FFTP at last!

I phoned Plusnet a few weeks ago to enquire when they'll be launching FTTP as BT had finally actived it here.
I was told it was due to be released the following week.
I phoned them back a week later and got a good deal on 500mb.
I could have gotten a slightly better deal with EE as I use them for my mobile but it would have meant either waiting until August when my contracts due for renewal or pay Plusnet termination fees.
However, I'm like a kid in a sweet shop and been waiting since using a 28k for full fibre.
I've had a great FTTH service with Plusnet and it's always been faster than it was with BT so sticking with them was a no brainer.
Openreach engineer is booked for the 14th and new modem purchased (never been keen on ISPs routers).
I asked initially as to why they weren't advertising it and was told for the time being it's only being offered to existing customers.

I hope you know the Plusnet's "soft launch" of FTTP does not include any phone service and you will lose your existing phone number. This wouldn't bother me one bit but some people get attached to their long standing number.

I would call this move by Plusnet premature as they have not considered the problems it has caused to customers wishing to upgrade but then being told it can't be done if they want keep their phone number or even just port it to a VOIP supplier.

I'm not fussed about a landline, I never use it and been waiting to get rid of it.

Pretty certain he intended FTTC / copper to the cab, rather than “FTTHome” otherwise it doesn’t make any sense.

I think the isp's are missing a trick her as I think at lot of people will be put off upgrading to fttp if the companies don't include a "landline" as part of the package. Many people do not have a mobile or a good mobile coverage if they do have a mobile and lots of people still like normal phone sitting on the corner table as it always has.

In reply to a post by threelegs:

I think the isp's are missing a trick her as I think at lot of people will be put off upgrading to fttp if the companies don't include a "landline" as part of the package. Many people do not have a mobile or a good mobile coverage if they do have a mobile and lots of people still like normal phone sitting on the corner table as it always has.

And these are often the same people who are least likely to do a market search and change provider so those isps are likely to be alienating a captive customer base. They are also likely to be those who do not make intensive use of their connection. Be interesting to see what sort of customer churn is included in their business cases.

Edited by GonePostal (Thu 09-Jun-22 10:02:00)

The vast majority of folks are not particularly bothered about the lack of a landline. Folks under about the age of 30 haven’t really known what a domestic landline is for the most part, and they won’t miss what they’ve never known.

The proof is in the pudding: landline numbers (in absolute terms) and volumes/minutes have been in a steady but terminal state of decline for near enough two decades. People have shifted by and large to mobile, but also more recently to the plethora of app based messaging and voice.

I don’t deny that there remains a specific need for certain customers to have access to a fixed “landline”, based on circumstantial and locations etc. But it’s not an overwhelming business that ISP are missing out on. The Plusnet FTTP launch (which has taken years) and now eventually ‘soft’ launched - albeit sans voice bears that out.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

The vast majority of folks are not particularly bothered about the lack of a landline. Folks under about the age of 30 haven’t really known what a domestic landline is for the most part, and they won’t miss what they’ve never known.

The proof is in the pudding: landline numbers (in absolute terms) and volumes/minutes have been in a steady but terminal state of decline for near enough two decades. People have shifted by and large to mobile, but also more recently to the plethora of app based messaging and voice.

I don’t deny that there remains a specific need for certain customers to have access to a fixed “landline”, based on circumstantial and locations etc. But it’s not an overwhelming business that ISP are missing out on. The Plusnet FTTP launch (which has taken years) and now eventually ‘soft’ launched - albeit sans voice bears that out.

Agreed that it is literally a dying market. Moving the argument a little, when the time came to change from analogue to digital TV there was direct intervention to help many of those who were struggling with the changeover. The voice changeover will hit those in the equivalent demographic but the assistance is something that seems to be missing this time.

Just be interested (out of nothing more than nosiness) to find out how much the ISPs not offering voice have allowed in their business case for customer loss.

I hadn't really considered the possibility of losing the landline number (which I've had for 42 years) but there are only two people that ever call on it, apart from the inevitable junk/scam calls and they could probably be persuaded to call a mobile number. It is many years since I have used the landline for outgoing calls, so I don't think losing it would be a big deal.

