Plusnet Fibre Upload Speed

I currently have Unlimited BT Infinity 1 Fibre.My usual Download speed is 37Mb and Upload is around 6 to 6.2MB.
I don't do any online gaming.
I am considering a move to Plusnet's Unlimited Fibre Broadband when my BT contract ends. Plusnet's speed estimate for my line is up to 38- 40Mb Download and 1.9Mb Upload.
Am I right to assume that as Plusnet is BT owned and presumably uses the same infrastructure I can expect about the same reliability as my current BT service? Also in practical day to day terms am I likely to notice any significant difference between BT's 6Mb upload speed and Plusnet's 1.9Mb?
Very grateful for any advice from those who have made the BT Fibre to Plusnet move.

In reply to a post by codsallandy:

Am I right to assume that as Plusnet is BT owned and presumably uses the same infrastructure I can expect about the same reliability as my current BT service?

Sorta, although it has little to do with them being owned by BT. For FTTC all ISPs are using the same infrastructure as far as the modem connection is concerned. So regardless of ISP you should get the same connection speed. After that PN's network is effectively different and separate to that of BT's so performance of the two is unconnected.

Also in practical day to day terms am I likely to notice any significant difference between BT's 6Mb upload speed and Plusnet's 1.9Mb?

Probably not but you should be aware that the only reason PN is only 2Mb/s is because that's the limit of the package they are choosing to sell people. Your line can do better and personally I think it's a shame not to avail yourself of that.

Edited by Andrue (Tue 01-Mar-16 19:43:56)

PN upload of limit 2 Meg is pretty stupid for superfast broadband. Ofcom should banned this!

Ofcom should banned this!

Not OFCOM business but rather the end users/customers who are free to go with whichever ISP they wish and they can choose one offering a potentially higher upload rate if that is their need. Based on your statement most TalkTalk FTTC should be banned. OFCOM or ASA should only intervene if FTTC is being mis-sold or the advertising doesn't make it clear what speeds are being offered.

I'm one of those happy folk who's on the older PN 40/20 package.My line actually syncs at 80/20 but PN throttle download to 40. This package didn't make business sense for PN so it was withdrawn for new customers. PN were paying Openreach for 80/20 but selling at a 40 price.

If you upload a lot of big files to dropboax etc then you'll notice the speed drop. Otherwise it won't matter. By big I mean 100MB+ so a few photos don't matter but if you're sending a lot of big RAW or video files then you'll notice.

I agree with others who say that 40/2 is a pretty daft arrangement but it's the current business model for low cost fibre. In a year's time who knows what the entry level fibre offering will be. Possibly 80/20 will be basic and there will be something much faster for those who pay more.

In reply to a post by ppppenguin99:

I'm one of those happy folk who's on the older PN 40/20 package.

Me too and I get a fairly consistent 36-37Mbps download. I also get a consistent upload speed but always around 6Mbps - I manage fairly well with that but I have wondered from time to time why I don't get closer to what it should be. I certainly won't make any changes to my contract that would mean me dropping to 2Mbps so it might mean moving when my contract finishes as I'm on a retention deal and the discount presumably will end.

In reply to a post by ppppenguin99:

I agree with others who say that 40/2 is a pretty daft arrangement but it's the current business model for low cost fibre. In a year's time who knows what the entry level fibre offering will be. Possibly 80/20 will be basic and there will be something much faster for those who pay more.

I'm on 80/20 and I get 50 / 9 and I really USE my 9 meg upload. I cannot understand why the 40/10 wholesale option isn't used by PN and TT and instead they've gone for the 40/2 - missing the point where high speed internet means that people do actually like sharing pictures and video.

Depends on what people need!

Personally I'm quite happy with 2Mbps upload speed as don't upload much.

No point in paying more for something one doesn't need, or use, just to boast about higher speeds

Not everyone wants to share large amounts of information so why pay for the privilege?

If you transport large items around the country you buy a big vehicle, if you're on your own and don't carry passengers then a very small economical car is suitable (if that's what you want).

It's horses for courses and everyone needs to work out how they use the internet. Large downloads AND uploads or just downloads.

I personally have a mean download speed of 14mbps and upload of 0.9mbps. More than enough for my occasional picture upload.

A big thank you to Andrue and all those who have shone some light on the 2Mb upload limit. I am retired and am trying to find an acceptable level of performance and reliability at a price I can afford.It sounds from what everyone has said that while in principle it would be nice to use my lines full capabilities the reality is that I'm not going to notice much difference for general web surfing and emailing and I'll have a few pounds a month to spend on other things!
Thanks everyone.

Codsall near Albrighton?

