A bad move? Transferring to Plusnet unlimited fibre.....

Hi all

I'm currently with BT (Infinity 2) and have been generally happy with the service I've received. However, having been advised about the imminent price rises (which increased my annual charges by about £80 pa - which if you believe the papers is allegedly to pay for football rights and I'm not that into footie) I decided it was time to consider other options and looked around to change, Sky and Plusnet being my main two likely choices.

I was gobsmacked to find that I can get an identical product in terms of BB and phone line (with add ons etc) with Plusnet for some £180 a year (including a £60 special sweetener) less than I would be paying after the BT increase.

So I called BT to discuss it and they said there's no way they can match it and, as Plusnet gets good reviews on Thinkbroadband (certainly on the ratings scores), on Monday I signed up for transfer to Plusnet.

However since then, I've looked at a number of other websites (trustpilot for example) where Plusnet get REALLY BAD feedback and I'm starting to think I might have made a terrible mistake.....

So...... can anyone explain the apparent discrepancy between the PN reviews on TBB vs a number of other sites?

Also, should I be concerned about my decision? Are things at Plusnet as bad as the other review sites suggest? Have I make a decision I'm going to regret?

I assume now that I've started the transfer process it will be difficult to stop if I were to change my mind? (My advised activation date is 17/8/15, I signed up on Mon 3/8)

Thanks all

Edited by deleted (Wed 05-Aug-15 11:57:48)

One possible explanation for the difference is that TBB gets peoples views whenever they do a speedtest and so you get a spread of people. Most review sites may only see people who are there because they are complaining about their ISP.

For the vast majority of people PlusNet is fine - my uncle for example would see no reason to mark them down.

For some people there are problems with congestion, support queues, etc. Many people wouldn't know they had congestion problems. Many people never ring support. Many people don't know how good the online support has been in the past (and may not be so good now).

I was considering PlusNet earlier in the year and chose not to as they were entering a phase where there were more dissatisfied people. PlusNet support is not as good as it used to be (if you need it). Probably 90% of customers would have no reason (or enough knowledge) to complain. The 10% that do probably are vocal on review sites and indeed there are quite a few in these forums that have had issue.

A number of people who have been with PlusNet a while that post here are now seriously looking at alternatives. Personally, it isn't the ISP I would be moving to with where they are at present but whether they are right for you only you can decide.

Thanks for your comments Ian

Regrettably I paid upfront by credit card for their line rental saver and have read comments on this forum about difficulty in obtaining refunds when trying to leave part way through the contract period.

Does anyone know if refusal to refund would also apply in this instance (a couple of days after the order has been made) or has the contract effectively been entered into?

Also, does anyone have any experience of cancelling on order like this before activation? Is it likely to cause me a melt down?!?!

Thanks again all - much appreciated

Edited by deleted (Wed 05-Aug-15 12:15:11)

If you've only just signed up for LRS then I think there should be a cooling down period - worth checking. Or have you had phone with PlusNet already?

If the order has not gone to the wholesaler than flipping to another provider for the order is easy, if the migration has already had its wheels set in motion then changing can cause order systems to get confused.

Our volume of votes seems much higher than trust pilot, and as well as after a speed test people get email reminders to rate their provider each month.

Based on how users have behaved in the last 15 years, we can see some people having problems but nothing like the meltdown we see if problems have affected the majority for other providers in the past.

This may help from PlusNet's terms and conditions:
"Cancellation

You can cancel a service anytime up to 14 calendar days after the day we accepted your order (except for BT Sport, Plusnet Protect or YouView TV from Plusnet channel packs, which you must keep for at least 30 days). If you cancel after we start to provide the service, you must pay the service subscription charge for any period that the service was made available to you and for any use of that service not covered by the subscription charge, up to the date that you told us you wanted to cancel, and return any equipment we supply that is needed to use that service. You will also need to pay any installation, connection or activation charges associated with that service - including the full cost of charges that were discounted or advertised as free as a condition of taking the service on the terms that you agreed when we accepted your order. If the service you sign-up for is an additional feature, a re-contract and/or upgrade, upon cancelling the service we may revert you to your previous contract or the closest matching service.
You can cancel your order for any equipment up to 14 calendar days after the day on which we deliver it to you or any person you nominate to receive it.
Where you cancel as set out in paragraph 10 or 11 above and are required to return any equipment to us, you must return the equipment to us (undamaged and in its original packaging) within 14 days of cancellation. Unless we agree otherwise, you are responsible for the cost of returning any equipment. We will refund anything you have already paid for the equipment, but we may reduce that refund by an appropriate amount up to the full value of the refund where the equipment is damaged, or we consider that the equipment has been used more than absolutely necessary to verify that it was fit for purpose. We may offer to collect the equipment from you and if you agree, we will charge you our reasonable costs for doing so. These rights are in addition to any other statutory rights you may have to cancel your agreement."
So you have 14 days from the date you placed your order to cancel without penalty.

LRS is refundable within the first 14 days after ordering:-

https://www.plus.net/home-broadband/line-rental-save...

https://www.plus.net/home-broadband/line-rental-saver/

In reply to a post by Psyman:

However since then, I've looked at a number of other websites (trustpilot for example) where Plusnet get REALLY BAD feedback and I'm starting to think I might have made a terrible mistake.....

So...... can anyone explain the apparent discrepancy between the PN reviews on TBB vs a number of other sites?

People who have problems complain, people who don't take their service for granted. Plusnet has, I forget, almost a million customers? They only have to have problems with a small percentage and they're going to get a lot of self selecting bad reviews. Also, and you can sometimes see this on these forums, some upset customers will make it their life's work to destroy the reputation of a company to the point they appear to require professional help.

I've been with Plusnet numerous times since the 90s and more recently for 80/20 FTTC for an 18 month span and again for another few months - actually leaving for BT who have worse customer service than Plusnet but can offer me broadband and phone for £8/month(after vouchers and cashback). I would definitely stay with Plusnet if there was no financial incentive from BT, broadband is fine and customer service are UK based and fairly easy to deal with and approachable.

So to sum up I'd say the reviews are completely unrepresentative of a typical customer's experience. After my contract with BT ends I will be only too glad to consider moving back to Plusnet assuming the company is no different than it is now.

If all goes well and you have no problems you should be fine. If however you do have issues getting through to support can be an issue with long telephone queues and then the support you get may be very variable.

