Leaving PlusNet

After being with PlusNet for year's it's time to move my Mum to another ISP. Why?

Because PN don't offer a Digital Voice product.

It's time for her contract to be renewed and it turns out they don't offer DV, and her being an old school person in her 80's she likes having a landline. With all the changes occurring it's sad but it's necessary. So, she's going to move to....... Zen Internet.

Fingers Crossed no issues.

Could you not re-contract with Plusnet still keeping your landline?

I've just re-contracted with them and kept my landline, they offered me a discount to have no landline (don't use it anyway) but it was to sign up for 2 years (no other option), however I could keep my existing setup which is for 18 months at a good price, as I'm hoping for FTTP in the next 1 to 3 years!

Good luck with your move to Zen.

DV is just glorified SIP so you could source a SIP service and an ATA to plug the phone into - not as simple as moving to an ISP that supports DV but an option.

For exactly the same reasons we are doing exactly the same thing. We go live with Zen on the 26th.

There are lots of alternatives but Zen felt like a high quality one stop shop. I am perfectly happy with our decision.

I have asked a couple of telephone questions in the Zen forum which will hopefully make set up easier.

Good luck.

You shouldn't need to set anything up, Zen will automatically provision the broadband and DV on the supplied FritzBOX router when first connected after they have taken over the service.

For a wired phone it is just a case of plugging it into the FON socket via the supplied BT - RJ11 adapter. You can register compatible DECT handsets directly with the FritzBOX and do away with an existing DECT basestation, many of the Gigaset (formerly Siemens) handsets work.

A plus point is that if you decided to migrate just the DV service to another supplier once out of the initial contract period you are not locked in by Zen, unlike some other suppliers.

It is worth checking your options as Plusnet will hopefully just allow you to renew keeping your existing package including landline for the time being.

It will just move the problem to a later date but at least you can continue with hopefully cheaper Plusnet prices for the time being?

Plusnet send end of contract emails approximately 1 month before it is due for renewal. It should have wording in this email on whether renewing keeps your landline or not with a price and link. End of contract date is available in the Plusnet Dashboard.

If Plusnet do remove the landline service and not provide an alternative I would say that is a big enough contract change and you would be free to move elsewhere without penalty.

If your mum has a mobile and can tolerate it and you renew it may give a good number of months to wean your mum off the landline and give mobile number for contact details instead.

In reply to a post by think26872:

It is worth checking your options as Plusnet will hopefully just allow you to renew keeping your existing package including landline for the time being.

It will just move the problem to a later date but at least you can continue with hopefully cheaper Plusnet prices for the time being?

Plusnet send end of contract emails approximately 1 month before it is due for renewal. It should have wording in this email on whether renewing keeps your landline or not with a price and link. End of contract date is available in the Plusnet Dashboard.

If Plusnet do remove the landline service and not provide an alternative I would say that is a big enough contract change and you would be free to move elsewhere without penalty.

If your mum has a mobile and can tolerate it and you renew it may give a good number of months to wean your mum off the landline and give mobile number for contact details instead.

Or is it possible to port the landline number to a VoIP provider and put their app on your mother's mobile so that the landline number will ring on her mobile?

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Or is it possible to port the landline number to a VoIP provider and put their app on your mother's mobile so that the landline number will ring on her mobile?

Might have been better to reply to the OP not me.

VoIP is a possibility but just moving to a mobile phone may be a big step having the complication of a VoIP provider may be a step to far. You will also have to trust that the separation of broadband and landline also goes without a hitch.

Updating contact numbers to a mobile phone number should just work. Just need to remember to sign up for a £5/month SIM with unlimited Voice and SMS.

Separating out broadband and contact number is a good idea as it also opens up the opportunity of hopefully moving to altnet providers who do not offer voice services but getting a faster cheaper broadband service even taking into account the £5/month SIM.

Edited by think26872 (Fri 19-Apr-24 19:12:13)

In reply to a post by think26872:

VoIP is a possibility but just moving to a mobile phone may be a big step having the complication of a VoIP provider may be a step to far.

For a transition period you can get the old landline number to forward calls to the new mobile number, and it can be cheap if there aren't very many minutes of these per month.

e.g. https://numberpeople.co.uk/call-forwarding-rates-bun...

Finding someone who can divert to a recorded message would be even better.

In reply to a post by BB4Tickton:

Could you not re-contract with Plusnet still keeping your landline?

