Credit card surcharges

It is my understanding that these are to be banned across-the-board from Saturday.

If this is true, then I assume Plusnet is dropping the £1.50 charge. Can anybody confirm?

I'd like to return to paying by cc. Though the rewards are small, I do get loyalty points on it, which I don't from using my debit card, so though it's not a Tesco card, every little helps, as they say. I tend to put everything possible on it, and then clear it in full each month.

They might do what JustEat have done and rather than charge 50p per card transaction they now just charge everyone 50p as a "service charge".

The article says "Campaigners welcomed the move, saying it was great news for consumers".

I'd disagree with this, the prices will most likely have to increase for everyone to cover the cost. The real winners here are the credit card companies who can bump up the processing fees and offer bigger loyalty rewards to card holders.

Most places don't charge for card transactions anyway - shops for example don't these days tend to charge extra to pay by card. This is essentially normalising the industry - there are costs to processing cash as well in people time for managing the cash so in a way taking credit card payments offsets the staff costs of managing the cash. I don't know what the "average" cost of a cash transaction for shops is compared to a credit card transaction but it may be that cards are ultimately cheaper.

The cost of cash handing has probably increased in recent years. More bank branches have closed and those that are still open won't take money in unless you have an account with them. Cards (and cashback) will reduce the costs of cash handling.

Some could simply stop taking credit cards. That's what HMRC are doing for payments.

Shops are one thing. As for ISPs and other utilities with recurring monthly payments, each of these monthly credit card transactions incurs them a processing fee, whereas Direct Debit does not. Under previous legislation they were allowed to pass on the processing fees they incurred, but no more than that. I think it's fair that Direct Debit users were "rewarded" for using a payment method that doesn't cost the ISP/utility company extra, but now they will likely have to stump up the bill for the credit card companies share of the pie.

I agree with you. It clearly costs money to provide customers with credit. I am now being denied the opportunity of paying less by making prompt payment. It also looks like I will not get such a good deal when I shop around for the best energy utility price.

If they were going to introduce a "service charge" for everyone, as soon as Saturday, I'd expect to have heard about it by now.

Not addressed to you, specifically, Ian, but I wasn't canvassing opinions about the rights or wrongs of it. Just looking for confirmation of whether what seems to be the case actually is - specifically wrt Plusnet. £1.50 was always excessive anyway, whether or not you agree with it in principle.

In reply to a post by TLM:

It is my understanding that these are to be banned across-the-board from Saturday.

If this is true, then I assume Plusnet is dropping the £1.50 charge. Can anybody confirm?

Isn't that a charge for not using Direct Debit rather than a charge for using a credit card? That's pretty commonplace amongst utilities (and £1.50 is on the low side) and I'm unclear as to whether it will still be allowed.

How does a charge for NOT using DD differ from a charge for using a card - which I understand to have been banned? How else could one pay? Unless you're suggesting that sticking a cheque in the post would still be free, but I somehow doubt there's provision for customers wishing to do that.

I did not think anyone charged these days for using Credit cards. I know my local coffee bar will not take any card unless a certain amount is spent, but even our local shop do not charge extra for cards these days.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I did not think anyone charged these days for using Credit cards

Plenty still do, especially online. My local dentist charges 3% and claims they are exempt from the new rule. I'm not convinced.

In reply to a post by TLM:

How does a charge for NOT using DD differ from a charge for using a card - which I understand to have been banned? How else could one pay? Unless you're suggesting that sticking a cheque in the post would still be free, but I somehow doubt there's provision for customers wishing to do that.

The "cheque in the post" would be subject to the charge as it is not a direct debit payment. When companies introduced such charges, they were for all non-DD payments.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I did not think anyone charged these days for using Credit cards. I know my local coffee bar will not take any card unless a certain amount is spent, but even our local shop do not charge extra for cards these days.

I know holiday companies often charge for using a credit card. Also, buying cars in my experience they tend to only allow a small deposit on a credit card and not larger amounts.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Also, buying cars in my experience they tend to only allow a small deposit on a credit card and not larger amounts.

It can depend.

When I bought my new car they took a deposit of £2,000 on my credit card, then a further £5,700 when I collected it eight days later. No blinking at all by the sales or finance staff at the dealer's. Though they did get some sizable bank transfers in-between and the part-exchange vehicle on the day.

Just Eat have always charged 50p for debit and credit card transactions. They are now going to charge everyone a 50p service charge

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42621989

Mark

A predictable consequence of ill-thought-out EU legislation.

Edited by Oliver341 (Wed 10-Jan-18 19:04:10)

DVLA (tax renewal) charge for CC but not for DC.

My garage refused deposit (£2k) via credit card, only debit card. They then took balance (nearly another £15k) via the same debit card 10 days later.

Debit cards don't carry the same processing fees as credit cards. Debit cards are usually a fixed fee (50p per transaction for example), credit cards are usually a percentage of the total.

In reply to a post by ian72:

I know holiday companies often charge for using a credit card. Also, buying cars in my experience they tend to only allow a small deposit on a credit card and not larger amounts.

