Will I get ADSL 2+ or ADSL Max?

I live in a ADSL 2+ area, but I read if you have a slow line speed, PlusNet will give you ADSL Max instead to give you greater line stability?

I am quoted an "ESTIMATED 6Mb SPEEDS"

I really want to be on ADSL 2+, rather than ADSL Max, as I know I will actually get faster than 6Mb - actually around 8Mb if given ADSL 2+.

Thanks for any replies.

How do you know you will get faster than 6mbs ? until your line is tried then the speeds are still an estimate.

In some cases with bad lines and/or noisy internal wiring, adsl2 can synch at lower speeds than adslmax..

Do you already have ADSL on the line? If so please post router stats.

What they actually do for very long lines is put people on ADSL1 on 21CN. Once on 21CN changing between ADSL1 and ADSL2/ADSL2+ doesn't require rewiring and is a simple order Plusnet will quite happily give a different mode a go if it looks like it would be better. I'd think they'd only order ADSL1 at the outset if the speed prediction was really low, say around 1MB.

Edit: Clarification

Edited by jelv (Wed 30-Jan-13 13:54:02)

In reply to a post by aerostar2:

In some cases with bad lines and/or noisy internal wiring, adsl2 can synch at lower speeds than adslmax..

Do you really mean ADSL2, or ADSL2+? There is a big difference, and you are offering advice .

In reply to a post by jelv:

changing between ADSL1 and ADSL2/ADSL2+ doesn't require rewiring

There is re-wiring at the exchange as its a different dslam.

No it doesn't if you are on ADSL1 on 21CN!

Jelv is correct on the basis that once a customer is on the 21CN WBC hardware the provider can move the customer around between the different service profiles available.

Sorry, the post was a bit ambiguous and I mis-understood what Jelv was saying.

I've made a slight change to my post - clear enough now?

does the PN supplied router not give the end user the option of ADSL standard to use ?

Not sure, but even with routers than can the user can only downgrade, so if Plusnet have set it to ADSL1 you can't force ADSL2.

Yes, I currently get 8Mb on o2, but am preparing to leave if they get sold.

Thanks for the replies.

I have answered my own question. I would get ADSL 2+

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/ad...

4. What happens if my line can't support ADSL2+?

If your line can't support speeds above 4Mb, we'll provide you with ADSL Broadband (offering download speeds 'up to' 6Mb). Although this has a lower maximum speed, it will make sure you get a stable service and a better all-round experience.

I am given an estimated speed of 6Mb so I should be on ADSL 2+

In reply to a post by OnFire:

Thanks for the replies.

I have answered my own question. I would get ADSL 2+

http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/ad...

4. What happens if my line can't support ADSL2+?

If your line can't support speeds above 4Mb, we'll provide you with ADSL Broadband (offering download speeds 'up to' 6Mb). Although this has a lower maximum speed, it will make sure you get a stable service and a better all-round experience.

I am given an estimated speed of 6Mb so I should be on ADSL 2+

As already asked here what are your router line stats like just now as they can help to predict if you might get a faster connection?

Read this to get stats.

Uptime: 53 days, 0:38:28

DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A

Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,179 / 10,184

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,196 / 7,878

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.5 / 40.0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.5 / 7.0

Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): 0

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 29 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 8,619 / 4,200,122

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 8,619 / 6,471

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 22,959 / 4,857

In reply to a post by OnFire:

DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A

G.992.3 is ADSL2, so you must already be on 21CN.

Something isn't right there.

You are on ADSL2 when you would expect to be on ADSL2+. Or has it deliberately been downgraded by you or O2?

The connection speed/sync/bandwidth is also strange, as even if you are on a legacy 8Mbps package you should be connecting faster than 7878kbps. The norm on "O2 Standard" on a line your length is 8191kbps.

I suggest you do a reconnection during daylight hours and take the stats again immediately afterwards.

On uncapped ADSL2+ the sort of connection speed you are looking at is just below the "Maximum Bandwidth" figure given there.

Although I've no reason to doubt it, you said at the start that you are in an ADSL2+ area. Please could tell us the exchange so we can check? The fact you are, or should be, on ADSL2+ with O2 isn't relevant as they use their own kit in the exchange.