Yes Codsall near Albrighton.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I cannot understand why the 40/10 wholesale option isn't used by PN and TT and instead they've gone for the 40/2 - missing the point where high speed internet means that people do actually like sharing pictures and video.

Its horses for courses. PlusNet & TT don't force people onto their 40/2 service, its all about giving people choice ie not everybody wants/needs 10mb upload. Its a bit like saying why doesn't everybody shop at Waitrose instead of Tesco, Aldi, Lidl etc LOL

Lived in A, 1955-63. (Teenager).

Trouble is PlusNet only offer 40/2 or 80/20 - they don't offer 40/10.

Trouble is PlusNet only offer 40/2 or 80/20 - they don't offer 40/10.

Agreed and that's how Plusnet have chosen to go however Plusnet are just one of very many ISPs and users are free to choose their ISP in much the same way as ISPs can choose their products.

In reply to a post by nadger:

Depends on what people need!
Personally I'm quite happy with 2Mbps upload speed as don't upload much.
No point in paying more for something one doesn't need, or use, just to boast about higher speeds

I'm not blaming PN its more why does openreach offer such a slow ratio on such new hardware. I gather its not much of a saving on the GEA rental?

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I'm not blaming PN its more why does openreach offer such a slow ratio on such new hardware. I gather its not much of a saving on the GEA rental?

Presumably because there is a demand for those products from ISPs such as Plusnet. If there was no demand for a given product, Openreach would drop it.

In reply to a post by MCM:

Trouble is PlusNet only offer 40/2 or 80/20 - they don't offer 40/10.

Agreed and that's how Plusnet have chosen to go however Plusnet are just one of very many ISPs and users are free to choose their ISP in much the same way as ISPs can choose their products.

I was countering this comment:

PlusNet & TT don't force people onto their 40/2 service, its all about giving people choice ie not everybody wants/needs 10mb upload

PlusNet force either 40/2 or 80/20. Other ISPs "force" either 40/10 or 80/20 - some don't actually offer 80/20 at all. The choice is to use the ISP or not, relatively few ISPs both to offer a choice of all 3 as there isn't enough differentiation in the cost model.

Isn't one ISP supposed to be offering the new 55/10 soon?

In reply to a post by ian72:

Trouble is PlusNet only offer 40/2 or 80/20 - they don't offer 40/10.

Exactly, that's the point i was trying to make to jchamier. If you need more than 2mb upload than then go for the 80/20 service on PN or TT...simples. He seemed to imply that customers had no choice and couldn't get any package with higher than 2mb upload speeds with TT or PN. Also at least many ISPs give you a choice of (up to) 40/x or 80/20 meg services on FTTC...spare a thought for those on ADSL2+ services (BT or LLU) who might get only 0.5 meg yet pay the same as someone who gets 20 meg+.

Plusnet system won't let you order 80/20 if the forecast speed is less than 40Mb/s although the reps on the Plusnet Forums can sometimes sort it

Plus, 80/20 costs more even if they let you have it. On both PN and TT. To some people that matters.

How strange. I'd have thought if you were near the 40mb limit you'd be getting at least 17mb for upload. I'm on the 80/20 service with PN but tend to get nearer 65mb than the '70's on download. But the upload, which I do need and use, is consistently well over 18mb and frequently I see 19mb/s pop up while doing the TBB speed test.

Have you done any BT tests?

Not so - my stats
Connection speed (kbps): 45796 9028

Likewise. I get just over 50 download in wet weather and 8 to 9.5 upload. My line was tested by various BT Sfi about a year before I went to fttc.

This is why I am not moving to PN when I move house. The new address is capable of 35/8 on FTTC but the 40/2 tariff does not appeal to me and it does not make sense to pay extra for the 80/20 package on that line just to get the higher upload.

In reply to a post by Yves:

This is why I am not moving to PN when I move house. The new address is capable of 35/8 on FTTC but the 40/2 tariff does not appeal to me and it does not make sense to pay extra for the 80/20 package on that line just to get the higher upload.

PN wouldn't let you sign up for 80/20 anyway. That's the other part of why their choice to drop 40/10 seems weird. They won't put anyone on 80/20 unless their estimate shows them to be clearly capable of download speeds over 40Mb/s.

Now I can understand why they won't sell 80/20 to those who can't get at least 40 because customers being the gits they are they'd complain later on saying they should only be a on 40Mb/s download package. But it means that for a lot of people PN simply will only offer up to 2Mb/s upload.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Isn't one ISP supposed to be offering the new 55/10 soon?

That would make sense for PN - it would fill a gap in their portfolio.

