Billing

Hi folks,

I�m looking at Plusnet as a viable alternative to BT.

With Bt, I pay online by debit card each month after each bill arrives. This does cost a little extra each month but I prefer it to Direct Debit as I don�t like DD for variable amounts.

Will Plusnet let me do this or do I have to pay by DD each month?

Thanks

Adam

There is a £1.50 surcharge per transaction for paying by debit/credit card. The whole point of Direct Debits is that they are variable and you get notified of the amount before the payment is taken. Life's too short to be faffing around with manual payments for everything.

Thankyou Kasg,

Unfortunately I have been double charged a couple of times and only found out when my bank told me I had gone overdrawn.

Regards,

Adam

I can't remember the last time that happened to me but even if it did you would be fully protected against any costs incurred.

Are you sure? I don't believe that is true any longer. I used to pay a £1 premium, I think it was, for paying by card, so I switched to direct debit.

BUT, in the past year or so, maybe longer, the law was changed, outlawing such penalties for paying by card, so I reverted to paying how I always wanted and used to - by credit card.

I believe I checked at the time with PN that there was no longer a surcharge, so I'd be very surprised and displeased to find I've been incurring one. I don't see it on the bill anywhere.

I believe the OP can do it exactly the way he proposes.

You could well be right, the information I saw was from 2017. I must admit I didn't think the change in the law applied to things like that, this page suggests you can offer a discount for paying by Direct Debit, which amounts to the same thing:
https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/p...

Whilst it may "amount to the same thing", Plusnet was applying an explicit surcharge for card payments, NOT offering money off your phone calls or broadband if you agree to direct debit. I had to Google the date of the law change - it was January.

I wouldn't expect PN to exactly advertise that you can now pay how you like without being surcharged. They probably still push DD as the default, and hope not too many rail against it.

Edit: I should probably add, for the benefit of the original poster, that I'm NOT sure it's possible to manually pay every month.

My payments are still automatic - they're just charged to my credit card instead of DD. So in theory, just as open to the OP's worry about being mischarged/charged twice. I've never had it happen, though, and credit cards have protection against unauthorised charges, just as direct debit has.

Edited by TLM (Sat 15-Sep-18 19:58:08)

With Direct Debits you can just call your bank and ask them to get the Direct Debit back. I have done this.

Here are the rules for DD:
https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/p...

That is an absolute guarantee. I too have asked my bank to reverse an incorrect DD. They did it immediately and without question.

There is no reason at all to be wary of DDs unless your financial management is so poor that you've no idea what transactions are happening on your account.

In reply to a post by TLM:

My payments are still automatic - they're just charged to my credit card instead of DD. So in theory, just as open to the OP's worry about being mischarged/charged twice. I've never had it happen, though, and credit cards have protection against unauthorised charges, just as direct debit has.

Automatic payment by credit card may not be as safe as direct debits.

The Financial Conduct Authority says ....

"Whilst you might have heard of direct debits and standing orders, continuous payment authorities are slightly different. They do not offer the same guarantee as direct debits and give the company taking the payment more flexibility about when and how much it takes from your account."

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/news-stories/continuous-...

That's fine Michael, but some banks are just as difficult to contact as Plusnet's accounts team! Anyway, why should customers have to waste their (and their banks') time sorting out the mess created by Plusnet's new billing system? It's a shame because my PN service is otherwise excellent.

Thankyou all for your comments.

Regards,

Adam

Adam, if you are worried about overcharging -- and many people are often close to overdraft limit -- maybe you should take a look at Plusnet's user forum, and the 16 pages of angry posts since the new billing system was launched about three weeks ago clicky
As I said I'm very happy with PN BB and it's nice to talk with British advisers, when you can get hold of one! In fairness most are tied up with the new system which isn't their fault, must be very frustrating for them. They will sort it out eventually but customers are taking a lot of hassle.

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

They will sort it out eventually but customers are taking a lot of hassle.

Some time never.

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

They will sort it out eventually but customers are taking a lot of hassle.

That is what Plusnet have been saying year after year, literally for several years. Anyone remember how the additional Customer Service centre (in Leeds?) was going to solve the never being able to get through on the phone problem?

I've still got a ticket open regarding fouled up referrals. At least they know they've fouled up/ Just got this email about billing. Their billing systems are indeed FUBAR

=========================================================================

Username: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hello xxxxxxxxx

We need to let you know that your October bill has been delayed.

We just wanted to drop you an email to reassure you that you won't be charged any more or less money, and your service won't be affected in any way. You'll get your usual email notifications when your bill's ready, and payment will be taken via your current method.