Just be interested (out of nothing more than nosiness) to find out how much the ISPs not offering voice have allowed in their business case for customer loss.

For BT Group getting rid of PSTN will save them hundreds of millions. Considering the upkeep/maintenance for a vastly diminished user base, it’s a burning platform they want to be rid of.

Of the hundred or so AltNets building networks they are fairly evenly split as to whether they include a native voice service in their offering.

So my read of it, it’s incidental to their overall business case.

Thanks for the insight. As I said, only nosiness.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Just be interested (out of nothing more than nosiness) to find out how much the ISPs not offering voice have allowed in their business case for customer loss.

For BT Group getting rid of PSTN will save them hundreds of millions. Considering the upkeep/maintenance for a vastly diminished user base, it’s a burning platform they want to be rid of.

The point was not about getting rid of PSTN - that's happening regardless. But you'll still be able to make phone calls, digitally.

The point was that some providers are forcing existing customers to give up their *landline phone numbers* by not providing a digital voice solution *and* not allowing the number to be ported to someone else's phone service.

I have a landline, but the phone is never connected to it, but I have also got as VoIP, that I have had for a few years and to be honest, I have no plans to get rid of it, there are some people that I prefer not to give my mobile number to, my work for a start.

If i did not have VoIP, the fact that plusnet don't offer a landline for FTTP would put me off.

So you know mine. What are your thoughts ?

I think many people still want want a landline number especially to receive calls.

I agree volumes/minutes have fallen considerably but a lot of that is as providers pricing calls/packages uncompetitively vs mobiles.

One could hope with the move away from the PTSN such prices may come down.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

So you know mine. What are your thoughts ?

I think that a significant minority are still attached to their landline phone numbers - perhaps mainly in the older demographic, but there is a lot of those. And the vast majority of people of all age ranges are non-technical.

I think it's going to cause annoyance if people are told that they'll lose their phone number on (forced) migration to FTTP; but it will be worse if they lose their phone service without realising it in advance, and on top of that find their number can't be recovered. Many people will assume that their phone number will remain as part of the service, because, isn't it obvious that it should?

At very least then, these providers must make it *very* clear in advance that this will happen, and what the available options are.

From the service providers point of view: the big winners here are likely to be BT, because the simplest solution for many in that situation will be "switch to BT". It will be harder for the likes of Sky and Vodafone to get the message across that migrating to *them* will also solve the problem.

Of course, Plusnet doesn't really care about losing customers to BT. That really leaves only Talktalk out of the major providers that don't yet do voice with FTTP, and I believe they have some solution under development. if they get it ready in time, then most of the problem is gone.

Voice has never really been a priority with Talktalk though. Some years ago, I knew someone who worked for Talktalk (actually quite senior in network operations), who moved house within the same area and for whom keeping the phone number was important. His line was with Talktalk, but they were unable to move the number to the new property; they simply didn't have the process in place to allow this. So he was forced to move his line to BT, then move house, and then at the end of the BT contract move it back to Talktalk.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Voice has never really been a priority with Talktalk.

Oh, the irony !

In reply to a post by kasg:

I hadn't really considered the possibility of losing the landline number (which I've had for 42 years) but there are only two people that ever call on it, apart from the inevitable junk/scam calls and they could probably be persuaded to call a mobile number. It is many years since I have used the landline for outgoing calls, so I don't think losing it would be a big deal.

Same with me, I've just signed up with Sipgate Basic, and got a 35 quid Grandstream VoIP phone. I was expecting to take forever to configure and get it all working, but it took less than 10 mins !

So now I have a 'local' VoIP number. Perhaps when FTTP comes for me I might be able to port our POTS number to it, but if not it'll just require a change of phone number card to be sent to the three or four relatives that still call us on the land line.

They are in the same tiny set of people we still send physical Christmas Cards to, so it could all be rather convenient !

In reply to a post by broadbandjockey:

Same with me, I've just signed up with Sipgate Basic, and got a 35 quid Grandstream VoIP phone. I was expecting to take forever to configure and get it all working, but it took less than 10 mins !