You might also take a look at the Your Feedback, ADSL and Fibre boards on Plusnet's own forums: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php

In reply to a post by jelv:

You might also take a look at the Your Feedback, ADSL and Fibre boards on Plusnet's own forums: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php

Yes, but again, he must remember forums are, more often than not, about problems(if rather less vitriolically expressed than TrustPilot) - what is useful perhaps is watching how staff interact with customers so you get a feel for how the company deals with customers when the proverbial hits the fan.

There's plenty of topics over there which would have to be watched for quite some time before he saw how the staff interacted!

Thanks to you all for your helpful comments.

I have to say I am somewhat reassured but do still have a niggling doubts. I have been used to a fairly rock solid 75 down and 19.5 up, and pings of 9-12ms, with the Infinity 2 service and haven't noticed any significant issues during peak usage hours etc, so am confident there's no issues with my line (the cabinet is about 150m down my road).

I noticed that many of the negative comments on Trustpilot relate to issues around moving home, or change of service / account issues, but a reasonable number were comments on poor speed and contention issues. It's difficult for someone like me (who is fairly technically minded but has no real knowledge of the workings of ISPs or how they compare day to day) to make a judgement about whether to change provider without relying on what I can read online. It does complicate things somewhat to be presented with such seemingly contrasting information, but I certainly take on board the point made about most people's propensity to have a good moan when things go bad (certainly I have in my time).

I also appreciate the explanations around how TBB data is collated and the reassurance from those of you who have been or are with PN.

I think I will continue with the transfer and just see what happens. It will no doubt be stressful if it turns out to be a nightmare, but I guess changing now the "wheels are in motion" as Mr Saffron put it, is probably likely to cause me even more grief!

I accept that PN clearly have issues with customer service response times at the moment and I'm just really hoping the router will turn up, activation will go swimmingly and I'll have no issues! Cross fingers!

Final questions:

i) the router provided by PN is said not to be up to much. Should I be looking at buying my own and, if so, anyone have any recommendations?

ii) Does anyone have any experience of the "Plus net pro" add on, which I gather is intended to swing traffic management in the customers favour? If my service is not actually as good as Infinity 2, is this add on (@ £5 per month) likely to solve things?

Thanks again all.... you have really helped a noob from stressing to the max.....!

Folks should post negative reviews equally everywhere, more so here if it's the biggest site, but they never have. Very strange. It's not just Trustpilot, look at Ispreview or anywhere else and you will find one star prevails. Numbers apart, the overall star average should be the same on all sites, but never have been here for some reason. If RobertoS is moving on, someone has defended Plusnet to the last, that should say all they needs to be said about Plusnet.

Edited by professor973 (Wed 05-Aug-15 21:49:35)

I've been with Plusnet for a number of years now and have never been disappointed with the level of service. I would go as far as saying I've had a better service in recent months than I did years ago when I first joined before the 'so called' recent developments.

Up until May 2015, I lived in a small village between Reading and Basingstoke that suffered with very bad ADSL. Cutting a long story short, the reliable ISP I was with got swallowed up by Tiscali/TalkTalk and was ruined in months. I switched to Plusnet and they were superb in getting my ADSL line working to the max capability (which at it's peak was a whopping 3.9Mb/s down and 300k up so long as the wind was blowing the rain in the right direction. Prior to Plusnet, it was stuck at 0.9Mb/s and around 100Kb/s up. Plusnet fought hard with BT to get them to fix the bad line between my property and the nearby junction box.

A few years back, we even got FTTC and I jumped up to a 78Mb/s down, 19Mb/s up connection. Absolutely rock solid, great performance and only 2 failures which were down to BT equipment falling over.

In May, I had to move to an area where there simply was no chance of getting FTTC. So back to my old ADSL days. Stayed with Plusnet, no reason to change company.
I'm only 1Km from the exchange, excellent line stats and should have seen speeds of around 17-20Mb/s down, 1.5Mb/s up.
Only problem was, on connecting up ADSL, speeds were varying between 0.33Mb/s -> 9Mb/s and BT were insistent on there not being a problem.
Three months of sending out BT engineers did not deter PlusNet from phoning me each week with an update. They would sometimes phone me up when they had spoken to BT just to give me another progress report. Because the fault was 'random' and didn't occur when a BT Engineer was here, BT's systems couldn't deal with it.
Don't get me wrong, every BT engineer who visited worked hard to try and find a problem. I knew from day one it required a lift and shift, but try getting BT to sort that out without first seeing concrete evidence of a problem, regardless of any logs you might show them.
Plusnet didn't once let them off the hook. Finally, BT agreed to a lift and shift, and low and behold, they find a defective Power supply in the exchange injecting noise across multiple cabinets. For the last two months, the line has been running a nice steady 18Mb/s down, 1.2Mbs Up.
I use a 4G(EE) connection to boost my upload speed when I need it, so having the 17Mb/s was all I needed.
PlusNet have also emailed and phoned a couple of times just to make sure things are Ok.

I'm thinking I might have lucked out with the right person/team taking responsibility for my issue. But it goes against everything I've been reading in the various forums. PlusNet has been fantastic all the time I've been with them.
Trust me, after the hassles I had with Tiscali/TalkTalk, if Plusnet showed the slightest sign of going the same way, I'd be off in a jiffy.

Remember, people only tend to go online and complain when things go wrong.
You don't find too many Brits go online when things are hunky dory and going swimmingly. It's not the done thing...
Yes Plusnet has grown massively, so perhaps thats where the increase in noise comes from and there will be more teething troubles as they evolve.

I just wanted to throw a bit of positive feedback towards Plusnet... they've been nothing short of perfect for me since I've signed with them which must be over 5 years or so now.

(Edit: I started writing this before you posted this . So had no knowledge of your post or the intervening ones. I stand by this post, which was not influenced by those others.)

First, some information - the Ofcom rules about the migration process. Then my opinion of your position.

Customer�s termination rights

22.5 When the Customer enters into a contract for the provision of Communications Services, the Gaining Provider must allow the Customer to terminate the contract from the point of sale to the completion of the Transfer Period without charge or any other form of compensation being required to be given by the Customer to the Gaining Provider.

22.6 The Gaining Provider must have procedures in place to enable the Customer to exercise their right to terminate their contract pursuant to Condition 22.5 without unreasonable effort. These procedures must include the ability to contact the Gaining Provider to terminate the contract by any of the following contact methods:

(a) telephone

(b) e-mail;

(c) post.

