Speed

My new PlusNet broadband line has been active now for 8 days and having done regular TBB speed tests I am not getting any better than 4.3Kbps where I was used to nearly 8.0Kbps with O2 for over 5 years. I appreciate there is a 10 day settling period and does this mean it will shoot up on the last day, I was told when I joined that my line supports between 7-11 meg download speed.

By 4.3Kbps I presume you mean 4.3 Mega bits second i.e. its a typo as 4.3Kbps is ten times slower than dial-up modems manage.

The 10 day settling period should usually see your connection starting at the fastest speed and generally only get slower with a BT Wholesale based service.

What are the attenuation, connection and noise margin stats from the router, feeding them into http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc will give an idea if you are in the right ball park speed wise or not.

O2/Be had a tendency to run slightly faster than other providers, but generally 10 to 20%, not double the speed.

Thanks I have managed to extract this...

Uptime: 6 days, 1:13:48
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 5.260
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 873,63 / 1,99
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,0 / 19,4
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 22,5 / 42,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20,0 / 3,8
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 3.394 / 1
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 53 / 6.572
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 19 / 17.213

Hope this is of some use
Alec

It means you should expect a speed in the 6500Kbps to 10000Kbps range
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG...

The modem has not dropped the connection for almost 7 days and the error level is low for such a long period.

The downstream noise margin is fairly low, but without restarting the router hard to know if this is a low target level and power backoff or a sign of a problem. I'd probably do one restart of the router now, just to see if it will connect faster, a single reboot in 6 days is not going to trigger DLM to slow you down.

If you use your upload (e.g. cloud backups) you might want to pester PlusNet via a ticket to uncap the upload speeds, as you can probably have double the speed for upload.

Thanks for advice MrSaffron here are the stats after a restart...

Uptime: 0 days, 0:01:22
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 5.207
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 51,44 / 85,86
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,0 / 19,5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 22,6 / 42,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20,8 / 6,2
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0

Alec

Not great then. 6dB target margin is normal and would expect higher sync. Dont fiddle for a day or so but if you have another router see what its sync speed is.

Is everything otherwise identical compared to when you had o2

May be faster on adsl2 or even g.dmt.

Maybe but suspect not in this case

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc

I bookmark it, very nice handly useful site. Thanks.

I have a Netgear DGND3300 ver 2 but thought Plusnet might object to me using a 3rd party modem during the 10 day period and use that as an excuse to not being able to adjust the speed. My latest speed check this morning was 3.85meg download.

Edited by deleted (Fri 04-Oct-13 12:14:42)

Hi there FraserSoft,

Feel free to send me a private message with your username or support ticket ID and I'll run some checks for you.

I have been advised a by Plusnet techy that what I am getting is all I can expect from my BT line as O2 used LLU and it's performance is better so now looking to cancel contract as this is what was expected on my joining day..

Telephone number:
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Phone exchange:
NORTH SHIELDS
Estimated line speed:
7Mb (This may vary between 5.5Mb and 12Mb) - Checked on 2013-09-16 12:31:41
Current line speed:
4.4 Mb

In reply to a post by FraserSoft:

I have been advised a by Plusnet techy that what I am getting is all I can expect from my BT line as O2 used LLU

Rubbish! They are both ADSL2+ and BTw can operate at lower NMs than O2 LLU if suitable. I'm getting faster speeds from Orange (BTw) WBC than I did from Orange when it was LLU.

The BT profile system will slow it down a little bit compared to o2 LLU. That said BT/ PlusNet CAN give a lower SNR so it can end up similar (although at your line length it's unlikely to do this).

It's likely that another ISP may give you better speeds. Perhaps give Sky LLU a thought as you'd have been heading there anyway with the takeover.

BT will be similar speeds to PlusNet. As for the current stats it's not going to improve really on this ISP.

TalkTalk is LLU also and may yield better speeds too. Take all estimated speeds with a pinch of salt as they're always wildly inaccurate.