When I brought mine last year they took the 3K deposit on Credit Card and I believe they had limit of 5K - I paid balance on debit card, however they said they were stopping taking large amounts on debit cards due to the charges were changing and it would be quite expensive on price of the car.

Edited by Kenneth (Thu 11-Jan-18 18:57:10)

In reply to a post by Kenneth:

...I paid balance on debit card, however they said they were stopping taking large amounts on debit cards due to the charges were changing and it would be quite expensive on price of the car.

Interesting, 12 months ago we made a couple of large payments using our debit card, both in excess of £40k. The organisation receiving the money didn't bat an eyelid.

A debit card payment costs very little: often about 20p. A credit card payment often costs between 1.5% and 2.5% (or more, if the retailer has a bad deal). So a £5000 credit card payment could cost them £125.00

That was my understanding, which makes the car dealer in the post I replied to perhaps being economical with the truth

Payment was last May, but Visa changed the way they charge for debit cards sometime last year to a percentage Link - though if these fees are anything to go by it sounds like a premium car sales brand penny pinching to me

Well from today I wonder what they are going to do instead of the surcharge they can no longer legally do?

Manual credits to the account of anyone who complains, every month for the next three years while they trial an accounting system change.

Click this.

In reply to a post by kasg:

Plenty still do, especially online. My local dentist charges 3% and claims they are exempt from the new rule. I'm not convinced.

I don't have a credit card anyway and tend to use cash most of the time anyway.
I am more worried about this open banking idea that some nit have decided to bring in. i thought contactless cards was bad, this open banking idea is worse.

Plenty of people spend everything on credit, myself included. The benefits of using credit card make it a no-brainer, given the free air miles, free flights, points etc that can be had.

I've spent on AMEX for the past 2 years racking up 1 companion flight ticket, a £200 amazon gift card, a free bose speaker, priority boarding on flights, free airport lounge access (free food and alcohol before flights). It's a game of swapping and changing cards, but debit is only used if they refuse creditcard, my spotify, amazon, netflix and some others even hit my CC. I also manually go into EE and pay via Credit Card before the direct debit is taken.

I consolidate all spending into YNAB an online tool & repay in full.

RE Open Banking I believe you can opt in / out.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sat 13-Jan-18 21:52:33)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Plenty of people spend everything on credit, myself included. The benefits of using credit card make it a no-brainer, given the free air miles, free flights, points etc that can be had.

Not to mention the Section 75 protection. Using cash for everything is pretty dangerous these days.

My card provider pay me for using it. I always pay off card in full every month so as you say I get the protection and they pay me 0.5% back on all purchases. Add to this that the money stays in my bank account longer so I also earn interest on that. Used correctly credit cards can be a decent little money saver and definitely something I will continue doing all the time it pays me to do it.

Same here on every count. It's free money and free protection.

In reply to a post by kasg:

Same here on every count. It's free money and free protection.

The only argument I can see against was posted on another thread over the weekend.

Essentially by taking advantage of the offers and paying nothing to the credit card company my use of cards is potentially being subsidised by the more vulnerable members of society who are paying the high interest rates and penalties - those potentially that are in the least capable position to afford it.

That is a possible moral argument against using them - but the same argument could be used around many things, for example I seek the cheapest gas/electric rate I can but I know that people who are potentially vulnerable may be being gouged on pre-payment meters.

People with poor credit will also get higher interest rates - unfortunately it is the way the industry works in that the people with least money tend to end up paying more for many things because they are higher risk for maintaining payments.

I will be able to in the next week or so as I just changed the direct debit details with not enough time before my billing date (whoops!)

they cant do that as previous legislation forbid profits been made on fees, which has killed these cashback bonus schemes.

This is one of those legislation's that will backfire, consumers will pay somehow, most likely via across the board rises.

One company has risen the cost of their service to the credit card price and started offering discounts to whose who dont pay by credit card. Same thing but done in a legal way.

In reply to a post by ian72:

In reply to a post by kasg:

Same here on every count. It's free money and free protection.

The only argument I can see against was posted on another thread over the weekend.

Essentially by taking advantage of the offers and paying nothing to the credit card company my use of cards is potentially being subsidised by the more vulnerable members of society who are paying the high interest rates and penalties - those potentially that are in the least capable position to afford it.

That is a possible moral argument against using them - but the same argument could be used around many things, for example I seek the cheapest gas/electric rate I can but I know that people who are potentially vulnerable may be being gouged on pre-payment meters.

People with poor credit will also get higher interest rates - unfortunately it is the way the industry works in that the people with least money tend to end up paying more for many things because they are higher risk for maintaining payments.

Such is life.

People on retention deals on an isp may not even be profitable but subsidised by loyal customers.
People who dont switch between utilities at end of every contract are probably subsidising those who do.
Credit cards are no different in that respect, get a 0% card, and even get cashback bonus on top of that, then someone somewhere is subsidising your service, but it is what it is.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

they cant do that as previous legislation forbid profits been made on fees, which has killed these cashback bonus schemes.

It's not killed mine, I still get 0.5% (although I used to get 1% on one card).

Final update
Just paid my bill via cash card (direct debit hasn't gone through) and I can confirm that there was no surcharge