I've just re-contracted with them and kept my landline, they offered me a discount to have no landline (don't use it anyway) but it was to sign up for 2 years (no other option), however I could keep my existing setup which is for 18 months at a good price, as I'm hoping for FTTP in the next 1 to 3 years!

Good luck with your move to Zen.

We could, but as it's due to be discontinued I didn't fancy the hassle of having to deal with this at a later date. If we move now we go onto DV at a price that suits Mum. PN could only advise they could not promise when the phone would be discontinued but we'd have 3 months notice.

In reply to a post by ian72:

DV is just glorified SIP so you could source a SIP service and an ATA to plug the phone into - not as simple as moving to an ISP that supports DV but an option.

I have VoIP services myself via SipGate and VoIPFone, but I didn't want to have to manage that for Mum as well, hence the potential move to DV.

I have heard many good things about Zen and to know it's still owned by the same person nearly 30 years after he started the company speaks volumes to me.

I feel happier knowing I can ring Zen if the DV plays up and they fix it.

In reply to a post by think26872:

It is worth checking your options as Plusnet will hopefully just allow you to renew keeping your existing package including landline for the time being.

It will just move the problem to a later date but at least you can continue with hopefully cheaper Plusnet prices for the time being?

Plusnet send end of contract emails approximately 1 month before it is due for renewal. It should have wording in this email on whether renewing keeps your landline or not with a price and link. End of contract date is available in the Plusnet Dashboard.

If Plusnet do remove the landline service and not provide an alternative I would say that is a big enough contract change and you would be free to move elsewhere without penalty.

If your mum has a mobile and can tolerate it and you renew it may give a good number of months to wean your mum off the landline and give mobile number for contact details instead.

To keep things simple I think it's time to move away from PN, they are sadly just a side-line of BT now. The colleague I spoke to said we could renew and at some point the phone would be phased out, but if we are going to make the jump (which we would have to do at some point) I'd much rather do it now at the end of the contract then mid contract and have to hope PN release us.

Sadly even though my Mum has a mobile phone it's only turned on now and then, she has grown up with a landline (she was once a Telephonist for the GPO) so I don't think we could wean her off it!

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by think26872:

It is worth checking your options as Plusnet will hopefully just allow you to renew keeping your existing package including landline for the time being.

It will just move the problem to a later date but at least you can continue with hopefully cheaper Plusnet prices for the time being?

Plusnet send end of contract emails approximately 1 month before it is due for renewal. It should have wording in this email on whether renewing keeps your landline or not with a price and link. End of contract date is available in the Plusnet Dashboard.

If Plusnet do remove the landline service and not provide an alternative I would say that is a big enough contract change and you would be free to move elsewhere without penalty.

If your mum has a mobile and can tolerate it and you renew it may give a good number of months to wean your mum off the landline and give mobile number for contact details instead.

Or is it possible to port the landline number to a VoIP provider and put their app on your mother's mobile so that the landline number will ring on her mobile?

It probably is, but considering the mobile is off 99% of the time, that's not going to work sadly, hence the move to DV.

In reply to a post by chris52:

For exactly the same reasons we are doing exactly the same thing. We go live with Zen on the 26th.

There are lots of alternatives but Zen felt like a high quality one stop shop. I am perfectly happy with our decision.

I have asked a couple of telephone questions in the Zen forum which will hopefully make set up easier.

Good luck.

I do like Zen for many reasons, and the person I spoke to (at nearly 5pm one evening) was so helpful and informative it just made me feel it's the right company to go with.

I hope your move goes well

In reply to a post by tdw42:

You shouldn't need to set anything up, Zen will automatically provision the broadband and DV on the supplied FritzBOX router when first connected after they have taken over the service.

For a wired phone it is just a case of plugging it into the FON socket via the supplied BT - RJ11 adapter. You can register compatible DECT handsets directly with the FritzBOX and do away with an existing DECT basestation, many of the Gigaset (formerly Siemens) handsets work.

A plus point is that if you decided to migrate just the DV service to another supplier once out of the initial contract period you are not locked in by Zen, unlike some other suppliers.

Sounds like it should be plain sailing, however I will probably pay her a visit around D day just to be safe!

ah that's good to know about migrating the service.

Why not just renew the Broadband with PN and migrate the landline number to a VoIP provider - simple and easy to do. Get a Gigaset N300 and two or three handsets and so easy to do.


PN have good support for the elderly and infirm. Process make ot easy for you to deal with te account. If there is a failure it will be escaleted and dealt with ASAP. We discovered a fault on an infirm person's line. Reported mid/late afternoon on Froiday. PN got OR techs on site for 8AM on teh sturday.