I think Plusnet would be hard pushed if they tried to justify refusing to refund your Line Rental Saver payment.

With regard to your continuing and joining, or backing out, there are two aspects to the current discontent.

1) The September price rises for line rental, call plans and charges, and an associated rise in the LRS price where it isn't anything like as significant as heretofore. I expect you have got in with the pre-September price .

The reasons for these increases appear to be largely the same as the late September rises by BT.

So really, nothing there for you to be concerned about as long as you have been informed of the September call package and out of package call prices.

2) The ongoing degradation of the Customer Service side of things. Again, this is a comparative assessment by the complainers. The service that is being aimed for by senior management may very well be satisfactory once in full working order. But eighteen months ago it was exemplary. Many long-term customers are therefore very unhappy. There are a few aspects to these CS changes.

2.1 When I joined there was a team of what are usually called forum reps. Their official title was the Digital Care Team. The people in that team were in general excellent, and clearly had considerable power behind the scenes to get individual customer serious problems solved very quickly and "additional training" given to first-line telephone support staff where mistakes had obviously been made.

Soon after the current CEO, Andy Baker, was appointed by BT, about the first thing we became aware of was the dismantling of that team. Some of the best (at least from our point of view) were moved elsewhere in Plusnet, including the manager. A new Customer Relations Team was set up, with the remaining members of the DCT and a few new members.

I think the title change says it all. The job description appears to be to try to calm down complaining customers, but with clear rules as to what they can and cannot say. They can no longer say (imply) exactly what they think, and have much less internal power. They are still useful, and I think in the last couple of months have regained some influence, but nothing like they had. The current staff I regard as providing excellent support on both this and the Community forums within the current constraints on them. (That's another point. The DCT people were present most days on these forums. The CRT people are very rarely seen here but still highly visible on the Community forums).

They are now more like a publicly available Tier 2 support, whereas before they seemed well above that. But with what other major ISP do you have direct public access to second tier support? It's still better than where you are now.

2.2 One of Plusnet's selling points was the 24/7 telephone support. It is now up till 10pm I think and even harder to get through, often with horrendous wait times. The wait times have been too long for over a year, with promise after promise of improvement before long. Things have got worse, not better.

2.3 In the last couple of months the "Ticket" system has become virtually extinct in terms of the customer reporting or requesting anything. It is a travesty. It has been made extremely difficult even to raise a ticket, and most that are raised seem to get a reply saying this is no longer handled here, please use the online Chat. Which like the phone system has restricted times and ridiculous waits.

Few of us can, and probably none of us want to, hang on a phone wait or a Chat start wait for up forty minutes when our non-urgent request can be explained in five minutes typing on a ticket, which then gets progressed behind the scenes to our full satisfaction.

Even worse, some people get onto Chat and having explained what they want are told they have to phone for that.

I think that's enough. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the message. It's no wonder you see a huge volume of complaints elsewhere.

3) A while ago, Plusnet introduced a very strange FTTC product. They had the 80/20 and 40/10 ones (with the slightly lower figures all ISPs have to advertise). The 40/10 one was changed to 40/20!

That made it unique so far as I know. But the only way to provide it was by supplying the 80/20 and capping the downstream to 40Mbps withing the Plusnet system. So PN paid for 80/20 and received 40/10 income from the customers .

It pulled people in, as no doubt intended, but there seems to have been an unintended consequence. People stopped joining on the higher priced 80/20. Not surprising, seeing as very few can get anywhere near that speed.

So what did they do in July? They withdrew it. As they had to. But they didn't reinstate the 40/10. They substituted 40/2, at the same price. Equal if not greater madness than the 40/20 in the first place. Not surprisingly, lots of criticism in the forums.

4) Me personally. I joined in February 2012, from IDNet FTTC, and have never regretted it. I got a product that performed just as well, excellent support, and a huge saving.

I began recommending Plusnet and still believe I was right to do so. However about six months ago I felt I could no longer do this, largely in case they did have a problem and came up against the Customer Service mess. TI'd feel mortified.

he ongoing broadband service is still reasonably good, but there are a few niggles that either didn't really matter or have now gone on far too long without resolution.

I leave Plusnet a week today. Largely because I don't want to be with a supplier I cannot in good conscience recommend - though equally I cannot say "Keep clear!" I'm also a bit concerned that if I do have a serious problem with the broadband I would find it harder to get solved. I'm sure it would still be solved, but with hassle not efficiency. I've only had one serious problem, a few months ago, and that was handled perfectly.

So!

Mixed messages from me. I've nothing really to complain about from my personal experience. But I don't feel comfortable with the direction the CEO is taking Plusnet. I'm voting with my wallet.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 05-Aug-15 22:18:53)

So what about cutting fibre upload speed from 20 to 2 mb, or scrapping the ticket system, not that they answered under a week anyway, with the phone nearly as long. The only competent customer services used to be the bods that dropped in here. They are virtually non existent now. If there is a switching cock-up, it's always Plusnet - Strange when BT have many millions of customers but don't show this problem, but still Plusnet praised to the rafters. They are just a cheap and cheerful supplier, so long as you are not on a Market 1 exchange, no more than that and getting less attractive by the month. One star reviews everywhere else. http://www.broadband.co.uk/broadband/providers/plusn...
On one site, a director states "Our prices only ever come down" http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/05/uk-isp-...

Edited by professor973 (Wed 05-Aug-15 22:20:01)

In reply to a post by professor973:

RobertoS is moving on, someone has defended Plusnet to the last, that should say all they needs to be said about Plusnet.

I'm not sure I appreciate that. It far from reflects my views, given in the post I started drafting before you posted. Nor have I "defended Plusnet to the last". I have been quite vocal in my criticisms here in the last couple of months, and much more so in the Community forums. But not in the way you imply.

Plusnet remain a viable, cheap, and better than many ISP. The OP may very well find nothing wrong with them from their point of view.

See my post above and you will see I also see them as a cheap ISP for some also, not me on Market 1 and pointed to some of the shortcomings and changes of late. The cutting of fibre to 2mb upload maked the service as much use as a chocolate fireguard. That will never attract anyone who has 8 - 10 mb of ADSL.

http://www.broadband.co.uk/broadband/reviews/

I looked but Plusnet seems to rank well, even if you are seeing some one star reviews on that site.

Thanks for your helpful and honest comments Shinerweb and RobertoS.... very much appreciated.

I think I'm still prepared to proceed, despite some reservations. In any event trying to reverse the transfer now is likely to cause all sorts of issues.

