In reply to a post by Oliver341:

BT Wholesale has a monopoly on ADSL provision at market 1 exchanges

BT Wholesale had a monopoly on market 1 exchanges at the date that the classification was made. However, in my case and many others, BTW no longer has that monopoly. TalkTalk LLU is now also available at my exchange but as the classification has not been updated I do not make the saving with PlusNet that other uses on market 2/3 exchanges do.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

And as for TT, Elstead exchange, as I am lead to believe, will not be unbundled. Since to get TTs FTTC service you have to take **their** line rental, so in my book that means I won't be able to have a FTTC service from them. If I have got my facts wrong on that then I would be obviously delighted to run with them.

That's an interesting question, and the only thing to do is ask them.

They insist on your having line rental and calls with them, but that isn't quite the same thing as insisting on an LLU line. They do WLR just like all non-LLU ISPs. I'm not sure what BT Wholesale ADSLx products they sell on those exchanges - at one time it was limited to 8Mbps but I don't know if that has changed.

The actual question is whether or not they do BT Wholesale FTTC , as the backhaul and handover capacity they have for non-LLU is reputedly dreadfully low even for ADSL2+.

Non-LLU TalkTalk has a terrible reputation, as does Sky's, and O2 and Orange did. I really do think that TT FTTC on a non-LLU exchange, even if they would supply it, would be a false economy.

A terrific answer which helps me greatly in deciding which ISP to run with once I can order FTTC. It looks as though it will be PlusNet but IDNET looks a cheaper option.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Your elaboration on your statement would be welcomed.

I think it was quite clear! I was talking solely about TT's pricing by their areas, not about their T&Cs. If you don't want to put your line with TT then you can't take a new product with them. It is now a condition that you must take a BB + landline package with them. When you joined them you were able buy BB only from them. Altho' I can't see the advantage of going with TT outside their LLU area to get BTw ADSL rather than going with one of the BTw based ISPs.

As you are already with TT BB only, perhaps they will let you upgrade to FFTC only when it becomes available at your exchange.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

I guess a lot of the errors I made in my posting is knowing what the definition really is of a Level 1 exchange. I always thought it meant that you could only choose an ISP that supplied your internet service via BTW and that LLU was unavailable. So please correct me on that perception.

That was the major determinant, but not the only one, and it relates to a point in time - in this case some time in 2010, with the list being issued in December 2010. It does not automatically get changed when LLU operators are added at an exchange.

Since then, a huge number of exchanges have been LLU'ed by one or more of Sky, TalkTalk and C & W. So LLU is available there, with LLU pricing, but for BT Wholesale ISPs they are still Market 1.

Here is the definitive Ofcom list which is still in effect. The next Ofcom consultation on this topic is under way, see this document, which contains

1.35 Stakeholders have until 20 December 2012 to respond to this Call for Inputs and provide their qualitative views on the matters set out in this paper. In addition, we will be issuing over the coming weeks information requests under Section 135 of the Act to collect the data that will underpin our analysis in the Review.

1.36 Our goal is then to publish a full consultation with our policy proposals in May 2013, with a final statement currently scheduled for March 2014.

If you read through that, you will see that part of the consultation is as to whether or not the existing Market 1,2,3 classification system is still appropriate.

I have watched, and spoken to the engineers, working on cabinet #1 and the adjacent FTTC cabinet. It seems highly likely that it serves around 200 houses. To all those properties, gas and electricity is available. Why you asked that, I've no idea.

Note the "tongue (in cheek)" preceding it, and look up "meter" in a dictionary .

21CN WBC status has now slipped to 31/10/2013
FTTC status: RFS date set : 01/09/2013
So the thought of using ADSL2 as a stepping stone to FTTC is a bit pointless now.

ADSL2 is extremely rare. WBC provides ADSL2+, as do most LLU exchanges whether or not they have WBC. There is a huge difference between ADSL2 and ADSL2+. Very occasionally it is advantageous for technical reasons to downgrade a connection from ADSL2+ to ADSL2.

However, the basic premise of both myself and the OP remains the same; we pay more for an FTTC service because we are connected to a rural exchange.

Nope. Far too simplistic a statement, as explained in my and XRaySpeX's posts.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

It looks as though it will be PlusNet but IDNET looks a cheaper option.

I find that very hard to believe. Are you sure you aren't reading something wrong somewhere?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

it is highly likely there are some where TalkTalk cannot (a) supply their LLU product at all, and/or (b) supply their 'Fibre Large' product.

I have been unable to get TT to offer me ADSL, let alone Fibre, at one of their non-LLU exchanges where FTTC is available. Such a place is OX11 9NS on Exchange BLEWBURY (I cba to find an M2). I think we have seen this before for new custs where a poster was a legacy non-LLU TT cust.

EDIT: Ah, now found an M2. TT does offer me both ADSL & FTTC at YO30 6RE on Exchange CLIFTON . However it makes no mention on the order form of the £15.32 pm surcharge for non-LLU; just on the general site 'Small print'. TT must want the business in M2&3 exchanges where they are not LLU.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 21-Jul-13 20:12:57)

GEES...guys,
thanks for all your posts,
BUT you have totally muddied the water !

This is a Plus Net part of the forum.
I am a Plus Net customer ( In my case only sensible option on Market 1 - DO NOT DISCUSS)

I want to know FROM PLUS NET, (that's why it's addressed to THEM !)

what is likely to happen to PLUS Net customers if and when
we become
MARKET A !

Thanks,
regards,
Martin

It seems you are aware of something I, for one, am not. Re

Hi,
hopefully you have had time to review the new Ofcom proposals.

Unfortunately all the gobledygok and acronyms went way over my head !

Please could you give us a link to what you are referring to .

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 22-Jul-13 01:46:56)

If you want to get a response solely from PN, you need to do so on their ticket system.

If, as you did here, you raise it as a discussion in the public domain, then you must expect anyone to chip in with their pennyworth, especially as you did not quote your sources and there's no knowing whether PN will know them either. Neither are you able to dictate who responds nor about what.

I guess OP means this recent doc: Review of the wholesale broadband access markets.

I orginally took OP's 'Market A' as a typo for 'Market 1' .