DV is just a different name for VoIP.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Why not just renew the Broadband with PN and migrate the landline number to a VoIP provider - simple and easy to do. Get a Gigaset N300 and two or three handsets and so easy to do.

I assume you've not read the answers above from the OP then? This question has already been answered

Quite. We will eventually have a similar situation to the OP, although I have a VoIP number with Sipgate, there's no way I'd go down that road for our relative.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by think26872:

VoIP is a possibility but just moving to a mobile phone may be a big step having the complication of a VoIP provider may be a step to far.

For a transition period you can get the old landline number to forward calls to the new mobile number, and it can be cheap if there aren't very many minutes of these per month.

e.g. https://numberpeople.co.uk/call-forwarding-rates-bun...

Finding someone who can divert to a recorded message would be even better.

numberpeople has had a huge problem with porting my other number. and the customer service isn't the greatest.

Post deleted by PCJM40

You saying your relative is moving from Plusnet to Zen did shock me a fair bit, if your relative is of an age then I would have thought BT would have been the sensible option as in more recent times Zen haven't been without their issues.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Why not just renew the Broadband with PN and migrate the landline number to a VoIP provider - simple and easy to do. Get a Gigaset N300 and two or three handsets and so easy to do.


PN have good support for the elderly and infirm. Process make ot easy for you to deal with te account. If there is a failure it will be escaleted and dealt with ASAP. We discovered a fault on an infirm person's line. Reported mid/late afternoon on Froiday. PN got OR techs on site for 8AM on teh sturday.

Because I don't want to have to have her deal with 2 bills and 2 providers. I agree PN have been excellent in dealing with her previous faults, but that's saying that Zen won't be able to do the same thing.

On a side note I have an N300 IP with a phone currently, and it was NOT the easiest thing to set up. I don't fancy having to go through that again.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

You saying your relative is moving from Plusnet to Zen did shock me a fair bit, if your relative is of an age then I would have thought BT would have been the sensible option as in more recent times Zen haven't been without their issues.

I have avoided BT because I have dealt with them before, and I ended up doing everything via there forum... OK maybe they have improved since then, but Zen are a smaller company who have been running for 30 plus years, and I am sure they have had their fair share of issues, but nothing that BT/PN, (insert name of provider here) will also have had over the years....

The last N300 I set up - took 15 minutes with 3 VoIP through two provuiders plus a PSTN line - nothing complex about it.

In reply to a post by MHC:

The last N300 I set up - took 15 minutes with 3 VoIP through two provuiders plus a PSTN line - nothing complex about it.

I appreciate that, but there is more than one reason for not wanting to have to do that, including have to deal with 2 suppliers PN and the VoIP provider, and two bills etc....

In reply to a post by MHC:

The last N300 I set up - took 15 minutes with 3 VoIP through two providers plus a PSTN line - nothing complex about it.

As you say its a piece of cake.

In reply to a post by CJT:

I have avoided BT because I have dealt with them before, and I ended up doing everything via there forum... OK maybe they have improved since then, but Zen are a smaller company who have been running for 30 plus years, and I am sure they have had their fair share of issues, but nothing that BT/PN, (insert name of provider here) will also have had over the years....

The issues BT, PN or even Sky have had are no where near those of Zen. Zen's issues spanned months where those of the others I've mentioned have typically been short outages that they all have experienced over the years. If you think Zen is a good move I will keep my fingers crossed for you but I think its a bad move.

2 bills - maybe. But PN will be on Direct Debit and a fixed sum monthly and it is easy to have an alternate contact such as you on the account. Choose a suitable VoIP provider such as VoIPify and add a credit sum based on estimated usage, when that gets near zero, top up. My VoIPify account is topped up every four months or so and I am alerted when it gets close.

In reply to a post by MHC:

2 bills - maybe. But PN will be on Direct Debit and a fixed sum monthly and it is easy to have an alternate contact such as you on the account. Choose a suitable VoIP provider such as VoIPify and add a credit sum based on estimated usage, when that gets near zero, top up. My VoIPify account is topped up every four months or so and I am alerted when it gets close.

You have added two 'complications', first you say it needs 15mins to set up, well in our case that would be me as our relative struggles to use a cordless, let alone anything else, then it needs 'monitoring' to ensure the credit doesn't run down, once again would have to be me. Like the OP I would use one company which operates both parts, then if I'm away I can just contact one company and say 'sort it', as I certainly don't want a call when I'm thousands of miles away to say "freds phone aint working, what do we do".