Thanks for both replies and I was with Sky after O2 and they had similar problems and let me out of their contract because they couldn't provide what was offered at the point of sale. I have speed tests on this site going back over 5 years with O2 and apart from the odd glitch my average download speed was 7.5megs and upload 1.1megs. Neither Sky or Plusnet have achieved anywhere near that, it may now be a case of going with Virgin Media as there is a cable past my front door.

Post deleted by Oldjim

I think your lines just deteriorated to be honest.

Virgin is a no brainer here.

Thanks lets hope Plusnet accept that my speed is what it is and let me change without having to pay £99.00 which I can't afford to do.

It depends, it would have to be significantly below their estimated speed at sign up.

This from earlier..

Estimated line speed:
7Mb (This may vary between 5.5Mb and 12Mb) - Checked on 2013-09-16 12:31:41
Current line speed:
4.4 Mb

The best download speed I can get is usually 4megs + or - 0.2meg here is the last 2 days

Date Down TBB Down HTTPx6 Upstream IP Address ISP
Sat 05/10/13 15:15 4.08 Mbps 4.05 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 87.112.24.56 Plusnet
Sat 05/10/13 09:23 4.11 Mbps 4.04 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 87.112.24.56 Plusnet
Fri 04/10/13 23:51 4.11 Mbps 3.98 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 87.112.24.56 Plusnet
Fri 04/10/13 20:13 4.09 Mbps 3.94 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 91.125.29.251 Plusnet
Fri 04/10/13 19:22 4.13 Mbps 4.02 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 84.93.172.155 Plusnet
Fri 04/10/13 19:02 4.13 Mbps 4.09 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 84.93.172.155 Plusnet
Fri 04/10/13 18:53 4.09 Mbps 4.06 Mbps 0.36 Mbps 84.93.172.155 Plusnet
Fri 04/10/13 17:11 3.85 Mbps 3.79 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 87.114.54.107 Plusnet
Fri 04/10/13 15:34 3.85 Mbps 3.79 Mbps 0.38 Mbps 87.114.54.107 Plusnet
Fri 04/10/13 13:08 3.86 Mbps 3.78 Mbps 0.38 Mbps 87.113.158.119 Plusnet
Fri 04/10/13 10:32 3.85 Mbps 3.81 Mbps 0.38 Mbps 87.113.158.119 Plusnet

Edited by deleted (Sat 05-Oct-13 15:17:39)

And its not getting any better....

Date Down TBB Down HTTPx6 Upstream IP Address ISP
Mon 07/10/13 16:53 3.96 Mbps 3.89 Mbps 0.38 Mbps 146.90.91.69 Plusnet
Mon 07/10/13 08:48 3.96 Mbps 3.90 Mbps 0.38 Mbps 87.112.105.49 Plusnet
Sun 06/10/13 23:40 3.96 Mbps 3.90 Mbps 0.38 Mbps 87.112.105.49 Plusnet
Sun 06/10/13 20:27 3.96 Mbps 3.88 Mbps 0.38 Mbps 87.112.105.49 Plusnet
Sun 06/10/13 18:25 3.94 Mbps 3.89 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 146.90.158.153 Plusnet
Sun 06/10/13 14:23 4.11 Mbps 4.06 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 87.112.24.56 Plusnet
Sun 06/10/13 09:22 4.11 Mbps 4.02 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 87.112.24.56 Plusnet
Sun 06/10/13 00:11 4.11 Mbps 4.06 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 87.112.24.56 Plusnet
Sat 05/10/13 15:15 4.08 Mbps 4.05 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 87.112.24.56 Plusnet
Sat 05/10/13 09:23 4.11 Mbps 4.04 Mbps 0.37 Mbps 87.112.24.56 Plusnet

In reply to a post by FraserSoft:

I have been advised a by Plusnet techy that what I am getting is all I can expect from my BT line as O2 used LLU and it's performance is better so now looking to cancel contract as this is what was expected on my joining day

So did you or didn't you give him your details? These guys have a lot more in their armoury than first-line support, if that's what you mean by a PlusNet "techy".

Your (rude) reply to him amounted to "get lost - I want out". He can't even help with that without details of who you are.

