BT living in 1980;s still as to be unexpected. Is the reason why I would never ever get Bt infinity with them sooner have 2mbit. If there was no competition in the UK IE Virgin or the government opening up the local loop we would still all be on 56k modems. IT still hurts to even return to a BT whole sale product, although my time with Nildram was great pre Tiscali take over.

The amount of money I;ve paid them over the years be it wireplay (£3 a minute peak) on a modem or ISDN (£1200 a 1/4 bills) or £80 a month when adsl first came out I should be a major shareholder, while friends in sweden had 100mbit fibre for 30 euro a month back in 2000 !

Anyway rant off, I hope i dont get moved from a fastpath profile , i will speak to engineer when hes here about it maybe he can put me on a profile.

In reply to a post by snoz:

Anyway rant off, I hope i dont get moved from a fastpath profile , i will speak to engineer when hes here about it maybe he can put me on a profile.

The engineer won't have any control over fast path or not. The only options are as I said - three choices set by the Customer Party (in essence, the ISP) trading off speed and stability.

Ultimately, I think BT Openreach took the decision that 'fast path or bust' was not viable on FTTC. When interleaving is deployed, the delay tends to be much less on FTTC than on ADSL.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

A chance that i don't feel i could personally take not with 18-24 mth contract term

Which simply means you can't have FTTC tommy . Even if it's interleaved latency and lack of jitter is better than your ADSL2+ one.

24-month terms? Where? I've seen one somewhere, but it was a no-no site anyway.

On my ADSL connection interleave (even the smallest amount that BE support can configure,adds some 20ms to the from my router to the be gateway)

And although that may not make much of a difference to UK based web sites(even though i am able to detect a slightly slower load times on some sites) The main problem comes when connecting to places like the USA One of the primary reasons for me having an internet connection is for online gaming, and most of the fellow gamers who join me in game regularly live in the USA

Peering /routing is equally important for gaming too, But until /if vectoring is available . or FOD be rolled out and become more viable, i am all too well aware that i won't be ordering FTTC any time soon,

Edited by tommy45 (Tue 29-Jan-13 16:45:04)

Can't say I'm finding ping times to be a problem on my PlusNet FTTC connection:

http://www.pingtest.net/result/76330414.png

Although my line seems pretty stable and I suspect is therefore on a fastpath DLM profile. But as David_W says, if you get a much higher line sync rate, interleaving should be less of a problem.

In reply to a post by snoz:

If there was no competition in the UK IE Virgin or the government opening up the local loop we would still all be on 56k modems. IT still hurts to even return to a BT whole sale product, although my time with Nildram was great pre Tiscali take over.

The economics of FTTx installation are such that it is not commercially viable for two providers to install in an area. It's been tried before, notably with the number of dark fibre / fibre leased line providers in major cities in the last decade (the market became saturated and many went bust), also with Digital Region versus BT Openreach in South Yorkshire (where they're fighting for the same business and many retail providers won't bother establishing themselves with a small wholesale provider).

Where there is BT FTTx, BT Openreach sell wholesale FTTx to anyone wishing to establish their own backhaul - it isn't mandatory to take BT Wholesale backhaul. At the moment, only BT Wholesale, Sky and TalkTalk have chosen to take this option, though other backhaul providers may join in. The FTTx infrastructure takes the place of the metallic local loop in the unbundling process.


Eventually, the whole 'up to', 'fast path or interleaving' and 'that darned DLM' will go away, as all new products will be FTTP or, for blocks of flats and similar, FTTB. These products are installed with optical parameters that should ensure they work with whatever flavour of PON they're fed with. They are either are within specification and work at full speed or are outside specification and should be fixed.

There's not much more possible with metallic local loops - VDSL2 is up against the limits of twisted pair physics. There are important enhancements that may well still come, but I don't foresee another generation of DSL. Vectoring may help to raise speeds by limiting the effects of near-end crosstalk at the DSLAM. For the best lines, there is the possibility of greater speeds via a profile 17a uncapped product or deployment of profile 30a. It may also be possible to ease or lift the power mask on the spectrum shared with ADSL2+, especially if areas become FTTC only.


It will be interesting to see how FTTP deployment goes over the next few years, both in terms of FTTP roll-out in FTTC served areas, and in 'virgin' FTTP deployment.

http://www.pingtest.net/result/76335487.png

Interleaved, South Manchester.

I asked the same question last month, if fastpath or interleaving could be changed and I was told it's not available on fibre.

One person who I spoke with at PN didn't even know what fastpath was, or that it's available on ADSL.

Another dumb decision made by openreach, not to allow people to change to fastpath or interleaving. Being part of DLM is not on.

Edited by deleted (Tue 29-Jan-13 22:25:29)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

With Eclipse Home Fibre a 24 month contract seems to be required for Free Setup.

That may have been the one, but I'm not sure. It's still a no-no!

Standard is 40/2 with 10GBpm. Ludicrous prices for consumer level, £5pm to get 40/10, and no mention of 80/20.

just had a snoop, are they trying to get themselves out of business?

£41 for 40/10 100gig a month and with a huge 2 year contract. Although I guess if it performs immaculate it could be seen as good value, but I would expect immaculate performance for sure on that deal. The problem is with a 2 year contract I would never take a punt. The FTTC market is very inflexible compared to adsl where one could hop from one isp to another month to month with ease.

I have yet to see a line with speed banding applied on fast path, it does seem DLM will always add interleaving first.ahead of banding. I am assuming this was done as BT openreach probably considered banding would generate more end user complaints with a higher loss of speed.

What I was going to do if my line was troublesome and had interleaving applied at a heavy level was downgrade to 40/10 to get a big snrm but I havent needed to and also as RobertoS has posted it seems there is some light interleaving profiles which dont look too bad compared to how heavy it was on BTw adsl.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

The FTTC market is very inflexible compared to adsl where one could hop from one isp to another month to month with ease.

I suspect this is because of the high setup costs from OpenReach and (I was told) a minimum of a 12 month contract between the ISP and OpenReach for each provide. Hopefully it'll change once self installs become more common.