I agree for people of a certain age it makes sense to use a provider who provides both services so relatives can be fully hands off with the process. The only requirement then is to pick the right provider.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

I agree for people of a certain age it makes sense to use a provider who provides both services so relatives can be fully hands off with the process. The only requirement then is to pick the right provider.

And there are not many to choose from these days that provide both broadband and (digital) voice. BT/EE, Sky, Vodafone, Zen... any others worth mentioning?

In reply to a post by MHC:

2 bills - maybe. But PN will be on Direct Debit and a fixed sum monthly and it is easy to have an alternate contact such as you on the account. Choose a suitable VoIP provider such as VoIPify and add a credit sum based on estimated usage, when that gets near zero, top up. My VoIPify account is topped up every four months or so and I am alerted when it gets close.

What works for you does not work for everyone, and it isn't something I want to have to involve myself in. Secondly Voipfy are a Voip provider, not an ISP so they strictly focus on Voip and based on their website it appears to be targeted to Business. I needed a simple all-in-one solution and Zen meets those needs. Finally I don't want the hassle of changing phones and having to teach my Mum how to use another cordless handselt, let along the expense of replacing perfectly working handsets just so I can move to a VoIP provider when I can move to Zen and plug the existing handset base into the router.

Can you see my point of view here?

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

I agree for people of a certain age it makes sense to use a provider who provides both services so relatives can be fully hands off with the process. The only requirement then is to pick the right provider.

And who would the "right provider" be?

I am guessing it's NOT Zen based on your previous comments....

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

I agree for people of a certain age it makes sense to use a provider who provides both services so relatives can be fully hands off with the process. The only requirement then is to pick the right provider.

And there are not many to choose from these days that provide both broadband and (digital) voice. BT/EE, Sky, Vodafone, Zen... any others worth mentioning?

Well you might wanna remove BT from the equation just gone to their website to check prices for my Mum's address and they are offering 4G Broadband only.... they are directing me to EE....

So for EE £29.99 per month for up to 40Mbps broadband PLUS £18 per month for unlimited calls... = £47.99 a month! over 24 Months £1151.76

Zen £32 per month for up to 40Mbps broadband plus £6 per month for 1000 mins of inclusive calls that's ALMOST 17 hours of calls per month = £38 that's a £10 per month saving.... Total over 18 Months = £684

I wonder which one I'd take....

In reply to a post by CJT:

What works for you does not work for everyone, and it isn't something I want to have to involve myself in.

Finally I don't want the hassle of changing phones and having to teach my Mum how to use another cordless handselt, let along the expense of replacing perfectly working handsets just so I can move to a VoIP provider when I can move to Zen and plug the existing handset base into the router.

Can you see my point of view here?

No one is forcing you to take any particular solution. The point of posting here is to seek a range of different solutions. If, by "seeing your point of view" you mean understanding your use case, I think people do, but probably framing this as a use case does not come across well.

If keeping the handset is an issue, then you can buy an ATA [Analog telephone Adapter] and run with the old handset. Personally, I no longer have the remote support issues to deal with, but if I did, the first thing I would do, [recognising that the phone is probably more important than the internet for this situation] is get the phone away from the ISP. That at least allows you the option of a quick reconfig with a mobile router in the event of problems with the ISP.

In reply to a post by CJT:

Sadly even though my Mum has a mobile phone it's only turned on now and then, she has grown up with a landline (she was once a Telephonist for the GPO) so I don't think we could wean her off it!

I thought perhaps we would have a similar problem when my elderly aunt moved into a new property recently. However she transitioned from landline to mobile without too much difficulty and being a light user it was economically viable.

If one considers other factors such as internet outages, power cuts (leaving aside the complications of a UPS in such circumstances) and the recommended need for a mobile phone as backup for a VoIP service then that could mean simply only having a mobile phone for voice would be sufficient.

Currently I have FTTP broadband and PSTN voice and at some point before PSTN shuts down I'll probably cease it and just use a mobile for voice - at the moment the idea of VoIP, broadband + DV bundle contracts, number porting, ATA, UPS, etc. doesn't seem very attractive.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

I thought perhaps we would have a similar problem when my elderly aunt moved into a new property recently. However she transitioned from landline to mobile without too much difficulty and being a light user it was economically viable.

If one considers other factors such as internet outages, power cuts (leaving aside the complications of a UPS in such circumstances) and the recommended need for a mobile phone as backup for a VoIP service then that could mean simply only having a mobile phone for voice would be sufficient.