I am not sure where rude came from but I am far from rude with anyone. I have gone through the master socket tests etc having given them all my details and have waited as they suggested for the 10 days and tech support told me that the speed I am getting now is what I can expect in the future.
Are you suggesting I ring them back and tell them they are not doing their job properly, as far as I was aware having pressed the buttons for technical support and sat in a queue for over 30 minutes that I was through to the correct department or is there more buttons to press that you know about ?

You won't get a faster download speed than your current sync speed.
Your sync speed is low due to your SNR margin being low.
There is perhaps, some noise affecting your connection.

One thing you can do is change the modulation from ADSL2+ to ADSL2 as I suggested earlier.

Thanks for the help Batboy, I was assuming that Plusnet should be trying those things to hopefully improve my download speed. I suppose my problem is that I had over 5 years of an average speed from O2 of 7.5megs and to drop down to 4 megs is a bit of a letdown. I am not pushing to get out of my contract if Plusnet can supply what they said my line is capable of I would be quite happen to stay but if they can't it's my choice to go somewhere else.

Essentially the question was, did you PM Adam Walker as requested? Your reply to him may not actually have been rude, but it wasn't terribly polite given his offer to help.

I am sorry but I am confused now, who asked the question did I pm Adam Walker ? I sent all the details to Adam Walker on Friday afternoon after his request for me to do that, does he work for Plusnet ? I don't know who he is...
Oh and by the way I haven't as yet had a reply.

Edited by deleted (Mon 07-Oct-13 19:33:09)

In reply to a post by FraserSoft:

does he work for Plusnet ? I don't know who he is...

He has an isp tag and his sig is:

Adam Walker
Plusnet Support Team
Service Status :: RSS :: Email

He's well-known on this forum and I'm surprised if he hasn't replied to your PM.

And it was RobertoS who asked "So did you or didn't you give him your details?"

Edited by kasg (Mon 07-Oct-13 19:46:43)

I'm still wondering about the difference between your connection with O2 and your connection now. Do you know if it was ADSL2 or ADSL2+ on O2?
It would be great if you had your old router stats.

Apologies I use the forum very little and don't know about tags and things like that so thanks for filling me in. The techy I was talking about was someone I was speaking to on the phone and not on the forum so hence my confusion when Roberto S asked..

So did you or didn't you give him your details? These guys have a lot more in their armoury than first-line support, if that's what you mean by a PlusNet "techy".

Sorry no old stats the only difference that has been mentioned by Sky and Plusnet is that O2 had their LLU gear in the exchange where Sky and Plusnet use BT gear. I am pretty sure it was ADSL2+ with O2 and I was using my Netgear DGND3300 V2 modem.Below is a small sample of speeds with O2..

Thu 09/05/13 10:38 7.55 Mbps 7.36 Mbps 1.17 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Wed 08/05/13 22:13 7.51 Mbps 7.50 Mbps 1.16 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Wed 08/05/13 22:12 7.56 Mbps 7.39 Mbps 1.16 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Wed 08/05/13 09:27 7.41 Mbps 7.43 Mbps 1.16 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Tue 07/05/13 16:31 7.50 Mbps 7.41 Mbps 1.17 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Mon 06/05/13 23:35 7.55 Mbps 7.50 Mbps 1.17 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Sun 05/05/13 09:18 7.56 Mbps 7.41 Mbps 1.17 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Sat 04/05/13 09:48 7.53 Mbps 7.44 Mbps 1.17 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Thu 02/05/13 20:16 7.52 Mbps 7.43 Mbps 1.16 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Wed 01/05/13 19:12 7.51 Mbps 7.43 Mbps 1.16 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Wed 01/05/13 00:36 7.52 Mbps 7.43 Mbps 1.10 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Tue 30/04/13 17:05 7.52 Mbps 7.42 Mbps 1.17 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Mon 29/04/13 18:58 7.50 Mbps 7.40 Mbps 1.16 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2
Sun 28/04/13 10:38 7.51 Mbps 7.42 Mbps 1.16 Mbps 78.86.216.229 O2

Edited by deleted (Mon 07-Oct-13 20:05:00)

Sorry - I assumed you knew what an ISP tag was. So my calling you rude was inappropriate.