Yes RobertoS I did sign up for LRS before the increase and overall even with PN's new prices I will be considerably better off then I was with BT.

I'm hoping that if I'm paying PN for an 80:20 service then that's what I'll get and judging by your comments this seems likely, even accepting the recent history re: customer service / questionable business / product decisions well summarised by RobetoS.

So, can anyone offer advice re: the router and has anyone had experience of PN's pro-add on? I assume BT will ask for my HomeHub4 back, but I guess I'll get to keep the Openreach fibre box for the PN router to plug into?

Thanks again guys.....

My view is mixed as well.

Pros and cons.

Pros

Best deal for what plusnet can provide, so static ip, unlimited data usage, 80/20.
if there is network issues then hopping can resolve it due to how plusnet's network is made up.
Forum staff although seem to be becoming less and less frequent available, do still offer reasonably good support if not prepared to use normal support channels.
Plusnet charge a fraction of the wholesale price for chargeable visits.
Cheap cancellation fees before end of contract compared to other providers.
No offshore support.

Cons

A profile system that can lag behind BTw's profile system.
Network performance issues affecting parts of their userbase.
Weird akamai network issues.
Long waits for support staff via both live chat and phone.
Problematic migrations, new orders etc.
If estimated speed under 40mbit downstream then can only order 40/2 product.
If you like to use isp supplied routers, plusnet's is below par.

i moved from BT in june 2014. I kept the openreach box and BT asked for my HomeHub 3 back, but i kept it. BT didnt care.

I bought an ASUS AC-68U which has enough speed to cope with the faster speeds of FTTC if you need it to.

Plusnet is one of the few ISPs that sell a static IP option and for only a one off payment.

I haven't any experience of the current Sagecom, but it does seem to be poorly regarded. If you have a BT HH5 that will work perfectly well on Plusnet.

The Pro addon some people find useful. Others find it makes little difference. There are no doubt many factors in play, including your actual line and routing to Plusnet through the BT Cloud.

It is quite separate from your overall contract and is purely on monthly terms. AIUI (but not certain) you can "order/turn it on" through your Control Centre yourself, and off again if you find no improvement. I suggest you start without it and see how things go for a couple of weeks or a month. Then if you feel like it give it a try and see if it improves anything, to the value of £60 per year .

A static IP address is nice to have so you can run the thinkbroadband BQM. See the link in my sig. It's a one-off £5, definitely done through your Control Centre (Connection settings). Go through that, then when it says it is set, just disconnect the router from Plusnet and reconnect. No need to disconnect from the DSL.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I leave Plusnet a week today. Largely because I don't want to be with a supplier I cannot in good conscience recommend ...

Who are you moving to?

AAISP Home::1. Phone went to Pulse8 (from BT) on 28 July.

AAISP are supposed to be launching some new packages soon(ish?), was interested to see what they might be - but my migration is in progress now.

Where to in your case?

The AAISP new products I believe are far from imminent . As it was put to me, RevK's blog post might have been a little premature.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Where to in your case?

The AAISP new products I believe are far from imminent . As it was put to me, RevK's blog post might have been a little premature.

I'm moving to BT purely on the basis that after vouchers and cashback(£125+£157) I end up paying £8/month for fibre and phone combined over 12 months. Once the 12 months is up I will migrate to a new ISP.

BT customer service seems rather awful compared to Plusnet, hope I don't have any issues.

Playing ISP cashback/voucher ping-pong does have it's advantages, since December last year I've earned about £280 in cashback and vouchers, when I move to BT that will rise to £560 in around 9 months. There have been ups and downs to switching ISPs but it is also quite an interesting experience.

aaisp need to get a move on.

I almost ordered a 2nd line with them ages ago only to find out they dont have talktalk backhaul on FTTC services. Then I find out a few weeks back pulse8 are using ttb just fine on FTTC, so why arent aaisp using it? cost?

Of course also this supposed new product line up that has yet to occur.

If i go ahead with the second line it will now probably be with pulse8. I am still deciding between using VM cable or talktalk based FTTC for my second connection.

In reply to a post by professor973:

So what about cutting fibre upload speed from 20 to 2 mb, or scrapping the ticket system, not that they answered under a week anyway, with the phone nearly as long.

Don't get me wrong, I've heard and believe some of the scary stories posted here and I don't dispute them one bit. It's obviously happened to those people.
I merely wanted to balance the discussion a little to say it's not all been bad at least from my point of view. So yes, some bad things are happening, but it's equally true to say they are getting some things right as well. Any corporation is going to have 'issues'.

I'm keeping my eye on them and I'll jump ship the instant my service level drops below what I expect, but nothing in my recent experience has caused me to contemplate that action as of yet.

99.99% of all my connection issues have been related to BTOR equipment or services. Where I live, I'm tied to using BTOR unless I switch to 4G/Satellite services and that isn't going to happen.
Switching to a premium ISP even with their cracking support and "superior" internal network won't have prevented any of my issues, it would merely have drained my bank account.
I've never ever had issues contacting PN support.
I left my last ISP when the script monkeys they had would insist that I verify my PC was actually plugged into the wall every time I spoke to them regardless of what ever debug info I would give them.

Again, just wanted to point out that there are probably more happier people than there are unhappy. It's us purists who are worried about the direction they are taking.

I've had no real problems with Plus.Net - whilst the house move was a bit of a problem, it didn't take a long time to get everything sort (especially after I got my Home Hub 5). Speeds are consistently fast.

The only real problems I have at the moment is trying to get my YouView PVR sent back - so far, no returns bag has materialised, so I hope the last online chat will solve it.

The telephone waiting times are poor - whenever I have had to phone the wait time was always over 30 minutes - which is why I tend to use the online chat. Whilst the wait time for that could possibly be improved, a 5 minute wait or so isn't too bad (and gives me the time to write my message anyway). Plus, it does have the advantage of not having to wait for an answer and you can get a record of the conversation in case there is a dispute.

Don't forget the less technical person probably would be elsewhere, hence the reviews elsewhere. Sometimes it seems that the writer cant really work out how to turn their computer on, and blame PlusNet for that... Which does make me think that a few of the complaints that PlusNet do get are actually caused by other companies, namely BT OpenReach.

Not particularly looking forward to the price rises in September. However, if you want a decent service, PlusNet will still be the cheapest fibre plus line rental around.