Currently I have FTTP broadband and PSTN voice and at some point before PSTN shuts down I'll probably cease it and just use a mobile for voice - at the moment the idea of VoIP, broadband + DV bundle contracts, number porting, ATA, UPS, etc. doesn't seem very attractive.

As naff as it is, I think people will have to get used to mobiles, it is possible to get mobiles like the TTfone TT190 that have large numbers and other things that can be got on a normal phone.
The problem is for alarms and other stuff that rely on home phones.

I don't agree with taking away the landline and providers should be forced to supply a landline of some sort. I am not saying alt networks as where we change to them, we do so knowing that there is no landline, but providers that have had landlines before should be forced to keep them, even if it is VoIP.

In reply to a post by DFScale:

No one is forcing you to take any particular solution. The point of posting here is to seek a range of different solutions. If, by "seeing your point of view" you mean understanding your use case, I think people do, but probably framing this as a use case does not come across well.

If keeping the handset is an issue, then you can buy an ATA [Analog telephone Adapter] and run with the old handset. Personally, I no longer have the remote support issues to deal with, but if I did, the first thing I would do, [recognising that the phone is probably more important than the internet for this situation] is get the phone away from the ISP. That at least allows you the option of a quick reconfig with a mobile router in the event of problems with the ISP.

Hi DFScale,

At no point was I suggesting I was being forced to do anything, simply that the response was it was "better" to move to a dedicated VoIP provider, which in this case I don't feel is the better option.

My initial post was more a point of my being somewhat surprised that PlusNet do not offer a DV product (when their parent companies main brand (BT) does. However that can be easily sorted by a move to another provider.

IF the landline were to go down then (whilst I am working to get it fixed) Mum would have to use the mobile, but as she's had one for many years and never turns it on I think the ship has passed on her using it regularly.

For now the preference is to move to a supplier who provides an integrated DV service and worry about moving to VoIP if/when the ISP stops offering DV.

Also I felt a very negative vibe was being made by some against the ISP I had mentioned as the one I was thinking of moving my Mum over to.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

I thought perhaps we would have a similar problem when my elderly aunt moved into a new property recently. However she transitioned from landline to mobile without too much difficulty and being a light user it was economically viable.

If one considers other factors such as internet outages, power cuts (leaving aside the complications of a UPS in such circumstances) and the recommended need for a mobile phone as backup for a VoIP service then that could mean simply only having a mobile phone for voice would be sufficient.

Currently I have FTTP broadband and PSTN voice and at some point before PSTN shuts down I'll probably cease it and just use a mobile for voice - at the moment the idea of VoIP, broadband + DV bundle contracts, number porting, ATA, UPS, etc. doesn't seem very attractive.

Hi 4M2,

I am really glad to hear you were able to move your Aunt over to using her Mobile more and if it's more economically viable that's even better. I am going to encourage my Mum to make sure hers is charged and on (and somewhere she can find it at home) going forwards just in case of an emergency. However as per my reply to DFScale I don't have hope in her moving over entirely, so for now DV is the better option for her.

I would as they suggested use an ATA but the socket is already overloaded (I think we now need an extension lead to cope) so adding another plug (to be turned on/off in the event of an issue) just adds another layer of issues to the mix.

My mother has recently received a pendant/alarm system that has a box with sim card and it works very well. Even the smoke and heat alarms are registered to the box and trigger a call back when activated.

In reply to a post by CJT:

And who would the "right provider" be?

I am guessing it's NOT Zen based on your previous comments....

You would be 100% correct making that assumption, if you want a black box solution then not Zen, I would even suggest Sky or Vodaphone are a better choice than Zen.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

My mother has recently received a pendant/alarm system that has a box with sim card and it works very well. Even the smoke and heat alarms are registered to the box and trigger a call back when activated.

I am glad to hear they provided such an option. Thankfully at present we have not had to have a pendant alarm for Mum but it’s good to know an option like this exists.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by CJT:

And who would the "right provider" be?

I am guessing it's NOT Zen based on your previous comments....

You would be 100% correct making that assumption, if you want a black box solution then not Zen, I would even suggest Sky or Vodaphone are a better choice than Zen.

Tried Sky as overpriced for call plans as BT/EE and for some bizarre reason the higher speed package, which she has NO need of was cheaper then the speed she can get! Vodafone are a potential option.

Out of mild curiosity what is your issue with Zen?

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

As naff as it is, I think people will have to get used to mobiles, it is possible to get mobiles like the TTfone TT190 that have large numbers and other things that can be got on a normal phone.