It is odd Adam hasn't replied. He may not have seen your PM on Friday, as they work Monday-Friday office hours, but I would have thought he would have done today. I'm not an expert on searching the Community forums so can't see if he has been there today.

It might be an idea to start a thread there, just with a couple of speeds from O2 and PlusNet, with those line stats as well. I find it a bit worrying however that you also had a similar issue on Sky. That strongly suggests it isn't an exchange issue, but something between there and you or at your end that happened coincidentally. A new or replacement Sky box perhaps?

Re the technical side of it, PlusNet is ADSL2+ just like O2 LLU, and the difference in connection speed should have been minimal. The phone support person was simply wrong, as is any reply here that supports it. There is the possibility you had asked O2 to reduce your noise margin to 3dB, where their and PlusNet's default is 6dB, but I have a gut feel you didn't. I wouldn't expect such a huge difference in speed from that anyway. I think it much more likely there is a problem somewhere.

Edit - And yes, those O2 figures are ADSL2+.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 07-Oct-13 21:29:17)

Thanks, I did have my SNR at 3db with O2 for all the time I was with them, on the odd occasion if they reset it to 6db I lost about 1.3meg d/load speed but they always put it back to 3db and speed went back up. When I joined Sky my land line would drop the dialing tone after pressing 3 or 4 digits and Sky sent out an engineer from Openreach who carried all the tests he could and found no fault. It was only when another engineer decided to swap things around at the exchange that all was well, but did not make any difference to my download speed.
I am using the Plusnet modem now but did try my Netgear DGND3300 without any noticeable change in stats so I am not sure what else I can do and I am not happy just getting 4meg download speed and I might have another word with Tech support and see if they can drop the snr to 3db's.

Not good . To me it sounds as if something was messed up on the move to Sky.

Apparently it is possible to get the margin lowered to 3dB, but the people you phone won't have the authority. You could re-open this thread perhaps. How much it will improve things I don't know. The forum reps can do much more, as I said before .

You are connected to different equipment at the exchange end from your former LLU service using different jumper wires to before. Sometimes you get a particularly good combination of equipment and line conditions, which performs better than expected, sometimes the opposite happens and you get an underperforming combination.

As you've gone to PlusNet via Sky, and had a fault repaired whilst on Sky that might have led to part of your line being swapped for a different pair of wires, there's really no way to know precisely what the root cause of the slower speed is, especially without detailed diagnostic information from the O2 setup to compare to what you have now (attenuation figures at a minimum, detailed information on bin SNR and bit loading would be of interest). Any PlusNet / BT Wholesale speed estimates might have been based on a line with better parameters than the one you have now - but there's no way to go on a 'shopping expedition' for a better pair or return to your original pair if part of your line was swapped for a different pair.


If your PlusNet connection is sufficiently stable, it may eventually find its way to a 3dB noise margin by itself, which should improve the connection speed. Beyond that, I'm afraid an estimate is an educated guess and no more. A speed lower than the estimate is not grounds for escaping from your contractual obligations, though PlusNet have the discretion to release you should they wish to.


As the Be/O2 residential network is closing, you've just left Sky and seemingly don't want to go back and any BT Wholesale based ISP is likely to perform similarly if not identically to PlusNet (they use the same equipment, and you will remain connected to the same DSLAM port if you migrate from one BT Wholesale based ISP directly to another), that doesn't leave many options.

SamKnows gives the remaining options as AOL, C&W, TalkTalk and Tiscali, but quite apart from this data not necessarily being up to date, it's also misleading. Both AOL UK and Tiscali UK's operations have long since been taken over by TalkTalk, so those three are only actually one option for new customers (and I very much doubt there are still three separate networks after all this time). What's listed as C&W is the old Bulldog network, which still used as a wholesale provider for certain connections (ADSL24 still lists a C&W based product, I'm not sure if any other ISPs still sell a C&W based product).