Edited by deleted (Thu 06-Aug-15 15:59:26)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

AAISP Home::1. Phone went to Pulse8 (from BT) on 28 July.

Great choice. Too expensive for my usage.

So back to ADSL2+ ?

On the odd occasion I would like a 2mbps upload as I only get 0.8mbps but for 98% of the time I don't need it. There must be thousands of other users of the internet that would be more than happy with 40 down and 2 up.

What has that got to do with Bob switching from fibre back to ADSL2+ ?

That isn't necessarily the case as Home 1 also has the options of 80/20 and 40/10 as an addon

I know - another £35 for 80/20 making £60 and still limited to 100GB without paying even more, with expense of line to add.

It's an extra £15 for 80/20 on top of the adsl2+ price.

In reply to a post by gmoorc:

It's an extra £15 for 80/20 on top of the adsl2+ price.

Yeah, My bad. Just noticed it should be £40 and not £60. What threw me, was the £35 for another add on ... 200GB usage making £75 without line rental which is worse, and a silly price to me for what is still a limited service, be it more than enough for most folks.

Yep. The page could probably do with being a bit clearer because.....you've misread it again

At least I think so! The way I read it is that £35 is the full price of Home::1 with 200GB included.
Then add on £15 for the 80/20 so £50

Then another tenner for 300GB.

I'm on the 100GB for £7pm more than the full LLU at Pulse8.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I'm on the 100GB for £7pm more than the full LLU at Pulse8.

One reason I moved to Plusnet was I had no real idea of my usage on BT.

Plusnet's system shows I use over 100GB every month, at least twice in the last year I've had months of 250GB but typically I'm around 130 to 150gb of usage.

AAISP seem to think 100GB a month is "very high usage" but they've not seen most of my friends who have children, they must be using over 500GB a month.

I seem to be doing around 50GB.

I haven't ruled out a move to Pulse8 in the future. Thought I would go this way first. It's only a six-month minimum term.

"That will never attract anyone who has 8 - 10 mb of ADSL. "

I didn't think that I needed to quote you but obviously I do.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Then another tenner for 300GB.

I'm on the 100GB for £7pm more than the full LLU at Pulse8.

But that does not include line rental you are paying P8, so £21 more think. I am getting confused here as to you going to AAISP fibre or ADSL2+ and their confusing pages and add on's don't help. If fibre, assume you on 6 month contract.

AAISP Home::1 £25 + £10 40/10 + £5 80/20 + Pulse8 Line rental £13 + Caller display £1 (inc free basic 1571) = £54.

Pulse8 80/20 £44 inc line + static IP £2 + Caller display £1 = £47.

Don't pay for P8 caller display, or at least I don't as far as I know, but at least it explains their confusing pages.

Edited by professor973 (Fri 07-Aug-15 18:49:00)

It lists it. How much are you paying?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It lists it.

Where?

How much are you paying?

As I said, nothing. Caller display free. In fact see my latest bill I got today - lots of calls at barely 1p! http://postimg.org/image/jcrlnkozf/

Edited by professor973 (Fri 07-Aug-15 19:43:24)

Ok, from your link which daft me didn't follow at first, £44pm.

Hmmm.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 07-Aug-15 20:54:35)

According to the pic £46.22

Edited by deleted (Fri 07-Aug-15 20:25:15)

In reply to a post by professor973:

As I said, nothing. Caller display free. In fact see my latest bill I got today - lots of calls at barely 1p! http://postimg.org/image/jcrlnkozf/

£47.30 per month seem alot of money!

Edited by adslmax (Fri 07-Aug-15 20:41:28)

D'oh!

But you were on the brink of signing up to them Max . Until you realised you needed the Anytime calls, though maybe you didn't at 1p per minute.

We aren't all as good as you at screwing Plusnet to the wall . If I'd stayed with them I would have been paying £33.99, as I wouldn't want to be on a two-year minimum term. Prof is on a monthly contract for both his phone and FTTC!

I'm on monthly for the phone at £14, and will be on six months for my FTTC.

Yeah true. I rather like to keep my budget cost low! I got no other option choice but stay with Plusnet for bargain deal for 2 years as I do need unlimited anytime call. Hopefully in 2 years time pulse8 might have G.Fast 500/100 for £25 a month LOL

Edited by adslmax (Fri 07-Aug-15 21:04:17)

Plusnet Anytime calls. £6pm from next month.

That 600p. That 600 minutes on Pulse8, and they bill by the second. That's a lot of minutes .

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by professor973:

As I said, nothing. Caller display free. In fact see my latest bill I got today - lots of calls at barely 1p! http://postimg.org/image/jcrlnkozf/

£47.30 per month seem alot of money!

Possibly it does, until you find it's cheaper than plusnet! - BT for example are now putting line rental up to £17:99. Because of their scandalous call connection fee, per minute billing instead of per second and high call rates, you really have to add the anytime call add-on, so that is about £26:00 before you even think about 1471 etc, or Broadband and a long contract tie-in.

and that is why a move to Pulse 8 for the phone only will save me a packet as I won't need anytime calls
All we need is another price hike after my Line Rental Saver runs out

"Anytime" is even more of a con that "unlimited" for most people. Though of course the firms like BT and Plusnet have ridiculous other costs for phone calls if you don't use a Plan. The ~10p-11p setup at the start of the call, and several pence per minute while it takes place. Quite disgusting.

I wonder how many people on "Anytime" make ten hours of calls a month. Except 10 hours at those companies' rates would cost a fortune of course.

Total ripoff.

The anytime call plan can be removed at anytime (only for LRS) as if I don't expect to make any calls next month I just simply removed it off.

I agree over rip off anytime call plan. I try to look up history of my calls over the last six months was 42 hours of calls in total.

I wonder how many people on "Anytime" make ten hours of calls a month.

My dear wife has no problem. In fact an hour isn't always enough and we're charged by the minute thereafter

Pulse8 Line Rental cost was back to last year @ £13 inc VAT without broadband) or £6 inc VAT (with pulse 8 XL broadband)

So, I don't know if pulse8 line rental will going to increase later this year?

Your wife could always hung up after 59 minutes and redial for another 59 minutes!

I agree I do hate this BT rules: first 60 minutes is free after that it will be charged unless u can hung up and redial it. I hate that!

Edited by adslmax (Fri 07-Aug-15 23:12:55)

I know that, Max. But just you try interrupting my wife in the middle of her 90-minute weekly download to her sister. It's like the nature film of the two lionesses only you're the baby antelope in the middle, and you're the lunch.