We hope this doesn't cause any problems, but please get in touch if you need to. Call us on 0800 587 2677.

Best wishes,
The Plusnet Team

I've certainly had my troubles with Plusnet, Bob, as you remember from your much appreciated assistance a few years ago. All I'm asking is that we show a little understanding towards the customer advisers who had nothing to do with PN's programming or management decisions yet must take the flak from justifiably angry customers.

I have spoken to several advisers over the past couple of months regarding my bills which have been screwed up. Waiting times have varied from 30 seconds to 30+ minutes, after which I gave up. Some advisers have been transferred from the tech staff to help on the billing side; one was quite upset by hostile customers let alone dealing with genuine hardship cases who were about to be cut off for non-payment. Some would like to change jobs but they too have their rent/groceries to pay. I have found all the advisers apologetic and helpful even if it's only to inform me that my bill overpayments have been refunded but my monthly invoice will be delayed because of glitches in the system.

The responsibility lies much higher up the line but these well-paid folk are keeping their heads down. What I would really like to know is how many customers are affected by this billings fiasco; a customer dissatisfaction rate of only 0.1% would delight most retail businesses, yet with 1.3+ million PN subscribers this equates to at least 1,300 unhappy clients. In many years of self-employment I learned that you can't please everyone and most PN customers seem satisfied with the service itself, as I am.

Posting on this forum or any other seems to be a waste of time. Only two years ago Ofcom fined PN £880,000 for serious failures in customer billing. The Ofcom statement can be viewed here. Aggrieved customers might think about complaining direct to Ofcom. Another fine, this time big enough to impact on the profit line, is the only way to move PN management.

I don't recall my ever criticising the telephone help staff, in the reasonably long time I was with Plusnet . Your post implies I was doing.

As you say, it is entirely the senior management who are to blame. But there is no way I would ever go back to Plusnet.

Not only the ongoing cock-ups, but also AIUI they still can't run IPv6 properly - I was on the trial for a while and with my much greater understanding of it since leaving the system itself was a complete dog's breakfast. Not a proper implementation of IPv6.

I am sorry if I implied you criticised PN customer staff, Bob, as this was certainly not my intention. In recent months I have posted elsewhere on this forum and also on the PN forum asking for some consideration of their predicament. PN fulfils all the broadband needs of simple non-tech folk like myself and our community group, I have neither understanding nor need of IPV6, all we want is reliable supply at reasonable price and PN supplies these requirements.

What we cannot understand is why their billing system appears to be in such a shambles. Our other utility suppliers, eg electricity, bill our metered supplies regularly and efficiently, why should our BB be any different?

I shall not post again as it's a waste of time. Those who feel aggrieved, and some have been double-charged to the extent they have been forced into overdraft, should complain to Ofcom with accurate accounts of what has happened. Two years on from their hefty fine, PN management seems to need another lesson, maybe this time it will be £1 million.
Regards, Mike

Correction:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

but also AIUI they still can't run IPv6 properly at all - I was on the trial for a while and with my much greater understanding of it since leaving the system itself was a complete dog's breakfast. Not a proper implementation of IPv6.

The trial was totally closed when they replaced the gateways and IPv6 is now not available.

Edited by jelv (Sat 20-Oct-18 17:57:58)

" All I'm asking is that we show a little understanding towards the customer advisers who had nothing to do with PN's programming or management decisions yet must take the flak from justifiably angry customers."

Unfortunately the customers can't vent their anger on the people responsible so the customer adviser is the person that takes the flak. A lot of CS/CA either haven't got a clue how to placate users or are given a script that they are not allowed to vary from. This can cause more frustration and resentment.

Having been on both sides of the fence I can sympathise with both parties.

PN need to sort out their billing issues quickly and apologise publicly.

I've now got my October bill and, miracle of miracles, it may be correct!

The September bill was too high, October bill too low but if I average them, that average is the same as the August bill. This may well have been correct, though it's hard to work out exactly what my referrals should be.

If it all now stabilises I'll be happy. Fingers crossed that PN have finally sorted out their billing system.

Edited by ppppenguin99 (Sat 27-Oct-18 09:45:23)

In reply to a post by ppppenguin99:

Fingers crossed that PN have finally sorted out their billing system.

Indeed! It was broke when I worked there in 2005.. nothing's changed until now it seems

Me too. My October bill is a fortnight late but the invoice does reflect the overcharge applied in September and the discount not applied this month. I'll believe it when I check PN debit to my bank account, and even more hopefully see my December bill. If this is right maybe I'll be OK for the next couple of years ...

