In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

With Eclipse Home Fibre a 24 month contract seems to be required for Free Setup.

That may have been the one, but I'm not sure. It's still a no-no!

Standard is 40/2 with 10GBpm. Ludicrous prices for consumer level, £5pm to get 40/10, and no mention of 80/20.

just had a snoop, are they trying to get themselves out of business?

£41 for 40/10 100gig a month and with a huge 2 year contract. Although I guess if it performs immaculate it could be seen as good value, but I would expect immaculate performance for sure on that deal. The problem is with a 2 year contract I would never take a punt. The FTTC market is very inflexible compared to adsl where one could hop from one isp to another month to month with ease.

Oh yes eclipse, bored of waiting for a 80/20 product, at a price i don't wanna keep on bursting out laughing when i view there FTTC web page.
It's been way before xmas, a good part of last year they said something is coming, and still nothing, thats why i'm on here a lot getting the information i need to give myself i push to jump over to plusnet, but i still feel plus net as the odd bug in there ordering system like dumping all there web orders on the wrong product 40/10,but i think that issue as been fixed.
And when you place your order to migrate from another isp there is nowhere to enter your mac code along the ordering process online, don't know if any of the plus net team could answer the last question?

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

just had a snoop, are they trying to get themselves out of business?

Not whilst they are milking their monopoly in Hull!

In reply to a post by nuke_me:

And when you place your order to migrate from another isp there is nowhere to enter your mac code along the ordering process online, don't know if any of the plus net team could answer the last question?

I seem to remember there was a box for the MAC code somewhere in the sign-up process (I signed up to PlusNet at the beginning of Jan). But no problem if you don't find it or don't have your MAC code to hand at that point - you can just call them once you receive the order confirmation (within a few minutes of completing the online form usually). That's the route I took and it all worked perfectly.

If you're going to move to PlusNet, make sure you do it before 7th Feb to get the 6 months of half-price broadband rental. Finally, I understand the problem with FTTC customers being put on the wrong product has now been fixed for new sign-ups, although there are still some orders in the pipeline that were affected by it. So you should be fine if you order now.

In reply to a post by Spasch:

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

The FTTC market is very inflexible compared to adsl where one could hop from one isp to another month to month with ease.

I suspect this is because of the high setup costs from OpenReach and (I was told) a minimum of a 12 month contract between the ISP and OpenReach for each provide. Hopefully it'll change once self installs become more common.

agreed, me and aaisp have both put complaints in, no idea if anyone else has but I assume the smaller isps like adsl24 have also.

but i still feel plus net as the odd bug in there ordering system like dumping all there web orders on the wrong product 40/10,but i think that issue as been fixed.

This has now been fixed and you'd be provisioned on the correct product.

And when you place your order to migrate from another isp there is nowhere to enter your mac code along the ordering process online, don't know if any of the plus net team could answer the last question?

You can enter your MAC could wither online or give it to our support team providing one is needed.

In reply to a post by chrispurvey:

your MAC could wither online

Spill chuckers - don't you just love them?

In reply to a post by Jaggies:

In reply to a post by chrispurvey:

your MAC could wither online

Spill chuckers - don't you just love them?

At least it isn't just spiel.

In reply to a post by superspeed:

Another dumb decision made by openreach, not to allow people to change to fastpath or interleaving. Being part of DLM is not on.

Yet again, you are making sweeping assertions based on how you want the world to be, rather than listening to the many here who speak based on understanding of the technical limitations.

You started a long thread about 'fibre speeds should be fixed', and it was explained to you several times that if you wanted a fixed speed FTTC product, it would be provisioned on a huge noise margin to allow for the inevitable fluctuations in VDSL line conditions and would still likely need a "it's too hard - we give up and release you from your contract" clause. The huge noise margin means you would lose a substantial proportion of the speed the line is capable of. I covered this in more detail here.


Consumers tend to demand the highest 'up to' figure that works - which is where DLM comes in. Generally, it seems that BT Openreach's FTTC DLM works fairly well, though it is arguably a little too persistent in holding on to restrictions after line conditions improve and their necessity has passed. It is also nonsense that, at the moment, it sometimes takes an engineer visit to remove an unnecessary banding. I'm sure BT Openreach will improve these things in time as they continue to refine the FTTC service in the light of operational experience. Hopefully vectoring will be deployed as part of these refinements over the next year or so, which will help to ensure all lines perform to their full potential.

VDSL2 allows for modest levels of interleaving and impulse noise protection, which have a small effect on latency - much less than on ADSL2+ - but potentially a dramatic effect on stability and performance. As such, BT Openreach have refused to give Customer Parties 'fast path or bust' setting on FTTC - it's better to give DLM access to a full range of strategies.

If the FTTC DLM can leave a line on fast path, it does. If interleaving is required, it is set - but it is eventually removed if it is no longer necessary. It seems that the FTTC DLM initially opts for modest levels of interleaving and/or INP rather than resorting to an increased noise margin with the consequent drop in sync speed. This is in line with what most consumers will want - they would rather keep speed at the expense of a modest increase in latency and jitter. The only setting Customer Parties have on BT FTTC line is a choice of three different DLM trade-offs between speed and stability.


Twisted pairs will always be limited by the physics. If your require the low latency and jitter of fast path, guaranteed line speed (but not necessarily guaranteed throughput in the absence of an expensive service that guarantees throughput - I guess we will eventually see an Etherway over FTTP product) and a migration path to higher speeds in the future, FTTP On Demand will be available to those in FTTC served areas later this year. It will not be cheap, however.