Excellently put!

...and I thought that my wife and her sister were unique 8^).

Best one so far 2hrs 24mins cost £8.20. Fortunately that was an incoming call so I get to have some fun mentioning it to my brother in law now and again

Post deleted by Apprentice

Hi, you've all been so helpful I thought I'd pick you brains again if that's OK?!?!

I'm a couple of days away from my transfer to plusnet from BT Infinity 2 as per above (D-day = Mon 17th).

BT advised I'd have to return my Home Hub 4 and I read that the PN Sagem router (which arrived yesterday) isn't up to much. So I bought a Home Hub 5 (Type B) off of ebay as I read good reviews, that it will work fine with PN and I just like the look of Home Hubs.

Anyhow, I swapped the OR modem and HH4 out on Thursday for the HH5. The wireless signal and speed is much improved about the house and TBB speedtests showed the same results as previously.... see:

Thurs after HH5 install

I was really happy! Using the internet generally just seemed much zippier for some reason and I put that down for swapping 2 boxes for 1 one (though I accept it might just have been a perception!).

Then yesterday (Friday 14th) I noticed everything seemed to slow down -pages were slightly slower load etc. I did some more TBB speedtests and, although the speeds are the same as before, the ping has doubled from 12-15ms to 25-30ms.

See: Example Fri / Sat

I guess this could be down to:

i) the new router (though it was OK on Thurs?)
ii) something to do with the transfer to PN (BT know I'm leaving and perhaps are providing a slightly reduced service?!?!)
iii) some coincidental issue with BTs network (congestion)?

I went onto online chat with BT Tech support just to ask if it was an issue their end - they looked into, didn't confirm if there was a problem but insisted on performing a "Session fix" and promised that normal pings would be restored shortly.

However 2 hours on, pings remain between 25-30ms.

I've done some tracerts but don't really understand what they show, other than the pings at the bottom are consistent with the higher pings report by the TBB, speednet and BT speed testers.

Any ideas / advise / suggestions? Or am I just being "precious" about it?!?

Thanks

more than likely something to do with compatibility with the fibre cabinets equipment locally, I'm guessing the modem the was connected between master socket and BT Hub 4 was manufactured by ECI?

These modems are known to have capability issues with a certain brand of Fibre cabinet!

Yes, the OR modem is made by ECI.....

So, if I put the modem back and connect it to the HH5's via it's Broadband WAN socket, that might solve it?

I can live with two boxes if it means I get the best performance.....

I'll try and come back with an update.... thanks!

Post deleted by RobertoS

So I've tried all the various configurations:

1) Have put the OR modem back into operation in conjunction with the HH5, see

OR Modem + HH5

2) Have put the HH4 back in place, with the OR modem (obviously):

OR Modem + HH4

3) and finally connected the HH5 back in place using it's internal modem (no OR modem):

HH5 only direct to phone line

And all of the results are the same! I take this to mean that all of this hardware is working as it should (since the result is consistent) and the cause is outside my home?

The way the chap at BT responded was as if he had identified a problem and the "Session fix" would be the definitive solution - "your normal ping will be restored" is effectively what he said, but clearly that's not the case.

Could this all be down to issues within BTs network, rather than causes 1 or 2 mentioned above?

Any other ideas or suggestions?

The changeover to PN is Monday - is it likely any ping reduction will continue after the transfer? I know PN are part of BT, but have no idea to what extent they share systems / capability behind the scenes?

I guess I'll probably just have to wait and see what I get with PN next week....

Thanks

I never rely on the latency from tbb speedtester. It is highly variable and is more of a diagnostic for "buffer bloat" when streaming than pings for gaming.

Once you are on Plusnet, I suggest you go into your Member Centre >> Connection Details and you will see an icon for "Static IP". It costs £5 but it's a one-off charge, not monthly. Then you can set up a thinkbroadband BQM, as in my sig. That's brilliant.

If you are familiar with the CLI (assuming Windows), then these are also useful, to any destination you wish:-

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.3.9600]
(c) 2013 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Bob>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.20] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=56
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=56
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=56
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=56

Ping statistics for 212.58.244.20:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 14ms, Maximum = 15ms, Average = 14ms

C:\Users\Bob>tracert bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.20]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 4 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 16 ms 14 ms 12 ms alt.a.gormless.thn.aa.net.uk [90.155.53.71]
3 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms a.aimless.thn.aa.net.uk [90.155.53.41]
4 15 ms 14 ms 14 ms bbc-linx.pr01.thdow.bbc.co.uk [195.66.224.103]
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 14 ms 14 ms 15 ms ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.109]
8 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms 132.185.255.149
9 14 ms 14 ms 14 ms fmt-vip71.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.20]

Trace complete.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 15-Aug-15 16:27:14)

Ok, so it seems that DLM has decided to intervene with your line for some reason...

I would plug your HH5 in directly without any other modems and then just leave it on... hopefully the connection will update in the coming week or two and configure the line as it was previously.

with any luck your DLM profile might reset when you switch to Plusnet..

Do you know if your cabinet is a ECI or Huawei?

Thanks RobertoS. I take your point re: accuracy - I just guess since I'd noticed a doubling in ping irrespective of the speedtester i use (TBB, Speednet or BT wholesale) that something must be adrift.

I will definitely pay for the static IP and set up the BQM as suggested - that should satisfy my need to keep on eye on the service I'm getting!

I did some pings, see attached to compare with yours....

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Simon>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.20] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=53

Ping statistics for 212.58.244.20:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 22ms, Maximum = 22ms, Average = 22ms

C:\Users\Simon>tracert bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.104]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms bthub.home [192.168.1.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 23 ms 22 ms 22 ms 31.55.187.172
5 22 ms 22 ms 22 ms 195.99.127.168
6 22 ms 22 ms 22 ms 195.99.127.7
7 22 ms 22 ms 22 ms 194.74.65.42
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 23 ms 25 ms 25 ms ae0.er01.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.93]
10 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms 132.185.255.165
11 24 ms 23 ms 24 ms fmt-vip133.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.104]

Trace complete.

It is certainly slower than it was, but I will just wait for the PN activation and see what my fate holds!

Thanks for your advice

Yes, quite possibly, and that's what the BT tech guy was trying to clear - but presumably failed. It's weird that the down and up speeds are pretty much the same as before (though perhaps fractionally slower) but the ping appears to have doubled.

All a bit odd..... guess I will see what happens on Monday!