Even an inexpensive 4g "feature phone" will allow a little web browsing depending upon sufficient data allowance. Possibly handy if the SoGEA or full fibre service is down? 3g mobile broadband usb dongles will soon be totally redundant so rather than invest in a 4g/5g LTE data only solution, as broadband backup, one might as well find a suitable "feature phone" and sim deal. A "smart phone" may well an "over the top" solution for voice, text and where only limited broadband backup is required.

Personally I would look at mobiles for voice etc. rather than VoIP but the OP considers a DV/VoIP solution to be more suitable and that's fine.

In reply to a post by CJT:

[Hi [b]4M2,

I am really glad to hear you were able to move your Aunt over to using her Mobile more and if it's more economically viable that's even better. I am going to encourage my Mum to make sure hers is charged and on (and somewhere she can find it at home) going forwards just in case of an emergency. However as per my reply to DFScale I don't have hope in her moving over entirely, so for now DV is the better option for her.

I can fully understand the situation and your need to keep things as manageable as possible. Certainly broadband and VoIP from differing providers may over complicate things especially if a powered ATA is needed. If she is happy with a DV/VoIP and broadband bundled deal from a provider such as Zen and keeping her mobile accessible and active then that's fine. She may in due course find that a mobile phone might be sufficient for her needs and just have that account for voice/text.

Good luck.

In reply to a post by CJT:

Out of mild curiosity what is your issue with Zen?

You make it sound like I have a beef with Zen

For your relatives use case, I don't believe Zen are the correct provider, add that to Zen's own backhaul being problematic it doesn't bode well. I've said my piece I won't raise my concerns again I promise

In reply to a post by broadband66:

My mother has recently received a pendant/alarm system that has a box with sim card and it works very well. Even the smoke and heat alarms are registered to the box and trigger a call back when activated.

That is good, but would be a problem for someone who did not have a good mobile signal. As i said above, it is the way things are going with no landline, but a reliable system need to be put in place first., I think now that it is all being rushed and communication have been naff. Just because ISPs may have known about this for a few years, the majority of people did not.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Even an inexpensive 4g "feature phone" will allow a little web browsing depending upon sufficient data allowance. Possibly handy if the SoGEA or full fibre service is down? 3g mobile broadband usb dongles will soon be totally redundant so rather than invest in a 4g/5g LTE data only solution, as broadband backup, one might as well find a suitable "feature phone" and sim deal. A "smart phone" may well an "over the top" solution for voice, text and where only limited broadband backup is required.

Personally I would look at mobiles for voice etc. rather than VoIP but the OP considers a DV/VoIP solution to be more suitable and that's fine.

As I said above, it is fine as long as the mobile signal is good, there are still many places where mobile phone signal is naff, even in this city I live in, there are places where mobile signal drops to virtually Zero.
Where my partner live, the only signal I can get there is 2G if I am lucky, granted she has fibre so i can use Wi-fi calling.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

You make it sound like I have a beef with Zen

For your relatives use case, I don't believe Zen are the correct provider, add that to Zen's own backhaul being problematic it doesn't bode well. I've said my piece I won't raise my concerns again I promise

I apologise if I misunderstood your responses, it appeared to look as if you disliked Zen but I appreciate everyone’s input including yours.

I understand Zen has had well publicised backhaul issues, but these seem to be behind them if you’ll pardon the pun.

As you have said you don’t feel Zen are a viable option, who would you suggest are a viable option in my Mum’s circumstances?

For what it's worth there is zero chance I would ever recommend a friend/family member looking to retain a landline goes down the path of an ISP and an ATA. SIP is just too fragile to stick behind a NAT gateway that becomes an easy target to point fingers at from the VoIP providers perspective.

If someone comes up with a VoIP service that isn't SIP and so won't get mangled by NAT or CGNAT and can provide an ATA that auto-provisions itself then I'd feel a lot more comfortable, until then even if the total cost is £5-£10 more each month I think it's worth it to have one box that the ISP is responsible for that is the bit providing the broadband as well as the bit providing the phone line.

I have a Cisco ATA191 on A&A and my ISP is Lit Fibre, it works for me but I wouldn't want to put anybody else through the process of getting the tones sounding right for the UK, the ringing cadence configured properly etc.

In reply to a post by CJT:

who would you suggest are a viable option in my Mum’s circumstances?

Any of the mass providers who do a combined broadband and phone service.