Rather than looking to escape from your PlusNet contract and move to one of the two remaining ADSL options, which could turn out to be even worse, what does the BT Wholesale checker list against your phone number for FTTC? It seems that at least some parts of your exchange area may have FTTC deployment to come in the next few months, which could offer you significantly faster speeds with, as I understand it, no need to buy yourself out of your PlusNet ADSL contract if you upgrade to PlusNet Fibre.


Meanwhile, it would seem a good idea to follow the suggestions you're being given by RobertoS about bringing your case to PlusNet's attention.

Thanks again for all the help, I have an option to go to Virgin Media as I was with Telewest many years ago and the cable duct is outside my house. It might be reasonable to assume Sky messed things up but the land line fault occurred a couple of weeks into joining Sky and prior to that my download speeds were about 2 megs slower than O2. I was advised again by Plusnet to send a complaint about my speed which I did and at present I am waiting for a reply.

It must be old age or something, I have registered for the forum and followed your link but could not find how to send a new post in that thread. I can quote and reply to the message that's there but how do I post my own message ?

You can either post a reply on an existing thread (which is, in effect, posting your own message), as you have already found, or create a new topic in the forum by clicking on the forum name "Broadband and Routers" in the "breadcrumb trail" near the top left then clicking "New Topic"

Edited by kasg (Tue 08-Oct-13 10:50:27)

In reply to a post by David_W:

Both AOL UK ... operations have long since been taken over by TalkTalk

While AOL BB (not AOL UK which is part of AOL Inc) may now be owned by TT, they do still offer separate LLU BB products over a separate network (according to SamKnows). Admittedly not brilliant.

Indeed they are one of the few (only) retail ISPs to still offer a Partial LLU product, but only "Up to 8 Meg" [ugh].

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 08-Oct-13 13:03:17)

Not sure if someone has been tweaking but my speed has improved over the last 24 hours..Stats below
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 23:33:08
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 6.103
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 57,52 / 274,79
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11,8 / 19,5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 22,6 / 42,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20,6 / 2,6
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 9 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 9.566 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 13 / 12.358
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 7 / 12.273

SNR shown as 2.6db !

Someone is the DLM! As has been suggested it has taken it upon itself to reduce Target NM to 3dB, but you are still not getting what your line should be capable of, about 9 Meg @ 3dB NM.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by David_W:

Both AOL UK ... operations have long since been taken over by TalkTalk

While AOL BB (not AOL UK which is part of AOL Inc) may now be owned by TT, they do still offer separate LLU BB products over a separate network (according to SamKnows). Admittedly not brilliant.

Indeed they are one of the few (only) retail ISPs to still offer a Partial LLU product, but only "Up to 8 Meg" [ugh].

Interesting - thanks for that. You'd think after some five years that TalkTalk would have migrated customers and shut down the legacy AOL network entirely. It must be getting increasingly difficult to support an old G.DMT only network. The exchange equipment is obsolescent (5 years is a long time in data communications) and the underlying network might be based on ATM (which is becoming increasingly rare, as it contrasts with the modern preference for Ethernet based technologies such as MPLS).

It seems BT Wholesale are adopting the approach of giving notice on their 20CN system (the same generation of technology as the 'up to 8 Meg' AOL network) in certain exchanges with 21CN ADSL2+. This allows the 20CN network links to be shut down and the exchange equipment recovered for spares to keep the remaining parts of the 20CN network going.


It would be helpful if SamKnows were updated to reflect the reality for those ordering today. Useful information isn't there (like which of TalkTalk, Sky and Zen has FTTx presence at the handover node for that exchange), some of the information is out of date (the Zen information is for their legacy LLU deployment at a handful of exchanges, not the newer 200 exchange MPLS based network), and some relates to networks that, at most, exist only to serve legacy and/or wholesale customers.

In reply to a post by David_W:

It must be getting increasingly difficult to support an old G.DMT only network.

Afraid you picked up the wrong end of the stick there & thereafter.

AOL LLU network is ADSL2+; it is just that their Partial LLU "Up to 8 Meg" product is capped to that speed, like many other ADSL2+ LLU ISPs, e.g. Orange, O2, Be, used to offer as a cheap entry-level product.