Not sure re: the cabinet - it's just at the end of my road. How would I find out whether it's ECI or Huawei?

Thanks for your help!

See which cabinet matches yours at this link http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/fttc-cabinets.htm#fttc_st...

Just took a stroll down the road to have a look see and it's an ECI cabinet.....

So are you thinking that when I was using the ECI OR modem it was a happier combination and the DLM has kicked in because I'm not using the OR modem anymore?

How would I find out whether it's ECI or Huawei?

Which exchange and what is the cabinet number please?

Exchange is Moorhill (Southampton).

Just been down to look at the cabinet and it appears to be an ECI from the pictures in the earlier link. Couldn't see any numbered stickers on it though?

I read on another forum that the Home Hub 5 .... "Type A uses a Lantiq chipset and suffers the same problems as ECI modems which also use Lantiq chipsets while the Type B uses a Broadcom chipset like the HG612"

.....so the Type B (which I have) has a chipset more compatible (according to other discussions) with a Huawei cabinet? Is that right?

Other threads suggest BTOR implement a best practice of using an ECI modem with an ECI cabinet and vice versa? So maybe I would have been better off buying a HH5(A)?!?

Edited by deleted (Sat 15-Aug-15 17:39:53)

I've just found this - it's a couple of years old but describes a situation almost exactly the same as mine.....

Perhaps I should restore the ECI OR modem with the HH5 and leave it for a while to see what happens?

External discussion

Exchange is Moorhill (Southampton).

All FTTC cabinets on the Moorhill exchange are currently ECI.

Other threads suggest BTOR implement a best practice of using an ECI modem with an ECI cabinet and vice versa?

That is apparently what was intended but it appears BT forgot to inform those doing the installations with the result that users got whichever make of modem was closest to hand in the van which for a time seemed to mean that everyone got an ECI modem regardless as to the make of the FTTC cabinet to which they were connected.

FTTC cabinets don't normally have numbers. The number is on the associated PCP (phone cabinet), which should be within 50 metres of it.

There are two questions to do with the cabinet<>modem compatability. In general it seems Openreach intended them to be matched, which sounds sensible, and it does seem normally to give the best result.

There have been a few cases we have seen here where mis-matched have worked better than matched. That will be down to unusual line conditions I think.

The second question is of a recent upgrade on Huawei cabinets to add G.INP, which largely replaces interleaving on FTTC. It works by retransmitting duff packets instead.

The initial rollout was on Huawei cabinets, (not ECI ones), active on both downstream and upstream. It was great with Huawei modems but caused chaos on ECI modems. That was "temporarily" solved by Openreach disabling it on the upstream.

I believe it is also to be rolled out on ECI cabinets, so maybe it has been on yours.

In your situation I would definitely replace the ECI modem and feed the HH5 WAN socket from it. Whatever the theory might say. You are just looking for the best for your line, and initially that seems to have been the modem.

Equally, many FTTC connections lose speed over time as more connections are added to the cabinet, due to something called crosstalk. That's a discussion in its own right and may be why your speed results have fallen a little. Don't forget the latency shown on those tests is not indicative of non-streaming performance.

Even if the ECI modem suits your connection better, don't expect any improvement for 2-3 weeks or perhaps even longer. Whilst the BT Wholesale IP Profile responds immediately when the sync changes, the Openreach DLM takes its time removing any restrictions it has placed.

A further point there, are you aware of the Plusnet Current line speed?

I love these forums .... I learn so much!

OK, so I have put the ECI OR modem back in place and connected it via the HH5 WAN socket..... as you say, it was performing best with the ECI modem / cab pairing so I hope it will right itself in time, but it's hardly a problem as it is to be fair. The main thing for me is the much improved AC wireless of the HH5 over the HH4 it replaced

I've signed into the PN member centre and it says:

Telephone number:
02380******
Phone exchange:
MOORHILL
Estimated line speed:
70Mb (Download speed could vary depending on line conditions. Estimates are the maximum speeds that your phone line can support. These speeds are dependent on the package you choose.) - Checked on 2015-08-03 12:01:00
Current line speed:
Not set

So I guess they haven't determined it yet and / or it will be set on Monday depending on line performance.

Will the OR DLM restriction also place a restriction on the PN profile.... or are the two entirely separate and the OR one effectively works like a cap... if you see what I mean?

Thanks again!

Edited by deleted (Sat 15-Aug-15 19:01:04)

The Current Line Speed (CLS) is set by Plusnet based on the report they collect from BT Wholesale a few times a day. On FTTC is 0.2Mbps below the IP Profile.

Because of that lag , whichever is the lower caps your speed.

Occasionally it fails to update upwards. If that happens you can try the "Chat" system, or post in the Fibre Community forum and hope a rep picks it up.

At the point Plusnet fully activate your account it will be set to the maximum for your product, until they know the IP Profile.

There's no point in setting up a BQM with the Home Hub, as they don't respond to WAN pings.

Ah!

Well, Plusnet, I've arrived!

But seriously, activation went (apparently) according to plan today. The process appears to have reset any DLM on the line or it fell off naturally in the intervening 24 hours.

The only hiccup was that the HH5 only accepts an account password with a max of 12 chars, but PN's can be longer (and mine was) .... so I had to shorten it, but other than that it's gone well.

I have to say I'm very impressed with my PN DL and UL speeds, but more importantly my pings are back to normal. In fact, they're better than when I was with BT.

Appreciate it's early days, but it looks promising...

TBB speedtest: PN Sagemcom Router

TBB speedtest: HomeHub 5(B)

And some separate pings too:

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Simon>ping bbc.co.uk

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.20] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=56
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=56
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=56
Reply from 212.58.244.20: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=56

Ping statistics for 212.58.244.20:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 10ms, Maximum = 11ms, Average = 10ms

C:\Users\Simon>

I'm made up. Pings are down from close to 30ms to 10ms, awesome! Let's hope it stays that way....

I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to all of you that have given advice through this thread. Your generous assistance is much appreciate by this newbie....

There's a fair chance all will be well. Let's hope so .

It's only some people who have problems related to gateways. Most of the time I didn't, but sometimes I did.

All the best.

In reply to a post by Psyman:

But seriously, activation went (apparently) according to plan today. The process appears to have reset any DLM on the line or it fell off naturally in the intervening 24 hours.

Yes when I migrated from BT my line was reset. I also was incorrectly migrated onto 40/10 instead of 80/20 profile - so check that.