The negativity about Zen may be a valid experience for some. After 7 years with Zen, moving to FTTC with DV, then Fibre 900, I have never had any issues with BB or phone. I will soon be moving the phone to a VoIP provider, as the Zen £6/month for 1000 minutes isn't justified by our negligible phone usage. As a service, however, it has been perfect. Plug any analogue phone or DECT base into the supplied Fritz! router and it just works.

In reply to a post by jpm:

For what it's worth there is zero chance I would ever recommend a friend/family member looking to retain a landline goes down the path of an ISP and an ATA. SIP is just too fragile to stick behind a NAT gateway that becomes an easy target to point fingers at from the VoIP providers perspective.

If someone comes up with a VoIP service that isn't SIP and so won't get mangled by NAT or CGNAT and can provide an ATA that auto-provisions itself then I'd feel a lot more comfortable, until then even if the total cost is £5-£10 more each month I think it's worth it to have one box that the ISP is responsible for that is the bit providing the broadband as well as the bit providing the phone line.

I have a Cisco ATA191 on A&A and my ISP is Lit Fibre, it works for me but I wouldn't want to put anybody else through the process of getting the tones sounding right for the UK, the ringing cadence configured properly etc.

I have had a VoIP phone behind CGNAT and NAT, usually worked OK, but when it didn't, other things not phone related were in problems. This was wireless broadband rather than NAT or CGNAT causing problems. Now with fibre and behind NAT, everything is fine and the phone is even networked with an old run of phone cable.

As for getting the tones sounding right, you could just accept the defaults or there are pages with the settings - you only need to set the basics. https://ytexplode.com/uk-regional-settings-for-grand... refers

I'm not denying that it can't all be configured or that it will work, I'm saying that I cannot be bothered to do that for someone else who is then going to be reliant on me to support them.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by CJT:

who would you suggest are a viable option in my Mum’s circumstances?

Any of the mass providers who do a combined broadband and phone service.

Which, having ruled out BT/EE and Sky due to there overly expensive Phone packages, leaves me with my original choice of Zen (which you have suggested to avoid) and Vodafone.

In reply to a post by CJT:

Which, having ruled out BT/EE and Sky due to there overly expensive Phone packages, leaves me with my original choice of Zen (which you have suggested to avoid) and Vodafone.

When using the words "mass providers" I not for one second considered Zen to be a mass provider, probably medium at best. If you're going to rule out everyone apart from Zen you know who you will be left with

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by CJT:

Out of mild curiosity what is your issue with Zen?

You make it sound like I have a beef with Zen

For your relatives use case, I don't believe Zen are the correct provider, add that to Zen's own backhaul being problematic it doesn't bode well. I've said my piece I won't raise my concerns again I promise

No! You rather made it sound like you had a beef with Zen when you could easily have expressed your "concerns" over eg. their backhaul at the outset. The rest, without any explanation or justification just sounds like YHO.
As many others have had no issues whatsoever with Zen, then I'd certainly take you remarks with a pinch of salt.
I'm not sure why @CJT found the need to apologise either. I can quite see where he's coming from and his proposed solution sounds like he's considered the options well.

In reply to a post by ChrisAO:

I'd certainly take you remarks with a pinch of salt.

Chris, I will be taking your post with a pinch of salt as well and putting it straight in the garbage bin as you are clearly out of touch with whats been going on at Zen even though you being retired I would have hoped you could have done your research before make stupid uneducated comments.

There's always one person who's a day late and a dollar short who wants to join in the discussion.

I did exactly what you are suggesting and moved from Plusnet to Zen last week. I thought that you might be interested in my experiences.

1. I have had a problem in that my seach engine thinks that I am now in Singapore. Zen are being slow in sorting this out. we are a week in + a bank holiday weekend. It is causing us problems. No such problem in the last 6 years with Plusnet. We are in the UK.

2. The Fritz!box 7530AX router.

I set up our DECT phones to work with the DECT hub built in but I have swopped back to the old base station which just plugs straight in to the router. We had 2 problems. Firstly the DECT range with the Frtiz!box base station is considerably less that with the Panasonic. It is fine in the house but doesn't really work in the garden. Secondly we often don't know which phone is in which charger. With the Panasonic base it doesn't matter as with an incoming call all bases are live & if we need to transfer a call you just pick up any handset and you are good to go. With the Fritz!box you need to transfer the call which means you need to know which handset you are transferring to. It didn't really work for us. Having said that we now have the "cleanest" and easiest to hear telephone calls ever.

The WiFi range of the Fritz!nox isn't as good as the Plusnet Hub 2 that we were using but better than the Hub One that preceeded it.. All 3 were in exactly the same location

Conclusion
As Vodafone have upgraded their router in the last couple of days I would give them real consideration.