So now I have a 'local' VoIP number. Perhaps when FTTP comes for me I might be able to port our POTS number to it, but if not it'll just require a change of phone number card to be sent to the three or four relatives that still call us on the land line.

I too have joined Sipgate Basic, a bit of a no-brainer really, and will port my landline number to it at some point.

Been with sipgate since i first started using VoIP, no problems at all.
i have a Linksys PAP2 and the cordless phone base is connected to that, been like it for years and not a problem, took a bit of configuring as I had no idea what I was doing. Remind me I must top up my payments.

In reply to a post by HaShCaKe:

I'm not fussed about a landline, I never use it and been waiting to get rid of it.

All the talk of people want to keep their landline numbers here seems to miss the point above. Most people couldn't care less about a landline number at all, they never use it and most don't even own a phone, if they can be rid of it and save a few quid in the process they'll go for it. A lot assume they have got to have it to use their broadband etc

The next expensive thing about landlines is the calls. Unless you are going to spend extra money on a calling plan, then you'll not only be paying whatever it is per minute to talk, but you'll also pay a connection charge for every call you make. I think i saw BT were charging 26p, could be wrong on that amount, but why on earth would anyone want to pay that when using a mobile is all included and free anyway? Ignoring PAYG plans.

In reply to a post by TheInstaller:

Most people couldn't care less about a landline number at all

Clearly from the comments over on the Plusnet forum not everyone is happy at losing their landline so a sweeping statement should really be backed up with some form of evidence about what is meant by the use of the word 'most' as otherwise it could be in fact misleading.

but why on earth would anyone want to pay that when using a mobile is all included and free anyway? Ignoring PAYG plans.

Whether it’s PAYG or monthly rolling contract, you are still paying the mobile network / operator.

You could argue the flip side and actually be overpaying if you make very few or don’t make any calls on a pay monthly mobile plan. Certainly wouldn’t say that it’s “free” Included in you allowance, yes. Free definitely not.

On the other hand you can actually make a “landline” (very nearly) free if you choose a VoIP provider with no setup or ongoing monthly rental / access fee /and perhaps a peppercorn credit for a limited number of outgoing calls as many on here and elsewhere do.

The thing with mobiles vs landline is that it all depends upon who you know and that they do.
I would say theres a split some people still use the landline, some just use mobile.
Using my own experience i would say that most of those over 50 will use the landline, and those under 50 will use mobile more.
For myself i usually use the mobile , however I have had the same landline number for a long long time.
the landline number is also the number that distant relatives ( and old friends) may call me on.
So while im mostly mobile, i would still say the landline is critical to staying in touch.
not too mention that we had a spate of powercuts not too long ago where the only thing that worked was an old corded phone, for some reason when the power goes off after about 10-15 minutes the mobile networks also vanish and you cant find a signal

In reply to a post by Rich_T:

Using my own experience i would say that most of those over 50 will use the landline, and those under 50 will use mobile more.

I'm nearly 65 and have used mobiles exclusively for outgoing calls for many years. I might occasionally use the landline for an 080 call.

In reply to a post by Rich_T:

for some reason when the power goes off after about 10-15 minutes the mobile networks also vanish and you cant find a signal

Not had that problem during power cuts.

Can I ask what price you got from PN?

FTTP now available for my father-in-law and if we can get close to teh original £22 including line rental then we will consider a move for him - although his emergency alarm will need reslving.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Can I ask what price you got from PN?

FTTP now available for my father-in-law and if we can get close to teh original £22 including line rental then we will consider a move for him - although his emergency alarm will need reslving.

Out of interest how are you planning on handling his voice service?

Probably migrate to my VoIP provider and my account unless PN has a rethink about their offering.

It will be three months before I do anything as it would need to co-incide with one of my visits.

In reply to a post by dect:

Out of interest how are you planning on handling his voice service?

In reply to a post by MHC:

Probably migrate to my VoIP provider and my account unless PN has a rethink about their offering.

It will be three months before I do anything as it would need to co-incide with one of my visits.