Living in hope, Mike

In reply to a post by ppppenguin99:

Fingers crossed that PN have finally sorted out their billing system.

No, they haven't. My bill was very late in October and again this November (it now 4 days late and no bill yet)

Have a look at the PN Forum...

Several posts about bills and the new billing system.

Yep terrible. Can't believe it. I will be leaving PN soon not because of broadband discount and referral scheme discount but because of their poor unfit for purpose billing system since the new billing system take over lately. Horrible and a nightmare on plus.elm.net

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Horrible and a nightmare on plus.elm.net

What's plus.elm.net?

MrSaffron has just had three or four more minutes of fame on BBC Radio 4 at 12:50'ish.

The Plusnet billing fiasco has now made it to mainstream!

When the new billing system was introduced, Plusnet stopped charging me for my email only service, so It was not all bad.

I most liked the bit about when I heard the billing system was changing and thus was expecting there to be problems.

You were very diplomatic. You had to think for a moment though, to stop yourself telling it like it is .

Just reading through Plusnet Billing woes since the topic got bumped due to AF on Radio 4, I agree with ppppenguin99 regarding direct debits.

I've got a refund on DDs a few times. Once, my bank suggested I try and "sort it out with the company first" but they backed off when I quoted the DD guarantee and threatened to complain about that wrong advice.

If the company takes too much the bank gives you a full and immediate refund. I just emailed the incorrect bills to the bank as evidence. The whole payment gets refunded, not just the overcharge. Tends to concentrate minds.

Oh, and cancelling a DD - just notify the bank, the DD guarantee requests you notify the company but this is not a requirement. However, when leaving a company, leave the DD in place until they give you any refund due.

ehteam is 100% correct on the DD guarantee and refunds.Except possibly for his very last sentence.

AFAIK a refund can still go into your account even after a DD has been cancelled but I've never put it to the test. I reckon it's not worth finding out the hard way.

Anybody can transfer money into any account, (within the UK at least). All you need is the name on the account, the bank sort code, and the account number.

If a firm like Plusnet can only do it through the direct debit system, that is their own accounts system at fault again. Though many ISPs use the same method for refunds.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Anybody can transfer money into any account, (within the UK at least). All you need is the name on the account, the bank sort code, and the account number.

As Clarkson found when he published his sort code and account number in the newspaper - anyone can TAKE from an account as well.

PAYM (pay by mobile number) is safer if you need to publish as you can only deposit.

As Clarkson found when he published his sort code and account number in the newspaper - anyone can TAKE from an account as well.

Via a direct debit they can (think they need your name and address as well). But DD has protection and so if they do take money fraudulently then your bank would pay it back so no permanent loss.

Sort code and account number are pretty much public information as they are printed on every cheque.

Edited by ian72 (Tue 11-Dec-18 08:14:06)

Yes, DD is more secure.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Sort code and account number are pretty much public information as they are printed on every cheque.

Agreed, but people don't think of the ability to extract money using these details. Also cheque usage has dropped a significant amount since the end of guarantee cards.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Yes, DD is more secure.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Sort code and account number are pretty much public information as they are printed on every cheque.

Agreed, but people don't think of the ability to extract money using these details.

LOL

Your previous post contradicts that assertion .

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Anybody can transfer money into any account, (within the UK at least). All you need is the name on the account, the bank sort code, and the account number.

As Clarkson found when he published his sort code and account number in the newspaper - anyone can TAKE from an account as well.

PAYM (pay by mobile number) is safer if you need to publish as you can only deposit.

Are you sure? The d/d was to a charity which is one of the organisations that does not need a signature to set one up. Not to an individual.

The person doing it clearly also knew how to set up a d/d for such organisations.

What is ridiculous is that what appears to be a criminal act cannot be investigated. From all three links:-

The bank cannot find out who did this because of the Data Protection Act and they cannot stop it from happening again.

Re your second point, is that true? What about the television adverts for charities that say �Text nnnnnn to donate £x�, either once-off or monthly.

That will charge your mobile account. So anyone knowing your number could presumably pull off the same trick?

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 11-Dec-18 13:03:17)

What about the television adverts for chastise that say �Text nnnnnn to donate £x�, either once-off or monthly.

That will charge your mobile account. So anyone knowing your number could presumably pull off the same trick?

You need the phone though to be able to send the text from it. Unless it is done purely on CLI and someone spoofs the number - but I don't know if it uses CLI for identity or if it uses something else like the IMEI.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Your previous post contradicts that assertion .

too early