I certainly did - but the important part of that post was the last paragraph, which still holds. SamKnows is not a particularly useful guide to your options today.

Given the fact that Virgin cable runs past my front door and also given the opportunity that's probably the way I would go and forget about all the ins and outs of DLM etc etc...

Hi there,

I'm sorry I've not been able to respond to you just yet FraserSoft. I've checked your account and I'm unable to see anything obvious that may be causing you to receive the speeds that you are at the moment.

I've noticed from the ticket you raised with some further speed test results that this has got worse unfortunately, however I notice that we haven't looked at this from a faults angle at all yet so I'm going to advise raising this through our faults troubleshooter at http://faults.plus.net


Adam

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

]While AOL BB (not AOL UK which is part of AOL Inc) may now be owned by TT, they do still offer separate LLU BB products over a separate network (according to SamKnows). Admittedly not brilliant.

From the AOL website: "AOL Broadband uses the UK's biggest next generation network (covering 85% of the UK) to deliver you fast, stable broadband."

Since I don't think AOL LLU reaches anywhere near 85%, I suspect they are talking about the Talktalk network.

Thanks I have probably done all the trouble shooting tests when I was on the phone last Friday and was advised to make a complaint which I did and presently waiting for a reply.

Likely they use TT backhaul.

As my speed/snr seems to have settled at around 5megs download would there be any advantage to me using my Netgear DGND3300v2 modem in place of the Technicolour one ?

Suck it & see! Prob only for the wireless.

C & W was bought by Vodafone in July 2012 and fully absorbed 1 April 2013.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Likely they use TT backhaul.

But there aren't enough AOL DSLAM/MSAN devices in exchanges to boast 85% coverage. At the very least AOL customers must be connected to Talktalk kit in exchanges where AOL have no presence.

True, but you can take these marketing statements with a pinch of salt.

'We use TT's backhaul'
'TT's network covers 85% of the UK'
therefore
'We cover 85% of the UK'

would be logic to marketeers.

Well it looks like my complaint with Plusnet is closed as there definition of significantly lower is different than mine..email from Plusnet yesterday states:

Estimated line speed: 7.5Mbps
Current line speed: 5.3Mbps
You can keep a track of your line speed through our website:

Today's figures
Wed 09/10/13 16:15 4.99 Mbps 4.86 Mbps 0.38 Mbps 91.125.244.249 Plusnet
Wed 09/10/13 12:35 4.99 Mbps 4.92 Mbps 0.38 Mbps 91.125.244.249 Plusnet
Wed 09/10/13 08:39 5.00 Mbps 4.91 Mbps 0.38 Mbps 91.125.244.249 Plusnet

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

At the very least AOL customers must be connected to Talktalk kit in exchanges where AOL have no presence.

Yes, but in such exchanges where AOL is not LLU'ed (e.g. Wraysbury where I did my test) AOL will only offer you their Full LLU package of Broadband + Calls + Line Rental. Whereas in exchanges where AOL is LLU'ed (such as my Reading one) they will offer you their 'Up to 8 Meg' Partial LLU packages (for what is worth but will suit some).

So, in essence AOL may cover 85% of the UK with their, shared with TT, Full LLU product, but only about half that with their unique differentiated Partial LLU products.

I have now been advised that they are sending an engineer to my house to investigate although admitting that the fault may well be at the exchange as I pointed out I have already had an engineer here a few months ago when Sky did the same tests. Here is this mornings Stats:
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 16:13:57
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 6.127
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 199,70 / 1,94
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11,8 / 19,5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 22,6 / 42,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20,7 / 1,1
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 13 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 61.952 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 6 / 109.298
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 67.315

Alec

Downstream SNRM 1.1dB and error seconds 61952 - an SFI engineer should be able to establish that there is noise affecting your line somewhere.

Upstream is also capped at 448Kbps and fastpath?

Good luck.

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 11-Oct-13 11:01:30)

In reply to a post by FraserSoft:

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 61.952 / 0

That's over 1 ES every sec. and they're getting worse.