If you migrate his landline number away then it will kill off the associated broadband service, meaning he'd no longer be a Plusnet customer - and at present Plusnet FTTP is only available to existing customers. This will of course change at some point in the future.

I'm fully aware of that.

In reply to a post by MHC:

I'm fully aware of that.

I knew you would be thats why I never mentioned it

In reply to a post by MHC:

I'm fully aware of that.

No problem!

(Was also thinking about other readers of this thread who might not be aware of that - questions about whether it's possible to upgrade to FTTP and simultaneously port the landline number away seem quite common, along with follow-on frustrations that it is in fact not possible!)

Just had a discussion with PN regarding this and remin ded them the line is still "in contract".

The advisers told me to:

1. Initiate a VoIP migration of the existing number

2 . When the migration request is received it will start the cancellation process and PN will contact us.

3. Then to confirm with PN that I want to move from FTTC to Full Fibre / FTTP and arrange an installation date.

Pricing willl be based on those already discussed - which may not be great but will, when the. call package is eliminated, give a good saving. Contract will restart for 18 months.

The fact that there will be a "delay" between migrating and the FTTC cut-off is interesting.

Am I confodent with what I have been told? Probably 90%! Before any commitment - I will go through it again and get it in writing as keeping the number is essential as it has been there for near 60 years and known by too many to inform of a change especially as many will be elderly too.

Finger crossed it works,

I think setting up the VOIP migration first is a good move as keeping the voice number is vital. I am a little concerned that when they contact you (step 2) and you request FTTP migration (step 3) someone at Plusnet decides to cancel the VOIP migration to allow the FTTP migration to happen.

I am probably worrying over nothing but stranger things have happened.

Edit: corrected error

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Jun-22 12:34:25)

Hence the 90% and getting it in writing!

It will be a couple of months before I initiate it as visits to teh F-i-L are every 10-12 weeks and need to get everything lined up and ready!

In reply to a post by dect:

Finger crossed it works,

I think setting up the VOIP migration first is a good move as keeping the voice number is vital. I am a little concerned that when they contact you (step 2) and you request FTTP migration (step 3) someone at Plusnet decides to cancel the VOIP migration to allow the FTTP migration to happen.

I am probably worrying over nothing but stranger things have happened.

Edit: corrected error

It would be highly unusual for Plusnet to *not* honour the number port request. In any event the number simply would not move - it wouldn’t disappear into the ether - unless they were catastrophically incompetent.

What is more likely is that there is disjoint / additional delay between the FTTC cease and the FTTP being kicked into operation.

I would plan for the latter, rather than the former.

That is one of te issues to consider too ...

It will need careful planning so that I can get VoIP running then back to get the FTTC to FFP move completed abd everythung added.

Written confirmation of the process and timescales will be the key to it - then if they faik, I can kick te appropriate people.

Have to say I'm not entirely convinced it'll work. But good luck to MHC for being a crash-test dummy and giving this a try!

In reply to a post by MHC:

The fact that there will be a "delay" between migrating and the FTTC cut-off is interesting.

I haven't done this myself, but I am lead to believe that the delay is between "requesting" the number port, and the number port taking place. Sipgate say this is typically 7 working days (here).

Once the number port has taken place, the PSTN should be terminated immediately, along with the

If they actually agree it in writing, then I will talk to them about starting the FTTP process first. No issue about losing email - never used and PN send to a .ME address. Ultimately, all that is wanted is to avoid early termination charges - about 12 months worth.

MY own VoIP provider says around 4-5 days, but can be a little longer or shorter. Last time, BT rejected the ttransfer for some rather odd reason about "number origin" and that was about 2 weeks, then tried the same again and it was about 2 days.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Once the number port has taken place, the PSTN should be terminated immediately, along with the

You left us all wondering what the rest of the sentence is

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Jun-22 19:53:36)

Sorry, forum says it's too late to edit now! I meant along with the attached broadband service.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Sorry, forum says it's too late to edit now! I meant along with the attached broadband service.

No worries, my post was just a bit of fun

I got them down to £41.50

I got a first "offer" of £43 for 500 so it suggests there is a little negotiation room. In this case it will be 145Mbps service, probably, which is £33.