.

Maybe its just me, but I detect a hint of paranoia here...

LOL I think you may have taken what I have said too seriously.

remember not to make it easy for them by using the same username over on their systems

I would not be silly enough to make that mistake now would I.

Then they'll monitor your testing, and be able to distinguish that testing from "normal" P2P behaviour

Many people use p2p so they may find that hard when thousands of others, are doing P2P at the same time.

It's just you, no paranoia here.