Looks like fastpath with a 3dB SNRM at sync time possibly hit by noise which has reduced the margin to 1dB - not very stable!

BT engineer has been and gone and done all the tests which checked out okay and he even replaced the front and back box for the very latest so here are my Stats for this afternoon not much change surprise surprise :TBB speed test 4.97Mbps
Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:43:11
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 6.751
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 347,68 / 1,99
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,0 / 20,3
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 22,5 / 42,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 22,2 / 6,1
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 26 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 3.099 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 14 / 36
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 8 / 102

Alec

Is that wired or wireless, and what is your PlusNet Member Centre Current line speed? IIRC from those stats it should be 5,700kbps.

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 3099 / 0 !!!

I think its 3.099 ie 3 seconds, otherwise there's more error seconds than connection uptime.

Everything is wired in my house apart from the iPad and my current line only shows info from September...

Estimated line speed:
7Mb (This may vary between 5.5Mb and 12Mb) - Checked on 2013-09-16 12:31:41
Current line speed:
5.3 Mb
Is there somewhere that shows today's line speed ?

It's the estimated speed that dates from September, not the current. 5.3Mbps is what it is set to now, but it may have a bit of catching up to do, see if it has changed tomorrow.

Edited by kasg (Sat 12-Oct-13 17:01:54)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

I think its 3.099 ie 3 seconds

No, it's 3K+. The router is using continental 1000s separators (&v.v.). It is more ES than uptime!

In this case...
The routers been connected for 2591 seconds
Yet errored seconds is higher than this...
It's saying it's had more errored seconds since being connected than the total number of seconds since it's even connected? That's like me being connected 6 seconds but having a 10 errored seconds in 6 seconds.

How is that even possible? I'm missing something?

The ES are only zeroised on a hard reboot. Whereas the Uptime is since the last recon.

Notice there have been 3 Loss of Signal since the last reboot. The Uptime is being measured only from the last of these. Q.E.D.

How I wish router manufacturers would synchronise ES and Uptime; it would make assessing them more arithmetically rigorous.

Error seconds were 61952 / 0 yesterday so there must have been a reboot at some point after that?

Would the engineer have left the router powered on when he did the work and if so there would have been a resync when the router was connected back into the NTE5?

The router was on all the time and at the very end he did a reset whatever that did so probably a few re-syncs ?
Decided to put my Netgear DGND3300 v2 back on line to see how that behaves.

Edited by deleted (Sat 12-Oct-13 18:33:22)

Hopefully your downstream sync will be 7200Kbps or more with a 6dB SNRM even if interleaved. Upstream sync you can get uncapped by Plusnet and also check out and/or possibly change their version of your IP Profile.

Current line speed is supposed to be updated at least a couple of times a day. It should be the IP Profile rounded down to the 100kbps.

The IP Profile on a WBMC connection is approximately 88.2% of the connection speed. Hence my saying the current line speed should be 5700kbps with your sync.

For good diagnostic speed testing, that is recorded bt BT Wholesale and visible to PlusNet, you should run the BT Wholesale Performance Test, (ignoring most of the red instructions such as rebooting the modem and turning off your anti-virus system), note the latency from the intitial results page, then click the Further Diagnostics button further down the page.

Then its a good idea to copy and paste the contents of the down and up results text boxes that come up on that one. As you will see, they contain information such as the IP Profile.

Apologies but I really don't understand all this ADSL speak all I know is that prior to actually agreeing to join Plusnet I was advised that I should with my line get about 7.5meg download speed I have been getting about 5 meg. If I had been told I would only get 5 meg I would not have joined and probably would have gone to Virgin Media which passes my front door so it's down to Plusnet whether they are prepared to let me out of my contract as it states in section 13 of the T&C's
" If, despite any improvements we try to make, the line speed you get is significantly lower than the estimated range we quoted you when you placed your order for the service (go to Speed Check Estimates for more details) you will be entitled to cancel your broadband contract without paying a charge for ending it early subject to you following our instructions to resolve the problem"
Alec

In reply to a post by FraserSoft:

I was advised that I should with my line get about 7.5meg download speed I have been getting about 5 meg.