In reply to a post by 69bertie:

Have you done any BT tests?

Just done a test on BTW:-

"Download speed achieved during the test was - 35.27 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 27.07 Mbps-38.67 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 38.67 Mbps
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 5.93Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps"
I---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think someone has said in another post that there is no bottom guaranteed limit. This is also made clear in the wording of the test results, no mention of "acceptable range" for upload Presumably as long as your line will support a few bytes every half hour or so it's alright.

In reply to a post by ppppenguin99:

I'm one of those happy folk who's on the older PN 40/20 package.My line actually syncs at 80/20 but PN throttle download to 40. This package didn't make business sense for PN so it was withdrawn for new customers. PN were paying Openreach for 80/20 but selling at a 40 price.

PN could have offered the 40/10 option too - they've chosen to make it 40/2 from 40/20 (which as you say is the 80/20 service throttled back).

Will then offer the 55/10 service or maybe offer it as 40/10 perhaps... or 30/5 or some other random amount.

Edited by therioman (Sat 12-Mar-16 17:44:39)

Providing 55/10 and throttling it to 40/10 would make even less sense than 80/20 slugged to 40/20.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Providing 55/10 and throttling it to 40/10 would make even less sense than 80/20 slugged to 40/20.

Throttling the 80 to 40 makes a lot of sense. I understand entirely why.

Offering the 20 upload when the download was capped as it was made very little sense except perhaps from a marketing angle, although I am not convinced a typical PN target customer would know, understand or realise the difference (I realise there are those who do here, but that won't be representative of the customer base as a whole). Upload is not a major cause of issues & cost at a network/bandwidth level for providers like download is.

It would make sense to offer 55/10 - perhaps capped back to 40/10 or maybe /5. It doesn't cost very much more at all, it does add a marketing benefit and I can see how it would work out for them.

In reply to a post by therioman:

It would make sense to offer 55/10 - perhaps capped back to 40/10

If Plusnet were to offer customers 40/10 they would surely just buy 40/10 from Openreach and not buy 55/10 and cap at 40/10, unless Plusnet are keen on throwing money away.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by therioman:

It would make sense to offer 55/10 - perhaps capped back to 40/10

If Plusnet were to offer customers 40/10 they would surely just buy 40/10 from Openreach and not buy 55/10 and cap at 40/10, unless Plusnet are keen on throwing money away.

A fair and valid point! It's been a long week!

In reply to a post by therioman:

It would make sense to offer 55/10 - perhaps capped back to 40/10 or maybe /5.

Sorry to blow another of your ideas but I don't think it's even possible for the upstream to be throttled to a lower speed (certainly not with whatever kit Plusnet use).

Don't they just use ip profiles?

Not on upstream. The IP Profile is only of use to the sending party, to prevent them feeding too quickly to the DSLAM/MSAN. On FTTC it is simply set to the maximum for the product, but as the Openreach DLM won't negotiate a higher sync than the ordered product it has no effect.

In reply to a post by Al1264:

In reply to a post by therioman:

It would make sense to offer 55/10 - perhaps capped back to 40/10 or maybe /5.

Sorry to blow another of your ideas but I don't think it's even possible for the upstream to be throttled to a lower speed (certainly not with whatever kit Plusnet use).

Why? They can throttle the downstream, so I imagine they can by various means do the same with the upstream. The router still syncs at whatever the FTTC side does, as it does on the older restricted package.

I guess they might have some technology restriction, but I'm not sure that they do, when it clearly can restrict in the other direction.

Throttle the upstream at the Plusnet end and you'll simply get a huge number of dropped packets. Probably causing DLM to intervene and band the line at a lower speed.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Throttle the upstream at the Plusnet end and you'll simply get a huge number of dropped packets. Probably causing DLM to intervene and band the line at a lower speed.

Under Plusnet's old 40/20 package, was downstream synched at 40 meg down or was throughput throttled to 40 meg?

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

Under Plusnet's old 40/20 package, was downstream synched at 40 meg down or was throughput throttled to 40 meg?

Throttled, using Plusnet's Current Line Speed. Sync could be up to the full 80 meg.

Yes, see Kevin's reply.

Thanks, makes sense.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Throttle the upstream at the Plusnet end and you'll simply get a huge number of dropped packets. Probably causing DLM to intervene and band the line at a lower speed.

Absolute twaddle.

DLM doesn't see Layer 3 or above, and would have no idea what's happening.

Sorry Roberto.

Packet loss caused by network conditions, including shaping techniques has no affect on DLM. DLM only cares about error's on the DSL layer itself.

I live and learn. There would still be a lot of dropped packets which would need retransmission.