He's on O2 LLU David.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Something isn't right there.

You are on ADSL2 when you would expect to be on ADSL2+. Or has it deliberately been downgraded by you or O2?

The connection speed/sync/bandwidth is also strange, as even if you are on a legacy 8Mbps package you should be connecting faster than 7878kbps. The norm on "O2 Standard" on a line your length is 8191kbps.

I suggest you do a reconnection during daylight hours and take the stats again immediately afterwards.

On uncapped ADSL2+ the sort of connection speed you are looking at is just below the "Maximum Bandwidth" figure given there.

Although I've no reason to doubt it, you said at the start that you are in an ADSL2+ area. Please could tell us the exchange so we can check? The fact you are, or should be, on ADSL2+ with O2 isn't relevant as they use their own kit in the exchange.

I have not deliberately downgraded my connection. Possibly o2 did this, but they did not tell me!

I am on Yateley exchange:

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/THY

I just re-read the whole thread and realised that the current result is on O2 - I though it was a pre-ADSL2+ PlusNet result.

That's fine OnFire .

A couple of points though. Try that daytime I suggested and give us stats taken immediately after. It could be something odd happened 53 days ago .

Second, does this checker mention FTTC, and if so what does it say? Your exchange has got FTTC in some places.

Don't worry if this checker has that 6Mbps estimate for ADSL2+. That's probably what the Plusnet system is picking up, and with you being on O2 LLU possibly hasn't been updated since before you went to them.

Easy done .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That's fine OnFire .

A couple of points though. Try that daytime I suggested and give us stats taken immediately after. It could be something odd happened 53 days ago .

Second, does this checker mention FTTC, and if so what does it say? Your exchange has got FTTC in some places.

Don't worry if this checker has that 6Mbps estimate for ADSL2+. That's probably what the Plusnet system is picking up, and with you being on O2 LLU possibly hasn't been updated since before you went to them.

Thanks. Will reboot in daytime and post results straight after.

Yes, I can get FTTC, but probably will not yet because it is more expensive - double the cost.

Available Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

Availability Date

Featured Products

WBC FTTC Up to 56.3 Up to 20 -- Available
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 6 -- 4 to 8 Available
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 6 Up to 1 4 to 8 Available
ADSL Max Up to 5 -- 3.5 to 7.5 Available
WBC Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Other Offerings
Fibre Multicast -- -- -- Available
For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage. Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 30-Nov-2013. The Stop Sale date for IPstream is from 30-Nov-2012; the Formal Retirement date for IPstream is from 30-Nov-2013.

If the End User wishes to migrate from their current Broadband supplier they will need to contact them in the first instance to obtain a MAC (Migrations Authorisation) Code, and then contact their new Broadband supplier to arrange for the service to be migrated.

Note: If you decide to place an order for a WBC fibre product, an appointment may be required for an engineer to visit the end user's premises to supply the service.
Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.

Thank you for your interest.

I will reboot again in daytime as requested, but I also have recently rebooted, and here are the stats:

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:45:29

DSL Type: G.992.3 annex A

Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,204 / 10,232

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1,200 / 8,125

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.0 / 19.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 24.5 / 39.5

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.5 / 6.0

Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): 0

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 2,397

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 22,964 / 0

Is ADSL2+, (or ALL), ticked in your router GUI? You may need to go in as SuperUser, but possibly can see it in the Administrator/administrator login.

Also have a read of:-

Ring/Bell wire;
Miscellaneous nasties.

Just in case anything there applies.

Does your phone line ever crackle?

Phone line never crackles, and there are no internal extensions.

Logged in as a SuperUser and got this:

O2_ADSL2plus

Connection Information

Uptime: 0 days, 1:03:50

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 1.97 / 4.16

Connection Settings

PVC Info (VPI.VCI): 0.101

Type: ETHoA

Thanks for the help. Any clues above? I think I will probably have to phone o2 and ask them what is going on.

Have just seen this:

http://service.o2.co.uk/IQ/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?N...