The only hiccup was that the HH5 only accepts an account password with a max of 12 chars, but PN's can be longer (and mine was) .... so I had to shorten it, but other than that it's gone well.

Not my favourite router the HomeHub series TBH.

I have to say I'm very impressed with my PN DL and UL speeds, but more importantly my pings are back to normal. In fact, they're better than when I was with BT.

Could just be the DLM reset, and could end up where you were.

I'm made up. Pings are down from close to 30ms to 10ms, awesome! Let's hope it stays that way....

30ms sounds like interleaving without G.INP.

I'm on a Huawei cabinet with a Huawei HG612 modem, and I get G.INP, which brought my pings down from 29/30 to 11 to 15ms but still being on interleave.

Keep an eye on for the next 48 hours, and try not to turn off the router for the next 24 hours.

DLM will be assessing the line in the first 24hrs and then may apply changes.Thereafter it will continue to apply changes as and when it sees fit.
If you are going to experiment with swapping the "modem" as opposed to just the router, then the safest way (to try and avoid the wrath of DLM) if to log out of your PPP session in the Router and then power it off and wait about 30 seconds before powering off the Modem then wait a minute before you unplug it. Do not just unplug the Modem from the line. Wait at least 30 minutes absolute minimum, preferably an hour before connecting the (another) modem and powering up. When it's booted, power up the Router (if a separate device). Even taking those precautions, if noise levels are higher when you connect than they were the previous time you connected you may get a slower speed. Always run the the BTw Performance test (DON'T REBOOT, ignore the red preamble except make sure no other programs are using the Internet) and run the Further Diagnostics to check your IP Profile which is directly related to sync speed.
Speedtest throughput speeds can depend on routing and may give a misleading impression about you sync speed.

In reply to a post by ChrisAO:

DLM will be assessing the line in the first 24hrs and then may apply changes.Thereafter it will continue to apply changes as and when it sees fit.

When a line is first installed, we put it on �wide-open� profiles to monitor the line at its most raw state. On that first day of installation, DLM will only intervene on the line if it detects severe instability. Provided the line has been active for at least 15 minutes on the first day, DLM will start at midnight of the day following installation to tweak the line�s profile based on how the line is performing in real time.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

When a line is first installed, we put it on �wide-open� profiles to monitor the line at its most raw state. On that first day of installation, DLM will only intervene on the line if it detects severe instability. Provided the line has been active for at least 15 minutes on the first day, DLM will start at midnight of the day following installation to tweak the line�s profile based on how the line is performing in real time.

What Openreach actually says:-

Dynamic Line Management (DLM) is employed in GEA-FTTC. DLM constantly manages lines to maintain a target link quality (speed and stability). It does this for as long as the product exists.
At provision, the line is put on �wide open� VDSL2 line profiles allowing the upstream and downstream line speeds to run at the upper limit of the product option selected.
On the first day of operation, DLM will intervene if severe instability is detected. Otherwise, DLM will wait until the day after provision before deciding if it must intervene, provided that the line has been trained up for at least 15 minutes during the preceding day.

Following on from that, intervention seems to be defined as applying banding.

If DLM intervenes it will set a profile with a maximum rate and a minimum rate, where the minimum rate is set at approximately half of the maximum rate. The purpose of the minimum rate is to ensure that the line does not train at a rate which is significantly below the level the line should be able to achieve. If this happened, then the line is likely to remain at a very low rate until a re-train is forced by the user by powering off the modem.

As opposed to the normal "constantly manages" from the instant of connection.

I think Openreach do actually say what Andy posted, but elsewhere, but thank you both for the "fuller" technical paragraphs which, not only did I not want to have to go and dig out at the time, but I had just intended to give a brief simple explanation, broadly in layman type terms.
What also should be mentioned though is Interleaving, which DLM can vary, usually increasing quickly but decreasing much more slowly as/when conditions require it.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

But you were on the brink of signing up to them Max . Until you realised you needed the Anytime calls, though maybe you didn't at 1p per minute.

We aren't all as good as you at screwing Plusnet to the wall . If I'd stayed with them I would have been paying £33.99, as I wouldn't want to be on a two-year minimum term. Prof is on a monthly contract for both his phone and FTTC!

I'm on monthly for the phone at £14, and will be on six months for my FTTC.

Currently on 80/20 unlimited with PN.

Ive been offered 80/20 for £31.99 month inc line rental.

Its the 24 month contract that has prevented me from agreeing!

But to be fair I've had no issues in the past 18 months except a failed VDSL modem that BT changed for free no hassle.

Decisions decisions!!

Edited by Philce (Wed 19-Aug-15 15:18:44)

?
There isn't an 80/10.

Erm source?

Mine is from their FTTC DLM product description dated July 2015.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

?
There isn't an 80/10.

You are quite correct! Typo corrected.
It is 80/20

In reply to a post by Philce:

Currently on 80/20 unlimited with PN.

Ive been offered 80/20 for £31.99 month inc line rental.

Its the 24 month contract that has prevented me from agreeing!

But to be fair I've had no issues in the past 18 months except a failed VDSL modem that BT changed for free no hassle.

Decisions decisions!!

phone them back ask them to match SSE £24.50 for 80/20 inc line rental for 2 years rather than £31.99 per month.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

Erm source?

Mine is from their FTTC DLM product description dated July 2015.

Very well, but where's the link, or did you make it up?

If the OP migrated to the same BT OR GEA product then there would not normally be a reset of DLM , unless a change in the DLM stability policies( if BT use a different one to plusnet ) would trigger an automated DLM reset i don't know, but i would be surprised if it did,

As far as i'm aware only changes in product automatically trigger a reset of DLM

so 40/10 regraded to 80/20 or vices versa or migration between them= dlm reset

But where it's a same product migration between BTW based providers there isn't even a loss of sync , not sure on BT to sky or tt or other LLU as that does require some work at the head end at the exchange,

But with Sky Ect there is no BTW IP profile

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 19-Aug-15 17:40:21)

SIN 498

changing the profile does do an automatic DLM reset.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

phone them back ask them to match SSE £24.50 for 80/20 inc line rental for 2 years rather than £31.99 per month.

I owe you a pint!

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

changing the profile does do an automatic DLM reset.

Explains what happened to me, I was on Infinity 80/20 and moved to Plusnet 40/10 by mistake (!) and a quick call got that fixed a day later. Was good for me, reset my DLM and my interleave has been a lot lower since.