Thanks

Edited by PCJM40 (Fri 03-May-24 17:35:55)

In reply to a post by chris52:

I did exactly what you are suggesting and moved from Plusnet to Zen last week. I thought that you might be interested in my experiences.

1. I have had a problem in that my seach engine thinks that I am now in Singapore. Zen are being slow in sorting this out. we are a week in + a bank holiday weekend. It is causing us problems. No such problem in the last 6 years with Plusnet. We are in the UK.

2. The Fritz!box 7530AX router.

I set up our DECT phones to work with the DECT hub built in but I have swopped back to the old base station which just plugs straight in to the router. We had 2 problems. Firstly the DECT range with the Frtiz!box base station is considerably less that with the Panasonic. It is fine in the house but doesn't really work in the garden. Secondly we often don't know which phone is in which charger. With the Panasonic base it doesn't matter as with an incoming call all bases are live & if we need to transfer a call you just pick up any handset and you are good to go. With the Fritz!box you need to transfer the call which means you need to know which handset you are transferring to. It didn't really work for us. Having said that we now have the "cleanest" and easiest to hear telephone calls ever.

The WiFi range of the Fritz!nox isn't as good as the Plusnet Hub 2 that we were using but better than the Hub One that preceeded it.. All 3 were in exactly the same location

Conclusion
As Vodafone have upgraded their router in the last couple of days I would give them real consideration.

FYI

@Chris52
As it happens I'd just been reading your Geo-location problem thread. As others have explained in the thread, it's not really Zen's fault and they seem to be trying to get it solved.
Plusnet have had identical problems with IP addresses at various times.
This issue is not unique.
Your Fritz!box issue seems to be a totally different problem - again it doesn't seem to be Zen related

I haven't really got an issue with the Fritz!box. It is simply different to the Plusnet router.

The Singapore problem is different. They might be trying to solve it but it is incredibly slow and it all seems to be waiting for them to get round to getting back to me. It might not be their fault but it occured when they set the account up and allocated the details. In my eyes they could do more to resolve the situation quickly by changing the set up details.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by ChrisAO:

I'd certainly take you remarks with a pinch of salt.

Chris, I will be taking your post with a pinch of salt as well and putting it straight in the garbage bin as you are clearly out of touch with whats been going on at Zen even though you being retired I would have hoped you could have done your research before make stupid uneducated comments.

There's always one person who's a day late and a dollar short who wants to join in the discussion.

What an arrogant and rude response. Out of touch with the "latest" on Zen maybe, but retired doesn't mean I have time to trawl the Internet for all the problems with an assortment of ISPs.
Your initial response dissing Zen was the issue, instead of saying they've had ... the following problems, with some links to the details, instead, no information at all. Certainly not "educating" anyone or helpful. Not helpful to anyone! The Zen forum here doesn't seem exactly full of major issues, and Zen would be on my shortlist as a possible future provider, so unless you've got some detailed specifics with links, end of conversation!

That is the risk you take moving from one to the other, sometimes things can go smoothly, other times it can all go to pot. One of the reason I stayed with plusnet for 9 years. Moving from one FTTC provider to another would not be much benefit. It will no doubt be the same moving from one provider to another on Openreach FTTP network, unless it is for price or maybe different extras.

I don't need extras, just an internet connection, that is all I need.

I agree, just because someone is retired don;lt mean they have the time to rummage around the internet looking for stuff.


My brother is retired and is busier now than ever with different things.

In reply to a post by ChrisAO:

What an arrogant and rude response.

Typical, you piled in late with your righteousness opinionated argumentative comments like below and tried to cause an issue between CJT and me. You also tried to tell me what I should and should not include in my comments.

In reply to a post by ChrisAO:

No! You rather made it sound like you had a beef with Zen

In reply to a post by ChrisAO:

I'm not sure why @CJT found the need to apologise either.

CJT did not appear offended or upset by my comments and I am sorry to CJT if my comments caused them any issues. I am NOT sorry to you for how I responded to your comments because you clearly started the negativity toward me and my comments.

Please keep things civil. Insulting remarks aren't helpful even if people do not agree. It's better to agree to disagree than be rude.

Thanks,

John

Firstly I just want to thank everyone for their input on my post.

I may not have agreed with every reply but I can still appreciate everyone's input.

Regardless of who I help Mum decide to go with, I still feel it was important to post here about PN's decision NOT to support Digital Voice.

Thanks again for all the input I think we can consider this post closed.