The difference between O2 ADSL and O2 ADSL2+

ADSL stands for Asymmetric Digital Subscriber Line. This technology lets you transmit huge amounts of digital information through existing phone lines. It's essentially the technology that makes broadband possible.

O2 ADSL uses BT phone lines. The reason broadband lets you receive phone calls while online is because phone calls use low frequency signals while higher frequencies are used for Internet data. Both frequencies can happily run together on the same phone line when you use the ADSL filters that we supply to separate your phone line into the voice and data channels, that�s why it is important to use a filter on every phone.

O2 ADSL 2+ uses even higher frequencies for data communications. This means you can send even more data along the phone line at faster speeds. This is the technology used for O2 Home Broadband speeds on the packages that cover speeds up to 20 meg.

Unfortunately, the higher frequencies only work over short distances due to the laws of physics. This means you have to live within 2km of your local telephone exchange to enjoy the extra speed.

I am on o2 Standard 8Mb legacy package, so guess that explains things.

Not really! I'd still expect you to be on ADSL2+ (G.992.5) but capped by O2 to 8 Meg.

That quote does not tell you much and is rather confused. The bit about phone calls applies to ADSL2+ equally with ADSL. Also up to at least 3 km sees benefits from ADSL2+.

I see no sense in them setting it to ADSL1 TBH. ADSL2 works better on very long lines to the tune of a few hundred k and the user can as you say turn it down to an earlier standard if need be.

Nope .

I realised you were on Standard way back. That link you give is a bit confusing in its own right unless you know what it is trying to say. It is very badly worded, as it uses the terms O2 ADSL and O2 ADSL2+ and doesn't explain the difference at all. It doesn't even try.

If you read it carefully, it describes ADSL in generic terms, then how ADSL2+ is able to go faster. Sticking "O2" in front of both is the confuser, as those appear in the O2 Box GUI, where O2 ADSL means non-LLU and O2 ADSL2+ means LLU.

Rest assured, all O2 LLU, even the 8Mbps Standard, is ADSL2+, but Standard is capped at 8192 connection speed when the two higher packages weren't. Standard usually gives a maximum 8190 or 8191 actual sync speed on medium length lines like yours. Which is why I expect you to be hitting that on your line.

When I was on it, my (untweaked) maximum started off at about 7140Mbps but deteriorating lines brought me down to around 6Mbps by the time I left.

O2 Access, which is what they supply when they haven't LLU'ed the exchange is (what was) ADSL Max, capped by BT Wholesale at 8128kbps.

Your line is capable of getting on for 10Mbps connection speed, as shown in your stats. What I'm trying to find out is why you aren't getting ADSL2+ and 8191kbps, because if you do have something less than optimal at your end then you will be forever held back. Even more so possibly on FTTC if you ever go there.

Have a read of the two links I gave you .

Thanks for all the help other forum users.

I phoned o2 and they say I am on ADSL2+, as their network is only ADSL2+. The router must be displaying wrong information/have a software bug that is causing it to wrongly display ADSL2.

Would be interested to hear from other o2 customers to see if they are also experiencing this wrong information on their router stats?

Edited by deleted (Thu 31-Jan-13 02:16:13)

Thanks. Read those two links, but am convinced they do not apply. I have a modern Openreach faceplate. Also o2 told me they only expected me to achieve 6Mb so were pleased with my 8Mb. Possibly the router is giving out inaccurate information when it claims to be on ADSL2.

In reply to a post by OnFire:

Thanks for all the help other forum users.

I phoned o2 and they say I am on ADSL2+, as their network is only ADSL2+. The router must be displaying wrong information/have a software bug that is causing it to wrongly display ADSL2.

Would be interested to hear from other o2 customers to see if they are also experiencing this wrong information on their router stats?

While their network might be ADSL2+, an ADSL2+ network can fall back to ADSL2 if there is a fault, long line, or it has been manually set in the router. From your line stats - on ADSL2+ you should be seeing ~ 10 meg

Edited by deleted (Thu 31-Jan-13 08:13:20)

You can lead a horse to water ....

Something somewhere is wrong, and the router is not giving out inaccurate information. Whoever in O2 told you that, is.

Have you ever done a factory reset on it?