The estimate given by any ISP when you sign up (& by the BTw Checker) is of the connection, or sync, speed not of the throughput which they have no control over. You are getting almost your sign-up estimate.

You notice in the quoted passage it says 'line speed'.

Isn't 'Current line speed' a misnomer? It's not the same measurement as 'Estimated line speed'.

It probably depends on their interpretation of "significantly lower." As has been pointed out, you are getting very close to your estimated speed and you knew you had the VM cable option when you signed up, which is bound to give you higher speeds.

It is the copy IP Profile. I wouldn't call it "Current line speed", but can understand the thinking behind doing so, that being the highest possible throughput.

The estimate, as has been said, is straight off one of the BT Wholesale databases and relates to the sync/connection speed. As that is the figure quoted by all other ISPs at sign-up time there is nothing wrong in PlusNet quoting it.

The estimate is wrong for the reason most of us know - the BT Wholesale databases take a long time to react to changes in line conditions. We know the line was swapped during the trouble with Sky, and the new one just isn't as good as the previous one. The same happened to me a few years back when I had a line fault. I lost 700kbps sync on ADSL2+ when the e-side was changed.

Anyway, time to back away from this thread for me . The OP has made it clear several times he simply wants out. Nothing we suggest here is going to change that.

Thanks RobertoS for all your help and comments I would be quite happy to stay if I could have got a comparative speed that I had with O2 for over 5 years but that doesn't seem achievable with my present provider. I wasn't looking to spend more money with Virgin Media and I will probably just have to put up with what I have until Fibre comes my way sometime in the next XXX years who knows BT doesn't.
Thanks All
Alec

Is there any improvement with the Netgear router? If you are using it, a comparison with the router stats you previously posted might be useful...

I hope all goes well for you.

Note what I just said about what the current line speed is. Your sync x 0.882 gives the IP Profile, and the BT Performance Test confirms that. If the current line speed is still well below that, as yours was last time we checked, then you need to kick PlusNet to correct it. It is supposed to update automatically a couple of times a day, as described earlier, but the update often fails.

PlusNet limit your download speed to the "current line speed", and that should be the round hundred below the IP Profile. You were losing 400kbps when you posted the figure .

Netgear Stats:
DownStream Connection Speed 6555 kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 448 kbps

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 6555 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 42.5 db 21.9 db
Noise Margin 5.4 db 20.8 db
TBB Speed test

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Oct-13 12:09:09)

Latency according to the TTB speed test is 47ms which is possibly a little slow if you are on fastpath. Can you ping bbc.co.uk from Windows Command Prompt?

Should look something like this (BTW. I have an interleaved connection) :

C:\Documents and Settings\user>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.251.195] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=120
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=120
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=29ms TTL=120
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=120

Ping statistics for 212.58.251.195:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 29ms, Maximum = 30ms, Average = 29ms

Here you go:
C:\Users\Alec>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.251.195] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=117
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=117
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=117
Reply from 212.58.251.195: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=117

Ping statistics for 212.58.251.195:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 26ms, Maximum = 28ms, Average = 27ms

Does your Netgear have a TELNET interface to get the error stats? Perhaps see bottom of Tweaking through the CLI

I am not sure it's a Netgear DGND3300v2

It's not rocket science but it doesn't help and confuses by comparing unlike with unlike.

Well, no harm in sucking it & seeing!

No packet loss, that's good

Well all sorted now Plusnet have admitted they can't provide the speed that was estimated so off to Virgin Media next week with 60meg download free for 6 months etc etc.
One surprise came out of all this was the fact that with Plusnet you have two contracts, one for Phone and one for Broadband. They initially just cancelled the broad band one but after a few discussions decided to cancel both, so not sure where the two contracts came from as I joined Plusnet Home Phone and Broadband not two separate deals.
Many Thanks for all the help and comments I have certainly learned a few things recently
Alec

I hope all goes well.

Thanks time will tell, most things work these days it's when it doesn't that good customer service is needed.
Alec